'16 CA LB Caleb Kelly (Oklahoma Verbal)

[Irishman77]

Caleb seems to be a great kid. He is not going to come out and say how risky it feels playing for BVG and a horrendous defense despite it being chalked full of talent

 

[#1rish]

Alright, time to unsub from this thread. Don't really need to hear from the recruit how close he was to coming here.

 

[texbender]

Win some, lose some. The kid chose what he thinks is best for him. Best of luck to him, Irish will go forward with their tribe. Onward Toward Victory.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Jesus Christ, you think this kid chose ISIS the way some of you a bitching. Believe it or not, Notre Dame isn't going to land every five-star player regardless of how great their relationship is with the coaching staff, how much they love the school or how much they respect every the process.

Caleb Kelly handled his process like a boss. He set a timeline and stuck with it. He took his unofficial and official visits and got all the information he needed to make an educated decision on where to attend school and play football for the next 3-5 years.

It's really funny to hear about how the "kid" made a bad decision when the school he didnt pick didn't even really pick up recruiting him until about the last possible second they could have to stay in the race.

If Notre Dame made Caleb Kelly a priority earlier, then things might have been different, but it was clear they liked a few other kids more earlier in the process. Not saying that's a bad thing, because you have to trust your process and your evaluations.

 

[JD Irish]

Notre Dame isn't going to land every five-star player

Keep being an apologist. The bottom line is that we need to land one to two more elite players in every class. We have good classes that don't take the next step to being great because we aren't signing players like him.

 

[kjones]

[U]OK[/U]......[U]ND [/U]
10  3   12   1
11  2    9   4
 8  5    8   5
[U]11  2  [/U]    [U]10   3[/U]
40  12  39  13

I can't speak for anything else, but math is a strong suit of mine.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Keep being an apologist. The bottom line is that we need to land one to two more elite players in every class. We have good classes that don't take the next step to being great because we aren't signing players like him.

Every school in the country can make that case. Clemson, Oklahoma and Michigan State made the playoffs and you can make an argument Notre Dame has out recruited all three schools the last 4 years.

Alabama is the school that out recruits every program in the nation and Notre Dame is never going to get to that point, because Notre Dame isn't going to compromise the values the school was built on.

 

[gkIrish]

Check that math homie. (just busting your balls)

[U]OK[/U]......[U]ND [/U]
10  3   12   1
11  2    9   4
 8  5    8   5
[U]11  2  [/U]    [U]10   3[/U]
40  12  39  13

I can't speak for anything else, but math is a strong suit of mine.

I'm an idiot and haven't had my coffee yet.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Alabama is the school that out recruits every program in the nation and Notre Dame is never going to get to that point, because Notre Dame isn't going to compromise the values the school was built on.

I have a question about this, for you or anybody else who knows. If ND had a magic magnet that induced all recruits who could gain admission to come here, would we have a 1/2/3ish ranked recruiting class every year? Or are there not enough top players who could get in to produce such a class?

I want to know how much a coach like Saban or Meyer would effectively overcome the higher admission standards. I realize that those sort of coaches may not want to come here because of the higher admission standards (and apparently this was in fact a driving force behind Meyer not coming here in 2004).

 

[BeauBenken]

"Academics have always been very important to me..."
"I've been a straight A student throughout school..."

Commits to a state school with a 81% acceptance rate.

I dont know why I still follow recruiting.

An article was just published the other day from a former recruiting coordinator about how recruiters manipulate the data from their school in every which way to make them look like good academic schools.

Philly, you're too young to go off and side with the cynics. Stay positive, don't get too caught up caring too much in recruiting, and you will be fine.

(This message applies to all y'all though I know some are far past saving.)

 

[tussin]

I have a question about this, for you or anybody else who knows. If ND had a magic magnet that induced all recruits who could gain admission to come here, would we have a 1/2/3ish ranked recruiting class every year? Or are there not enough top players who could get in to produce such a class?

