Marriage

[Pachuco]

That's not a very charitable interpretation of my post, Pachuco. I was not arguing that every single male over 30 is somehow deserving of contempt. I was commenting on an attitude that is very common among my generation. Many young men see the sacrifices involved with starting a family, and they immediately say, "Whoa, that's not for me! I still have so much stuff to do and see first. How am I ever going to discover myself if I settle down?"

That strikes me as a very immature way of looking at the world. Boys become men when they dedicate their lives to something bigger than themselves, and learn to consistently put others first. If one instinctively recoils from the costs associated with family life, I would question his moral fitness.

Not everyone is called to marriage obviously. A man can dedicate himself to a noble cause and pour himself out for the good of others without taking a wife. But my generation's penchant for drastically postponing and frequently avoiding marriage altogether does not bode well for the future.

Meant no disrespect. In retrospect, I can see how my response could be interpreted that way. For that, I apologize. Typing, texting, etc. often loses the feel of improvisation - riffing off an expressed thought - in this case, my extracting of a generalization (not attributable to your main point) to present an alternate view.

I certainly agree with your underlying message regarding moral fitness, and the trappings that can ensnare many a man along the journey without a sense of rootedness and purpose beyond selfishness.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Do you ever want a kid? If so, then you may want to consider that. Typically, it takes a couple years to court a lady into an engagement, then another year to get married (typically). So right this second... assuming the averages... you'll be 31 before you have a traditional family (dating+marriage=kid).

Unless you meet your wife today, you better marry a girl younger than you and pray that your biological clock is strong. Women's chances of pregnancy start declining sharply in their 30's.

Just mentioning this, because you may feel foolish at 36 if you want a kid and physically cannot create one.

I waited bc I knew I wasn't mature enough and I knew I wanted to get all the partying out of my system. Then I just was picky, waiting for the right one, bc the divorce rate was high enough without me adding to it bc I married a hottie with no brain. I met my wife right before my 33rd bday, and I knew pretty much right away that she was the one for me. We got married the month of my 36th bday and with 2 kids, I seriously couldn't be happier.

To your point though, my wife is over 9 years younger than me (and still way more mature lol). That was huge for me bc I wanted kids but I was older, and I wanted to make sure we were both ready AND I wanted to enjoy just being the two of us for a while. I still feel young-ish so it has worked out great for us...I'm beyond lucky.

But to Whiskey's point, marriage is a ton of sacrifice. My wife is a saint and used to drop me off and pick me up when I'd go out to a bar with my buddies, but not all women are like that. But once we had kids, especially two kids, I can't go out much anymore (and by going out I mean hitting a bar to watch a game or two)...it's just not fair to her. My friends in South Bend are all in their mid to late 20s and single, and with the baby, I turn them down all the time, whether its golfing, drinking or whatever. Those are the sacrifices you make when you get married and have kids. It might sound shitty but I love spending time with my family, so it's all good. And when the kids are a bit older, I'll get my 'bro-time' in again.. My wife tells me to go hang out bc she knows its important for our relationship to have time for ourselves and our friends, but my newborn is a fussy little shit lol and it just isn't fair to her.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is wait until you are ready, and NEVER settle for a girl just for the sake of getting married. Make sure you have the same goals and values and all that. And when you do get married, be a good dude to her and pray she doesn't change.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman Ray
Do not Moms usually win the head to heads with Dads in these cases?




What "some" might you be referring to? I will say that from my personal experience, that is spot on! I have conceited many an argument once that subtle threat wives make has been tossed into the fight. Haha!

Wife: how am I supposed to know the tire was all the way flat? I can't get out and look at it while I'm driving down the road! I couldn't stop because the store was opening in 10 minutes & if I had been late, those shoes would have been GONE!

Me: THAT DAM THUMP WASNT YOUR CAR TAPPING TO THE MUSIC! That should have been a hint!! Now, we not only have to buy a new tire because you shredded that one & road Hazzard won't cover stupidity, but we have to buy a new rim!!! We both know you weren't going to check it out because you wanted to get to that damned sale for those damned shoes that YOU DONT NEED

Wife: speaking of don't need... I guess you won't be NEEDING anything out of me at night anymore???

