National Signing Day 2016

[T Town Tommy]

His coaching style was good enough to put Georgia in the top 10 in scoring defense 3 of his 4 years there, two of those in the Top 5. He's a plenty good enough coach, so when does it become a player issue?

I can see it both ways... is it player issue or player development issues? Either way, the defense has to continue to improve for the Irish to take the next step IMO.

 

[arrowryan]

If this is the case, should 10 wins be a disappointment from here on out? If 9 is the worst we should be doing with our talent, is ten wins now a "meh" season? I haven't really been able to answer this question myself.

With this offense and the coaches on offense, I think 9 wins should be our floor

 

[greyhammer90]

With this offense and the coaches on offense, I think 9 wins should be our floor

Ok, but if that's the case how does a ten win season strike you? Is it merely acceptable "good work old bean"? Or is it actually disappointing because it's only barely about what our acceptable floor is?

 

[kmoose]

10 wins is HARD. I don't think you can call a ten win season a bust, ever. And I don't think you can expect 10 win seasons every year, either.

 

[greyhammer90]

10 wins is HARD. I don't think you can call a ten win season a bust, ever. And I don't think you can expect 10 win seasons every year, either.

I agree with this too. It's more an issue of testing the natural conclusions of my own logic.

If, by my logic, 9 wins should be the floor of the program from this point on (barring truly down seasons where a particular recruiting class stumble/injuries hurt us). Then it stands to reason that 10 wins shouldn't be particularly impressive anymore. But that seems pretty dumb because, like you said, 10 wins is hard.

 

[NDdomer2]

Of the 8 playoff teams over the past two seasons, Oregon, Oklahoma, and MSU have recruited "worse" than ND... Bama, FSU, and Ohio State are better... and Clemson has been right around what ND does, but a bit better. So we're recruiting at a level that should put us right in the mix of what it takes to be a playoff team. From that point forward, you have to get lucky.

This is some of the most truth I've read in a while.

I will add that Oregon Oklahoma and msu have had high quality teams for minimum of last 5 years so they make sense being in the mix at least 1 time.

You mention getting lucky, some of that is scheduling too. Our schedule this upcoming year's is much more favorable than last. And hopefully half our schedule doesn't play us after their bye week!

 

[connor_in]

Right, but that entire argument is bullsh*t from the start. Nobody is really winning titles but Bama over the past 7 years. FSU, Ohio State, Auburn are all gigantic flukes where the laws of probability beat Alabama under ideal circumstances. The title either ends up in Tuscaloosa, or someone goes through Alabama to get it.

FSU - had two #1 style classes before their title, a #1 QB, and got gifted not having to play Bama because of a truly insane/miracle loss by the Tide on that 109 yard missed FG return by Auburn.

Ohio State - completely changed their offense heading into their final games of the season, caught Bama being cocky and unprepared. Pretty much the only time that has ever happened in college football. Also, Blake Sims threw 3 INTs in the game... two of them soul crushing big plays worth a combined 14 points.

Auburn - Alabama was running away with the game... absolutely blowing the doors off Auburn... and then Mark Ingram fumbled. Alabama would've been up 31 nothing and not looked back if he doesn't fumble. Cam Newton then leads a massive comeback from down 24 points to win by 1. Also, that was the worst Bama team of that era.

So two of the three non-Bama titles are thanks to Iron Bowl flukes. The other Alabama actually got beat by a perfect storm. It would make sense to look at teams "winning" titles if it was more than 4 total teams. But because it isn't, we should consider what it takes to COMPETE for a title and make the playoffs.

Of the 8 playoff teams over the past two seasons, Oregon, Oklahoma, and MSU have recruited "worse" than ND... Bama, FSU, and Ohio State are better... and Clemson has been right around what ND does, but a bit better. So we're recruiting at a level that should put us right in the mix of what it takes to be a playoff team. From that point forward, you have to get lucky.

 

[NDdomer2]

Ok, but if that's the case how does a ten win season strike you? Is it merely acceptable "good work old bean"? Or is it actually disappointing because it's only barely about what our acceptable floor is?

I think ten wins means we lost some close games and maybe missing 1 piece/play from special.

As others noted 10 wins is not easy and winning it all takes some luck.

I'd love 10 every year.

 

[irishff1014]

His coaching style was good enough to put Georgia in the top 10 in scoring defense 3 of his 4 years there, two of those in the Top 5. He's a plenty good enough coach, so when does it become a player issue?

I would bet that we could only get 40% of the kids that UGA gets. Not to mention he was the DC there from 01-04. The game has changed some since then. And if year he can't get it together in year 3 then Kelly has no choice but to get rid of him. And this is my pet peeve if you are going to coach college you better get your ass out their and recruit.

 

[Fbolt]

BK went out of his way to state that the D was transitioning this past season and that the unit should/will be stocked with the right players moving forward. Your voices have been heard.

 

[NDgradstudent]

Right, but that entire argument is bullsh*t from the start. Nobody is really winning titles but Bama over the past 7 years. FSU, Ohio State, Auburn are all gigantic flukes where the laws of probability beat Alabama under ideal circumstances. The title either ends up in Tuscaloosa, or someone goes through Alabama to get it.

