In need of advice

[peoriairish]

Here's the situation. I purchased a brand new Toyota Tundra on June 18 as a graduation present to myself. I signed the paperwork at 10 pm. On the 19th on the way to work that afternoon, some jerk off failed to yield on a left turn, cutting me off in the intersection. I hit his passenger side with my driver side fron corner. The truck has 74 miles on the odo. The other company took 100% liability on Friday cause the other driver received a citation from the police. The estimate originally said no frame damage and ~$8200. So I said go ahead with the repairs. It sucks, but it could be worse.

I called to check up on the repairs this morning and the body shop guy in charge of my truck said he was waiting for the adjuster to write a new estimate. The adjuster was supposed to be there last Wed (July 3) but hadn't shown nor did he call. No call by close today either. When discussing why he needed the new estimate, the body shop manager said they found frame damage and will need to replace the wiring harness and some wiring. He told me that the way my frame was built, they were going to need to cut part of the frame off then weld on the replacement part. I said nope, no welding on my brand new truck. So he said they would drop in a whole new frame. With these new parts, it brought the estimate up to ~$21000.

With all these repairs, I am going to push the other driver's insurance agency for a new truck. Since my truck was less than 14 hours old, had only 74 miles on it, and the lack of customer service from the other agency, I feel I have the right to make me happy and put me back into a new truck versus one that will get 7-10k less on trade due to frame damage being on carfax.

Does anyone have any experience with this or any ideas how to ensure I get a replacement truck? Any and all help is welcome. I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to have a lot of ammunition when talking with the insurance company. Thanks.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

Not sure about Illinois, but in some states, they're required to pay you the lesser of (1) restoration cost or (2) the decrease in market value due to the accident. So if it is restored they're not liable for lost value due to the repair -- "CarFax Damage". So getting a whole new frame, or a new truck in the alternative, may be a tough row to hoe.

Worth a shot though. You can't get anything if you don't ask.

 

[cody1smith]

That is almost scary luck

 

[peoriairish]

That is almost scary luck

Scarily bad luck maybe?

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

If they can section the frame, don't see them paying for the new frame. So that is going to take the estimate down to original quote. Not enough damage to justify new truck. Give it a shot but don't think it happens. And I would not worry about carfax if all repairs are done correctly.

 

[notredomer23]

Glad you're alright Peoria. I don't have advice but I have an hour long commute to work everyday and encounter tons of jackwagons that don't know how to drive either.

 

[peoriairish]

The way I think of my frame damage now is like a sprained ankle. Once someone sprains an ankle, they are exponentially more likely to do it again, at the same location. The structures in that region get repaired, but they are never the same. Is this not how the frame would be? I know it can be fixed, but I keep thinking that the area that is fixed will now be forever weaker than before. And with this being a truck, I will use it to off road, tow and haul. These activities will stress the frame more than normal, which in my mind, will lead to the frame being out of spec again down the road. Is this not accurate?

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Im around the field everyday more on sales and the refinishing side. But I can tell u really good frame guys are worth there weight in gold. If your trucks repairs are done by a qualified shop you have no worries. People always freak out when they hear "FRAME DAMAGE". Its the horror storys from bad body shops. It should be fixed to factory specs. Good luck

 

[peoriairish]

Great thanks. I'm still going to try and get a new truck, but it's good to know it should be okay either way. Anything to look for to know if it's a quality shop? Thanks

 

[MJ12666]

Can you get a second opinion about the damages or was the auto body shop recommended by the insurance company?

 

[peoriairish]

They weren't recommended. I took it to that one.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Great thanks. I'm still going to try and get a new truck, but it's good to know it should be okay either way. Anything to look for to know if it's a quality shop? Thanks

Look for clean and organized shops that have a good rep around town. If you have any classic car get togethers at set locations every week go ask those guys. They will have a good idea if it is a good shop or not. Also get on the web for reviews. Home That's the best shop I deal with on a daily basis. Hope u get hooked up with a shop like that. If u check out the pics in the gallery. The shop is always that clean.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I have been in the auto assembly process for years and whenever the frame of a vehicle is cut and welded it typically invalidates the manufacturers warranty. While there are very good body shops out there I would still argue that the structural integrity of the frame has been compromised and would push them for a whole new truck. I would suggest checking with Toyota to see if the warranty is violated due to the frame being cut. I do know that if we have to do any work that deals with the structural integrity of a vehicle then we can not sell the vehicle as new and we have to put a warranty disclaimer on it. We then sell at dealer's auctions with the buyer having to accept the disclaimer. It is worth your time and effort to push for a new vehicle.