I want to know how much a coach like Saban or Meyer would effectively overcome the higher admission standards. I realize that those sort of coaches may not want to come here because of the higher admission standards (and apparently this was in fact a driving force behind Meyer not coming here in 2004).

I think we could get top 5 classes consistently under the right scenario.

Just one example: If Stanford went back to being Stanford, I have to imagine that we would pick up a few of their top kids every year.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Every school in the country can make that case. Clemson, Oklahoma and Michigan State made the playoffs and you can make an argument Notre Dame has out recruited all three schools the last 4 years.

Alabama is the school that out recruits every program in the nation and Notre Dame is never going to get to that point, because Notre Dame isn't going to compromise the values the school was built on.

Bullshit. ND did what Alabama is doing in the early part of the Holtz years. ND raked them in, so to speak. Holtz knew then that recruiting was the key. He did everything he could to make the roster better, both recruiting and S&C. He was innovative for the times.

ND could still be that way. You don't need to compromise standards, but you need to be innovative. The semi was innovative, but examples like those have been too few to consistently rake in top 5 classes. I just don't think all of ND coaches approach recruiting with the vigor that Holtz's staffs had. Hell......where do you think Urban learned it?

The 25th head coach in the history of Notre Dame football is on all fours in the middle of his office, peering out the open door of an imaginary airplane. "The wind is howling, and you've got to reach out and grab a strut, and put your right foot on this little platform," says Lou Holtz, who is reenacting a parachute jump he took from an airplane this summer. "Then you pull yourself up and out, and you're looking straight down, 10 thousand feet. Calmly, you ask yourself. What in the world am I doing?"

Back in 1966, Holtz sat down and compiled a list of 107 "things to do before I die." Skydiving was one, as was landing the head coaching job at Notre Dame. Also on the list was winning a national championship, a feat he accomplished last season, only three years after arriving in South Bend. "I don't do these things to get attention," says Holtz. "I do them because it's my philosophy to get involved with life. Once you do something like that, you can relive the experience a thousand times in your mind."

Notre Dame's subway alumni will relive last season's glory in their minds at least that many times—and will settle for reliving it on the field, say, four or five more times before Holtz retires. So decisively has Holtz banished the woeful legacy of Gerry Faust (30-26-1 from 1981-85), so swiftly did he deliver Notre Dame its first national title in 11 years, that expectations, like nose-tackle Chris Zorich's bench press, are off the charts.

Yet Holtz devotes much of his energy to lancing those expectations. Take the day last season before his No. 1-ranked team made pudding of Rice, 54-11. Said Holtz, earnestly, "I'm scared to death of Rice." Minutes after unbeaten Notre Dame stuffed West Virginia 34-21 in the Fiesta Bowl to win the national title—the Irish started 15 nonseniors in the game—Holtz said, "I would be shocked if we had a good team next year."

Typical Holtz. Then August arrived, and a spate of ill luck did indeed befall the Irish. Inside linebacker Michael Stonebreaker, who had his license suspended after pleading guilty to a drunken driving charge last March, was booted off the team for driving a car on campus; he had moved the car for a friend to avoid a parking infraction. Starting tailback Tony Brooks withdrew from school after a series of academic and disciplinary problems. Defensive tackle George Williams became an academic casualty, and starting defensive end Arnold Ale, a Californian who had been known to don mittens, scarf and hat when the mercury dipped below 50°, last month signed with UCLA. Backup fullback Braxston Banks, who had knee surgery, and linebacker John Foley, who suffered nerve damage in his right arm, have not recovered from their injuries.

"Had I known the problems I would be confronted with," says Holtz, back behind his desk after reliving the leap, "I might have removed my chute before jumping."

Violinists, this is your cue. While Holtz dwells on the cloud, let us examine the silver lining. In each of the last three years, Notre Dame has plundered the high school ranks for the bluest of the nation's blue-chip prospects. This year, with the national championship in hand, the Irish were turning All-Americas away at the door.

