Quarterback Controversy 2016

[IrishSteelhead]

Since Kelly seems to rub everyone the wrong way too, Kizer will naturally start lol

Haha true.

 

[irishfan]

Kizer rubbed me the wrong way in the Showtime Series. He didn't really come across as that genuine to me.

^I'm aware my opinion means nothing and I couldn't possibly glean much about his character based on some interviews.

 

[koonja]

Kizer rubbed me the wrong way in the Showtime Series. He didn't really come across as that genuine to me.

^I'm aware my opinion means nothing and I couldn't possibly glean much about his character based on some interviews.

Yeah, but at the same time, in 1 minute of interview you can't help but love Zaire. We'll see how much that matters.

 

[irishandy]

Here's my take on this controversy with each QB:

Zaire-- we still do not know what he can do in a full year, as far as for arm strength or accuracy I think he can be par with Kizer. I think he is quicker as a running QB.

Kizer-- kid stepped up last year and played big for us. I am not a fan of a running QB, but he is stockier and can take more of a hit. My only question for him is what if he cannot repeat his success from last year?? I disagree that he would leave early.

Looking at this offense we lost a lot from last year's team and it will be a different look from the offensive line to who is lining up at WR.

Both QB's have what it takes I think to lead this team.

Right now I am giving the nod to Malik.

 

[mgriff]

I am just smiling waiting for the fucking meltdowns on this site come summer and autumn. People freaking out and shit talking each other is going to be great. I'm going to act like I'm above it now and then I'll get emotional at one point in the season and do a thousand word post about why something is fucking retarded and I'm smarter than all of you and Kelly.

That said, I'm for Kizer at this moment, until Malik shows he's clearly better. No hate on Malik, just liked what Kizer did and I'd go with him.

 

[BobbyMac]

I am just smiling waiting for the fucking meltdowns on this site come summer and autumn. People freaking out and shit talking each other is going to be great. I'm going to act like I'm above it now and then I'll get emotional at one point in the season and do a thousand word post about why something is fucking retarded and I'm smarter than all of you and Kelly.

That said, I'm for Kizer at this moment, until Malik shows he's clearly better. No hate on Malik, just liked what Kizer did and I'd go with him.

I thought that too early on but I don't see anyone invested in who gets the job. People have opinions but I don't think anyone is going to flip when the starter is announced. I thought MZ would win, I wanted him to win because of personal reasons but I'd surely have to guess DK won the spring battle and is ahead going into fall. I expect DK to win the job now and also expect him to be one of the Top 3 QB's as viewed by the NFL at the end of next season.

The only thing that would melt this board down is IF DK has an Everett Golson meltdown against MSU or Stanford. You don't get a bad outing when you have visions of the playoffs. That would certainly wake up the boo birds.

 

[stlnd01]

Is there no way a platoon works? Something along the lines of Kizer between the 20s and Zaire in the red zone?

DK's got a great deep/intermediate arm and a cool head on his shoulders, but he struggled at times last year in the finesse/short yardage game. Haven't seen enough of MZ to know if he's better at - say - the six yard fade to a tight end. But he could be. And probably is better the sort of designed run plays that can really open up a short yardage offense.

Bigger picture. We have two, probably three, QBs who would start on most teams. That's a long way from Tommy Rees or bust just a few years ago.

 

[woolybug25]

Is there no way a platoon works? Something along the lines of Kizer between the 20s and Zaire in the red zone?

DK's got a great deep/intermediate arm and a cool head on his shoulders, but he struggled at times last year in the finesse/short yardage game. Haven't seen enough of MZ to know if he's better at - say - the six yard fade to a tight end. But he could be. And probably is better the sort of designed run plays that can really open up a short yardage offense.

Bigger picture. We have two, probably three, QBs who would start on most teams. That's a long way from Tommy Rees or bust just a few years ago.

I've thought the same thing plenty of times, but then I remember it would probably be easier to just learn how to run between the tackles again.

