Marriage

[Ndaccountant]

Good luck with your decision. My wife put her career on hold for 11 years to stay at home. It definitely puts a financial strain on the household, but for us, we wouldn't trade the experiences our kids had for any of those shiny things. We always found a way to pay for dance lessons, sports seasons, music lessons, vacations, etc.

The number one piece of advice I would give to you and your wife is to make sure she finds a group of other stay-at-home moms. The lack of adult interaction that can come with being a stay-at-home mom was my wife's biggest struggle. Once she found a group of moms to hang out with, it made a world of difference.

I can't stand Facebook (I refuse to be on it) but it does come in handy here. My wife found these mom groups on there with schedules of locations to meet up daily. It really helped her with her transition.

 

[NDohio]

I can't stand Facebook (I refuse to be on it) but it does come in handy here. My wife found these mom groups on there with schedules of locations to meet up daily. It really helped her with her transition.

Good point - FB wasn't around during that time for us. You youngsters have it so much easier than we did.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Best of luck.

My started part time, but that only for a short time. It's a very personal decision for the family and for her. I have a had probably half a dozen women I worked with come back from maternity only to leave the company to stay at home.

We've heard similar anecdotes so we are planning tentatively to allow maximum flexibility after we've experienced the family dynamic.

FWIW, I think that's a good plan, going part time for a bit to see how it goes. In my experience, as you say, women react to motherhood in different ways. I have sometimes seen women have kids and decide that they really want to devote themselves fully to raising their family and children, even if they were previously gung ho about their careers (that's a dangerous stereotype, I know, but I have seen it happen, especially with teachers, who are already in the child development business anyway, so to speak). Other women feel such a strong sense of vocation in their chosen career that, despite the desire to be with their children all the time, which I think every mother has, they couldn't be happy not working. (My wife is one of these ... she is just incredibly passionate about her chosen field and believes she has almost a moral responsibility to provide good health care to her patients, who might not be able to get it otherwise.) If your wife isn't sure which one she is, it would be great to have the chance to try both, in a way. I agree with ndaccountant that it's a personal decision every woman and family has to make for her/itself. And then you'll get a chance to see how the economics are working out, too.

We have friends and family who've been going through what you described. One mother is torn, she worked hard for her career and she goes back and forth between wanting to work and wanting to be at home full time. My sister-in-law was a school teacher and hasn't gone back since one semester after her first son. She now has two and she loves being home.

Good luck with your decision. My wife put her career on hold for 11 years to stay at home. It definitely puts a financial strain on the household, but for us, we wouldn't trade the experiences our kids had for any of those shiny things. We always found a way to pay for dance lessons, sports seasons, music lessons, vacations, etc.

The number one piece of advice I would give to you and your wife is to make sure she finds a group of other stay-at-home moms. The lack of adult interaction that can come with being a stay-at-home mom was my wife's biggest struggle. Once she found a group of moms to hang out with, it made a world of difference.

This is our biggest dilemma right now. We are only renting as we couldn't decide where we wanted to live. We have two other couples who've discussed buying some land and building next to one another. The one couple has 3 sons and a daughter on the way, he's finishing residency and she stays at home most of the time. They plan to homeschool with a group of families and this has a certain appeal, especially because he'd be covering Latin and Greek tutors!

We know it's important to have community built in wherever we end up and however we decide to proceed as a family. It's just very hard to plan for something that everyone says changes your life so drastically (children).

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

 

[RDU Irish]

Married for 14 years, 24 when we tied the knot. We are both horribly flawed individuals but damn if we don't compliment each other pretty well. Had our fair share of tough times but we have managed to come out stronger rather than letting it rip us apart.

 

[Emcee77]

We know it's important to have community built in wherever we end up and however we decide to proceed as a family. It's just very hard to plan for something that everyone says changes your life so drastically (children).

Thanks for all of the suggestions.

Hit the nail on the head there. It takes a village, as they say.

