Who do you want to replace Brian Kelly?

[Bluto]

I wonder what this place would be like if Kelly went to LSU and started winning 11 or 12 games a year.

Swarbrick Revisted thread...Gruden for AD...lol

 

[BobbyMac]

If it werent for BK's 6 years remaining, I am quite confident Jack would have fired him this year.

As for LSU, I wonder if BK would take Malik with him if he went to LSU?

Now that's funny!

 

[IrishLax]

As I follow-up, I literally STARTED the conversation. Just absurd that you accuse me of adding nothing. I actually chuckled in my office just now at how salty you are.

I will say that you're basically the Michael Moore of the Brian Kelly situation. You were 100% correct that there was an impending disaster long before anyone else saw the writing on the wall. No one listened.

Like with Hillary Clinton, lots of us had reservations about Kelly and this year's team. I said we would be "very bad" this year... meaning like 7-8 wins against an easy schedule. None of us really appreciated just how much he had let everything go to hell until we were beaten over the head with it.

You had four main points in the BK Revisited OP:
2. "Never has a Plan B"... basically why we've blown leads in so many games this season, and why the second half offense is non-existent; and also why defense totally sucked in the beginning of the year.

3. "Play calling is horrible"... maybe not 'horrible' but it sure as hell isn't good. We have stretches of effective play marred by long stretches of "wtf are we doing?" and absolutely no offensive identity.

4. "How many elite schools are going to beat us or come close to beating us before we stop making excuses"... yup. Duke. Stanford. 'nuff said. Team building is just total crap and it has NOTHING to do with not being able to get players in. It has everything to do with lazy recruiting. Weis - who had no idea what he was doing and no experience but at least tried hard - consistently recruited better than Kelly.

5. "Fear we can't do better"... exactly what is plaguing people. You were wrong about last year being 7 or 8 wins, but otherwise spot on.

Much like with Clinton, people spent so much time rationalizing the negatives because of the few bright spots that the forest was missed for the trees. The forest is that "he hasn't built a program capable of consistent winning."

 

[Ndaccountant]

I wonder what this place would be like if Kelly went to LSU and started winning 11 or 12 games a year.

Wouldn't happen IMO. He is a good, not great coach that made his bed this year with his sins from the past. Based on his actions this year, there is no evidence that he has changed his style, thus indicating we should expect past performances to continue. Everyone touts the youth this year. Yes, ND is young. But what about last year? I think last year ND had a crap load of talent. Like, best in a generation at ND. He couldn't get past himself or his DC to get something more out of that team and we lost all three games we played against FEI top 10 teams. Our best wins? USC, Navy and Temple. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

If BK were to go to LSU, I would say he would, statistically, be no different to a little worse in games that matter. He would get the benefit of better cupcake games, but I just don't see him consistently beating A&M, Bama, Auburn, Florida and Ole Miss with enough regularly to produce anything better than Les. In fact, I would say he would be worse. But, he would at least bring offense, which is something they want I guess.

 

[gkIrish]

I will say that you're basically the Michael Moore of the Brian Kelly situation. You were 100% correct that there was an impending disaster long before anyone else saw the writing on the wall. No one listened.

snip

Lol I never thought I would get compared to Michael Moore in my life (aside from my beer belly). This is one of those positions I took where you pray you are wrong. I guess the reason I wanted people to start thinking about BK in a critical way is because I saw a lot of warning signs and wanted people to temper expectations.

I want to give a shout out to Irish Insanity, btw. He was the one guy that had my back when people crapped on me.

 

[NDRock]

I will say that you're basically the Michael Moore of the Brian Kelly situation. You were 100% correct that there was an impending disaster long before anyone else saw the writing on the wall. No one listened.

Like with Hillary Clinton, lots of us had reservations about Kelly and this year's team. I said we would be "very bad" this year... meaning like 7-8 wins against an easy schedule. None of us really appreciated just how much he had let everything go to hell until we were beaten over the head with it.

You had four main points in the BK Revisited OP:
2. "Never has a Plan B"... basically why we've blown leads in so many games this season, and why the second half offense is non-existent; and also why defense totally sucked in the beginning of the year.