[...]

So two of the three non-Bama titles are thanks to Iron Bowl flukes. The other Alabama actually got beat by a perfect storm. It would make sense to look at teams "winning" titles if it was more than 4 total teams. But because it isn't, we should consider what it takes to COMPETE for a title and make the playoffs.

Of the 8 playoff teams over the past two seasons, Oregon, Oklahoma, and MSU have recruited "worse" than ND... Bama, FSU, and Ohio State are better... and Clemson has been right around what ND does, but a bit better. So we're recruiting at a level that should put us right in the mix of what it takes to be a playoff team. From that point forward, you have to get lucky.

The data I mentioned goes back to 2003, so it holds long before the Bama dynasty started. It is more than four total teams, too (it includes LSU, Texas, USC, Bama, Florida, Auburn, FSU, and Ohio State, and of course there are different versions of several of them in that time span).

What they all have in common, as I said, is that one of ESPN/247/Rivals rated at least one of the their classes in the four years prior to their title among the top 4 classes in the nation. ND is in that category now because of the 2013 class. Of course this is not a sufficient condition for winning the title, but it has in fact been necessary since 2003 (and probably further back, but I can't find that data as easily).

As for looking at winning titles, OSU was able to beat Bama where neither we nor MSU could. Even if they had lost that game, it was competitive. You don't think there is more to that than luck?

 

[ThePiombino]

Without Demetris Robertson, this class is really average, especially considering we had 10 wins. It's currently #15 on 247.

I think you're confused about what "average" means. #15 puts us in top-12% in FBS. 12% is not elite, but far from average.

 

[Irishman77]

BK went out of his way to state that the D was transitioning this past season and that the unit should/will be stocked with the right players moving forward. Your voices have been heard.

Ha! Listen to BVG speak too these players. Listen to interviews when players are asked about which coach has had the biggest impact.

Only thing that should be transitioning is BVG .

 

[irishff1014]

Ha! Listen to BVG speak too these players. Listen to interviews when players are asked about which coach has had the biggest impact.

Only thing that should be transitioning is BVG .

His voice drives me crazy.

 

[irishff1014]

I think ten wins means we lost some close games and maybe missing 1 piece/play from special.

As others noted 10 wins is not easy and winning it all takes some luck.

I'd love 10 every year.

10 would be a good number to strive for. Undefeated in unrealistic. With our Schedule most season 11 is going to be really tough. But if we want to get in the playoff s and have a shot at even trying for another national championship 10-11 have to be the goal.

 

[Irish Insanity]

If this is the case, should 10 wins be a disappointment from here on out? If 9 is the worst we should be doing with our talent, is ten wins now a "meh" season? I haven't really been able to answer this question myself.

Yes

 

[Guest]

10 wins is hard but when you are a major program with consistently good recruiting classes, it is a lot easier.

Expectations get inflated at ND because of the past tradition. The situation is different now and going to be that much harder for ND to ever win another championship.

However, if we keep recruiting like we do and have the coaching staff that we do (possibly sans BVG), then expecting 10 wins every season isn't quite as irrational as some people believe. It may not happen every year but there is no reason to accept consistent 8 win seasons either.

 

[IrishLion]

Yes

Gotta disagree. 10 wins isn't disappointing, considering the stability issues this program has had. As Kmoose said earlier, it is HARD to get to 10 wins. 10 wins doesn't happen just by having enough talent. 10 wins also requires some good fortune on the field and favorable luck in terms of injuries.

IF you can win 10 per year, you are doing something right. And if you win 10 per year, your recruiting is going to see the benefit of that. And every few years, with a little luck and a healthy squad, a team that wins 10 regularly can win 11, 12, maybe even 13 or 14.

9 wins would be ehhh. 10 wins would be good/great depending on the roster (veteran team or reloading year?). 11 or 12 wins would be fantastic.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Yes

10 is meh?

Lol

 

[gkIrish]

Put the question differently. Would you accept a 10-2 regular season every year for the next 5 years? Nothing worse, nothing better.

I would not. I want to make the playoffs.

 

[pumpdog20]

Gotta disagree. 10 wins isn't disappointing, considering the stability issues this program has had. As Kmoose said earlier, it is HARD to get to 10 wins. 10 wins doesn't happen just by having enough talent. 10 wins also requires some good fortune on the field and favorable luck in terms of injuries.

IF you can win 10 per year, you are doing something right. And if you win 10 per year, your recruiting is going to see the benefit of that. And every few years, with a little luck and a healthy squad, a team that wins 10 regularly can win 11, 12, maybe even 13 or 14.

9 wins would be ehhh. 10 wins would be good/great depending on the roster (veteran team or reloading year?). 11 or 12 wins would be fantastic.

I disagree with this, we just won 10 games with about the worst luck/injuries possible. I think that means we're close to having an elite total roster or are already there. With what BK appears to be building we should be expecting 10 or more wins a year from here on out.

