Afghan POW Freed After Five Years

[Wild Bill]

Show me one instance of in-person voter fraud that will be prevented when those casting votes have to show an ID.

My Fall From Grace: City Hall To Prison Walls: James J. Laski Jr.: 9781434362797: Amazon.com: Books

Read all about it.

 

[GoIrish41]

Just to point something out, during W's second term in office you heard a lot about his dropping or low approval ratings and various analysis as to what it meant and also how it was bad for his party in the coming elections. So apparently late second term ratings mean something to somepeople sometimes, yes?

At about this time in W'sadministration, his ratings were exceptionally low -- like low 30s -- and it was just becomiing apparent that he deceived the public about going to war, which didn't help his cause at all. It also didn't help those who stuck by their guns in supporting him when it was clear there was deceit. Obama was in a very, very strong position to win because he was one of the few who voted against going to war. He was the foil to W's blundering, aggressive foreign policy and used it as a springboard to win the presidency. So, yes mid-term ratings matter, but only to the extent that they are a reflection to facts that are in play at the time.

 

[T Town Tommy]

So one case ... in which the voter was arrested. Sounds like a serious nationwide problem.

What does affording cable TV, smartphone, and nice cars have to do with acquiring a voter ID? For the record, I don't really have a problem with voter ID laws per se. I think in the past the timing of these laws becoming a major issue was BS. A couple of months before the election these laws got introduced. If passed then, it would mean tons of people would be forced all at once to stand in line to get a government-issued ID. Some of those people would become frustrated and say f it. Some might not do it out of protest. Some might have difficulty getting to the ID issue facility. In any case, it is adding a level of frustration and inconvenience for people to exercise their constitutional right to vote. All to fix a problem that does not exist on any meaninful scale anywhere in the country.

I'm more concerned with laws that limit early voting hours of operation or reduce polling places for early voting altogether. I'm particularly concerned when this is done in neighborhoods with a high percentage of minority voters, and not in neighborhoods that have fewer minirities.

41...

you can google all the accounts of documented voter fraud just as easy as I can. That topic is really not too debateable. Many instances of this. To say there is not is simply not true.

Voter IDs...

Been trying for years to get legislation passed on this. Not two or three months before an election. I have to show ID when I vote. Everyone should. The examples I gave have no relation to the argument why people don't have IDs to vote. But what it does show is that the majority use the excuse that they can't get anywhere to get the ID. That's typically not the case. And any responsible person wanting to vote would have no issue with showing an ID. No cost to them other than the time that a very,very few would spend getting an ID. So... the real reason for not wanting voter ID.... again pretty easy. I know it, you know it, and everyone that is against it knows it.

Here is one for you. You can do the rest.

Voter Fraud: We’ve Got Proof It’s Easy | National Review Online

I say pass laws to extend voting hours. Have no problem with that. Just bring your ID with you and vote the way you want.

 

[T Town Tommy]

How about the lady who committed voter fraud just to prove how easy it was. She was caught. So...yeah...

Woman Tries to Prove It's Easy to Commit Voter Fraud - Gets Arrested for Voter Fraud

Oh My: Audit Finds Evidence of Widespread Voter Fraud in North Carolina - Guy Benson

Here ya go...

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

except you were referring to the 2014 election and saying it would be like 2010. if that is what you expect in the off-year election this year, you might want to prepare for disappointment.

You're playing the Bill Clinton card. Deny till ya die haha. See you in November

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You're playing the Bill Clinton card. Deny till ya die haha. See you in November

Yeah, the right-wing really nailed their projections last election.

It'll be interesting. The senate will be close. The house probably won't change much. Just my guess.

 

[GoIrish41]

41...

you can google all the accounts of documented voter fraud just as easy as I can. That topic is really not too debateable. Many instances of this. To say there is not is simply not true.

Voter IDs...