3. "Play calling is horrible"... maybe not 'horrible' but it sure as hell isn't good. We have stretches of effective play marred by long stretches of "wtf are we doing?" and absolutely no offensive identity.

4. "How many elite schools are going to beat us or come close to beating us before we stop making excuses"... yup. Duke. Stanford. 'nuff said. Team building is just total crap and it has NOTHING to do with not being able to get players in. It has everything to do with lazy recruiting. Weis - who had no idea what he was doing and no experience but at least tried hard - consistently recruited better than Kelly.

5. "Fear we can't do better"... exactly what is plaguing people. You were wrong about last year being 7 or 8 wins, but otherwise spot on.

Much like with Clinton, people spent so much time rationalizing the negatives because of the few bright spots that the forest was missed for the trees. The forest is that "he hasn't built a program capable of consistent winning."

That's the thing about Kelly (and a lot of guys who move up the ranks), he never had to build a consistent program at the D-1 level. Kelly did what he did at his other two stops, peak by year 3. This time though, he stuck around and it hasn't been great. He should have gone to the NFL after 2012, probably could have had his pick of college jobs if it didn't work out in the pros.

 

[BobbyMac]

4. "How many elite schools are going to beat us or come close to beating us before we stop making excuses"... yup. Duke. Stanford. 'nuff said. Team building is just total crap and it has NOTHING to do with not being able to get players in. It has everything to do with lazy recruiting. Weis - who had no idea what he was doing and no experience but at least tried hard - consistently recruited better than Kelly.

I've never done a comparison of the now team and the mid-00 Weis teams? have you, just curious. As much as I agree with you that the staff is lazy on the trail (include slow and tight when it comes to offers) I still have to acknowledge that the average recruit rating is strong. There are only 6 teams with a 90 average, ND is 6th. The important difference is there isn't one Comp 5 star / turned All American difference maker on the squad. Any team that expects to be NC's has to have multiple players like that. Last year there was one - Jaylon, although to be fair Stanley and Fuller were AA's and Stanley could have been a 5 Star in HS. If you expect to be a playoff team, the obvious way to do it is get 2 or 3, Five stars at impact positions per year and then add the current ND mix of high-3 and 4 star recruits.

 

[IrishLax]

That's the thing about Kelly (and a lot of guys who move up the ranks), he never had to build a consistent program at the D-1 level. Kelly did what he did at his other two stops, peak by year 3. This time though, he stuck around and it hasn't been great. He should have gone to the NFL after 2012, probably could have had his pick of college jobs if it didn't work out in the pros.

This is a very, very good point. The only "long run" proof he had was at Grand Valley State. At his other stops, he was successful maximizing talent on the roster he inherited + supplementing a few of his own guys.

 

[Irishize]

If I was an LSU fan I'd want them to go after Brian Kelly on the condition that Aranda be retained. With the talent he could land for his offense that would be one hell of a combo.

Then you wouldn't be a true LSU fan. No way in hell that they'd be happy with Kelly. Something's terribly wrong if they can't do better than BK.

 

[Irishize]

Pass.

Those are at best marginal upgrades over Kelly and then you've locked yourself into another mediocre coach for at least 3-4 years.

Also I think you also have to at least make Urban say no. Throw everything plus the kitchen sink at him and hope for a miracle.

You're using the wrong bargaining chip. It's not money, it's academic exceptions and ND is not buckling on that. Legends like Meyer & Saban want to be an atmosphere conducive to winning. ND offers a great education & academic experience....that's it as far as advantages over most football powers.

 

[IrishLax]

I've never done a comparison of the now team and the mid-00 Weis teams? have you, just curious. As much as I agree with you that the staff is lazy on the trail (include slow and tight when it comes to offers) I still have to acknowledge that the average recruit rating is strong.

Yes, excluding transition years Weis had #4, #6, #1, #15 recruiting classes... Kelly has had #9, #18, #5, #11, #13 recruiting classes. This is per 247 composite... so before 247 existed, it averages the ratings of Rivals, Scout, and ESPN. So Weis averaged ~#6 class in the country thanks to three stellar classes and one in the teens. Kelly has averaged ~#11 class in the country. That's a significant difference.