 

[RDU Irish]

Stay at home thing is a big deal. I would love for my wife to stay home for half a dozen years but her licensing as a Nurse Practitioner makes it damn near impossible to go without work for more than two years. Not sure she has the temperament for it either.

Financially, her working 3 days pretty much covers the expenses of her working (daycare, taxes, gas, etc). Add in the opportunity cost to my job and we are probably close losing money for her to work. She is often stuck working 10-14 hour days (never know, gotta see all the patients) while she is paid for 8 hours. We personally better now than when she was "full" time five days a week (which was usually 50-60 hours) but financially it doesn't add up as well since daycare is still 5 days a week due to her variable schedule.

While her career is more assembly line work of churning out patients, someone building a career within a company really loses a ton of lifetime earning potential if they take significant time off or go part time. It is easy when you are 30 to look at a wife staying home with kids and see it pay for itself relative to daycare and other expenses, plenty to do as well. However, what is the plan for when all the kids are in school? I see a lot of moms getting pretty damn bored during the school year and regretful of throwing away a career they really can't get back into 10 years later. Picking up some retail job to stay busy and be a bit productive isn't very fulfilling if you are previously trained as a professional of some sort. A lot easier to transition to part time from a position in which you are currently full time versus finding a new part time job.

The dependency on a primary bread earner is also a completely different dynamic than that of a two income household where either partner has potential to support themselves.

 

[Emcee77]

While her career is more assembly line work of churning out patients, someone building a career within a company really loses a ton of lifetime earning potential if they take significant time off or go part time. It is easy when you are 30 to look at a wife staying home with kids and see it pay for itself relative to daycare and other expenses, plenty to do as well. However, what is the plan for when all the kids are in school? I see a lot of moms getting pretty damn bored during the school year and regretful of throwing away a career they really can't get back into 10 years later. Picking up some retail job to stay busy and be a bit productive isn't very fulfilling if you are previously trained as a professional of some sort. A lot easier to transition to part time from a position in which you are currently full time versus finding a new part time job.

The dependency on a primary bread earner is also a completely different dynamic than that of a two income household where either partner has potential to support themselves.

That's a good point and something SAHMs need to think about. My sister is really struggling with this now. As her kids have gotten older and started school she's started to think about getting into the workforce, and she's found that it is essentially impossible at this point for her to find fulfilling, rewarding work. The realization that staying home with her kids for 7 years has made her college degree essentially worthless (overstating it a bit, but you get what I'm saying) was really, really difficult for her.

 

[RDU Irish]

Aren't overstating it by much. My wife has four degrees. She stays home for 7 years and she would have to put in a lot of school work to get back into any level of nursing, let alone a mid level provider.

For others, it is more a restart button on finding a career and starting at the bottom. The degree is still the price of admission. Problem being, employers don't want to risk it on someone who quit once before (horrible mentality but it exists). Then you have the family demands that still exist. You really need a 6 hour job so you can still be there to do extra curriculars, cook, clean, etc. Very difficult to find careers that will accommodate.

If I could come up with a business model that harnessed the capabilities of SAHMs transitioning back to work with solid 9AM - 2PM schedules I would have a pretty much unlimited supply of highly skilled employees at my disposal. But then it would have to be a 9 month job since summer would derail my work flow.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Stay at home thing is a big deal. I would love for my wife to stay home for half a dozen years but her licensing as a Nurse Practitioner makes it damn near impossible to go without work for more than two years. Not sure she has the temperament for it either.

Financially, her working 3 days pretty much covers the expenses of her working (daycare, taxes, gas, etc). Add in the opportunity cost to my job and we are probably close losing money for her to work. She is often stuck working 10-14 hour days (never know, gotta see all the patients) while she is paid for 8 hours. We personally better now than when she was "full" time five days a week (which was usually 50-60 hours) but financially it doesn't add up as well since daycare is still 5 days a week due to her variable schedule.