Been trying for years to get legislation passed on this. Not two or three months before an election. I have to show ID when I vote. Everyone should. The examples I gave have no relation to the argument why people don't have IDs to vote. But what it does show is that the majority use the excuse that they can't get anywhere to get the ID. That's typically not the case. And any responsible person wanting to vote would have no issue with showing an ID. No cost to them other than the time that a very,very few would spend getting an ID. So... the real reason for not wanting voter ID.... again pretty easy. I know it, you know it, and everyone that is against it knows it.

Here is one for you. You can do the rest.

Voter Fraud: We’ve Got Proof It’s Easy | National Review Online

I say pass laws to extend voting hours. Have no problem with that. Just bring your ID with you and vote the way you want.

I live in Pennsylvania, which, at one time not too long ago was the epicenter for this debate. During the last election, I don't think a lot of people here were too put off that they had to show "an" ID, the issue was the forms of identification required to prove you were who you said you were. For example, students who wanted to vote at the locations where they wen't to college, were not permitted to use their (in many cases) state issued student ID as proof that they lived in the area where they wished to vote. Similarly, people without a drivers licence (many who live within cities don't have a licence because they don't have a car and have no need of one) had to have an original stamped birth certificate (I'm almost 50, and I don't think I have an original stamped copy of my birth certificate or at least if I do, I haven't seen it in years) or a passport (what are the chances that a person without a drivers licence has a passport?). They kept people from using IDs that would be convenient for them and made them more difficult than they needed to be to obtain. Furthermore, they did it just months before the election. If you went onto the state Web site, it gave you inaccurate information about the law even after the courts blocked it. In other words, they were trying to convince people who were calling in to get information about how to comply with the law that they had missed the deadline. They ran billboards warning people that breaking the law was against the law (even though the courts had blocked the law from taking affect). As I said, I'm not against voter ID laws if they are reasonable, but in the case of Pennsylvania their attempts were clearly to block voters from participating in the electoral process. When they tried to make the "voter fraud" argument in court, the court ruled that they could not show a single case in which voter fraud had occurred.

 

[RDU Irish]

I've witnessed voter fraud personally. Handing cigarettes to folks as they got back on the tour bus at the Milwaukee poll in 2000. No idea where the bus came from but damn if it wasn't an interesting crew getting off. I think Milwaukee had more votes cast than registered voters that year. "Smokes for Votes" baby!

Democrat Supporter Fined For 'Smokes For Votes'

Then there was the guy from Illinois that voted in IL and WI, had a lake house in Wisconsin and claims he forgot he voted earlier that day in Chicago before coming up to Wisconsin to vote again the same day. Can't find anything on Google now but it was n the local papers then. Mea Culpa and he walks free with his votes lost in the sea of free and fair elections.

 

[RDU Irish]

I thought the PA voter issues were all related to Black Panthers pacing with billy clubs outside polls? Why prosecute that type of behavior anyway?

 

[GoIrish41]

You're playing the Bill Clinton card. Deny till ya die haha. See you in November

Leave it to the GOP to gloat before the vote. I'm saying it ain't as dire for the Dems as you are making it out to be, and a lot can happen between now and the election. These polls you seem to be hanging your hat on are only moments in time. GOP has a lot of time to say a lot of stupid things between now and the election to appeal to their base.

 

[GoIrish41]

I thought the PA voter issues were all related to Black Panthers pacing with billy clubs outside polls? Why prosecute that type of behavior anyway?

It is amazing to me that you are comparing two black guys standing in a public place on election day -- breaking no laws -- to an attempt for PA Republican lawmakers to enact institutional voter supression in a swing state that very well may been the difference in the election. But you are probably right, the scary black guys were the problem

 

[notredomer23]

It is amazing to me that you are comparing two black guys standing in a public place on election day -- breaking no laws -- to an attempt for PA Republican lawmakers to enact institutional voter supression in a swing state that very well may been the difference in the election. But you are probably right, the scary black guys were the problem

Hate to just do a hit and run post since I will be gone the rest the day, but your train of thought here is absolutely ridiculous. So by this logic, burning a cross in a front yard since its just intimidation is okay?