 

[peoriairish]

I have been in the auto assembly process for years and whenever the frame of a vehicle is cut and welded it typically invalidates the manufacturers warranty. While there are very good body shops out there I would still argue that the structural integrity of the frame has been compromised and would push them for a whole new truck. I would suggest checking with Toyota to see if the warranty is violated due to the frame being cut. I do know that if we have to do any work that deals with the structural integrity of a vehicle then we can not sell the vehicle as new and we have to put a warranty disclaimer on it. We then sell at dealer's auctions with the buyer having to accept the disclaimer. It is worth your time and effort to push for a new vehicle.

This more supports what I was thinking. I will be giving Toyota a call tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[T Town Tommy]

This more supports what I was thinking. I will be giving Toyota a call tomorrow. Thanks.

Good luck. At least everyone is ok regarding injury. But yeah... I would be pissed if I were you.

 

[Irish YJ]

Two things....
If you can't get a new truck out of it, make sure all repairs are done by the factory. Make sure the estimates come from the factory.

Second, make your insurance company work for you, and pushes the other insurance company. Those guys know the business better than anyone. Also, make sure you get a copy of the terms of the other guys policy. Know it, learn it, love it. Might also want to have a lawyer look at both your policy, and his policy.

 

[phgreek]

Dude...I'm sick for you. I'd try anything I could to get out of that truck.

But I will say the Frame damage isn't the death sentence it once was. My wife got t-boned a couple years back while sitting at a stop sign ...lady that hit her was going 50 plus...hit her so hard the freaking front axel nearly separated...bent frame, but unbelievably, NO Airbags deployed, so guess what, they wouldn't total it. ...long story, but the party line is the airbags shouldn't have gone off based on the impact...WTF? Police report says 50MPH, I expect to see some fvcking airbags poppin'. Anyway, Utah is no place to get hit by a complete moron...no vehicle lost value allowances, no real recourse with anyone...you take what you get when the insurance companies decide....and its never really "fair".

Anyway, the mechanic swore he'd have it back to w/in a few hundredths of an inch of original spec on the frame. This was in 2010...still have the vehicle, and the only residual issue was the sensors...tire pressure sensors, some accelerator sensor, have had probably 4 or 5 sensor issues. If you keep the truck make 'em replace any sensor even remotely impacted. Otherwise you'll get nickel and dimed there in the years to come for sure.

Hope you just get a new truck...all in all that's really the only fair thing to do...but insurance ain't about fair...that's for sure.

 

[SoDakDomer]

Last year someone blew through a yield sign and my wife t-boned them with my new truck. The other person was issued a citation and their insurance company accepted their driver was at fault. Man dealing with insurance companies is a very stressful situation. Anyways it was the same situation with them thinking the initial damage was only cosmetic but finding out the frame was damaged. I reacted the same way you did and was hoping the insurance company would total the vehicle and give me replacement value. Basically the insurance company came back and gave me two options, 1 they would give me a check for the estimated damage amount. This would allow me to fix the damage if I wanted, or keep the check and sell the damaged vehicle as is (the body shop i was working with wanted me to do this because one of his employees wanted to buy the wrecked truck). I didn't feel comfortable doing that because of all the moving parts and if that buyer backed out I would be stuck repairing it or trying to sell a wrecked vehicle. The 2nd option the insurance company gave me was replacement value after depreciation(the truck was 6 months old). I took the second option and then the stressful part began, negotiating with the insurance company on fair replacement value. We went back and forth for a few days but I eventually got more from the insurance company than I originally bought the vehicle for brand new.

It was a long and stressful process, but it ended up turning out pretty good for me. Hope the insurance company decides its totalled for you. Good Luck Man.

 

[irishff1014]

if it is a good and Qualified shop you should be ok. But stay on them and inspect the frame for your self.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Has anyone on here had experience in fighting a traffic violation ticket, with good results? I've been boned in the past, not only having to pay the ticket for the violation, but also getting a court fee slapped on top of it for trying to argue said ticket.

Here's my situation.

I recently was driving home from the vet, and decided to roll through my old neighborhood. Bad idea, construction everywhere. Each of the side streets along the construction zone said "No Thru Traffic", and the two way street that I was driving on had a "road closed" sign ahead. There was NO traffic, no active construction workers. I was driving about 5-10 MPH trying to figure out where the hell the "detour" was to get to where i needed to go before hitting the road closed sign. But, again, each outlet said no through traffic so I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I decided last minute I was just going to turn around and head back the way I came. By the time I made that decision, I had no where to go, unless I pulled a u-turn, so I drove around the "road closed" sign with the intent to turn around in a driveway on the other side of it. Bam, got popped by a cop. Mind you, there was no torn up pavement, no active workers, no construction cones yet in the vicinity of the "construction site" I was driving in. The construction cones and active site were still a ways ahead Just trying to turn around in the confusion with no clear marked detour.