While her career is more assembly line work of churning out patients, someone building a career within a company really loses a ton of lifetime earning potential if they take significant time off or go part time. It is easy when you are 30 to look at a wife staying home with kids and see it pay for itself relative to daycare and other expenses, plenty to do as well. However, what is the plan for when all the kids are in school? I see a lot of moms getting pretty damn bored during the school year and regretful of throwing away a career they really can't get back into 10 years later. Picking up some retail job to stay busy and be a bit productive isn't very fulfilling if you are previously trained as a professional of some sort. A lot easier to transition to part time from a position in which you are currently full time versus finding a new part time job.

The dependency on a primary bread earner is also a completely different dynamic than that of a two income household where either partner has potential to support themselves.

Your wife can't keep her licensure active without practicing? And if it does expire, she's unable to reactivate it?

We are in a similar financial situation where we'll be clearing very little from my wife working 2 days/week due to healthcare premiums and childcare cost but ultimately the small amount of money she brings in can be left out of the equation so that we are able to make this decision based on her desires and fulfillment as both a mother and nurse.

What you bring up is the ultimate decision. Is it more important to earn more or is it more important to be with the kids for the limited time you have them? Throwing away a career seems harshly worded, but perhaps we should flip it. I wonder how many mothers regret throwing away their children's formative years for earning potential?

 

[wizards8507]

Stay at home thing is a big deal. I would love for my wife to stay home for half a dozen years but her licensing as a Nurse Practitioner makes it damn near impossible to go without work for more than two years. Not sure she has the temperament for it either.

Financially, her working 3 days pretty much covers the expenses of her working (daycare, taxes, gas, etc). Add in the opportunity cost to my job and we are probably close losing money for her to work. She is often stuck working 10-14 hour days (never know, gotta see all the patients) while she is paid for 8 hours. We personally better now than when she was "full" time five days a week (which was usually 50-60 hours) but financially it doesn't add up as well since daycare is still 5 days a week due to her variable schedule.

While her career is more assembly line work of churning out patients, someone building a career within a company really loses a ton of lifetime earning potential if they take significant time off or go part time. It is easy when you are 30 to look at a wife staying home with kids and see it pay for itself relative to daycare and other expenses, plenty to do as well. However, what is the plan for when all the kids are in school? I see a lot of moms getting pretty damn bored during the school year and regretful of throwing away a career they really can't get back into 10 years later. Picking up some retail job to stay busy and be a bit productive isn't very fulfilling if you are previously trained as a professional of some sort. A lot easier to transition to part time from a position in which you are currently full time versus finding a new part time job.

The dependency on a primary bread earner is also a completely different dynamic than that of a two income household where either partner has potential to support themselves.

That's a good point and something SAHMs need to think about. My sister is really struggling with this now. As her kids have gotten older and started school she's started to think about getting into the workforce, and she's found that it is essentially impossible at this point for her to find fulfilling, rewarding work. The realization that staying home with her kids for 7 years has made her college degree essentially worthless (overstating it a bit, but you get what I'm saying) was really, really difficult for her.

I think you're mixing a couple of different issues that need to be evaluated independently. The first issue consists of financial considerations like lost salary, daycare, gas, foregone promotions, etc. The other is the personal fulfillment / boredom when kids are in school or gone.

The financial decision can take many forms. If you rely on two incomes just two pay the bills, there's not much of a decision to be made. Both of you have to work. On the opposite end of the spectrum, if the husband makes more than enough to sustain your preferred lifestyle, you're not losing much in that department if the wife decides to stay home. The real "sticky" area is when the wife leaving the workforce would result in a significant reduction in lifestyle, especially if the lost salary is enough to go from "comfortable" to "barely getting by."