 

[IrishLion]

I've thought the same thing plenty of times, but then I remember it would probably be easier to just learn how to run between the tackles again.

Fades on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and goal or gtfo.

 

[kmoose]

Bigger picture. We have two, probably three, QBs who would start on most teams. That's a long way from Tommy Rees or bust just a few years ago.

We should revisit BK....

 

[woolybug25]

Fades on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and goal or gtfo.

You forgot the bubble screen.

 

[IrishLion]

You forgot the bubble screen.

1st and goal: fade
2nd and goal: bubble screen
3rd and goal: jet sweet
4th and goal: lol jk we turned it over

 

[woolybug25]

1st and goal: fade
2nd and goal: bubble screen
3rd and goal: jet sweet
4th and goal: lol jk we turned it over

Perfection

 

[IrishLion]

In all seriousness, the redzone was a lot better last year due to the running game. BK still gets a bit too cute inside the 10 on occasion, and DK made some *freshman* mistakes at times, but I thought there was an obvious improvement from other seasons. Not sure if the numbers fully support that or not, but I felt like it was there.

If DK can prove in camp that he can be more efficient and protect the ball better inside the 20's than he did last season, I don't see Malik taking the job back.

 

[TDHeysus]

We should revisit BK....

beat me to it...you revisited it, before I could suggest to revisit it.

 

[stlnd01]

In all seriousness, the redzone was a lot better last year due to the running game. BK still gets a bit too cute inside the 10 on occasion, and DK made some *freshman* mistakes at times, but I thought there was an obvious improvement from other seasons. Not sure if the numbers fully support that or not, but I felt like it was there.

If DK can prove in camp that he can be more efficient and protect the ball better inside the 20's than he did last season, I don't see Malik taking the job back.

As it happens, we scored 31 touchdowns in 53 trys.
cfbstats.com - 2015 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Red Zone Conversion Offense Split Stats

That's actually not as good, percentagewise, as in 2014, when all we remember is dreadful Golson turnovers. But it's a bit better than our long-term trend over the last several years. (interestingly our worst year for TD conversion in the red zone as 2012).

As for Kizer, I do think some of his red zone issues boiled down to not having the right receivers. That wasn't Fuller's game, Robinson disappeared, and we lacked a reliable tight end for the first time in how long? Those things will improve, as should Kizer's confidence.
But if we're looking for a way to get MZ some snaps, the short game seems a reasonable place to start. If no other reason than his legs will open holes for the running backs.

 

[nsisk157]

I'll say what I've heard from "sources" (can't even type that with a straight face)...

Malik Zaire is basically a universally beloved member of the team and perfect teammate, whereas a lot of people view Kizer as "cocky" (and not necessarily in a good way like "confident".) This is almost ironic given how "cocky" some of Zaire's interviews/comments read, but that's what I've heard from multiple people that would know. Basically, everyone feels Zaire is genuine and has amazing leadership qualities... whereas some people just flat out get rubbed the wrong way by Kizer. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Same people have also said the Kizer is unquestionably the the superior QB and if the decision was strictly on arm talent it would be Kizer over Zaire and not very close. So I see lots of ways the QB selection could put divisions in the team or produce less-than-desirable results.

Thought the same when watching Showtime. (I know it's a program and editing and blah blah)

Rubbed me wrong way, all the same. Kid can ball though.. dont gotta love em, just win, baby.

 

[IrishLion]

As it happens, we scored 31 touchdowns in 53 trys.
cfbstats.com - 2015 Notre Dame Fighting Irish Red Zone Conversion Offense Split Stats

That's actually not as good, percentagewise, as in 2014, when all we remember is dreadful Golson turnovers. But it's a bit better than our long-term trend over the last several years. (interestingly our worst year for TD conversion in the red zone as 2012)

Well maybe it seemed to me like we were better because I was happier with the playcalling haha, even though the efficiency still isn't where it needs to be. It felt like BK was getting a bit less cute in the redzone with the playbook.

