Northwestern football players win right to unionize

[magogian]

I'm not for paying college athletes, but I think we can all agree that there are a lot of schools that are giving players a raw deal.

Just watched a video earlier about the UNC scandal. Players aren't even picking their major. They are simply funneled into it and given passing grades.

Unionizing won't do anything to help this problem.

 

[magogian]

I thought the vast majority of athletic departments were operating in the red. Anyone know how this would factor in?

The vast majority do.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I don't see anything in his bio about legal expertise but this guy seems to think the decision will be difficult to overturn.

 

[Booslum31]

If players were going to use unionization to improve their lives in some non-monetary capacity I can't really argue against it too much. But it's not going to stop there.

This. I just find this just another freaking thing to be irritated about.

 

[rikkitikki08]

What if i told you that on March 26th 2014 the layout of college athletics would be changed forever, Welcome to ESPN 30 for 30 " Union some and you lose some"

 

[koonja]

What if i told you that on March 26th 2014 the layout of college athletics would be changed forever, Welcome to ESPN 30 for 30 " Union some and you lose some"

This is great, lol. Do you mind if I steal your work and tweet this?

 

[rikkitikki08]

This is great, lol. Do you mind if I steal your work and tweet this?

Go for it homie, you better get at least 1,000 re tweets

 

[Ndaccountant]

Slightly dated article (2012), but it clearly highlights the potential struggles that could exist if/when this progresses. Unionization could achieve any number of things for the players, but the majority of the outcomes will most likely lead to increase costs for the institutions. Considering the arms race at hand, colleges have been relying more and more on general funds for the athletic department. At some point, the cost will become too much.

Myth: College Sports Are a Cash Cow

 

[T Town Tommy]

The real issue with this ruling is that it will force schools to decrease the number of sports they offer to students. Throw in Title 9 requirements and I can see most schools only having the major sports, along with a small amount of other sports teams. The ruling is the first step to paying college athletes and schools that struggle to turn a profit now off their sports programs will slowly die.

Hopefully as this case proceeds through the court systems, the ruling will be overturned. Otherwise, ametuer athletics as we now know will be a distant memory.

 

[GowerND11]

I have a hard time feeling sorry for any college student on a free ride who also has access to this:

Incredible photos and video of Oregon's new football facility - SBNation.com

but the rest of the student body doesn't....


Now I know this is Oregon and not Northwestern, but the fact remains that many student athletes, especially D1 football and basketball players have tremendous perks that other students can't even sniff.

 

[Pa Golden Tate Fan]

The NCAA should adopt the Olympic Model as a compromise in my opinion.

 

[PANDFAN]

pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered...hope they get slaughtered

 

[wizards8507]

Another thing that nobody is talking about:

The National Labor Relations Board only has jurisdiction over private employers. That's only 17 of the FBS schools.

 

[koonja]

I've told this story before, but I lived with one of my best friends from high school and in college at Marquette.

His parents (janitor, school secretary) made about 50K combined, and he was on a partial golf scholarship at a school with high tuition...

He was never poor and never worked a day in college. He took out loans because he wanted to, but he didn't have to. He graduated ~ 12K in debt and lived very comfortably.

Living with him, I realized the NCAA takes care of the athletes better than most people think. For instance, he lost his iphone one time, filed a paper to NCAA, and was sent a check for $450 to replace his cell phone, no questions asked. Think about that for a second... An iphone, replaced, by the NCAA. The NCAA has PLENTY of emergency funds available, even to golfers...

These horror stories you hear about are an examples of a person spending their money in really ridiculous ways, but we don't hear about what stupid 'toys' they bought, only that they've ran out of cash for 'meals'.

Paying the athletes would further segregate students from athletes. At big time schools, they're already treated differently, idolized and despised by the other students, and giving them more money and power just strengthens that.

Offer them financial advice rather than more cash. College is about learning to live in frugality so you can appreciate the spoils your hard work gives you afterwards, not for living wealthy while you're 20 and are obsessed with yourself and nice things and spending $25 a day on food.

 

[PANDFAN]

I've told this story before, but I lived with one of my best friends from high school and in college at Marquette.

His parents (janitor, school secretary) made about 50K combined, and he was on a partial golf scholarship at a school with high tuition...

He was never poor and never worked a day in college. He took out loans because he wanted to, but he didn't have to. He graduated ~ 12K in debt and lived very comfortably.

