Russia Invades Ukraine

[NDdomer2]

Awww shucks…. The butthurt is strong across the mod staff, I see. It’s a stressful time in the world, we understand.

I'm actually only like a partial moderator in that I can create vbooks 😁

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the Civil War. FDR put Japanese Americans in camps. He also put a significant number of Italian and German Americans in camps/detention centers.

Turns out leaders take warfare very serious.

yeah, the internment camps were pretty horrifying decision. History should judge FDR much more harshly, IMO, but that’s another topic…

 

[Henges24]

Who let Koon back in?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I can't disagree with much you've said on this point about the risk of Putin going nuclear, but how do we avoid sending the message that all you have to do is rattle that particular sword and we'll let you do whatever you want?

You do what we've been doing: sanctions and diplomacy. It's hard to fully appreciate the significance of the speed and severity with which the vast majority of the world's governments moved to sanction Russia. They're far worse than anything we hit Nazi Germany with. Russia cannot endure this for long, so we may get what we're hoping for without risking direct conflict.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskeyjack just cherishes peace with all his heart. He doesn't care how many men, women, and children need to be killed to get it.

Check my avatar. I may have emotional problems like Smokey, but pacifism is not one of them. But I do have a healthy respect for ICBMs. Didn't expect that to be a controversial opinion, but here we are.

 

[notredomer23]

 

[Whiskeyjack]

 

[zelezo vlk]

Love to get downvoted because I don't think it's worth risking the end of the world in order to punch Putin in the face.

I bet you rooted for Ivan Drago in Rocky IV

 

[NorthDakota]

Check my avatar. I may have emotional problems like Smokey, but pacifism is not one of them. But I do have a healthy respect for ICBMs. Didn't expect that to be a controversial opinion, but here we are.

My old man is a former nuke missile officer. As he likes to say, "1 missile...ten warheads...30 minutes or the next one is free."

It sucks Ukraine is getting sodomized right now. But they aren't worth joining a shitty version of the Fallout franchise universe.

 

[drayer54]

Totally not worth intervening, amirite?

Imagine trying to control a reactor while your equipment is being shelled. This is absolutely insane and yet another reason for NATO to take action. It looks like it happened outside of the actual plant and in a support building. But still insane.

You do what we've been doing: sanctions and diplomacy. It's hard to fully appreciate the significance of the speed and severity with which the vast majority of the world's governments moved to sanction Russia. They're far worse than anything we hit Nazi Germany with. Russia cannot endure this for long, so we may get what we're hoping for without risking direct conflict.

we may. Kyiv will look like Grozny, but you know...

 

[HouseofPain]

Comparing Putin to Hitler is offensive to millions of dead folks killed by virtue of their race/religion/ethnicity.

This is sorta up there with people who compare politicians to Voldemort or something. Read a book my guy.

Dude sucks. Thats not very disputable. But he ain't in the same vein as Hitler. A select few in modern history would fall into that camp.

And from the posts regarding a nuclear facility, does anyone have confirmation that it is indeed happening? One of the few things we've learned the past week or two is the Ukrainian government and media are more than happy to spread information that is basically propaganda.

Yes I have confirmation. It is happening in my wifes native city. She just hung up with one of her best friends since childhood who is in her apartment in what is left of the city. That is very real.

Slava Ukraini! Ваша жертва не будет напрасной!

 

[NorthDakota]

Yes I have confirmation. It is happening in my wifes native city. She just hung up with one of her best friends since childhood who is in her apartment in what is left of the city. That is very real.

I'm not calling your wife's friend a liar...but does she understand nuclear power plants? What if i said my cousin's nephew said it was fine?

It could very well be true, among many things. I fully believe Russians are perhaps the last country from Europe I would want to be occupied by. But it seems very likely that Ukraine is going to ramp up their propaganda campaign to try and entice a stronger western response as defeat draws nearer.

 

[drayer54]

I spent 15+ years working on them, licensed by the NRC, degreed, etc. The plant looks fine. If you look at the camera footage coming out, it appears to be a support building on fire. What we don't know is do the plants have offsite power, functioning diesels, fuel for the diesels, etc. This CAN get messy quick. A few fellow nuke types have been staring this down on google earth with the footage. Makes sense that they haven't hit the reactor buildings or containments.

 

[NorthDakota]

Ваша жертва не будет напрасной!

Why did you post in Russian that their sacrifice won't be in vain?

 

[Pointman02]

Stalin is probably a much more accurate historical analog for Putin than Hitler. Stalin was plenty evil, but he probably would have stuck to the terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to split Poland with Hitler’s Germany. Hitler was just using that to buy time until he was ready to attack Russia. I don’t see much indication that Putin is interested in fighting NATO (fingers crossed), but he seeks to expand and protect Russian control and influence as far as he can without starting all out war with NATO. Like Stalin, Putin has few moral limits to how he works towards that goal.

 

[CoachB]

It is somewhat difficult to sift through all the political talk of the war to find news of the actual war on this thread. I think the updates given by you all are awesome, just so much extra stuff....maybe create a new thread, like The Politics behind the War...or something like that.