As for Kizer, I do think some of his red zone issues boiled down to not having the right receivers. That wasn't Fuller's game, Robinson disappeared, and we lacked a reliable tight end for the first time in how long? Those things will improve, as should Kizer's confidence.
But if we're looking for a way to get MZ some snaps, the short game seems a reasonable place to start. If no other reason than his legs will open holes for the running backs.

I'd have no problem with seeing DeShone as the primary QB, with Malik getting reps on 3rd and shorts and inside the 10 all year. I think BK could make it work, and I'd be happy to see it.

But I do think that the job is Kizer's to lose, and that he'll have a chance to shut down the QB competition if he can show in camp that he's going to protect the ball inside the 20 without a doubt.

 

[phgreek]

Here's my take on this controversy with each QB:

Zaire-- we still do not know what he can do in a full year, as far as for arm strength or accuracy I think he can be par with Kizer. I think he is quicker as a running QB.

Kizer-- kid stepped up last year and played big for us. I am not a fan of a running QB, but he is stockier and can take more of a hit. My only question for him is what if he cannot repeat his success from last year?? I disagree that he would leave early.

Looking at this offense we lost a lot from last year's team and it will be a different look from the offensive line to who is lining up at WR.

Both QB's have what it takes I think to lead this team.

Right now I am giving the nod to Malik.

I agree...This team needs something different from the QB this year. DK had homerun hitters all over the field, and they were veterans. He did a fine job, but this year I think the identity of the offense has got to be sustained execution. Long drives based on completing 7-10 yard darts, buble screens to playmakers in space, and running the ball. I want to see fall camp, but I just feel like that's MZ stuff...he can do more with his feet, and he seems to have a quicker throwing motion...if accuracy is 6s...I'm pickin MZ.

The leadership discussion...meh, the team will follow either of these guys because both have shown they can play big in big games. I mean hell, Jimmy Clausen was not Brady Quinn, but he was Gooood, and the team followed him.

 

[jspags10pg]

I think we have a great problem on our hands but I look at one BIG thing and that is ball security. Malik has a smaller sample size than Kizer but in about 4 full games of playing time as ND's QB Malik has a total of ZERO turnovers. No fumbles, no interceptions. Nothing. And I'm not positive but I don't remember the entire team having a turnover during any of Malik's time taking snaps. Malik has my vote as long as he returns to the same pre-injury form, which he seems to have done. That said...I understand the love for Kizer. Kid is a baller with a great arm. Can't really go wrong.

 

[calvegas04]

If Kizer started against UVA last season do we win the game comfortable? If Malik doesn't break his leg do we win the game against UVA last season?

 

[NDVirginia19]

If Kizer started against UVA last season do we win the game comfortable? If Malik doesn't break his leg do we win the game against UVA last season?

Malik had started to turn the game around and we were on our way to go up by 12. If Malik stays healthy we win the game easily IMO

 

[ulukinatme]

Hope it's Zaire, but I wouldn't be terribly upset if it was Kizer. Great position to be in.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I don't care about Kizer being cocky until 1) he gets flagged 2) it ruins team chemistry. Until then, have at hoss. The kid can be really, really good if he stays on course.

Malik, though, won't take it sitting down. So like others have said, if this QB controversy thing splits the locker room...it won't matter who's out there.

For me, I trust both guys. What Malik did to LSU and TX was fun to watch. But Kizer, over the course of a season, seemed to have much better command of the offense. And he always stepped up when the team needed him most. I will say that having Fuller and Procise on your team will make any QB look good. So I'm trying not to be Kizer-or-bust. Also, BK has a history of getting great production out of first-year QBs and then come their second year, he puts too much on them and they can't handle it. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I have no idea who I want on the field more. Both are good choices. And fuck it, if they can't handle it, maybe Wimbush will step up.