 

[GoIrish41]

Hate to just do a hit and run post since I will be gone the rest the day, but your train of thought here is absolutely ridiculous. So by this logic, burning a cross in a front yard since its just intimidation is okay?

That isn't what they did. They just stood there. Burning a crosw in someone's yard is illegal and a hate crime . This wasn't that.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That isn't what they did. They just stood there. Burning a crosw in someone's yard is illegal and a hate crime . This wasn't that.

Reps, GoIrish! To have the patience to explain the difference between two "Black Panthers" standing outside a voting booth and someone lighting a cross in your front yard! I would give up. Rocks cannot retain, even what they learn.

 

[NDFan4Life]

It is amazing to me that you are comparing two black guys standing in a public place on election day -- breaking no laws -- to an attempt for PA Republican lawmakers to enact institutional voter supression in a swing state that very well may been the difference in the election. But you are probably right, the scary black guys were the problem

Here's a hypothetical for you:

What if it were 2 Klansmen, or 2 Neo-Nazis, or 2 Skinheads standing in front of a polling place?

Would you consider that intimidation?

 

[GoIrish41]

Here's a hypothetical for you:

What if it were 2 Klansmen, or 2 Neo-Nazis, or 2 Skinheads standing in front of a polling place?

Would you consider that intimidation?

Not if they were just standing there.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Here's a hypothetical for you:

What if it were 2 Klansmen, or 2 Neo-Nazis, or 2 Skinheads standing in front of a polling place?

Would you consider that intimidation?

What the fuck is the problem? I wouldn't feel intimidated if two policemen were standing there either.


Oh wait a minute, are the Klansmen, Neo-Nazis, or Skinheads, black? Cause if they are, that is a whole different thing!

 

[irishog77]

What plausible reason does anybody have to be standing outside a voting precinct with baseball bats, for a prolonged period of time, regardless of their color or appearance?

In the liberal mindset, this is not disenfranchising a potential voter, but an identification is. Got it.

 

[GoIrish41]

What plausible reason does anybody have to be standing outside a voting precinct with baseball bats, for a prolonged period of time, regardless of their color or appearance?

In the liberal mindset, this is not disenfranchising a potential voter, but an identification is. Got it.

You know the black panthers were at a polling place in a black neighborhood right. Do you think they were trying to get people not to vote for ObAama?

 

[irishog77]

You know the black panthers were at a polling place in a black neighborhood right. Do you think they were trying to get people not to vote for ObAama?

I didn't ask what they weren't doing, I asked what they were doing.

Again, what's the plausible reasoning for standing outside a voting precinct with baseball bats for a prolonged period of time? How is that not disenfranchising a potential voter, but requiring an identification is?


I tried to exclude race from the discussion in my previous comment, but yet you want to keep talking about black people. Newsflash-- black people are allowed not to vote for obama. Some even did not.

 

[NDFan4Life]

Not if they were just standing there.

I believe it all hinges on perception.

While you may not feel intimidated, wouldn't it be possible that others may feel differently?

I despise going to polling places. I hate having to deal with the politicians and their supporters loitering about and handing out pamphlets and other disposable material. I know there are laws that prohibit such actions in certain states within say 25 or 50 feet from the entrance, but I believe that the distance should be a whole lot more.

Say, 250 miles.

 

[GoIrish41]

I didn't ask what they weren't doing, I asked what they were doing.

Again, what's the plausible reasoning for standing outside a voting precinct with baseball bats for a prolonged period of time? How is that not disenfranchising a potential voter, but requiring an identification is?


I tried to exclude race from the discussion in my previous comment, but yet you want to keep talking about black people. Newsflash-- black people are allowed not to vote for obama. Some even did not.

Who cares what they were doing if they were not breaking any laws? What they were not doing is following people into the voting booth and forcing people to vote their way.

