'20 CT QB Drew Pyne (ND->ASU->MO->BGSU Transfer)

[Domina Nostra]

I agree with NDAccountant.

Pyne is playing great, and that great to see, but there is exactly 0.00% tension between (1) Drew Pyne is a good leader, tough, likeable, and has some talent and (2) Drew Pyne is not a good enough QB to win a NC--which is the standard at ND.

We need a better QB, just like we need better players at a lot of positions (not TE!). We needed a better QB when we had the winningest QB in school history--Ian Book. I've rooted for Pyne every snap he's taken (like I did for Book) and he's obviously a great kid, but c'mon. It's one thing to love the kid for being ND's QB and giving it his all (which is not negligible), its another thing to think he is the answer at the most crucial position.

And I do not think Buchner is the answer. We need a QB that can find receivers and make all the throws. In that regarding, Pyne seems closer to the mark then Buchner. Who is a QB that was not naturally a great passer but learned to be one?

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Tommy knows how to call this kind of offense. He wants an accurate QB that is going to convert the opportunities that are there. I keep thinking back to that walk in TD that Diggs had against UNC on the throw back and how easy/effortless that was... Buchner honestly might've thrown that ball 5 feet over his head, etc.

Pyne might not have the arm talent to beat a "Georgia" but he's more than good enough to beat 80%+ of CFB teams and he allows the players around him to make plays.

I am curious how they envisioned the offense to operate with Buchner. He had 11 carries against OSU and 13 carries against Marshall (three of those against OSU were sacks, I couldn't distill the number of those carries against Marshall which were sacks). Was it the plan for this offense to feature that many QB carries? If so that was a mistake from the start.

We'll probably never know what the Buchner offense would have looked like with a good OL.

My guess is ND built something with a laser focus on OSU and after that game were scrambling to figure out how to build on that. Perhaps getting Pyne under center was a needed change to get the post-OSU offense working.

 

[Blazers46]

I am curious how they envisioned the offense to operate with Buchner. He had 11 carries against OSU and 13 carries against Marshall (three of those against OSU were sacks, I couldn't distill the number of those carries against Marshall which were sacks). Was it the plan for this offense to feature that many QB carries? If so that was a mistake from the start.

We'll probably never know what the Buchner offense would have looked like with a good OL.

My guess is ND built something with a laser focus on OSU and after that game were scrambling to figure out how to build on that. Perhaps getting Pyne under center was a needed change to get the post-OSU offense working.

Buchner is a runner for sure, but it is baffling how bad he was at throwing the football. It's also somewhat baffling how bad Buchner was at running the football since that seems to be the only tool in his bag. As bad as someone like Denard Robinson was as a passer was totally outweighed by running and playmaking ability. I am not sure how Buchner won the job unless he is the opposite of "gamer" and just a "practicer". Its hard to see a scenario where Buchner is on this team if Pyne does not totally implode. The saving grace Buchner has had is "be patient, he has not played a lot of football" but when he suits up in 2023 there is not much football he has played since 2019.

 

[IRISHMAN]

i wonder if pyne was named the starting QB back in august would ND be 4-1 right now.

 

[CanadalovesND]

i wonder if pyne was named the starting QB back in august would ND be 4-1 right now.

Probably not. It's an interesting thought, but the OL play was brutal the first two games. Simple stunts and blitzes against OSU weren't picked up. OSU's front seven would have would have feasted on Pyne. Marshall, who knows.... but the whole team played poorly that game. If we have this offense now, with the OL and running game we do now, maybe it would have been possible to beat OSU.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

i wonder if pyne was named the starting QB back in august would ND be 4-1 right now.

Maybe
But, the easier question is, if the line played like this against Marshall with Buchner, would they win?
That answer is easy.
Oline was the biggest issue.

 

[GATTACA!]

That’ll do

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Drew Pyne is playing above what I thought he would but the offense will live and die with the OL. We need those 5 guys to continue growing together because we have some good defenses on the schedule.