"It's frustrating, because you know those guys have a chance to come back and hurt you," says recruiting coordinator Vinny Cerrato. "Last year we had 60 recruits visit the campus, and only five told us they didn't want to come here."

Stonebreaker will not be easy to replace, but tailback Rodney Culver and defensive tackle Bob Dahl could erase memories of Brooks and Williams. The defense is fast, experienced and—forgive them. Lord—nasty. Nine starters are back on offense, including senior quarterback Tony Rice. Yet Holtz is still laying it on thick. "I thought this might be a great football team, but now we won't be," he says. Even Holtz's staff is secretly amused by his relentless pessimism. "We only found out we wouldn't be forfeiting the season last Tuesday," deadpanned one official in the athletic department late last month.

Every once in a while Holtz slips and the truth leaks out. In his recently released book. The Fighting Spirit, we learn that in a speech to the team shortly before the '88 season began, Holtz decreed, "Nobody will beat us this year. Nobody. There isn't any reason for it." He then spent five minutes supporting that contention.

Once again, the truth is that the Irish are loaded. Holtz has a chance to forge college football's first genuine dynasty since Bud Wilkinson's Oklahoma teams of the mid-'50s. How did Holtz and his staff wake up the echoes so quickly? First, they realized that Notre Dame does not have a divine right to the country's best athletes. As a state-of-the-art recruiting coordinator, Cerrato is one of Notre Dame's concessions to big-time NCAA football in the latter part of the 20th century. He is 30, sharply dressed and, as a recent Notre Dame graduate says, "the only guy in South Bend with a tan in February."


Says Holtz, "Vinny is well organized, and communicates exceptionally well with young people"—which means he knows something about rap music, and is familiar with a broad array of handshakes and hand slaps.

The NCAA forbids anyone but a team's nine full-time coaches from going on the road to recruit. Even though Cerrato only coaches kickers—and very little, at that—Holtz made him a full-time coach. Holtz brought Cerrato with him from Minnesota, and Cerrato has attracted to Notre Dame the top-ranked crop in the country in each of the three recruiting years since then, according to most of the scouting publications.

The names of 250 prospects, on yellow tags, are affixed to a board behind Cerrato in his office. That number has been reduced from more than 1,000 by the unsmiling gatekeepers over at the admissions office and by the coaches' scrutiny of game videos. Over the course of this fall's prep season, Cerrato will view more tapes of most of the 250—"if they play on a Saturday, we can usually get video by the following Tuesday." he says—enabling him to pare that number to a workable 80 or so. For five months, beginning Nov. 1, Cerrato hits the road—from California to Florida.

Over the past 25 years, Notre Dame has graduated more than 98% of its football players. Coaches are up-front with recruits about what kind of grind the place can be, and do not go after athletes they think won't be able to hack it. "They definitely don't try to fool you," says Eric Simien, a freshman defensive end from Gardena, Calif. "They don't wine you and dine you. They promise you a lot of hard work. It's like, 'This is Notre Dame, take it or leave it.' "

By signing with the Irish, was Simien fulfilling a lifelong dream? "Actually, I didn't even know where this place was," he says. "My mother wanted me to go to Notre Dame, but all mothers want their sons to go to Notre Dame. Then I came here for my visit, and it was like magic."

The difference between a recruiting visit to Notre Dame and one to another school is that recruits generally remember their stays in South Bend. Rather than getting a beer-drenched, whistle-stop tour of every party in town, they meet with academic counselors, tutors, professors and coaches. "The first thing they do is sit you down with an academic advisor," says another freshman, Rick Mirer, considered by many to be the best prep quarterback in the country last season. "That's your introduction to Notre Dame."