Living with him, I realized the NCAA takes care of the athletes better than most people think. For instance, he lost his iphone one time, filed a paper to NCAA, and was sent a check for $450 to replace his cell phone, no questions asked. The NCAA has PLENTY of emergency funds available to even golfers...

These horror stories you hear about are an example of a person spending their money in really redicilous ways, but we don't hear about what stupid 'toys' they bought, only that they've ran out of cash.

Paying the athletes would further segregate students from athletes. At big time schools, they're already treated differently, idolized and despised by the other students, and giving them more money and power just strengthens that.

Offer them financial advice rather than more cash. College is about learning to live in frugality so you can appreciate the spoils your hard work gives you afterwards, not for living wealthy while you're 20 and are obsessed with yourself and nice things.

how many people on twitter are posting pics of new video systems/games, shoes, clothes that come from disenfranchised backgrounds??? LOTS..louis nix by all accounts came from a very poor household...he always seemed to have the new games the moment they came out along w/ jordans,others of known poor financial backgrounds posting pics of going to movies,getting new iphones and who's paying for the phone?? , out to eat etc...they are getting $$$$

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Another thing that nobody is talking about:

The National Labor Relations Board only has jurisdiction over private employers. That's only 17 of the FBS schools.

People are talking about that. Read it in a ton of articles and posted about it above.

All other schools would be governed by state labor law. Meaning that players in schools in right to work states would probably not be able to unionize.

 

[Cackalacky]

ND, USC and Miami could pay kids to come.... Lol. So much to weigh...

 

[Cackalacky]

People are talking about that. Read it in a ton of articles and posted about it above.

All other schools would be governed by state labor law. Meaning that players in schools in right to work states would probably not be able to unionize.

Hurts the Southern schools.

 

[Wild Bill]

I do not share the opinion of the court nor do I believe college athletes should be paid, but the NCAA only have themselves to blame for this decision. With as much money that flows through their doors, you'd think these assholes would see the writing on the wall and be a bit more proactive in their decision making. Maybe this decision will teach them. Just a few changes would have gone a long way to prevent, or considerably delay, this type of challenge. Just a few off the top of my head: All medical expenses resulting from sports related injuries should be covered in full. Transfer rules should be adjusted to allow penalty-free transfers, provided the player's coach's contract was pre-maturely terminated (by the coach or university). Allow the players to earn a percentage of the median income in any given zip code (let's be honest, most of them would never "work" b/c their basic needs are covered. It is a complete myth that these guys live in poverty. Most of these players are living better now than they were at home with their parents - rent, food (with almost no limitation), gym, supplements, clothing, shoes, travel (around campus) tickets, etc are provided).

 

[IrishLax]

I do not share the opinion of the court nor do I believe college athletes should be paid, but the NCAA only have themselves to blame for this decision. With as much money that flows through their doors, you'd think these assholes would see the writing on the wall and be a bit more proactive in their decision making.

The biggest issue is that the NCAA is not some all-power, homogenous entity. It is relatively toothless and is only empowered by its member schools.

Basically every "big time" school saw the writing on the wall... and it's one of the reasons why over the past couple years there has been a stronger and stronger push for autonomy by the schools of the "power conferences."

The little guys that make up the majority of the NCAA members are what really messes up a lot of stuff. They have consistently voted in rules for "competitive balance" over the past couple years that ultimately have led to the unsustainable status quo we have now.

Maybe this decision will teach them. Just a few changes would have gone a long way to prevent, or considerably delay, this type of challenge. Just a few off the top of my head: All medical expenses resulting from sports related injuries should be covered in full. Transfer rules should be adjusted to allow penalty-free transfers, provided the player's coach's contract was pre-maturely terminated (by the coach or university). Allow the players to earn a percentage of the median income in any given zip code (let's be honest, most of them would never "work" b/c their basic needs are covered. It is a complete myth that these guys live in poverty. Most of these players are living better now than they were at home with their parents - rent, food (with almost no limitation), gym, supplements, clothing, shoes, travel (around campus) tickets, etc are provided).

Where this is heading is the death of the NCAA as we currently see it. To this point, big schools have played along because the NCAA offers an AWESOME liability shield. Now, NCAA membership is potentially causing a lot more problems than it solves. I expect drastic changes to, or an all-out migration from, the NCAA within the next decade.

 

[koonja]

Stupid question but I'm hoping I'm not the only one wondering, how would this affect ND if the NCAA was taken down and paying players became OK?

Would it help ND in football? Hurt them? No change?

 

[IrishLax]

Stupid question but I'm hoping I'm not the only one wondering, how would this affect ND if the NCAA was taken down and paying players became OK?