There is no denying that Weis was a bad coach. But he also proved that it's much easier to recruit to ND than people believed it was looking at Willingham and Davies after Holtz.

The only reason we have a roster full of holes and bereft of talent at certain positions is the coaches and support staff doing the recruiting. If you put PJ Fleck in charge of this program, we'd sign a top 10 class next year guaranteed on sheer effort and hustle. This year's class, if it holds together, is destined for the mid teens looking historically at other classes with similar makeup.

 

[Irishize]

As for LSU, I wonder if BK would take Malik with him if he went to LSU?

I think that bridge has long since been burned. I could see Zaire fitting in nicely at Auburn.

 

[Shamrock Theories]

I think that bridge has long since been burned. I could see Zaire fitting in nicely at Auburn.

Lol I assume he was kidding. I'm sure MZ hates BK's guts at this point

 

[stlnd01]

Grain of salt...buddy of mine is a huge fsu fan. I asked him last night about jimbo to lsu rumors. He replied with.."no way jimbo is leaving for lsu. Money is all lsu could offer him. Everything else jimbo has better at fsu. Jimbo has hand picked new practice facility, new lockers,new scoreboard. Plus jimbo's kids doctors that they love are in tally. Doesn't even think jimbo will interview despite what jimmy sexton (jimbo's agent) spins" also added that names he's hearing on fsu boards for lsu job is brian Kelly and Kiffen.

Again grain of salt

Isn't Jimmy Sexton also BK's agent?
Hmmm....

 

[Wingman Ray]

Yes, excluding transition years Weis had #4, #6, #1, #15 recruiting classes... Kelly has had #9, #18, #5, #11, #13 recruiting classes. This is per 247 composite... so before 247 existed, it averages the ratings of Rivals, Scout, and ESPN. So Weis averaged ~#6 class in the country thanks to three stellar classes and one in the teens. Kelly has averaged ~#11 class in the country. That's a significant difference.

There is no denying that Weis was a bad coach. But he also proved that it's much easier to recruit to ND than people believed it was looking at Willingham and Davies after Holtz.

The only reason we have a roster full of holes and bereft of talent at certain positions is the coaches and support staff doing the recruiting. If you put PJ Fleck in charge of this program, we'd sign a top 10 class next year guaranteed on sheer effort and hustle. This year's class, if it holds together, is destined for the mid teens looking historically at other classes with similar makeup.

Did you see the post VT presser by BK? Hes either 100% defeated and knows hes done or knows 100% he has a job next year. I guarantee you ND will lose some players between now and signing day as well as get nothing new talent wise. BK or whomever follows will have to fill the holes with mid to low 3 stars.

 

[GBdomer]

Since Kelly has been hired, USC has had 4 coaches, 2 midseason firings, 2 athletic directors, a postseason ban, and is 60-30. Kelly is 59-30.

sorry if this was posted but this honestly flew my mind

 

[NDRock]

Isn't Jimmy Sexton also BK's agent?
Hmmm....

I thought Trace Armstrong was BK's agent.

 

[Irishize]

Lol I assume he was kidding. I'm sure MZ hates BK's guts at this point

I'd hope so. I'm returning from a hiatus so forgive my ignorance.

 

[Irishize]

Since Kelly has been hired, USC has had 4 coaches, 2 midseason firings, 2 athletic directors, a postseason ban, and is 60-30. Kelly is 59-30.

sorry if this was posted but this honestly flew my mind

And he's 4-2 vs SC...soon to be 4-3. The only beat downs in the series have been by SC. Kelly didn't have one win that didn't go into the fourth quarter despite the supposed coaching advantage.

I wonder how Weis would've fared against Kiffin, Orgeron Sark & Helton?

 

[Classic Irish]

I get that it is a hurdle that the ND brass would have to feel comfortable with but it's not like we're campaigning to bring in Art Briles or Petrino.......It was just NCAA violations for not being completely honest with the NCAA pertaining to players receiving benefits.

Yeah, players receiving impermissible benefits under your watch and then lying about it to the NCAA is pretty inconsequential. Sure.

 

[irishff1014]

Kelly and the DC at LSU might not be the best in the SEC but it would be pretty good.