Though he was raised in Goshen, Ind., only 25 miles from South Bend, Mirer was not automatically sold on Notre Dame. Mirer's parents are from Michigan, and he says, "I was raised on Wolverine football." He also visited UCLA and Indiana. "Those places had more to offer socially," says Mirer, who will probably major in business. "But you can do a lot of things with a degree from this place."

Cerrato recruits according to need. Two years ago he brought in a class top-heavy with linemen, linebackers and running backs. Last year's crop is renowned for its speed; it included two receivers who started as freshmen, wideout Raghib (Rocket) Ismail and tight end Derek Brown. This year's bunch of 25 was again laden with some of the country's finest linebackers and linemen, in addition to Mirer, who is expected to pilot the Irish into the '90s. For next year, Cerrato is concentrating on defensive backs.

Notre Dame has also moved to the cutting edge in strength and conditioning. When Holtz arrived in South Bend, weight workouts were held in cramped quarters in the Athletic and Convocation Center and consisted of "90 guys falling all over each other," as new strength and conditioning coach Jerry Schmidt puts it. Schmidt now presides over structured weight-training sessions in the gleaming $6.3 million Loftus Sports Center, which was opened in September 1987.

Schmidt invites a visitor to inspect the team's performance charts, which list the leaders, by position, in such events as the 40-yard dash, vertical jump, bench press and 300-yard shuttle run (a series of five 60-yard sprints). The charts reveal that nosetackle Zorich has the most formidable bench press, at 460 pounds, and also runs a 4.68 40.

After each season, players decide on "strength goals," which are fed into the Loftus Center's computer. The computer disgorges an individual weekly off-season workout schedule and keeps a four-year strength and conditioning profile of each player. For their four-times-a-week lifting sessions, athletes are broken down into intimate little "lifting groups." A player stays with the same group all year, so if he misses a session, it's hard to go unnoticed. Orwellian? Perhaps. Successful? Unquestionably.

Twice a week at prescribed times—class schedules are consulted to avoid conflicts—the players report to the Loftus Center for speed training, an hour of punishing agility drills and running with a concrete sled strapped to their waist.

Says Holtz: "Strength is great for their confidence"—and not merely confidence in their playing ability.


"One thing you notice about these guys," says Schmidt. "They'll fight you in a second." Indeed, the Christian virtue of turning the other cheek has taken it on the chin under Holtz, whose coaching style has restored the fight in the Fighting Irish. Recall the unseemly pregame rhubarb with Miami last year, initiated, to the nation's surprise, by the choirboys rather than the "convicts," as Notre Dame students had sanctimoniously dubbed the Hurricanes. Recall the eight personal fouls committed by the Irish in the Fiesta Bowl. University officials cluck their tongues at such behavior and coaches mouth condemnations of it, and meanwhile everyone is secretly tickled that the boys aren't taking guff anymore.

Notre Dame also brags about what it didn't do to get back to the top: no athletic dorms, no training table, no breaks from professors for athletes, no gut courses, no taking five years to get your degree, no anabolic steroids (they swear), and almost no social life during the season. "We do not alter the philosophy of the university for athletics," says executive vice-president Rev. William Beauchamp. "Everything we do must be a reflection of our primary mission, which is preparing our students to serve society and the church."

Cornerback Pat Terrell briefly forgot his mission at practice that very evening. Well after the whistle, Terrell got his hand inside a ballcarrier's face mask and pushed his head into the turf. Terrell had merely been exacting vengeance. Earlier, during a passing drill, the victim of Terrell's aggression had been overthrown. He walked back to the huddle, without retrieving the ball.

His Omniscience pounced on the young man. "Son, this is not a star system," screamed Holtz. "You do not have a caddie." Holtz had the entire team encircle the offender, then go through a grueling calisthenic called "up-downs."

"These are for you," Holtz shouted at the transgressor as the up-downs began. Later, he admitted they had been for everyone. He had sensed that practice was getting sloppy, and cracked a whip. Yet Holtz is just as quick to put his arm around a player who is down on himself. He is uncannily attuned to his charges, to whether they are fresh or tired, underconfident or cocky. He knows when to speak harshly and when to soothe. Excruciatingly organized, he nonetheless does not hesitate to improvise during practice. "I generally listen to my heart," he says.

