What's Wrong With ND's Punt Return Game?
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TheTurningPoint
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Depth.
When BeamerBall was at its peak, Va Tech was one of the deepest teams in the country. ND I would say is finally there depth wise to be able to put more starters and talented kids in the 2 Deep on special teams. I think Davonte Neal is one of the most explosive kids in the country, but at the sametime he never showed he had that game breaking ability. (he would have played snaps on offense). ND went to the Natl Title game without having any type of Punt Return game. They did well on punt coverage, and thats what matters. Giving up big plays on SpTeams is the killer.
I dont think there will be a major turn in the punt return game this year, but in 2014, I think there will be a bigger emphasis put on it.
When BeamerBall was at its peak, Va Tech was one of the deepest teams in the country. ND I would say is finally there depth wise to be able to put more starters and talented kids in the 2 Deep on special teams. I think Davonte Neal is one of the most explosive kids in the country, but at the sametime he never showed he had that game breaking ability. (he would have played snaps on offense). ND went to the Natl Title game without having any type of Punt Return game. They did well on punt coverage, and thats what matters. Giving up big plays on SpTeams is the killer.
I dont think there will be a major turn in the punt return game this year, but in 2014, I think there will be a bigger emphasis put on it.
woolybug25
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That's the big point. One turnover on special teams can cost you a game. We have shown in the last couple years that we don't have the depth capable of filling our punt team up with playmakers. So the chances of a big return hasn't been very likely. So instead of throwing away our great defenses work, we have protected the ball. I want to have the ability to have good ST play soon, but I certaintly don't think that we would have had the season we had last year if we were turning the ball over on ST's.
Our offense did a good enough job turning the ball over on their own.
irishog77
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Sorry, I don't buy the "lack of depth" argument in defense of the woeful punt return performance.
I said it awhile ago and I'll say it again, I fear BK treats and gives lip service to ST the way Chuck did with defense. Until there is improvement, I don't think a concerted effort is being made to truly improve upon the product on the field. Or perhaps, BK and his staff are just not very good at coaching ST's. I think hiring an actual, legit ST coach is something that shouldn't be taken off the table either.
I'll concede that in order for the ST to improve, the O or the D may have to suffer some consequences due to more time, effort, and energy being placed on ST's. If a true ST coach is in the fold, I think those concerns could and would be lessened.
I'll also say that sometimes just plain ol' luck factors into the equation for successful ST play or successful punt returns. I think a very talented kicker (say Scott Bentley) can come into a program and improve upon some of the failures a team has faced. In college football, it is so tough to get consistent, quality kickers year after year. I think the same can be said for return men. Blockers? I think that boils down more to the coaching and overall philosophy of the ST system within the program.
This topic has been brought up and talked about often on here. I know every couple of months (or almost weekly during the season), a poster brings up stats demonstrating how bad or how inefficient some of the ST (but mainly, punt return specifically) are. Teams with a lot less talent and quality depth perform better than ND. Their O or their D, however, may possibly suffer because of it though.
I'm not sure Virginia Tech is a great example here. They were, for all intents and purposes, the gold standard for ST play for quite a few years. I don't ND has to be that good on ST. But I would like to see them better. I think one reason Beamer emphasized ST was because VT was basically a nothing program. Beamer knew one way to sort of "even the playing field" for his less talented, lower program to beat more talented, higher programs was to be a consistent, disciplined team that would also beat you in ST's. Thus, he could eke out victories over some the traditionally "bigger boys." And I remember VT having good special teams play in the mid 90's, late 90's, early 00's, mid 00's, and late 00's. I don't think they were necessarily "deeper" in 1996 or 1997 than they were in 2012.
Ultimately, yes, the game of football does have 3 phases-- O, D, and ST. I've never bought that ST's is 1/3 of the game. 100 out of 100 times I would take superior O and D to ST's. So, if BK and staff keep producing great D and a good enough (hopefully great too) O, then I'm fine with punt return struggling some. And I agree that when comparing the two, giving up the big plays on ST doesn't outweigh getting a big play. So again, if ND can play pretty decent ST's, without surrendering big plays, then I think that's ok too.
When analyzing ST play compared to O and D and relative to wins and losses and national trends, I think I may be okay with ND running a series of John Goodmans back there, year after year. I hope that's not the case, but BK has and is showing that he knows what he's doing overall with the team. I care more about W's than punt return yardage, and if the current system allows that...then more power to him.
Sorry for the long rant.
I said it awhile ago and I'll say it again, I fear BK treats and gives lip service to ST the way Chuck did with defense. Until there is improvement, I don't think a concerted effort is being made to truly improve upon the product on the field. Or perhaps, BK and his staff are just not very good at coaching ST's. I think hiring an actual, legit ST coach is something that shouldn't be taken off the table either.
I'll concede that in order for the ST to improve, the O or the D may have to suffer some consequences due to more time, effort, and energy being placed on ST's. If a true ST coach is in the fold, I think those concerns could and would be lessened.
I'll also say that sometimes just plain ol' luck factors into the equation for successful ST play or successful punt returns. I think a very talented kicker (say Scott Bentley) can come into a program and improve upon some of the failures a team has faced. In college football, it is so tough to get consistent, quality kickers year after year. I think the same can be said for return men. Blockers? I think that boils down more to the coaching and overall philosophy of the ST system within the program.