Me: WELL, IM JUST PISSED THAT THAT DAMNED STORE HAD TO OPEN SO EARLY & IT PUT YOU IN HARMS WAY!! I JUST GET SCARED WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE YOU COULD HAVE BEEN HURT!

Note: that was an ACTUAL argument back in the day. Haha!

This is either an extreme caricature or you have some very interesting dynamics in your marriage. This shouldn't be used as a reason to avoid marriage.

This is true. I'm 38, my wife (who is currently divorcing me) is 28. We've been together for 10 years, married for 8. Yep, your math is right. We were 28 & 18 when we met, and I knew it was a bad idea (she was a stripper), but c'mon...I got 10 years and two awesome kids out of the deal! But yeah...the trophy wife is a real vicious one. Hell, look at Donald Sterling and his trophy GF!

A trophy wife is an absurd statement, both for it's misogyny and for it's failure to view a woman as something more than an object. If you truly met your wife while she was a stripper then I have to believe that the woman as object was a mindset that you had already acquired and it likely persisted into the marriage.

I hope you and your wife find a way to keep your children at the forefront when making these impactful decisions. I have no doubt, it's a difficult thing to deal with.


As to those looking towards marriage: Find a woman who you do not wear a mask for, talk about everything: children, likes/dislikes, must-haves, primacy of various aspects in life, life plan, find out when they are projecting what they want vs. really saying it, talk about sex life (in a modest way), talk about money (as much as possible).

Finally, it's imperative you understand that who you are dating and eventually marrying will not be the same person in 2 years/5 years/20 years, etc. We all grow, develop, change. The mindset in marriage must be to change together, to allow the other to develop into who they want to be. Hopefully, your development will be lockstep with one another.

 

[Irish8248]

first marriage is for money second marriage is for love .... lol i keed i keed ... kinda

at 28 I honesltly have no desire to get married. I have 2 of my best friends go down that road and 2 more that are currently living with their GF. The one married couple live states away from each other due to a job (not to give the wrong impression they really do make it work) while the other is so caught up in marriage he only hangs with married couples. He cant do anything without a wife.

My one friend who would be anti mariage has lived with a girl for over a year and while theyre great together you can see there is just something continiously grinding. The other friend lived with his GF for over two years and she was cheating on him for the last 6 months


just seems like a huge headache. Im mature enough to be ready, i think about it sometimes, but I cant see myself getting married until 30. I have the bar exam and then finding a job before i can even process that stuff. But even if i didnt have that in my way, I look at these 4 people and I dont see the big enticing desire tog et married now. Sure your going to diagree with a person you live with, they might be a whore and cheat, a job too good to turn down might be offered literally the day before your wedding, or you might like living the same life every day; those are all foreseeable risks, I just dont see the incentive. Those scenarios dont make me clutch my pillow and wish cinderella came into my life tomorow

 

[BobD]

 

[woolybug25]

I waited bc I knew I wasn't mature enough and I knew I wanted to get all the partying out of my system. Then I just was picky, waiting for the right one, bc the divorce rate was high enough without me adding to it bc I married a hottie with no brain. I met my wife right before my 33rd bday, and I knew pretty much right away that she was the one for me. We got married the month of my 36th bday and with 2 kids, I seriously couldn't be happier.

To your point though, my wife is over 9 years younger than me (and still way more mature lol). That was huge for me bc I wanted kids but I was older, and I wanted to make sure we were both ready AND I wanted to enjoy just being the two of us for a while. I still feel young-ish so it has worked out great for us...I'm beyond lucky.