Would it help ND in football? Hurt them? No change?

It's hard to say. Could help... could hurt... most likely hurt though. As much money and as many fans as ND has, the administration does not place football > all. So the school itself would likely not pony up much money relative to, say, Texas/Alabama/Michigan for players.

Additionally, we don't have a singular football-obsessed sugar daddy donor like some other places (i.e. Oregon, Oklahoma State, etc.)

The only way ND would realistically compete at a #1 level in terms of $$ would take an incredible amount of effort and coordination to pull donations from the nationwide fan base and put them into a centrally run slush fund run by in-the-loop boosters/coaches.

Or maybe get the Vatican to sell a couple paintings and pay for a class full of 5s

 

[IrishLax]

Also, as others have mentioned, if this leads to semi-pro athletes I think there's a very solid chance you see a lot of schools drop "division 1" sports. I could definitely see Stanford, Northwestern, ND, Duke, Vandy, Wake, etc. saying eff it and starting their own conference with no scholarships. Like-minded institutions who want student athletes to be STUDENT athletes could break away and form the American Academic Conference or something like that.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

ND's profit last year was ~$80MM, 2nd only Texas's ~$100MM, so surely we'd be at some sort of advantage.

 

[koonja]

I know people think I take Hansen's word as gospel, but that's not the case, lol. I do like his chats and FWIW:

That is hard to answer in this forum. I'll give you the brief version. There are so many steps and so much time to pass to make this a reality, so I think we can all take a deep breath. I am for athletes' rights. I think there are abuses in some programs that needed to be addressed. However, I don't think this is the way to do it. It could impact Notre Dame, but we're still exploring on just how that might look. It actually might work to ND's advantage from a recruiting standpoint. We're going to have attorney Jerry Lutkus on SportsBeat tonight at 5:30 EDT (wsbtradio.com and the wsbt radio app). He'll have a lot of those answers.

 

[Cali_domer]

Here is what Coach Kelly said about a month ago about this.


Quote: Last thing from me. I know it's somewhat of an older issue now, but the young man at Northwestern that was trying to get the union going, did you take the temperature of your team about the issues that he wanted to express with regard to the union? Do you feel like it's something that you need to be concerned about or need to talk to your team about at NotreDame?
COACH KELLY: I chose not to talk about it with our team. I've talked about it with our staff and certainly our administration and Jack Swarbrick, we've had a conversation about it, because it's real; it would affect, in the national labor relations board finds that private universities that student athletes are workers, it has a substantial impact.
Now, my take is, if it turns out that way, we're going to have a significant advantage over every program in the country, because I don't think we're dropping football any time soon here. So we're going to pay compensation, we're going to pay all those things; I think our scholarship stands by itself, and add that to it, I think we're in a pretty good situation.
I don't think the NCAA is going to allow that to happen. I'm sure as heck Michigan is not going to allow that to happen. I think there's so many hurdles here that I didn't think it was the time or the place to bring it up to our team, because I just think it's‑‑ there's so many hurdles there before it gets to them.
But it was a discussion that I had with our athletic director and our staff, just because if it was brought up by a parent or if it was brought up by somebody, that we were all of the same opinion; and that is, as we stand right now, we believe that the value of a degree from NotreDame stands by itself and that that should be just compensation for the time that a student athlete gives to NotreDame.

 

[ACamp1900]

Maybe things are lost in translation, or maybe I'm just slow.... but the 2nd paragraph and the 3rd paragraph don't seem to be saying the same thing....

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Maybe things are lost in translation, or maybe I'm just slow.... but the 2nd paragraph and the 3rd paragraph don't seem to be saying the same thing....

Para 2: They will pay players if they have to. It might even be an advantage for ND.

Para 3: At this time they (Kelly and staff) think an ND scholarship alone is a fair deal.

 

[RDU Irish]

How much did Golson pay to be coached up while he was out of school? It is more than a schollie up for grabs. It is training, coaching and opportunity to audition for the next level. Premier players get a premier deal when they go pro, made possible by an infrastructure provided, not just their college but the ones with which they compete.

Then you have the average student dealing with this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/1-trillion-student-loan-debt-141440433.html

 

[aubeirish]

Lots of good points across the board. This is why I love this board.

I don't understand how anyone can feel sorry for these guys. They are acting like spoiled babies. You want to get paid? You don't to go to college? Fine, you don't have to go to college. Some of these guys don't even understand how lucky they are to be part of something so great. No money can buy that opportunity if you ask me. It really sickens me.