'21 CA QB Tyler Buchner (ND FB -> Bama FB -> ND LAX???)

[IHateMarkMay]

Bama fans are gonna go nuts when Rees/Buchner lead the offense to 13 points against Texas

At least we'll get the "TEXAS IS BACK" headlines out of the way early.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Well, for starters, how about his first two plays as a true freshman? Runs the ball twice for 40 yards to get a moribund ND offense off of its own goal line. You don't think Irish fans found that exhilarating? Besides, Rasputin wasn't relating Buchner to the rest of college football. It was in relation to other recent ND QBs. In that comparison, his highs were definitely exhilarating because you could see the potential.

Shit, did you all forget about DeShone Kizer? That wasn't too long ago. Kizer was a gamer who could run and throw. He was a tough kid, and ripped off a few 70+ yard runs.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Maybe I’m ignorant here, but what are some of Buchner’s “exhilarating highs?”

Unless I missed something, when I really watched him, and just considering nothing else but his play on the field, I didn’t see “it” at all. He looked timid, lacked pocket presence, stared down receivers. He had a decent arm, but I wasn’t blown away by any means with his arm strength and accuracy. He has some elusiveness, but I can rattle off many, many other starting QBs that are more elusive, are faster, and have more breakaway speed. Hell, Alabama’s got on on their current roster playing QB.

I just don’t see it.

Conversely, when I watched Milroe; he was a one-trick pony. Dangerous, electric runner who can make plays w/ his feet...but that’s it. Maybe he gets his passing to the point where he’s not predictable but the fact they brought in Buchner despite Milroe & 5-star Simpson has to be a red flag on the QB room

 

[ulukinatme]

I did watch that game, in its entirety, over the holiday weekend. Stop making him out to be Eric Crouch. He ran for 60 yards. 60. Some QBs get that on one or two plays...He's shifty and a little quick, but is he a legitimate running threat? I don't see it. I also don't believe he can endure a few games (much less season) carrying the ball 10+ times? The good news is that it's August 2nd...we'll find out very shortly.

Eric Crouch is actually a fairly close comparison. Crouch ran for 5.3 YPC, Buchner 5.7. Both QBs threw a bunch of picks, about as many as they did TDs. Both QBs scored TDs on the ground roughly every 11 carries. Crouch's completion percentage was 51%, Buchner's is 54%. Crouch's Y/A was 7.4, Buchner was 8.0. Biggest difference is Buchner hasn't been able to stay healthy, so he's played a lot less snaps.

 

[Blazers46]

If Kelly and Rees start developing QBs outside of ND I have nobody to blame for past QB development at Notre Dame besides Hacienda…

 

[Old Man Mike]

A. Tommy's really good. Saban has raved.
B. Buchner's really twitch quick. He can run --- all should stop doubting that.
C. Buchner's crazy errors will lose games unless something strangely odd changes.
D. Saban and Rees will not tolerate crazy plays for long, and the other guy will probably start anyway.

I believe all four of those, ... and frankly give a damm about none of them.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Like Rasputin said, a lot of the appeal was his potential. He came up big in the 2021 Va. Tech game, for instance. Some of his first real action (Coan must've been hurt?) And he has a bigger arm than we're used to. The throw at 37 seconds of this video may not blow you away but it was the sort of thing we've seen far too little of at Notre Dame in recent years.


(of course you will also see two brutal picks in the span of five game minutes that gave Va. Tech the lead after we'd already come from behind once. But that's the Full Buchner Experience).

No question Buchner has a high ceiling. Whether he reaches it, who knows.

Vtech wasn't prepared for him to replace coan in the first half...... they were prepared for him in the second half and buchner did absolutely terrible.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Eric Crouch is actually a fairly close comparison. Crouch ran for 5.3 YPC, Buchner 5.7. Both QBs threw a bunch of picks, about as many as they did TDs. Both QBs scored TDs on the ground roughly every 11 carries. Crouch's completion percentage was 51%, Buchner's is 54%. Crouch's Y/A was 7.4, Buchner was 8.0. Biggest difference is Buchner hasn't been able to stay healthy, so he's played a lot less snaps.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Buchners poor pocket presence and setting the oline blocking protections doesn't get mentioned. There's a reason our pass pro was significantly better with pyne than buchner. Some made the excuse of the oline not being gelled early in the season. Maybe that's true, but I think some of it was buchner not reading the defense and setting the protections properly. Another proof point is same oline to end the season with pyne as vs South carolina, vs south carolina the oline looked like they had no clue who they were blocking again. First play of spring game, buchner makes major mistake shifting oline blocking and no one was there to pick up the DE (Botelho).

Most times "running" the offense gets overlooked because it's not the flashy stuff like protections, snap counts, etc etc. I think buchner struggles here and part of why he always has deer in the headlights look.