 

[IrishLion]

Put the question differently. Would you accept a 10-2 regular season every year for the next 5 years? Nothing worse, nothing better.

I would not. I want to make the playoffs.

I wouldn't be happy about it. Of course I want to see ND in the playoffs. But your scenario is far different than thinking 10 wins is "meh" lol.

Winning 10 per year should be valued, because it will put the team in a position to rise above that every few years.

 

[ShakeDown]

I was on campus for 2007... So the fact that we are even debating whether a 10 win season is a meh, good or great season tells me all I need to know about where our program is.

Good better best, never ever rest, till the good is better and the better is best.

 

[IrishLion]

I disagree with this, we just won 10 games with about the worst luck/injuries possible. I think that means we're close to having an elite total roster or are already there. With what BK appears to be building we should be expecting 10 or more wins a year from here on out.

The injuries were bad, but the schedule turned out to be extremely favorable. I'd say the "good fortune" balanced out, and that it went a step further when it turned out that Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer were ready to play.

I was extremely pleased with this season, all things considered. If the team would have been healthy, maybe they win 11 and sneak into the playoffs (though I think, in the end, Oklahoma would have still been ahead of ND).

And that's the whole point here. If you're going to be disappointed with 10 wins and a major bowl every year, that means you are going to be disappointed with anything less than a playoff appearance every year. Is that realistic?

 

[Booslum31]

The injuries were bad, but the schedule turned out to be extremely favorable. I'd say the "good fortune" balanced out, and that it went a step further when it turned out that Josh Adams and Deshone Kizer were ready to play.

I was extremely pleased with this season, all things considered. If the team would have been healthy, maybe they win 11 and sneak into the playoffs (though I think, in the end, Oklahoma would have still been ahead of ND).

And that's the whole point here. If you're going to be disappointed with 10 wins and a major bowl every year, that means you are going to be disappointed with anything less than a playoff appearance every year. Is that realistic?

Agree. I was thrilled that we got to 10 wins. Really thought things were going to collapse when TF and MZ went down...not to mention JJ and DT. Our schedule next year seems to be optimal to make a run.

Coach 'em up Kelly! Oh...and stay healthy!

 

[NDohio]

It's really unfortunate but the term BK uses for recruiting, 'shopping in a different aisle' can also be used when it comes to our scheduling. Winning ten games in college football is difficult. Winning ten games in a power five conference takes good-to-great recruiting classes, quality coaching, and some luck. Winning ten games while playing against the top teams of multiple power five conferences is almost beyond comprehension. I agree 9 wins should be the floor, but ten wins has to be considered a successful season.

We could be a perennial playoff team if we were in the ACC Coastal Division...

 

[Irish_Mickey]

I think 9 wins should be the floor going forward and the goal should be, at a minimum, getting TO the playoffs each year. Some on here might be disappointed with a top 12-15 class, but think about it...how many of the teams above us in the recruiting rankings the last few years do we routinely play? USC, that's it (with FSU/Clemson every few years). While getting consistent #12 classes might rear its ugly head when playing against the Bama's and OSU's with their consistent top 3 classes, we should at least be able to put ourselves in the playoff conversation each year.

Also, Mike Farrell said this about our class: "Notre Dame did well despite few fireworks down the stretch and if they call pull in Demetris Robertson, it will surge into the top 10 eventually. But Robertson, who didn’t sign on Wednesday, could also boost UGA’s class or perhaps push ‘Bama ahead even further."

After dealing with the Deontay, Anal-zone and Eddie V circuses of years past,I was pleased to have a peaceful signing day with no drama or decommitments. The lack of decommitments in this class was amazing considering we some key flips ourselves:
- S. Perry (Florida)
- K. Kareem (Bama/MSU)
- Daelin (USC)
- Pride (VT)

 

[TheChosen1]

Put the question differently. Would you accept a 10-2 regular season every year for the next 5 years? Nothing worse, nothing better.

I would not. I want to make the playoffs.

The fact you are asking that question shows how much credit Brian Kelly deserves.

 

[koonja]

Looking forward, I'd never take the '5 straight seasons of 10-2' if it was offered. But if that blindly happened and I looked back on the 5 years, I'd certainly not call it disappointing.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Gotta disagree. 10 wins isn't disappointing, considering the stability issues this program has had. As Kmoose said earlier, it is HARD to get to 10 wins. 10 wins doesn't happen just by having enough talent. 10 wins also requires some good fortune on the field and favorable luck in terms of injuries.

IF you can win 10 per year, you are doing something right. And if you win 10 per year, your recruiting is going to see the benefit of that. And every few years, with a little luck and a healthy squad, a team that wins 10 regularly can win 11, 12, maybe even 13 or 14.

9 wins would be ehhh. 10 wins would be good/great depending on the roster (veteran team or reloading year?). 11 or 12 wins would be fantastic.

Anything less than 10 and BKs record speaks for itself. And IMO, not in a good way.

10 is meh?

Lol

Yes

Put the question differently. Would you accept a 10-2 regular season every year for the next 5 years? Nothing worse, nothing better.

I would not. I want to make the playoffs.

Exactly.