But to Whiskey's point, marriage is a ton of sacrifice. My wife is a saint and used to drop me off and pick me up when I'd go out to a bar with my buddies, but not all women are like that. But once we had kids, especially two kids, I can't go out much anymore (and by going out I mean hitting a bar to watch a game or two)...it's just not fair to her. My friends in South Bend are all in their mid to late 20s and single, and with the baby, I turn them down all the time, whether its golfing, drinking or whatever. Those are the sacrifices you make when you get married and have kids. It might sound shitty but I love spending time with my family, so it's all good. And when the kids are a bit older, I'll get my 'bro-time' in again.. My wife tells me to go hang out bc she knows its important for our relationship to have time for ourselves and our friends, but my newborn is a fussy little shit lol and it just isn't fair to her.

Bottom line, for me anyway, is wait until you are ready, and NEVER settle for a girl just for the sake of getting married. Make sure you have the same goals and values and all that. And when you do get married, be a good dude to her and pray she doesn't change.

Great post. I'm with you in regards to waiting for the right woman. I honestly never thought I would get married when I was in my 20's. I had no desire for kids, traveled extensively and loved to party. Then I met the right girl. I should have prefaced my earlier comment by stating that one shouldn't get themselves involved with someone simply because "it's time". Rather, I meant that if someone is in their late 20's or early 30's, they need to keep in mind that their chances of having the traditional family are declining drastically each year. But choosing the wrong woman can be even worse. Spending your early 30's trying to make something work that doesn't can have long term effects on your life in it's own right.

All that being said, if someone doesn't meet "the one" until they are 40, conceiving a child can be quite challenging, if possible. Something to think about if someone is in their late 20's and they are only considering their current desires of lifestyle.

 

[Emcee77]

Marriage

Right, to me it is pretty simple: get married when you find the right woman. Don't hesitate. If she's really the right woman, your only regret will be not finding her earlier.

But until you find her, don't worry about it. It's not something you can force. Just keep kicking ass and being awesome.

 

[Wild Bill]

A trophy wife is an absurd statement, both for it's misogyny and for it's failure to view a woman as something more than an object. If you truly met your wife while she was a stripper then I have to believe that the woman as object was a mindset that you had already acquired and it likely persisted into the marriage.

You seem like a good dude and I'm not trying to attack you personally but this statement is a bit naive. They're real, I promise you. I just saw a pack of these animals while I was trying to enjoy my dinner in the viagra triangle.

 

[ACamp1900]

The trick is to find a fat girl who recently lost the weight and is now skinny. In their head they still view themselves as fat. If you can keep her insecurities at a high level, she'll have as much sex as you want, for fear of you leaving.

AMIRITE!!!!!

Or find a woman who has had a freak accident take away her ability to talk...

 

[Irish8248]

Or find a woman who has had a freak accident take away her ability to talk...

Does she live under the sea?

 

[Cackalacky]

You seem like a good dude and I'm not trying to attack you personally but this statement is a bit naive. They're real, I promise you. I just saw a pack of these animals while I was trying to enjoy my dinner in the viagra triangle.

I am pretty sure some women want to be the trophy wife. It's mutually beneficial association for financial and societal reasons. These creatures are abound chasing old money in my town.

 

[IrishInFl]

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[NDohio]

Great post. I'm with you in regards to waiting for the right woman. I honestly never thought I would get married when I was in my 20's. I had no desire for kids, traveled extensively and loved to party. Then I met the right girl. I should have prefaced my earlier comment by stating that one shouldn't get themselves involved with someone simply because "it's time". Rather, I meant that if someone is in their late 20's or early 30's, they need to keep in mind that their chances of having the traditional family are declining drastically each year. But choosing the wrong woman can be even worse. Spending your early 30's trying to make something work that doesn't can have long term effects on your life in it's own right.

All that being said, if someone doesn't meet "the one" until they are 40, conceiving a child can be quite challenging, if possible. Something to think about if someone is in their late 20's and they are only considering their current desires of lifestyle.

The bold is the key to it all. I knew instantly when I met my wife. I was no where near ready to settle down but it all changed once I met "the one". We married relatively young (23 & 22), have two awesome kids, and will celebrate 24 years this year.

At the time I had no idea how much my life would change and I was pretty hard-headed about it. But when it's the right girl your entire mind set completely changes.