The personal fulfillment issue is really something separate that can take different forms once you have the financial side figured out. If your wife derives sense of self from a career and being a successful professional, then that's something she'll need to pursue regardless of its impact on the family finances. However, if she can find that same fulfillment somewhere other than a traditional career, the freedom of not working can actually increase her opportunities to do so. For example, we have no need for my wife to earn a paycheck, so she can fill her passion for working with animals by volunteering with shelters and rescue organizations. When you're not getting paid anyways, you can pretty much set your own schedule and work as much or as little as you want depending on what's going on with the kids.

 

[Kaneyoufeelit]

Hopefully you don't find this post too off-topic but each time this thread is bumped I read the title like this:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Sbqv3MwwVd8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




Mawidge is a dweam wiffin a dweam.

 

[RDU Irish]

Great points. It is easy to mix the issues but equally important for the prospective SAHM to face them openly and honestly.

Don't do it b/c you hate your boss and are running away from a bad work environment. Address the work conflict and/or find a new job. If you really hate your career, use the opportunity to take a break. You can do part time schooling to get trained in something else with a completion date around when the kids are in school.

Don't do it b/c you are lazy and don't want to work. The job you are trading for is plenty of work and probably more physically exhausting. If you expect full maid service, constantly eating out and tons of drop in day care while you play tennis all day you might want to have an open and honest conversation with your hubby first.

Don't expect your hubby to cover all financial concerns. You need to tackle the family budget and "make money" for the family by saving money on expenses. I see way too many SAHMs stress out the family by being oblivious to realistic financial solutions. Just as it is not fair to expect SAHM to do all the housework/chores/etc, it is not fair to expect the husband to magically solve all money problems.

 

[Emcee77]

The personal fulfillment issue is really something separate that can take different forms once you have the financial side figured out. If your wife derives sense of self from a career and being a successful professional, then that's something she'll need to pursue regardless of its impact on the family finances. However, if she can find that same fulfillment somewhere other than a traditional career, the freedom of not working can actually increase her opportunities to do so. For example, we have no need for my wife to earn a paycheck, so she can fill her passion for working with animals by volunteering with shelters and rescue organizations. When you're not getting paid anyways, you can pretty much set your own schedule and work as much or as little as you want depending on what's going on with the kids.

Right, it sounds like you guys have thought of this, and your wife won't have to "work" in a traditional job to pursue her interests, which is great. Just to be clear, I only meant to point out that a lot of SAHMs don't think about that time 7 or 8 years down the road when the kids will be in school and things will slow down, and they might be in for a shock when that time comes. You guys are obviously not in that category.

 

[NDohio]

Getting back into the workforce is definitely something to consider. My wife taught for 7 years, took off 11 years, and then attempted to get back into teaching. She subbed at a number of schools and the Principals at those school wanted to hire her but the school boards would not because they would "be hiring a new teacher at the 8th-year costs". It was beyond frustrating for her. She did eventually get into a district and all is good now.

Also, a huge positive for us at this stage of our life is we learned to live off one income. Now, with her working, it is like winning the lottery!

Ultimately, we found a way to make it work and now that my oldest is leaving for college, she truly appreciates all that time she spent with him when he was younger. I know people say it all the time, but it really does go by quickly. The short-term financial sacrifices we made were definitely worth it for us.

It's a tough decision and each situation is so completely different.

 

[wizards8507]

Also, a huge positive for us at this stage of our life is we learned to live off one income. Now, with her working, it is like winning the lottery!

That's a great point too. For anyone considering it, budget like your wife quit well before she actually DOES quit so you get comfortable with what that kind of budget feels like.

 

[RDU Irish]

I would argue the financial impact isn't nearly as bad as most make it out if they account for daycare costs and taxes.

If you have a relative watching your kids for free, look up the costs in your area so you appreciate the favor appropriately.

As for taxes, you need to factor FICA, marginal rates (not average) AND most difficult of all, phase outs for exemptions and credits. Last one is really sneaky and a real eye opener. For example, three kids phasing out of the child tax credit cost us $3000 one year, an extra 15% on the $20,000 of income it phases out.