 

[NDisme]

Yes, excluding transition years Weis had #4, #6, #1, #15 recruiting classes... Kelly has had #9, #18, #5, #11, #13 recruiting classes. This is per 247 composite... so before 247 existed, it averages the ratings of Rivals, Scout, and ESPN. So Weis averaged ~#6 class in the country thanks to three stellar classes and one in the teens. Kelly has averaged ~#11 class in the country. That's a significant difference.

There is no denying that Weis was a bad coach. But he also proved that it's much easier to recruit to ND than people believed it was looking at Willingham and Davies after Holtz.

The only reason we have a roster full of holes and bereft of talent at certain positions is the coaches and support staff doing the recruiting. If you put PJ Fleck in charge of this program, we'd sign a top 10 class next year guaranteed on sheer effort and hustle. This year's class, if it holds together, is destined for the mid teens looking historically at other classes with similar makeup.

I have been saying this a lot ever since I heard an interview Fleck had on Dave Kaplans show, I would run through a brick wall for that dude if I were a high school football player. Not even to mention what he has done with Corey Davis from my town in Wheaton. 2 star only had one other offer. One of the best WR in the country. Better than any receiver we have

 

[IrishLion]

Where's the Kelly/LSU thing coming from? Was it speculation that all the talking heads ran with, or is there legit info/rumor out there? I saw mention of a link to legit info earlier in the thread, but I did not see the link.

Also, Kelly is a hot topic everywhere right now. A few UC peeps mentioned trying to get him back if he's fired. I laughed it off, because there were bridges mutually burned between Cincy folk and BK, and of course he'd have his pick from quite a few Power 5 jobs. But the guys I was talking to became insistent that BK back to Cincy at some point "wouldn't be surprising to a few heavy hitters."

Usually I would not post info like the above from what I hear at UC functions, but I find it to be so far-fetched, despite how sure the guys sounded, that it's hilarious to me that we want BK gone, while his name is attached to so many different situations and rumors to save other programs.

 

[irishff1014]

Where's the Kelly/LSU thing coming from? Was it speculation that all the talking heads ran with, or is there legit info/rumor out there? I saw mention of a link to legit info earlier in the thread, but I did not see the link.

Also, Kelly is a hot topic everywhere right now. A few UC peeps mentioned trying to get him back if he's fired. I laughed it off, because there were bridges mutually burned between Cincy folk and BK, and of course he'd have his pick from quite a few Power 5 jobs. But the guys I was talking to became insistent that BK back to Cincy at some point "wouldn't be surprising to a few heavy hitters."

Usually I would not post info like the above from what I hear at UC functions, but I find it to be so far-fetched, despite how sure the guys sounded, that it's hilarious to me that we want BK gone, while his name is attached to so many different situations and rumors to save other programs.

People don't understand that ND football isn't the power house it used to be so their expectations are unrealistic. I like Kelly and have since we signed him. Kelly is a good coach but I think he let the position get his head to big and over thinks situations.

 

[loomis41973]

I'm not sure, but i think if a coach thought he wouldn't be here next year he wouldn't be buying a new boat. That's what happened today.

 

[Bluto]

I'm not sure, but i think if a coach thought he wouldn't be here next year he wouldn't be buying a new boat. That's what happened today.

Sailing off into the sunset?

 

[NCND]

Since Kelly has been hired, USC has had 4 coaches, 2 midseason firings, 2 athletic directors, a postseason ban, and is 60-30. Kelly is 59-30.

sorry if this was posted but this honestly flew my mind

Saw this yesterday... tells you all u need to know. If ND standard is championships, get rid of this guy. If not, bring him back and go 8-5. Ugh.

 

[tussin]

Since Kelly has been hired, USC has had 4 coaches, 2 midseason firings, 2 athletic directors, a postseason ban, and is 60-30. Kelly is 59-30.

sorry if this was posted but this honestly flew my mind

INSANE STAT.

Thanks for posting. Fire him now.

 

[pumpdog20]

I'm not sure, but i think if a coach thought he wouldn't be here next year he wouldn't be buying a new boat. That's what happened today.

Is he buying a boat to burn it?

 

[GATTACA!]

Is he buying a boat to burn it?

No he's buying it so ND can row the boat!

PJ Fleck confirmed!