I am really glad we started early. We will have the opportunity to be really active empty nesters and we will get to spend a lot of time with grandchildren(barring something unexpected/tragic).

It hasn't always been easy, but it's been a blessing.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

You seem like a good dude and I'm not trying to attack you personally but this statement is a bit naive. They're real, I promise you. I just saw a pack of these animals while I was trying to enjoy my dinner in the viagra triangle.

I don't see this as an attack. A woman who simply wants to be a trophy and nothing more was not addressed in my previous comments. As men, we can not control how women want to be viewed but we can control how we view women. There is absolutely nothing gained by viewing a woman as an object or a possession. Even the subtle jokes smack of misogyny, no naïveté needed.

Obviously, I have not time in my day for someone who is so caught up in themselves that their foremost ambition in life is to merely make use of their fleeting beauty.

The fact that you replied in the manner you did means I must not be articulating my point well enough. I'll be spending more time on my posts from here on out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I found two things about this thread interesting : All the different (wise) opinions expressed herein; and, the general conciliatory nature of those expressing opinions.

The aggression level of political threads (highest) and threads where disagreeing football opinions (second) are much worse.

I assume that is because of a recognition of true brotherhood.

I am 57 and have been married twice. Here is what I have learned that has not been expressed better, but may have just been expressed differently, so far in this thread.

When we talk about anything we do "independently" in life, we are the sum product of what we have learned. This is our environment, our own abilities, both positive and limiting, and what we have learned through experience. Based upon that we follow a pretty predictable pattern.

Everyone wants the best for themselves and others; no one really tries to go into something important trying to fail. Those that come to that opinion have simply given up on trying to figure out what they need to do to correct their mistakes.

Time and clear goals do help. General social stimulation (media, movies, and TV) have huge negative impact if taken seriously.

The biggest problem I have seen in marriages, my opinion, but based on a lot of good observation, is not finding someone with a lot of positive virtues. People look for the good and find it. This is important. But what a lot of people are not in tune to is what they cannot live with. What is bad for them.

And what a good perspective mate may have that is bad for them, may not be bad for someone else. Two examples : I have seen more marriages fail because the otherwise happy couple has two different and incompatible ideas about finances, or personal finances, and freedom within the relationship.

You would see this as someone who is a saver marries someone who is a spender. This is something that may not be revealed until they are in their 30's or 40's. Personal freedom, that is everything from having a sense of humor about flirting, to a need for fulfillment outside of marriage. I am not even talking intimacy here. Some people are only happy if they have a full life outside of marriage, and others are only happy if everything revolves around that relationship. Is one better that the other? Not really.

But in this world, these seemingly small issues that "we can work out later with a little love and understanding" don't seem important when we are in love. And they loom large when making the transition between being in love and developing a mature, life long loving relationship.

For me, I picked two wonderful women with whom I was not able to make the transition; in each case we had small issues that began looming large.

But in both cases we had wonderful children that made it worthwhile. Thankfully, I was programmed and learned to be a better father than the failed husband I was.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Does she live under the sea?

Little Mermaid reference.....reps, sir.

 

[IrishInFl]

I'm not even thinking about getting married right now. My ex and I were contemplating it (ok, she was actually asking when we should get married), then I came to my senses, actually pretty recently. So it still stings. The thought of marrying a lazy sociopath with a slew of mental disorders scares the crap out of me. But, maybe I will someday.

 

[NCND]

I'm not even thinking about getting married right now. My ex and I were contemplating it (ok, she was actually asking when we should get married), then I came to my senses, actually pretty recently. So it still stings. The thought of marrying a lazy sociopath with a slew of mental disorders scares the crap out of me. But, maybe I will someday.

+1 and I'm 31.

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't see this as an attack. A woman who simply wants to be a trophy and nothing more was not addressed in my previous comments. As men, we can not control how women want to be viewed but we can control how we view women. There is absolutely nothing gained by viewing a woman as an object or a possession. Even the subtle jokes smack of misogyny, no naïveté needed.