I will save my lamenting over the disincentives for production built into our tax code for the Politics thread.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I would argue the financial impact isn't nearly as bad as most make it out if they account for daycare costs and taxes.

If you have a relative watching your kids for free, look up the costs in your area so you appreciate the favor appropriately.

As for taxes, you need to factor FICA, marginal rates (not average) AND most difficult of all, phase outs for exemptions and credits. Last one is really sneaky and a real eye opener. For example, three kids phasing out of the child tax credit cost us $3000 one year, an extra 15% on the $20,000 of income it phases out.

I will save my lamenting over the disincentives for production built into our tax code for the Politics thread.

These are very good points. We won't qualify for the child tax credit for the next 4.5 years (if my current contract continues) but this is something I'm indexing for later. I expect my career to sunset at a lower income than I'm currently making.

To be certain I understand, you are upset that we incentivize families or that we increase the tax burden for the highest producers? Or am I completely misreading your post

 

[Ndaccountant]

These are very good points. We won't qualify for the child tax credit for the next 4.5 years (if my current contract continues) but this is something I'm indexing for later. I expect my career to sunset at a lower income than I'm currently making.

To be certain I understand, you are upset that we incentivize families or that we increase the tax burden for the highest producers? Or am I completely misreading your post

I can't read his mind but I think it had more to do with the fact that the tax code can create situations that as you earn more, you actually earn less as tax credits phase out.

For example, a family friend got a raise, but it actually bumped the credits she was receiving down more than what she got in increased take home pay. Thus, she actually lost money by making more.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Aren't overstating it by much. My wife has four degrees. She stays home for 7 years and she would have to put in a lot of school work to get back into any level of nursing, let alone a mid level provider.

For others, it is more a restart button on finding a career and starting at the bottom. The degree is still the price of admission. Problem being, employers don't want to risk it on someone who quit once before (horrible mentality but it exists). Then you have the family demands that still exist. You really need a 6 hour job so you can still be there to do extra curriculars, cook, clean, etc. Very difficult to find careers that will accommodate.

If I could come up with a business model that harnessed the capabilities of SAHMs transitioning back to work with solid 9AM - 2PM schedules I would have a pretty much unlimited supply of highly skilled employees at my disposal. But then it would have to be a 9 month job since summer would derail my work flow.

No joke, I work in an office with just me (22 year old guy) and 18-19 moms. The owner has the office flexible because he realized he could get quality work for these women who probably couldn't get a job elsewhere. It's a great model, but there are plenty of drawbacks. It's a tax credit company, so most of them don't have nearly as flexible of hours during our busy season. Overall, it's worked out very well for the owner and his family, but if you're not a working mom, it's not such a great deal. If you ever come up with an idea, go for it, there's a large labor pool.

 

[ulukinatme]

Stay away from strippers...er...I mean exotic dancers....

Ha, can't speak for Dre, but theres a guy on ShaggyBevo with the username "NeverMarryAStripper." The dude consistently tells some of the funniest, and yet saddest stories you've ever heard regarding his former wife. Seems she had a rocking body, but dumb as a box of rocks....and damn if he didn't get taken to the cleaners and continues to pay for it today. I gotta say I agree with you, Bluto.

Got married at 27. I really like it. Glad I waited until then or it would have probably been a bad idea. But I like it.

Same here. The Mrs. and I got married when I was about 28, she was 25. I felt like by that time I had seen what most women had to offer. I dated fairly seriously for several years prior, all different age groups, and by 28 I felt like I knew what I wanted and was ready to settle down. I actually rekindled an old relationship, who would end up being my future wife. We had dated for 4 years while I was in college, broke it off because we both felt like we were too young for marriage and it felt like we were in some holding pattern. I was interesting in finding a Catholic girl too, however in the years following our first split that turned out horrible. So, I got back together with the old flame, got tied down, and we just had our 3rd kid.