The day before the up-downs, the team had run "gassers"—sideline-to-sideline sprints—after morning practice. The day was muggy, the air full of the sound of hard breathing. After 10 gassers, Holtz made an announcement. "I have instructed the coaches to have you out of your meetings by 9:30 tonight, so that you may observe the lunar eclipse. There will not be another one until 1992."

The team smiled through its discomfort. Holtz smiled back—and had them run 10 more gassers. "This sure is fun, men," he said as the interior linemen huffed past on number 16. "Yes, I think we're going to have a pretty good team this year."

He will change his tune in public. He will take on a hangdog look, and say such things as, "I thought this might be a great team, but now we'll have to fight and struggle just to compete."

Of course, Holtz wouldn't think of going into a season saying anything else. That would be like jumping from an airplane without a parachute.

All for 1

 

[NDohio]

Bullshit. ND did what Alabama is doing in the early part of the Holtz years. ND raked them in, so to speak. Holtz knew then that recruiting was the key. He did everything he could to make the roster better, both recruiting and S&C. He was innovative for the times.

ND could still be that way. You don't need to compromise standards, but you need to be innovative. The semi was innovative, but examples like those have been too few to consistently rake in top 5 classes. I just don't think all of ND coaches approach recruiting with the vigor that Holtz's staffs had. Hell......where do you think Urban learned it?



All for 1

Different time - different world.

When Holtz was here Notre Dame was still one of a handful of college football teams that were on TV every Saturday. Bama, OState, Michigan, USC, OK, Texas, Tenn, FLState, and Notre Dame. That was about it. Those school got all the attention and air time on a limited number of television channels. A kid knew that if he went to a lesser school, his opportunity to get national airtime was very limited. That world is long gone. A kid can go to any power five conference team and get TV time. Anybody can make the highlight reel on Fox and ESPN - even lower level division kids can get airtime if they are good/special. The Notre Dame advantage of being on national TV is not the same as it used to be. It's still there, but it's not nearly - not even close - to what it used to be.

Add in that schools can't sign as many players on their team as they could back then and the talent now gets spread around. When Hotlz was at ND, the scholarship limits were still at 95 per team. There were kids on sidelines that could have made a difference if they were playing at other schools but they were buried in those huge rosters.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Different time - different world.

When Holtz was here Notre Dame was still one of a handful of college football teams that were on TV every Saturday. Bama, OState, Michigan, USC, OK, Texas, Tenn, FLState, and Notre Dame. That was about it. Those school got all the attention and air time on a limited number of television channels. A kid knew that if he went to a lesser school, his opportunity to get national airtime was very limited. That world is long gone. A kid can go to any power five conference team and get TV time. Anybody can make the highlight reel on Fox and ESPN - even lower level division kids can get airtime if they are good/special. The Notre Dame advantage of being on national TV is not the same as it used to be. It's still there, but it's not nearly - not even close - to what it used to be.

Add in that schools can't sign as many players on their team as they could back then and the talent now gets spread around. When Hotlz was at ND, the scholarship limits were still at 95 per team. There were kids on sidelines that could have made a difference if they were playing at other schools but they were buried in those huge rosters.

The point is that they were innovative for the time. What is ND football doing today that is truly innovative outside of the showtime series? I'll wait......

They are behind the times of major powers. Sure, BK has taken steps to close the gap and I think he has done a good job with it. Take a step back and compare what he is doing in his football offices to other major powers.....he is playing catch-up (and it's not all his fault either, btw). But to hint that ND can't recruit at the top of each cycle b/c it would compromise the university mission and standards is pure twaddle.

 

[dales5050]

You don't need to compromise standards, but you need to be innovative.