 

[NDohio]

Dammit people! Stop ruining my excitement for this season by talking about former players...

 

[notredomer23]

Dammit people! Stop ruining my excitement for this season by talking about former players...

No practice reports until August 8th I believe... Get used to it.

 

[IrishLion]

My hot take continues to be that Tyler Buchner will end up being a very good college QB... it he stays healthy long enough to get more reps, and if Saban and Rees are patient enough to let him develop. (Then you have a different debate, as to whether or not 1.5 years of a solid Buchner is worth continued investment, which idk I'm not ready for that now that he's a Bama guy).

I could make the argument that his pick-6 problem is as much related to playcalling as it is Tyler making poor decisions... if you've got a good athlete that is at his best on the move and having the freedom to freestyle a little bit, maybe don't try to have him throw 3-step timing routes against aggressive secondaries that love to run man coverage? Just spitballing here, but hey have fun with Tommy's extremely frustrating hard-headness, Bama nation.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I did watch that game, in its entirety, over the holiday weekend. Stop making him out to be Eric Crouch. He ran for 60 yards. 60. Some QBs get that on one or two plays...He's shifty and a little quick, but is he a legitimate running threat? I don't see it. I also don't believe he can endure a few games (much less season) carrying the ball 10+ times? The good news is that it's August 2nd...we'll find out very shortly.

Ian Book was "shifty and a little quick." Buchner is certainly a better running threat. You're just doubling down a shit take. He would be a questionable optoin to start for Bama, no one's disagreeing there. His athleticism is well above average.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Shit, did you all forget about DeShone Kizer? That wasn't too long ago. Kizer was a gamer who could run and throw. He was a tough kid, and ripped off a few 70+ yard runs.

DUDE. Kizer was not faster than Buchner. Calling him "shifty" would be more appropriate than Buchner.

He had one long TD run. Against Temple. Not to take away anything from what was a very talented Temple team in '15, but he wasn't exactly running away from 4 and 5 star athletes.

 

[forkbeard3777]

He’s an LSU fan with Notre Dame as his second. Judgement is not his strength.

Apparently spelling isn’t yours. 😉

 

[FWIrish4]

I did watch that game, in its entirety, over the holiday weekend. Stop making him out to be Eric Crouch. He ran for 60 yards. 60. Some QBs get that on one or two plays...He's shifty and a little quick, but is he a legitimate running threat? I don't see it. I also don't believe he can endure a few games (much less season) carrying the ball 10+ times? The good news is that it's August 2nd...we'll find out very shortly.

This is just an insane take. His freshman year his package was almost exclusively run zone read, QB counters and draws. The defense knew it was coming and he still got chunk runs.

IE never fully agrees on anything and I’m confident all of IE outside of you would say he’s clearly a plus running threat.

 

[forkbeard3777]

DUDE. Kizer was not faster than Buchner. Calling him "shifty" would be more appropriate than Buchner.

He had one long TD run. Against Temple. Not to take away anything from what was a very talented Temple team in '15, but he wasn't exactly running away from 4 and 5 star athletes.

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall him having more than 1 long run.

And I don’t really care about the 40 comparison. It’s largely a non factor in the actual game.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Priorities. It’s Go Irish not Geaux Tigers. LSU fans have no right to brag about spelling.

Touché.

 

[stlnd01]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I recall him having more than 1 long run.

And I don’t really care about the 40 comparison. It’s largely a non factor in the actual game.

Buchner is a better runner than Kizer and it’s not close. Kizer had a bigger arm, though Buchner might have had the biggest we’ve seen at ND since Kizer.
Buchner’s trouble is his head (and to some degree his joints). If he can figure that out he can be very very good.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

And I don’t really care about the 40 comparison. It’s largely a non factor in the actual game.

Just another shit take lmao. Good day, man.

 

[notredomer23]

Buchner is a better runner than Kizer and it’s not close. Kizer had a bigger arm, though Buchner might have had the biggest we’ve seen at ND since Kizer.
Buchner’s trouble is his head (and to some degree his joints). If he can figure that out he can be very very good.

This is correct, but personally, I am choosing the Kizer style of runner at QB. It's pretty unbelievable the step back he took from 2015 to 2016 because I was convinced he was going to have a Cam Newton like year. He was unstoppable in short yardage in 2015.

 

[KPENN]

This is correct, but personally, I am choosing the Kizer style of runner at QB. It's pretty unbelievable the step back he took from 2015 to 2016 because I was convinced he was going to have a Cam Newton like year. He was unstoppable in short yardage in 2015.

The whole 2016 season was/is just fucking gross. Against a weak schedule too.

 

[forkbeard3777]

Just another shit take lmao. Good day, man.