 

[NorthDakota]

The comparison is not offensive when viewed through the lens of preemptive measure: acknowledging and addressing dangerous outcomes that can be recognized in the patterns set forth by history. The suffering and loss experienced at Hitler’s command is important to recall particularly when blatant war crimes are being committed by a despot ruling a nation with nuclear capacity.

Hitler’s heinous actions in Europe have reverberated throughout the 20th century and into our epoch precisely because the consequences of delay have both literally and symbolically embodied unprecedented atrocities. You are well aware through your studies that Hitler wasn’t Hitler until his infamy was a matter far past neglect.

Hindsight is the advantage of reading books. The disadvantage occurs when the distress signal isn’t read between the lines: the need to take seriously the repetition of occurrences that the subtext warns should never surprise anyone. As the book is being written on Ukraine as we speak, pure destruction has become the demonstrable approach of the guy who “ain’t Hitler”. His attack is that of a small, seething maniac reacting to universal condemnation and initial failure who wants the international community to fear him and witness his might. So while the comparison may be lacking given the full scope of Hitler’s destruction and approach, it’s best to take real time evidence as accountable proof now so that future generations don’t write about how we helped make the match complete.

Tl;Dr i go to school with Jewish kids every day. Don't put Putin's name in the same chapter of a book as Hitler.

One of them was a genocidal maniac. The other is trying to restore some sphere of the Russian Empire through brute force.

Again, wishing the Ukrainians well. But its objectively stupid and probably offensive to speak about someone like Adolf Hitler in the same breath as Vladimir Putin.

 

[Bishop2b5]

On a lighter note, it was reported today on social media that Pornhub had blocked service to Russia. As amusing and devastating of a reprisal as that might be, unfortunately it's not true. A friend did ask me how long before the invasion of Ukraine started affecting MetArt's supply of models. I'll just leave that one alone.

 

[NorthDakota]

So we're watching the news and my wife thinks she spots her cousin protesting the Russian troops at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, while her family is hoping to her from her aunt who lives in Melitopol. You appear a little out of your element Donny. Na huya menya bez huya esli s huyem do huya

Protesting Russian troops has literally nothing to do with a nuclear power plant being on the verge of meltdown.

If you have something real to show, by all means....go for it. I have no dog in the fight. But if your evidence is "a Ukrainian woman called/texted my wife" forgive me for being skeptical.

Btw...my name is John.

 

[GATTACA!]

A friend did ask me how long before the invasion of Ukraine started affecting MetArt's supply of models. I'll just leave that one alone.

If that isn't a justification for US boots on the ground idk what is.

 

[NDFAN420]

Protesting Russian troops has literally nothing to do with a nuclear power plant being on the verge of meltdown.

If you have something real to show, by all means....go for it. I have no dog in the fight. But if your evidence is "a Ukrainian woman called/texted my wife" forgive me for being skeptical.

Btw...my name is John.

No, you're Donny from here on out and I have more experience and evidence in dealing with the Russians than you could ever imagine.

 

[Wild Bill]

No, you're Donny from here on out and I have more experience and evidence in dealing with the Russians than you could ever imagine.

Mail order brides?

 

[NDFAN420]

Mail order brides?

Nah, I just slip it in your mommy's night deposit box whenever I feel like slumming it.

 

[Irish#1]

I guess Russia doesn't like their citizens knowing the truth.​

From NBC​

Russia blocks foreign media outlets including BBC, Voice of America

Mithil Aggarwal
34m ago / 6:16 AM EST
Russia has blocked a series of foreign media outlets, the Russian state-owned news agency RIA Novosti reported on Friday.

Broadcasters including BBC, Deutsche Welle, and Voice of America have been taken off air, while Russia's state communications regulator, Roskomnadzor, said that the websites of Voice of America, the BBC, Deutsche Welle, Meduza and Radio Liberty had also been blocked.

On Friday, Deutsche Welle was completely unavailable while BBC’s availability was at 17 percent on GlobalCheck, an independent service which researches internet censorship in the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), of which both Russia and Ukraine are a part.

BBC Director-General Tim Davie said Wednesday that the BBC News website was witnessing an increase of more than 250 percent in the past week alone in Russia. The BBC also launched two shortwave frequencies to broadcast its World Service radio coverage to Ukraine and parts of Russia.

 

[Irish#1]

Putin isn't Hitler, but he is demonstrating some things (wanting to expand his domain, invading neighboring country, arresting protestors, controlling media) that make it fair for comparison. It may not be on the scale as Hitler in WWII but his actions are very similar minus the holocaust.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

 

[Irish#1]

More detail on what I posted last night. From Newsweek.

'Wanted: Dead or Alive': Russian Tycoon Puts $1M Bounty on Putin's Head​

BY JAKE THOMAS ON 3/2/22 AT 6:05 PM EST



AU.S.-based Russian businessman is offering $1 million to any military officer who apprehends Russian President Vladimir Putin "dead or alive" for committing war crimes in his invasion of Ukraine.

Alex Konanykhin, an entrepreneur and former banker, posted the bounty on social media as Russia enters a full week of military action against the neighboring country. Western governments and companies have responded to the invasion by seeking to economically punish Putin and Russia's ruling elite. The bounty offered by Konanykhin, who is now based in the U.S., places an even more direct target on the Russian leader as backlash over the invasion continues to escalate.