I think what CBK and staff are doing with the Preferred Walk Ons is about as innovative as you can get.

From what I have read, while they are not offering a scholarship they are allowed to get kids past admissions under 'football standards' and for many kids that's enough for them to pick ND over a MAC type programs. I also read that since ND charges need based tuition, the bill some of these kids or their family pays is actually quite affordable...all things considered.

These kids are from what I can tell treated just like every other player on the team outside of how they are paying for school. You're not going to find blue chips here but you will build out a very, very deep roster and you may find a gem or two in the process.

It's actually such a brilliant program it almost feels like they are cheating the system. They are not but it feels that way.

 

[NDohio]

The point is that they were innovative for the time. What is ND football doing today that is truly innovative outside of the showtime series? I'll wait......

They are behind the times of major powers. Sure, BK has taken steps to close the gap and I think he has done a good job with it. Take a step back and compare what he is doing in his football offices to other major powers.....he is playing catch-up (and it's not all his fault either, btw). But to hint that ND can't recruit at the top of each cycle b/c it would compromise the university mission and standards is pure twaddle.

I'm not sure what other programs are doing that is so innovative in comparison.

Preferred walk-ons add to our roster in an innovative way, Showtime series, NDOne, Pots of Gold, etc.

Recruiting really comes down to good old fashioned hard work and building relationships with High Schools and recruits. I think ND coaches are improving on this each year.

 

[CrystalHead]

Jesus Christ, you think this kid chose ISIS the way some of you a bitching. Believe it or not, Notre Dame isn't going to land every five-star player regardless of how great their relationship is with the coaching staff, how much they love the school or how much they respect every the process.

Caleb Kelly handled his process like a boss. He set a timeline and stuck with it. He took his unofficial and official visits and got all the information he needed to make an educated decision on where to attend school and play football for the next 3-5 years.

It's really funny to hear about how the "kid" made a bad decision when the school he didnt pick didn't even really pick up recruiting him until about the last possible second they could have to stay in the race.

If Notre Dame made Caleb Kelly a priority earlier, then things might have been different, but it was clear they liked a few other kids more earlier in the process. Not saying that's a bad thing, because you have to trust your process and your evaluations.

Couldn't agree more! Kelly handled his recruitment beautifully and I believe he was really torn. I wish him the best in football and in life. I'm taking the Lou Holtz approach on recruiting... Don't worry about the ones you lost but worry about the ones who signed with you. This is a great class and can't wait to see what happens with them when they get coached up by our staff. Top 15 being a private university with high academic standards is fantastic. Everyone on here wants more, I get that, but so does the coaching staff. Thanks to all the young men who signed with the Irish and showed the love we all share for our program.

 

[Luckylucci]

Jesus Christ, you think this kid chose ISIS the way some of you a bitching. Believe it or not, Notre Dame isn't going to land every five-star player regardless of how great their relationship is with the coaching staff, how much they love the school or how much they respect every the process.

Caleb Kelly handled his process like a boss. He set a timeline and stuck with it. He took his unofficial and official visits and got all the information he needed to make an educated decision on where to attend school and play football for the next 3-5 years.

It's really funny to hear about how the "kid" made a bad decision when the school he didnt pick didn't even really pick up recruiting him until about the last possible second they could have to stay in the race.

If Notre Dame made Caleb Kelly a priority earlier, then things might have been different, but it was clear they liked a few other kids more earlier in the process. Not saying that's a bad thing, because you have to trust your process and your evaluations.

While I understand the big picture, I think the reason folks get upset about this is that he says how immensely important academics are to him and then chooses Oklahoma. Oklahoma's football program is absolute garbage when it comes to academics. I think that some ND grads, which I am not, realize how truly difficult it is to get into ND and how truly special/elite of an academic program it is. Therefore, when a kid says that he chose Oklahoma over ND and academics was his biggest priority then it chaps some asses.