 

[GoIrish41]

I believe it all hinges on perception.

While you may not feel intimidated, wouldn't it be possible that others may feel differently?

I despise going to polling places. I hate having to deal with the politicians and their supporters loitering about and handing out pamphlets and other disposable material. I know there are laws that prohibit such actions in certain states within say 25 or 50 feet from the entrance, but I believe that the distance should be a whole lot more.

Say, 250 miles.

Fair point. I'd also rather all the idiots not be there when i vote but if they aren't breaking any laws what do you do? I find ignoring the effective.

 

[NDFan4Life]

What say we get back on track with the Burgdahl situation?

Two words:

Manchurian candidate.

This should be fun.

 

[irishog77]

Who cares what they were doing if they were not breaking any laws? What they were not doing is following people into the voting booth and forcing people to vote their way.

So "not breaking any law" is the standard for disenfranchising voters? Neither is requiring an identification to vote. But yet you don't like that one.


In the 2000 presidential election, I did witness the democratic party bus "voters" in from the state mental and health facility in Tennessee, even entering into the booth to "assist" them in voting. I wonder which way they voted, particularly the voters that were unable to speak, move, or give any other indication of which candidate they preferred?

 

[GoIrish41]

So "not breaking any law" is the standard for disenfranchising voters? Neither is requiring an identification to vote. But yet you don't like that one.


In the 2000 presidential election, I did witness the democratic party bus "voters" in from the state mental and health facility in Tennessee, even entering into the booth to "assist" them in voting. I wonder which way they voted, particularly the voters that were unable to speak, move, or give any other indication of which candidate they preferred?

Okay hre are some possibilities:

Exercising their Constitutional right to free speech like all of the clean coal freaks who were also there handing out their pamphlets.

Excercising their Constitutional right to assembly like reps from the political parties who were there doing the same.

Trying to get a pick-up game of baseball started (they had bats but no ball). If your candidate wants to hassel two guys standing in a public place who are breaking no laws I pray he or she doesn't win.

 

[irishog77]

Okay hre are some possibilities:

Exercising their Constitutional right to free speech like all of the clean coal freaks who were also there handing out their pamphlets.

Excercising their Constitutional right to assembly like reps from the political parties who were there doing the same.

Trying to get a pick-up game of baseball started (they had bats but no ball). If your candidate wants to hassel two guys standing in a public place who are breaking no laws I pray he or she doesn't win.

Sure. Those are all possibilities.

As is trying to intimidate voters.

Taking everything into account, I'd say (and common sense would say) intimidation is more likely than anything you listed.

I agree with you though-- they weren't necessarily breaking the law.

My main point is that you are very anti-voter ID laws (which are legal), but backing these guys up. If you are against voter disenfranchisement, why are you not against all things that could persuade or prohibit a potential voter from voting?

 

[GoIrish41]

Sure. Those are all possibilities.

As is trying to intimidate voters.

Taking everything into account, I'd say (and common sense would say) intimidation is more likely than anything you listed.

I agree with you though-- they weren't necessarily breaking the law.

My main point is that you are very anti-voter ID laws (which are legal), but backing these guys up. If you are against voter disenfranchisement, why are you not against all things that could persuade or prohibit a potential voter from voting?

Do you think the white guy and with a shirt, tie and khakis trying to convince people that without coal the economy will collapse was trying to intimidate voters?

 

[irishog77]

Do you think the white guy and with a shirt, tie and khakis trying to convince people that without coal the economy will collapse was trying to intimidate voters?

I do if he was flaunting a baseball bat in front of them while doing so.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Leave it to the GOP to gloat before the vote. I'm saying it ain't as dire for the Dems as you are making it out to be, and a lot can happen between now and the election. These polls you seem to be hanging your hat on are only moments in time. GOP has a lot of time to say a lot of stupid things between now and the election to appeal to their base.

Nothing is dire anymore as long as obama has his pen and a phone