Konanykhin said in a Facebook post Tuesday that he promised to pay the officer or officers the money for arresting "Putin as a war criminal under Russian and international laws."

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

@Ndaccountant

 

[NDRock]

Putin isn't Hitler, but he is demonstrating some things (wanting to expand his domain, invading neighboring country, arresting protestors, controlling media) that make it fair for comparison. It may not be on the scale as Hitler in WWII but his actions are very similar minus the holocaust.

Putin also doesn’t have the military power Hitler had. How far we he go if he had the power at his disposal that Hitler had? Obviously Hitler’s racial worldview sets him apart from others, doesn’t seem Putin shares that.

 

[Irish#1]

Biden administration walks fine line on intelligence-sharing with Ukraine

The U.S. is providing some intelligence to Ukraine but not “real-time targeting,” House Armed Services Committee Chairman Adam Smith said.

March 4, 2022, 5:01 AM EST
By Ken Dilanian
The U.S. is not sharing some of the most sensitive intelligence that could enable lethal strikes against the Russian military by Ukrainian forces, in part over concerns about being seen as a direct participant in the war, the Democratic chairman of the House Armed Services Committee said Thursday.
The remarks by Rep. Adam Smith of Washington shed new light on a controversial question the Biden administration has declined to address directly.

Officials say the U.S. has long shared intelligence with Ukraine and continues to do so, but lawmakers say the issue of helping the Ukrainian forces with targeting information for deadly attacks is one of the many difficult quandaries officials confront as they try to help Ukraine fight off a Russian invasion without becoming embroiled in a military conflict with a nuclear-armed superpower.
“We want to support the Ukrainians in every way we possibly can, without going to war with Russia,” Smith said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “When it comes to intel-sharing and targeting, that’s a fine line.”

The U.S. is providing some intelligence to Ukraine, he said, but not “real-time targeting.”
“We’re not doing that, because that steps over the line to making us participating in the war. So the Pentagon is really struggling and walking that very fine line,” he said. White House press secretary Jen Psaki did not directly refute Smith’s comments.

“We’ve consistently shared a significant amount of detailed and timely intelligence on Russia’s plans and activities with the Ukrainian government to help Ukrainians defend themselves,” Psaki said, adding at another point that the U.S. has shared intelligence that Ukrainians “can use to inform and develop their military response to Russia’s invasion.” Psaki said she could not get into further details.

Later Thursday, Smith’s spokesman praised the Biden administration’s handling of the Ukraine situation without walking back his remarks about intelligence-sharing.
“As the chairman has previously stated, he believes the Biden-Harris administration is doing everything it can to rally allies and partners around the world to support the Ukrainians and hold Vladimir Putin and his cronies accountable,” the spokesman, Caleb Randall-Bodman, said in a statement. “These efforts have included humanitarian assistance, strong economic measures, and military and intelligence aid — all of which he supports. The intelligence provided to the Ukrainians is rapid, and can be used to defend their country.”
The Biden administration has provided hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to Ukraine, including Javelin anti-tank missiles and shoulder-fired Stinger anti-aircraft missiles. Administration officials have said they will continue to ship weapons to help Ukraine.
Smith’s description of withholding lethal targeting information was consistent with other remarks this week by lawmakers, all of whom are receiving regular classified briefings.

Biden administration officials pushed back against those earlier remarks Tuesday, saying there were no legal or policy impediments to sharing intelligence.

National security adviser Jake Sullivan said no White House decisions had impeded intelligence-sharing, and Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said intelligence-sharing “is not being held up — either previously or now — because of legal concerns.”
Several U.S. officials briefed on the matter said the concern about being considered a “co-belligerent” is not the only impediment to getting battlefield intelligence in the hands of the Ukrainians in real time.
Russian intelligence is monitoring Ukrainian communications, so there are worries about security, they said, and about compromising U.S. sources and methods. Ukrainians cannot always act on the information, they added.
There also may not be much intelligence to share, because the U.S. military is not flying overhead and has no boots on the ground — although the CIA still has a network of human sources in Ukraine watching Russian military movements, officials said.
“We should lean forward in providing actionable intelligence,” Marco Rubio of Florida, the ranking Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee, said Wednesday on CNN. “There are a couple factors to keep in place. Number one, can it be communicated in a secure way? And to be actionable, it has to be accurate. A lot of times people think intelligence is just as black or white. Oftentimes it is an assessment, a highly educated guess. You don’t want to make a mistake, especially since the Russians have shown the ability to adjust tactics.”
Sen. Mark Warner of Virginia, the Democrat who chairs the Intelligence Committee, told NBC News’ Hallie Jackson on Tuesday that he is satisfied with the level of intelligence-sharing.
“We are sharing intelligence with Ukrainians as quickly as possible,” Warner said. “We also have to realize, unfortunately, many of the Ukrainian services have been penetrated by the Russians over many years, so we have to protect our sources and methods.”
“We are doing all we can to help the Ukrainians in real time,” he said.