I think its reasonable both ways. Kid wants to save face and present his selection as an academic choice, when all know its not. ND grads get upset that they are essentially being thrown into the same category as Oklahoma and all their hard work is, somewhat, marginalized.

 

[IrishLion]

While I understand the big picture, I think the reason folks get upset about this is that he says how immensely important academics are to him and then chooses Oklahoma. Oklahoma's football program is absolute garbage when it comes to academics. I think that some ND grads, which I am not, realize how truly difficult it is to get into ND and how truly special/elite of an academic program it is. Therefore, when a kid says that he chose Oklahoma over ND and academics was his biggest priority then it chaps some asses.

I think its reasonable both ways. Kid wants to save face and present his selection as an academic choice, when all know its not. ND grads get upset that they are essentially being thrown into the same category as Oklahoma and all their hard work is, somewhat, marginalized.

He says they are important, yes.... but people shouldn't be upset about it, because the kid has given several quotes as to why he chose Oklahoma, and it wasn't academics.

He can say that academics are important, but then choose Oklahoma for other reasons. It doesn't mean that he was lying. It just means that other things weighed more heavily in the decision. And he's talked about those things. We don't need to have the round-and-round discussion on academics every time a kid mentions it lol.

 

[Luckylucci]

I'm not upset by any stretch of the imagination, I was just explaining my view on why some do. I follow 3 different message boards and obviously this comes up quite often at all 3, that's all.

 

[IrishLion]

I'm not upset by any stretch of the imagination, I was just explaining my view on why some do. I follow 3 different message boards and obviously this comes up quite often at all 3, that's all.

Yeah I get it, I was just more putting it out there in general.

It's a pervasive thing that needs to go away lol. I guess it's just the easiest thing to be upset about when a kid doesn't pick ND.

 

[Irish#1]

His idea of what's important in academics versus others aren't necessarily the same. The value of the degree probably isn't that important so much as simply getting the degree.

The key to this was the relationships built by OU. They got on him early and often. ND didn't.

BK got in early on most of the class of 16 and it paid as there were no flips. Each year we're seeing the team get involved with kids earlier then before. We're never going to get everyone, but were improving every year.

 

[JohnnyJasper]

We lost out on big potential LB. Oh well. Time to move on. Still have Bilal/Barajas and now Hayes who have yet to see the field. Patience my friends...

 

[Ndaccountant]

I'm not sure what other programs are doing that is so innovative in comparison.

Preferred walk-ons add to our roster in an innovative way, Showtime series, NDOne, Pots of Gold, etc.

Recruiting really comes down to good old fashioned hard work and building relationships with High Schools and recruits. I think ND coaches are improving on this each year.

https://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1497618

That shows how Saban has changed the way football programs operate......similar to what Holtz did early on at ND.

And PWO is not innovative.....everyone utilizes it......

For college coaches, preferred walk-ons serve as a loophole to go beyond their limit of 85 scholarship players and bring in a potential late bloomer with little to no strings attached. Though the NCAA does not compile specific data on walk-ons, with 20 walk-on spots allocated to compete in preseason camp and many in-season rosters numbering just north of 100 players, there are likely well over 1,000 walk-ons across the 128 Football Bowl Subdivision schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...1661da-c9b3-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html

 

[Domina Nostra]

https://alabama.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1497618

That shows how Saban has changed the way football programs operate......similar to what Holtz did early on at ND.

And PWO is not innovative.....everyone utilizes it......


https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...1661da-c9b3-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html

How is it getting around anything? They can't be on scholarship.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Any chance he has a sick Grandma and we'll keep recruiting him?

 

[ACamp1900]

I've taken a couple of sabbaticals from this board before, all around this time of year... it's like an instinctual thing really, but when I see threads like this it hits me... Oh yeah,.... THAT's why I want to stay away for a while during this time of year...

 

[MNIrishman]

His idea of what's important in academics versus others aren't necessarily the same. The value of the degree probably isn't that important so much as simply getting the degree.