Give Pyne time to find the open receiver and he's proving to be capable. We don't know how he'll perform if his pockets start lasting 2 seconds instead 5 seconds. I have faith he'll adjust.

 

[ulukinatme]

i wonder if pyne was named the starting QB back in august would ND be 4-1 right now.

If Patterson was healthy and the OL was this efficient in August I think we could be 5-0. I wouldn't want any part of the playoff though, we're still a year or two away depending on when Carr signs and develops. I think we can definitely win a January 1st game this year though depending on who the opponent is.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I believe that by the end of the season, the Notre Dame vs Marshall game will be THE biggest outlier mystery in the entire 2022 NCAA season. It's just @#$%^$#@ weird regardless of all the attempts at explanation. Marshall looked like a VERY good football team --- played us better than OSU did. Now they practically can't beat anybody. The universe went WHACK that day. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Buchner, Pyne, Montana, or Peyton Manning that day in my opinion. (yeh, Oline, Buchner, Dline, yadda yadda yadda ... it's still unexplainable.)

 

[irishff1014]

I believe that by the end of the season, the Notre Dame vs Marshall game will be THE biggest outlier mystery in the entire 2022 NCAA season. It's just @#$%^$#@ weird regardless of all the attempts at explanation. Marshall looked like a VERY good football team --- played us better than OSU did. Now they practically can't beat anybody. The universe went WHACK that day. It wouldn't have mattered if it was Buchner, Pyne, Montana, or Peyton Manning that day in my opinion. (yeh, Oline, Buchner, Dline, yadda yadda yadda ... it's still unexplainable.)

I disagree. If we had the game plan close to the last 3 game we would have won. We had terrible coaching and execution in the Marshal game.

 

[Irish4life]

 

[NDRock]

Yep, Pyne is playing great. Really happy for him. The whole Buchner/Pyne thing is just a redux of Wimbush/Book. In both cases I hoped the guy with the higher ceiling would pan but neither did. Just keep winning games and hopefully we can convince some elite guys to jump on board to finally get us to that next level.

 

[NorthDakota]

Drew Pyne is playing above what I thought he would but the offense will live and die with the OL. We need those 5 guys to continue growing together because we have some good defenses on the schedule.

Give Pyne time to find the open receiver and he's proving to be capable. We don't know how he'll perform if his pockets start lasting 2 seconds instead 5 seconds. I have faith he'll adjust.

I dont have faith. Hes doing a nice job because the line is playing much better. He would have gotten mauled in Columbus

 

[Irish4life]

Yep, Pyne is playing great. Really happy for him. The whole Buchner/Pyne thing is just a redux of Wimbush/Book. In both cases I hoped the guy with the higher ceiling would pan but neither did. Just keep winning games and hopefully we can convince some elite guys to jump on board to finally get us to that next level.

I still think it's too early to write off Buchner at this point, small sample size for him and Pyne and all...but it's definitely Pyne's job to lose.

 

[stlnd01]

I dont have faith. Hes doing a nice job because the line is playing much better. He would have gotten mauled in Columbus

I would very much like to see how Buchner would be performing with the line and running game playing as well as it is now. Maybe Pyne is just that much better at making the right reads. But Buchner won the starting job for a reason, and has better physical tools.

 

[BilboBaggins]

This is so nice to see. Aggressive defenses have totally stymied this offense this year. UNC played a lot of off coverage (for inexplicable reasons) and people speculated we'd test real growth against BYU. Good to see.

 

[indianamouse]

Yep, Pyne is playing great. Really happy for him. The whole Buchner/Pyne thing is just a redux of Wimbush/Book. In both cases I hoped the guy with the higher ceiling would pan but neither did. Just keep winning games and hopefully we can convince some elite guys to jump on board to finally get us to that next level.

Buchner had 2 games with the oline leaking like a sieve. I think Buchner has way more upside. Pyne is a great #2 though.

 

[KPENN]

 

[NDohio]

If Patterson was healthy and the OL was this efficient in August I think we could be 5-0. I wouldn't want any part of the playoff though, we're still a year or two away depending on when Carr signs and develops. I think we can definitely win a January 1st game this year though depending on who the opponent is.