 

[koonja]

I don't care about Kizer being cocky until 1) he gets flagged 2) it ruins team chemistry. Until then, have at hoss. The kid can be really, really good if he stays on course.

Malik, though, won't take it sitting down. So like others have said, if this QB controversy thing splits the locker room...it won't matter who's out there.

For me, I trust both guys. What Malik did to LSU and TX was fun to watch. But Kizer, over the course of a season, seemed to have much better command of the offense. And he always stepped up when the team needed him most. I will say that having Fuller and Procise on your team will make any QB look good. So I'm trying not to be Kizer-or-bust. Also, BK has a history of getting great production out of first-year QBs and then come their second year, he puts too much on them and they can't handle it. I guess what I'm trying to say, is that I have no idea who I want on the field more. Both are good choices. And fuck it, if they can't handle it, maybe Wimbush will step up.

Taking one poster's comments at face value based on a source, so for whatever that's worth, but if true, it sounds like the team already views him as a D bag.

If this team falls a part and wins 9 games I'm going to be a hell of a lot more upset if that is with Malik on the bench than Kizer. JMO. Ideally I hope the alleged personality differences aren't that great as rumored because Kizer is the better QB IMO. But if it's like that, I'd rather personally play for Malik.

 

[IrishLax]

If Kizer started against UVA last season do we win the game comfortable? If Malik doesn't break his leg do we win the game against UVA last season?

Is this a joke? Malik had us up two scores before he went out (yes, I'm counting the fact that we scored the play after his injury on a handoff). And we should've been up more, were it not for some bad breaks on long drives.

Malik Zaire graded out MUCH higher on a per game basis than Kizer, albeit with a small sample size. That's just the facts. The problem with going back to Zaire has more to do with the offense we want to try to run this year and how that fits Kizer.

 

[IrishLax]

Taking one poster's comments at face value based on a source, so for whatever that's worth, but if true, it sounds like the team already views him as a D bag.

If this team falls a part and wins 9 games I'm going to be a hell of a lot more upset if that is with Malik on the bench than Kizer. JMO. Ideally I hope the alleged personality differences aren't that great as rumored because Kizer is the better QB IMO. But if it's like that, I'd rather personally play for Malik.

To be fair, there are plenty of unliked players and/or "D-bags" that are successful QBs. Connor Cook is probably one of the most recent/well-known examples, AJ McCarron is another one. And then there are guys, like Jay Cutler, whose personality seems to destroy any cohesiveness and motivation his team has when the going gets rough.

I think in a vacuum guys would be OK with Kizer, it's just that you have another guy who is undefeated as a starter (including a bowl game shredding of the best defense in the SEC, and a demolition of Texas in prime time) in a small sample size and beloved by coaches/players. So what do you do? It's also not like Kizer has ever shrunk from the moment either, though... against Clemson he showed giant brass balls in the 4th quarter, and he handled Stanford with confidence/ease.

 

[dublinirish]

problem for MZ is that he is not nor never will be a great practice QB. Gonna be very hard for him to get back into a starting role unless Kizer totally stinks it up

 

[IrishLion]

Kizer looked exponentially more comfortable being in charge of the offense during the spring game, and I don't see Zaire taking the job back if Kizer improves upon that at all in the summer.

I know, you're not supposed to take anything away from Spring games, and I know that Zaire was coming off of an injury and probably pressing a little bit (on top of dealing with different playcalling than Kizer), but there still seemed to be a noticeable gap between the two in terms of comfort and operation.

I just think that with the current gap that exists, it is much more likely that Kizer slams the door on the competition than it is that Zaire closes the gap.

But I know nothing, Jon Snows.

 

[koonja]

I'm a stupidly passionate fan just like all of you, and as the season approaches, I feel like I'm going to lean more towards Malik. He has that craziness about him. And not a bad craziness, but a 'win' craziness. He's a more talented Tebow. There I said it!