My best advice: make sure you live together for a bit before you decide to get hitched. Living together and dating from two separate locations is a different animal. You will see each others bad habits when you live together, and you'll see each other at the worst of times. If you can handle this for awhile, then marriage shouldn't be a big issue. If you find that she has annoying habits that she can't quit, like leaving lights on all the time, or leaves big piles of laundry, or picks her teeth with her toenails...if you can't handle all that, you may want to rethink moving forward.

Inevitably you may find that your special someone DOES do some things that drive you bonkers. You have two options: you learn to love these little things as they're a part of who she is, or if you cannot possibly budge on them at all then you have to say something and hope you don't drive her away. There is no option 3, because it can drive you mad and you may come to resent the other person as a result.

 

[tussin]

My best advice: make sure you live together for a bit before you decide to get hitched. Living together and dating from two separate locations is a different animal. You will see each others bad habits when you live together, and you'll see each other at the worst of times. If you can handle this for awhile, then marriage shouldn't be a big issue. If you find that she has annoying habits that she can't quit, like leaving lights on all the time, or leaves big piles of laundry, or picks her teeth with her toenails...if you can't handle all that, you may want to rethink moving forward.

Inevitably you may find that your special someone DOES do some things that drive you bonkers. You have two options: you learn to love these little things as they're a part of who she is, or if you cannot possibly budge on them at all then you have to say something and hope you don't drive her away. There is no option 3, because it can drive you mad and you may come to resent the other person as a result.

Just my opinion, but I couldn't disagree more with that.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

This may be complete BS, but I remember reading somewhere couples who live together before marriage have a much higher divorce rate than those who don't. Lots of factors go into that, but every situation is unique and what you make of it.

*I lived with my wife for 5 years before getting married to her last year. It was more me being lazy about buying a ring than anything, and she didn't mind. A lot of women would kick your ass to the curb though after a year of living together without popping the question.

 

[ulukinatme]

Just my opinion, but I couldn't disagree more with that.

To each their own. I know Catholicism frowns on it, but damn...I nearly got married to one girl that I would have been MISERABLE with if we had gotten hitched before living together. Just dating was completely different than when we lived together for a brief period. I can't explain it, but when you live together you have a whole bunch of responsibilities that get added to the relationship. Chores, food, bad habits, morning routines and behavior, etc are all factored in and on display. If one person isn't pulling their weight in chores it can be taxing on the other person, and you get to see a lot of different behaviors and bad habits when you live together that you would never see if you were just dating a person.

You never really get to know someone until you live with them. That's my opinion, and it's from experience.

 

[ulukinatme]

This may be complete BS, but I remember reading somewhere couples who live together before marriage have a much higher divorce rate than those who don't. Lots of factors go into that, but every situation is unique and what you make of it.

I wonder how much that statistic is skewed by practicing Catholics that don't believe in divorce and don't believe in living together before marriage?

I'm in the same boat with you. My wife isn't Catholic, but I am. We lived together for about a year before getting married. We dated for 4 years long before that though.

 

[wizards8507]

My best advice: make sure you live together for a bit before you decide to get hitched.

Terrible, terrible, terrible advice. Completely separate from whatever positive or negative impact it will have on your marriage, living together is a mess financially and practically, especially if things don't work out.

Mixing Money Before Marriage - daveramsey.com

 

[ulukinatme]

Terrible, terrible, terrible advice. Completely separate from whatever positive or negative impact it will have on your marriage, living together is a mess financially and practically, especially if things don't work out.

Mixing Money Before Marriage - daveramsey.com

That article seems to be irrelevant to what I'm saying. The article suggests that people are shacking up together with no future plans whatsoever for marriage. These couples are splitting because theres nothing legally or religiously tying them down, no support, no commitment from either party, no plans for marriage in the future. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you should test drive the Ferrari before you decide to tie yourself down to payments on it for the rest of your life. I'm not saying do something stupid like co-sign on a house together. Live in an apartment, share the chores and basic bills like food and utilities. If that goes well, then you pop the question. Hell, you can even pop the question and spend engagement living together for a year if you like, that's not out of the question.