The key to this was the relationships built by OU. They got on him early and often. ND didn't.

BK got in early on most of the class of 16 and it paid as there were no flips. Each year we're seeing the team get involved with kids earlier then before. We're never going to get everyone, but were improving every year.

If simply getting the degree was important, he blew that big time. Oklahoma had a 47% football graduation rate for the last year I saw numbers reported. I hope being buddy buddy with Big Game Bob makes up for the fact that OU is basically toying with its players' futures. It was an objectively bad decision, one so horrifically wrong-headed that someone who makes it probably belongs at Oklahoma.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Caleb Kelly handled his process like a boss. He set a timeline and stuck with it. He took his unofficial and official visits and got all the information he needed to make an educated decision on where to attend school and play football for the next 3-5 years.

Best of luck to Caleb, and he obviously didn't anything wrong, but I'm not as impressed with these kids "processes" as some other people.

First of all, going to the exact last minute doesn't sound like much of a plan to me. It's funny how everyone but the elite kids manage to make up their minds faster. The elite kids have leverage, and use it, but to what end? They all end up at the same schools anyway. What do they really "know" at the end of the process that they didn't 4 months earlier? I bet they pick "wrong" as often as they pick "right."

And while I don't think there is anything morally wrong about hat pick ceremonies, last minute NSD ceremonies are self-agrandizing and they can force your second place school--one you apparently like--left with a hole in its roster. Not sure why that is so great. If possible, make up your mind and let people know. Have your ceremony, but its not some federal secret. Its not important at all. That's why Eddie Vanderpants gets no sympathy from me. Oh your NSD surprise got ruined... wah, wah...big deal, lots of people have real problems.

Also, if you pick the school sooner, you become part of the sales team and can help attract other kids.

Secondly, letting totally artifical relationships with men who are trying to sell you something dictate a decision is about as arbitrary as it gets, IMO. After a certain point, you aren't adding new "information," except in the loosest sense of the word. The man who is selling to you (Tony Alford, Mike Sanford) has a real life and has to take the right job if it comes along.

Once again, best of luck to CK, but I'm not goign to go so far as to pretend he did anything that separated him from your typical nice teenage kid.

If simply getting the degree was important, he blew that big time. Oklahoma had a 47% football graduation rate for the last year I saw numbers reported. I hope being buddy buddy with Big Game Bob makes up for the fact that OU is basically toying with its players' futures. It was an objectively bad decision, one so horrifically wrong-headed that someone who makes it probably belongs at Oklahoma.

No one sees themselves as a statistic. CK looks around the Sooner locker room and asks himself, "Am I in the top 50%, or the bottom 50% of this class?" Kids like CK are not the one's who fail out, so that statistic doesn't mean much to him.

The statistic is really only useful to kids who may not cut it in college. The Gronkowski's of the world. For ND, its useful to show that most kids who are let in do great.

 

[dales5050]

First of all, going to the exact last minute doesn't sound like much of a plan to me. It's funny how everyone but the elite kids manage to make up their minds faster. The elite kids have leverage, and use it, but to what end? They all end up at the same schools anyway. What do they really "know" at the end of the process that they didn't 4 months earlier? I bet they pick "wrong" as often as they pick "right."

I think the elite kids have many more considerations than the other players.

The elite kids are supposed to contribute Day 1, so they need to look at depth charts. A lot of that does not shake out until after the bowl games in Jan. The elite kids also have more options and may look to see who gets the best class, which in turn puts them on the better team for their time.

But really, I think it boils down to the elite kids get absolutely pummeled with recruiting. They have hundreds to thousands bits of correspondence. From letters to text messages to calls to in home visits with coaches. On the visits with coaches, many the coaches try to schedule as late in the process as possible to try and get the last word.


Of course, many times it's just kids and their family wanting to milk the process as much as possible. But with all of the effort they have to put in to get to that point...I say let them enjoy the moment.