But if we are 5-0 that means we have beaten a playoff level team. Why wouldn't you want a part of the playoffs in this scenario?

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I disagree. If we had the game plan close to the last 3 game we would have won. We had terrible coaching and execution in the Marshal game.

Why was the coaching terrible? Because of poor execution. We can blame the coaches and you certainly have a lot and we get it, you are really frustrated with how the staff prepared the team but for whatever reason, the staff is now coaching the players better and the team is executing.

The strangest thing to me was watching Buchner overthrow or fail to throw a number of very easy passes. Think about the Lenzy go route at the end of the first half of the Marshall game. Perfectly designed and drawn up, Lenzy is wide open for a walk in touchdown that would've completely altered the momentum of the game and Buchner just airmails it.

You can blame the staff because it's what you're best at but at some point, we have to look at all the missed opportunities players had to help change the direction of that game.

I hope you've at least enjoyed Ws we've started stringing together.

 

[SoIll]

Dude loves ND. Was a dream to be the quarterback at ND and is absolutely doing it to a high level. How fucking cool is that? I was wrong. He certainly has a ceiling, but he is balling.

 

[KPENN]

Why was the coaching terrible? Because of poor execution. We can blame the coaches and you certainly have a lot and we get it, you are really frustrated with how the staff prepared the team but for whatever reason, the staff is now coaching the players better and the team is executing.

The strangest thing to me was watching Buchner overthrow or fail to throw a number of very easy passes. Think about the Lenzy go route at the end of the first half of the Marshall game. Perfectly designed and drawn up, Lenzy is wide open for a walk in touchdown that would've completely altered the momentum of the game and Buchner just airmails it.

You can blame the staff because it's what you're best at but at some point, we have to look at all the missed opportunities players had to help change the direction of that game.

I hope you've at least enjoyed Ws we've started stringing together.

That collapse on the RPO in the 4th on 3rd and 10 was just mind blowing.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Why was the coaching terrible? Because of poor execution. We can blame the coaches and you certainly have a lot and we get it, you are really frustrated with how the staff prepared the team but for whatever reason, the staff is now coaching the players better and the team is executing.

The strangest thing to me was watching Buchner overthrow or fail to throw a number of very easy passes. Think about the Lenzy go route at the end of the first half of the Marshall game. Perfectly designed and drawn up, Lenzy is wide open for a walk in touchdown that would've completely altered the momentum of the game and Buchner just airmails it.

You can blame the staff because it's what you're best at but at some point, we have to look at all the missed opportunities players had to help change the direction of that game.

I hope you've at least enjoyed Ws we've started stringing together.

I think Buchner was probably better in practice because he wasn't peeling himself off the turf every two minutes. Taking that many hits is going to affect his throwing, even when it doesn't lead to injury.

I think that's why Denard Robinson started every season as a Heisman candidate and faded down the stretch.

I just don't think you can expose your quarterback to that many hits and expect him to be an efficient passer. I think it made sense in the context of the OSU game. But was the plan to keep that going each week? I'm not sure the coaching staff took a long enough view of their offensive design.

But the turnaround in offensive performance is pretty remarkable (thus far) so I'm not going to complain too much. I just hope that maybe they learned a lesson about an offensive system to relies too much on the Qb's legs.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I think Buchner was probably better in practice because he wasn't peeling himself off the turf every two minutes. Taking that many hits is going to affect his throwing, even when it doesn't lead to injury.

I think that's why Denard Robinson started every season as a Heisman candidate and faded down the stretch.

I just don't think you can expose your quarterback to that many hits and expect him to be an efficient passer. I think it made sense in the context of the OSU game. But was the plan to keep that going each week? I'm not sure the coaching staff took a long enough view of their offensive design.

But the turnaround in offensive performance is pretty remarkable (thus far) so I'm not going to complain too much. I just hope that maybe they learned a lesson about an offensive system to relies too much on the Qb's legs.