How does a 40-yard dash correlate to football? Seriously? Unless you’re on kickoff team, a gunner on punt team, a WR running a fly route/CB covering him, very rarely in gameplay are you running a 40 yard sprint on one play. A shuttle run is arguably more pertinent to football. It’s a game of short bursts.

And for the record, I never said Kizer was faster than Buchner, just that he was a solid, elusive runner as well.

ETA: In all seriousness, I do appreciate your recommendations on the First Time Visitor/Gameday thread.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

How does a 40-yard dash correlate to football? Seriously? Unless you’re on kickoff team, a gunner on punt team, a WR running a fly route/CB covering him, very rarely in gameplay are you running a 40 yard sprint on one play. A shuttle run is arguably more pertinent to football. It’s a game of short bursts.

And for the record, I never said Kizer was faster than Buchner, just that he was a solid, elusive runner as well.

ETA: In all seriousness, I do appreciate your recommendations on the First Time Visitor/Gameday thread.

When did I say that a 40 yard dash is the end all, be all in football talent? However, it's a measure of someone's top-end speed, as well as their acceleration to get there. a .23 differential in a 40 time is quite significant.

No problem in the Gameday thread, happy to help.

 

[T-Boone]

I was aways just a bit disappointed in the Buchner running game. Wimbush was certainly better and because it was part of a better overall package Book seemed better his last season of two.

 

[T-Boone]

Buchner will probably make a very good coach. That could explain his move to Bama. Get a couple seasons under the big guy.

 

[NDWarrior]

I won't get into my base reasons for why Buchner will not pan out, but the long and short if it is, although he's smart, pretty fast for a QB, and can throw the ball, he unfortunately does not have pocket presence - as in a calm mind to go through his progressions, keeping his eyes down the field, even as DL are running for him - and get the ball out of his hands in a timely and accurate manner. He collapses like a house of cards with pressure. Alabama's surrounding talent can help him overcome this to some extent but as they start going through the thick of their SEC schedule and toughest contests, Buchner will not survive. He won't play in the NFL, but since he's smart, can probably retain information well, and is nice as pie, I agree, he'll make a great coach. That's why Bryce Young was Bryce Young The Heisman winner. He has that presence and focus, just like another undersized QB without the measurables who had success for The Seahawks in The NFL.

 

[WilliamWallace]

I won't get into my base reasons for why Buchner will not pan out, but the long and short if it is, although he's smart, pretty fast for a QB, and can throw the ball, he unfortunately does not have pocket presence - as in a calm mind to go through his progressions, keeping his eyes down the field, even as DL are running for him - and get the ball out of his hands in a timely and accurate manner. He collapses like a house of cards with pressure. Alabama's surrounding talent can help him overcome this to some extent but as they start going through the thick of their SEC schedule and toughest contests, Buchner will not survive. He won't play in the NFL, but since he's smart, can probably retain information well, and is nice as pie, I agree, he'll make a great coach. That's why Bryce Young was Bryce Young The Heisman winner. He has that presence and focus, just like another undersized QB without the measurables who had success for The Seahawks in The NFL.

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you’ve said. But let’s not forget Saban is still there. If he doesn’t like what he sees Buchner will not be the starter. Unfortunately ND’s lack of ability to properly develop sound QB’s is on the staff. If Buchner comes out shining it’ll be because he has proper coaching. I think in the past we’ve counted on a mobile QB’s escapability and that was a crutch for too long. By the sounds of it, we have a good QB coach now so things should improve moving forward. Example: Coan had good pocket presence but could not get out of danger. We did not develop him.

 

[Wild Bill]

I won't get into my base reasons for why Buchner will not pan out, but the long and short if it is, although he's smart, pretty fast for a QB, and can throw the ball, he unfortunately does not have pocket presence - as in a calm mind to go through his progressions, keeping his eyes down the field, even as DL are running for him - and get the ball out of his hands in a timely and accurate manner. He collapses like a house of cards with pressure. Alabama's surrounding talent can help him overcome this to some extent but as they start going through the thick of their SEC schedule and toughest contests, Buchner will not survive. He won't play in the NFL, but since he's smart, can probably retain information well, and is nice as pie, I agree, he'll make a great coach. That's why Bryce Young was Bryce Young The Heisman winner. He has that presence and focus, just like another undersized QB without the measurables who had success for The Seahawks in The NFL.

All true but stetson Bennett just won two titles at Georgia. It's amazing what an average QB can accomplish when they're surrounded by playmakers and great big pigs that can protect.

 

[NorthDakota]

All true but stetson Bennett just won two titles at Georgia. It's amazing what an average QB can accomplish when they're surrounded by playmakers and great big pigs that can protect.

Also tough to rag on Tyler for lack of pocket presence. Dude hasnt played a ton. Some of that stuff comes with time