 

[tussin]

To each their own. I know Catholicism frowns on it, but damn...I nearly got married to one girl that I would have been MISERABLE with if we had gotten hitched before living together. Just dating was completely different than when we lived together for a brief period. I can't explain it, but when you live together you have a whole bunch of responsibilities that get added to the relationship. Chores, food, bad habits, morning routines and behavior, etc are all factored in and on display. If one person isn't pulling their weight in chores it can be taxing on the other person, and you get to see a lot of different behaviors and bad habits when you live together that you would never see if you were just dating a person.

You never really get to know someone until you live with them. That's my opinion, and it's from experience.

You're absolutely right when you say to each their own. But, here's how I think of it:

1. I would never want to share finances with someone until I am married. Buying houses, splitting rent, getting furniture, or even pets or normal household expenses with someone who you aren't tied to is a recipe for disaster. You need skin in the game (i.e. till death do us part) to make it work IMO.

2. I'm of the opinion that if you have some doubts of what it would be like to live with your significant other then you simply need to date longer. I'm certain that my gf and I (dating for 5+ years) know almost everything about the other's habits and also have the respect for each together to adapt our lifestyles / habits if we were to get married and move in together. We won't need a trial period.

3. I love living with my group of friends. I'll have 40+ years to live with my future wife. No reason to rush into it.

4. I've personally seen some absolute disaster scenarios with friends moving in with their significant other.

 

[wizards8507]

That article seems to be irrelevant to what I'm saying. The article suggests that people are shacking up together with no future plans whatsoever for marriage. These couples are splitting because theres nothing legally or religiously tying them down, no support, no commitment from either party, no plans for marriage in the future. I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying you should test drive the Ferrari before you decide to tie yourself down to payments on it for the rest of your life. I'm not saying do something stupid like co-sign on a house together. Live in an apartment, share the chores and basic bills like food and utilities. If that goes well, then you pop the question. Hell, you can even pop the question and spend engagement living together for a year if you like, that's not out of the question.

Okay, so you sign a 12-month lease on a two bedroom apartment together and six weeks later you decide you can't stand each other. One of you is now homeless and the other one has an apartment you can't afford. Good luck choosing who gets to be which one. Oh and have fun fighting over the couch, TV, golden retriever, and bedroom set.

Separate works. Together works. Kinda halfsie separate-but-not doesn't. Until you're married, your pronouns are "I" and "she." As soon as you're married, it becomes "we."

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Like I said, every situation is unique, and none are limited to probability and statistic, you make your own lives together. I personally would not want my children to cohabitate with their significant other before marriage (especially a daughter), but my experience doing it worked out for the best.

 

[ulukinatme]

Okay, so you sign a 12-month lease on a two bedroom apartment together and six weeks later you decide you can't stand each other. One of you is now homeless and the other one has an apartment you can't afford. Good luck choosing who gets to be which one. Oh and have fun fighting over the couch, TV, golden retriever, and bedroom set.

Separate works. Together works. Kinda halfsie separate-but-not doesn't. Until you're married, your pronouns are "I" and "she." As soon as you're married, it becomes "we."

If one party can't swing an apartment payment solo, then they probably shouldn't be living in that apartment. That's just a bad financial decision imo. What would happen if one of you finds yourself without a job?

So, using your same argument...say you get married to someone before living together...and then you find you can't stand each other and get divorced. How much costlier and more complex is it to get divorced as oppose to one party just moving out?


I want to reiterate that I'm not saying you shouldn't get married here. I'm also not saying you should just shack up with anyone you're dating. I'm saying find someone that you really, really like and think you would like to spend the rest of time with. Spend some intimate time with them in close quarters where you can really see them at their worst...cause when you're dating you tend to only see someone at their best. If you still love them with all their faults, then by all means pop the question. Heck, you can even wait to move in until an engagement, nothing is set in stone at that point.