Well, if we're posting what we think I'll share as well.

I think Tommy Rees convinced himself that Buchner would be able to execute as a 65% passer and that he'd hit the deep shots and the gimmes and they could program in some RPO/read option/running plays to help offset the 5-8% additional completion percentage they need to be an efficient offense.

When the line stuttered out of the gate and Buchner showed an inability to read defenses because his panic level was too high, they had to quickly alter the plan to include more running plays and this hamstrung everything, especially when the OL wasn't coalescing.

Now, Pyne is doing the exact opposite. He might run twice a game but he's good at taking what the defense gives him, completing at a high percentage the OL is doing their f^&*%ing job.

I'm not convinced Buchner can be a starting QB at ND. His body of work so far leaves a lot to be desired. I hope Pyne/Angeli/'23 QB can all push each other to take the starting role because that's allowing the offense to grow.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Well, if we're posting what we think I'll share as well.

I think Tommy Rees convinced himself that Buchner would be able to execute as a 65% passer and that he'd hit the deep shots and the gimmes and they could program in some RPO/read option/running plays to help offset the 5-8% additional completion percentage they need to be an efficient offense.

When the line stuttered out of the gate and Buchner showed an inability to read defenses because his panic level was too high, they had to quickly alter the plan to include more running plays and this hamstrung everything, especially when the OL wasn't coalescing.

Now, Pyne is doing the exact opposite. He might run twice a game but he's good at taking what the defense gives him, completing at a high percentage the OL is doing their f^&*%ing job.

I'm not convinced Buchner can be a starting QB at ND. His body of work so far leaves a lot to be desired. I hope Pyne/Angeli/'23 QB can all push each other to take the starting role because that's allowing the offense to grow.

I pretty much agree with this. But I do think you need to sprinkle in a bit of "we aren't playing for 10-2, we are playing for NCs."

I think that starting Pyne would have been waiving the flag that they were not trying to build to an NC, and would have suggested that they were just playing it safe.

 

[ulukinatme]

But if we are 5-0 that means we have beaten a playoff level team. Why wouldn't you want a part of the playoffs in this scenario?

We beat Clemson in 2020 too and ran the table in the regular season, but we still had a lot of holes and you saw what happened against Alabama. I would rather get the January 1st monkey off our backs and build for a strong '23 or '24 once a few of these classes come in and we've built a better WR group. Maybe get Carr a few snaps too.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I pretty much agree with this. But I do think you need to sprinkle in a bit of "we aren't playing for 10-2, we are playing for NCs."

I think that starting Pyne would have been waiving the flag that they were not trying to build to an NC, and would have suggested that they were just playing it safe.

I don't think it would be waving the flag to start Pyne if he was the better option. A player with a potentially higher ceiling but lower floor who isn't able to perform consistently at their higher ceiling is going to result in a much worse season often.

If I told you Buchner could start all season with a 5-7:12-0 potential outcome and Pyne could start with an 8-4:11-1 potential outcome, who would you choose?

That's not exactly what we're dealing with but Buchner seems really boom or bust to me. Pyne is showing his ability to function really well when kept clean. We don't know how he'll handle more consistent harassment until we see it but if I'm a coach and I'm trying to build a program to the next level, I think I'd run with Pyne for the year.

Next year there are even more variables. We really need all the QBs to get a ton of reps in spring/summer.

 

[ulukinatme]

No idea what will happen with the QB room next year, but if Buchner comes back 100% I think you can use him at the very least like we did last year. Use him to spark the run game, if we even need to do that if the OL manages to reload and the backs all return. Keep Pyne in for play action passes and screens, Buchner to play the Tebow role. I would bet his legs would help us in the redzone.

 

[Dale]

ND starts 2023 with:

Navy, TSU, BYE, & Central Michigan

before going:

OSU, BYE, USC, Wake & Clemson.

You have the weeks to get Buchner and/or a transfer up to speed.

Utilizing Week 0 to get an additional bye and a FCS? Someone figured out scheduling for 2023!