Obviously, I have not time in my day for someone who is so caught up in themselves that their foremost ambition in life is to merely make use of their fleeting beauty.

The fact that you replied in the manner you did means I must not be articulating my point well enough. I'll be spending more time on my posts from here out then.

AS said earlier, we all know you are a thoughtful poster and sincere but lets not forget that "attractiveness" is a legitimate and highly selective trait found throughout the animal kingdom. Great amounts of energy and resources are devoted to finding attractive partners so discounting it as mysogyny is slightly short sighted. Some women want to be beautiful. Some men want a beautiful women. Some people forgo beauty for a bank account. Thats ok. Animals have been fighting for resources forever. Its a pretty natural phenomenon.

 

[pumpdog20]

Key to a happy marriage: pick loyalty over looks. If you can get both, even better.

 

[cody1smith]

This is true. I'm 38, my wife (who is currently divorcing me) is 28. We've been together for 10 years, married for 8. Yep, your math is right. We were 28 & 18 when we met, and I knew it was a bad idea (she was a stripper), but c'mon...I got 10 years and two awesome kids out of the deal! But yeah...the trophy wife is a real vicious one. Hell, look at Donald Sterling and his trophy GF!

Lol what strip club? We live 40 minutes from each other maybe I have seen her.

 

[tussin]

IMO, the hardest thing about the marriage process is timing it with career move or advanced schooling.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

AS said earlier, we all know you are a thoughtful poster and sincere but lets not forget that "attractiveness" is a legitimate and highly selective trait found throughout the animal kingdom. Great amounts of energy and resources are devoted to finding attractive partners so discounting it as mysogyny is slightly short sighted. Some women want to be beautiful. Some men want a beautiful women. Some people forgo beauty for a bank account. Thats ok. Animals have been fighting for resources forever. Its a pretty natural phenomenon.

Trophy wives with their narrow hips, couldn't have more than 6 or 7 children!

-Inspired by my Amish friend Ishmael

 

[dshans]

Well, an oldie but a goodie (even for me) and, I believe, a repeat on my part from some other thread far, far away and long, long ago.

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[MNIrishman]

IMO, the hardest thing about the marriage process is timing it with career move or advanced schooling.

Agree. I'm marrying a recent grad from medical school. It's a career field that is barbarically inflexible, especially as it relates to the residency, so we're struggling to make it work. Very hard for me to find a job near the ONE place she has to be. No regrets on the woman, just regrets that it isn't the 50s anymore. (Not really---looking forward to her making bank haha).

 

[GBdomer]

Only ring you should give a girl is a nueva ring.

 

[Bubbles]

AS said earlier, we all know you are a thoughtful poster and sincere but lets not forget that "attractiveness" is a legitimate and highly selective trait found throughout the animal kingdom. Great amounts of energy and resources are devoted to finding attractive partners so discounting it as mysogyny is slightly short sighted. Some women want to be beautiful. Some men want a beautiful women. Some people forgo beauty for a bank account. Thats ok. Animals have been fighting for resources forever. Its a pretty natural phenomenon.

It's usually the males of other species putting on all the makeup and pushup bras, so to speak.....and frankly, its because we (males) have very little to offer in terms of ensuring the next generation. In other species, 'attractiveness' is nothing more than an indicator of ability to produce and protect offspring with a better than average chance of survival.

The human condition is decidedly post-darwinian.

 

[dshans]

.

 

[dshans]

Tenacious D] The human condition is decidedly post-darwinian.

Yep.

Well, yes and no. Kinda-sorta. There's been a bit of an "evolutionary" shift from the standard paradigm when it comes to, as the Ferengi would say, "Hew-Mons.".

This would be a too long, far too convoluted "discussion" to engage.

In this setting.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Meet my wife in nevada while stopping at a bar to have a drink and a smoke. She was part time bartender and choreographed some late night dance routines. Love at first sight. We are having our first daughter soon......
With her quiting her job because of the baby money has become a issue. ......
BobD will we make it?