I explained, VERY politely, to the officer my confused dilemma. He seemed receptive and understanding, took my info, and came back with an "impeding traffic" ticket. Tried to explain how "nice" he was not to give me "driving in restricted area/construction zone", so no points on my driving record, but it will cost me a measly $175.00!

Obviously it's my right to go to court and fight the ticket. But I've had poor experiences with doing so, costing more out of pocket.

Anyone have success at this, getting out of a ticket? Based on my scenario, do I have a shot at winning in your personal opinions?

Any advice/help appreciated. If I do decide to fight it, I plan on heading back to the scene and taking photos of the side streets saying "no through traffic" and showing that there was no clearly marked detour.

Thanks gents.

 

[BobbyMac]

Has anyone on here had experience in fighting a traffic violation ticket, with good results? I've been boned in the past, not only having to pay the ticket for the violation, but also getting a court fee slapped on top of it for trying to argue said ticket.

Here's my situation.

I recently was driving home from the vet, and decided to roll through my old neighborhood. Bad idea, construction everywhere. Each of the side streets along the construction zone said "No Thru Traffic", and the two way street that I was driving on had a "road closed" sign ahead. There was NO traffic, no active construction workers. I was driving about 5-10 MPH trying to figure out where the hell the "detour" was to get to where i needed to go before hitting the road closed sign. But, again, each outlet said no through traffic so I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I decided last minute I was just going to turn around and head back the way I came. By the time I made that decision, I had no where to go, unless I pulled a u-turn, so I drove around the "road closed" sign with the intent to turn around in a driveway on the other side of it. Bam, got popped by a cop. Mind you, there was no torn up pavement, no active workers, no construction cones yet in the vicinity of the "construction site" I was driving in. The construction cones and active site were still a ways ahead Just trying to turn around in the confusion with no clear marked detour.

I explained, VERY politely, to the officer my confused dilemma. He seemed receptive and understanding, took my info, and came back with an "impeding traffic" ticket. Tried to explain how "nice" he was not to give me "driving in restricted area/construction zone", so no points on my driving record, but it will cost me a measly $175.00!

Obviously it's my right to go to court and fight the ticket. But I've had poor experiences with doing so, costing more out of pocket.

Anyone have success at this, getting out of a ticket? Based on my scenario, do I have a shot at winning in your personal opinions?

Any advice/help appreciated. If I do decide to fight it, I plan on heading back to the scene and taking photos of the side streets saying "no through traffic" and showing that there was no clearly marked detour.

Thanks gents.

Take the $175 and run. You drove around the Road Closed sign so it could have been worse.

 

[ACamp1900]

In before irishnuke's obligatory, "Pay your ticket like a damned adult..." post

 

[IrishLax]

Has anyone on here had experience in fighting a traffic violation ticket, with good results? I've been boned in the past, not only having to pay the ticket for the violation, but also getting a court fee slapped on top of it for trying to argue said ticket.

Here's my situation.

I recently was driving home from the vet, and decided to roll through my old neighborhood. Bad idea, construction everywhere. Each of the side streets along the construction zone said "No Thru Traffic", and the two way street that I was driving on had a "road closed" sign ahead. There was NO traffic, no active construction workers. I was driving about 5-10 MPH trying to figure out where the hell the "detour" was to get to where i needed to go before hitting the road closed sign. But, again, each outlet said no through traffic so I felt stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I decided last minute I was just going to turn around and head back the way I came. By the time I made that decision, I had no where to go, unless I pulled a u-turn, so I drove around the "road closed" sign with the intent to turn around in a driveway on the other side of it. Bam, got popped by a cop. Mind you, there was no torn up pavement, no active workers, no construction cones yet in the vicinity of the "construction site" I was driving in. The construction cones and active site were still a ways ahead Just trying to turn around in the confusion with no clear marked detour.

I explained, VERY politely, to the officer my confused dilemma. He seemed receptive and understanding, took my info, and came back with an "impeding traffic" ticket. Tried to explain how "nice" he was not to give me "driving in restricted area/construction zone", so no points on my driving record, but it will cost me a measly $175.00!

Obviously it's my right to go to court and fight the ticket. But I've had poor experiences with doing so, costing more out of pocket.

Anyone have success at this, getting out of a ticket? Based on my scenario, do I have a shot at winning in your personal opinions?

Any advice/help appreciated. If I do decide to fight it, I plan on heading back to the scene and taking photos of the side streets saying "no through traffic" and showing that there was no clearly marked detour.

Thanks gents.

You’re honestly extremely lucky it wasn’t a worse violation.

With that being said, if there was truly incorrect or contradictory signage and you can prove it you will likely get out of the ticket. But I’m not sure that applies to your situation.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

My Grandpa always said three is a charm. 3/3 I'll pay the damned thing.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah, I'd consider yourself lucky. Several years ago I was on my way to my sister-in-laws to get the kids. I didn't know the area she was in very well, and my wife failed to inform me they were doing construction on the normal route. They had scraped/torn off the top layer of asphalt, but it was smooth enough to drive on. Unfortunately this was on a section of road where a side street wasn't immediately available and I saw no detour signs. While sitting there looking at the road closed sign, debating my next move, I saw a car pull up and go around the road closed sign. There was no active construction, so I made the decision to follow the other driver. Bad idea, 30 seconds later I'm getting pulled over and the other driver happily drove away. I didn't get a slap on the wrist. The officer was not merciful to my predicament. He was also not helpful in finding a detour. I was late picking up my daughter.

 

[IrishLion]

Found Koon's burner account

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Yeah, I'd consider yourself lucky. Several years ago I was on my way to my sister-in-laws to get the kids. I didn't know the area she was in very well, and my wife failed to inform me they were doing construction on the normal route. They had scraped/torn off the top layer of asphalt, but it was smooth enough to drive on. Unfortunately this was on a section of road where a side street wasn't immediately available and I saw no detour signs. While sitting there looking at the road closed sign, debating my next move, I saw a car pull up and go around the road closed sign. There was no active construction, so I made the decision to follow the other driver. Bad idea, 30 seconds later I'm getting pulled over and the other driver happily drove away. I didn't get a slap on the wrist. The officer was not merciful to my predicament. He was also not helpful in finding a detour. I was late picking up my daughter.

Yeah..sounds very similar to what I went through. How hard is it to throw up a detour sign?

Hopefully just one point on your license?

 

[ulukinatme]

Yeah..sounds very similar to what I went through. How hard is it to throw up a detour sign?

Hopefully just one point on your license?

I honestly don't know. It was long enough ago that it should be gone by now and I didn't have any other points at that time. I just accepted my fate and paid the fine.

I have gone to court in the past as you mentioned. I once shorted out the digital dash on my Chrysler LeBaron and couldn't see speed/gas levels/temps, etc. That same day I got pulled over for 12 over the speed limit while staying with traffic. As it turned it out my license was also expired (Birthday was that month, thought I had till the end of the month to renew), AND while the officer was coming to the car I decided to stupidly take my seat belt off and get my license ready for him (How hard is it to see if someone in a convertible is wearing a seat belt?). Needless to say I was young and stupid. So, I was handed 3 violations. I got the dash fixed immediately and brought the repair bill to court. I also had the license renewed right away. When I got to court I didn't even need to show the Prosecutor my evidence, he gave me a plea bargain right away. Reduced the expired license to "license not available" which was a lesser charge. He also reduced the speeding to under 10 which resulted in no points on the license. He threw out the seatbelt charge too. I considered myself fairly lucky that day and took the plea bargain, but it did end up costing me a bit in court fees and fines. It was still better than getting points on the license though. Young me nearly had the license revoked due to excessive points from collisions and speeding tickets.

 

[NDBoiler]

You’re honestly extremely lucky it wasn’t a worse violation.

With that being said, if there was truly incorrect or contradictory signage and you can prove it you will likely get out of the ticket. But I’m not sure that applies to your situation.

Exactly. Providing a detour route is a requirement up to the municipality where the construction is taking place. Typically you only find a detour available on major thoroughfares, let alone a residential area. The “clear indicator” in this situation would be the “Road Closed No Thru Traffic” signs, so I imagine that would be tough to dispute. Good luck though!

 

[Irish#1]

My only thought was if you could take some pictures of the area to support your claim you might get out of it.


There use to be a traffic judge in Indy who ended up getting in trouble. Before court began, he would have the clerk announce to everyone that it was unlikely he would overturn the ticket and there could be additional costs added on, so everyone would go ahead and pay instead of fighting.

They found him guilty of intimidation and not allowing violators fair and due process.

When all is said and done paying the $175 is probably the prudent thing to do.