This topic has been brought up and talked about often on here. I know every couple of months (or almost weekly during the season), a poster brings up stats demonstrating how bad or how inefficient some of the ST (but mainly, punt return specifically) are. Teams with a lot less talent and quality depth perform better than ND. Their O or their D, however, may possibly suffer because of it though.
I'm not sure Virginia Tech is a great example here. They were, for all intents and purposes, the gold standard for ST play for quite a few years. I don't ND has to be that good on ST. But I would like to see them better. I think one reason Beamer emphasized ST was because VT was basically a nothing program. Beamer knew one way to sort of "even the playing field" for his less talented, lower program to beat more talented, higher programs was to be a consistent, disciplined team that would also beat you in ST's. Thus, he could eke out victories over some the traditionally "bigger boys." And I remember VT having good special teams play in the mid 90's, late 90's, early 00's, mid 00's, and late 00's. I don't think they were necessarily "deeper" in 1996 or 1997 than they were in 2012.
Ultimately, yes, the game of football does have 3 phases-- O, D, and ST. I've never bought that ST's is 1/3 of the game. 100 out of 100 times I would take superior O and D to ST's. So, if BK and staff keep producing great D and a good enough (hopefully great too) O, then I'm fine with punt return struggling some. And I agree that when comparing the two, giving up the big plays on ST doesn't outweigh getting a big play. So again, if ND can play pretty decent ST's, without surrendering big plays, then I think that's ok too.
When analyzing ST play compared to O and D and relative to wins and losses and national trends, I think I may be okay with ND running a series of John Goodmans back there, year after year. I hope that's not the case, but BK has and is showing that he knows what he's doing overall with the team. I care more about W's than punt return yardage, and if the current system allows that...then more power to him.
Sorry for the long rant.
I don't buy the lack of depth argument either. But Scott Bentley as a reference?
He hit 65% of his FGs as a FSU freshman. He missed a FG in the '93 loss to ND. Overall Bentley hit 68.8% of his FGs. He would have been booted from ND over his criminal sex tape recording.
Kelly has had 3 "consistent, quality" FG kickers at ND ALL of whom have done considerably better than Bentley. Two he inherited, and two are still on the roster.
By comparison:
Ruffner 82.5% #1 ND All-Time, #1 ND Most Consecutive FGs 23
Tausch 82.35% #2 ND All-Time, #2 ND Most Consecutive FGs 14
Brindza 74.2%
Bentley 68.8%
I can think of at least three games we lost, mainly due to fumbled punts. A Holtz team lost to Air Force, the South Florida fiasco and an Ohio State game. In the Ohio State game we were out playing them until a lost punt turned the game around, we got behind and never could make it up. There are many more over the years.
Special teams are an important part of the game, especially in close games and it is almost impossible to be a consistent top ten team without an outstanding special team.
Special team practice is like practicing chip shots in golf. Not a lot of fun but if you want to be a good golfer you have to do it.
Old Man Mike
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Re: punt returns.
1). You must get the opponent to punt, and from some long distance;
2). It would be nice to get the opponent occasionally to punt on 4th and greater than 15 yards, so you could release the hounds;
3). You must get the punter to fear you. He must think that he is not alone on the practice field with nobody rushing;
4). Your punt returner doesn't have to be fast [although Zbikowski was REAL fast, and constantly ignored about his speed with the same prejudice that Harrison Smith faced]. Your punt returner must be strong and athletic. The key to a return, other than forcing a low bad punt, is ripping through the first one or two opponents. Once through, all our guys are fast enough to roll for a while;
5). You must do at least a minimally acceptable job at slowing the outside rushers. This is not just the extreme outside "gunners" [we actually sometimes DO slow THEM down], but the defenders just inside them, who are often the actual first-arriving guys. These "other defenders" can run down field against us because there is no fear that we are a threat to block the punt.
Our problems here are caused by Diaco's conservative bend-don't-break defense, Kelly's conservative get-the-ball-regardless philosophy [i.e. no penalties or falling for fakes], and Kelly's conservative give-your-studs-a-rest-when-you-can policy. Hmmmm.... do I see a pattern there?
Coach believes that he can beat you offensively from any position on the field, because his system is "smarter" than yours. All he needs is smart players, who really know the plays. Diaco believes that he can beat you defensively mano-a-mano AND systemically as long as you can't get behind him. All he thinks that he needs is smart players who really know the play-fits. In this, Kelly is generally correct, but hasn't had the critical player. In this Diaco is generally correct, until he runs up against someone who can see the weaknesses in his precise inflexible "Clockwork Mechanism".
In my opinion, neither of these guys are likely to change, especially Kelly. Diaco will be forced to modify his approach because it was exposed. Thankfully he CAN do something about this, since his DBacks are more able to cope "on their own". [Especially if Farley gets his act together]. The relevance of this to punting is that we might get more stops closer to "their" goal-line and at long 4ths-and-x.
Kelly could help the return game on his end by being willing to put a powerful athlete [obviously who can catch] back there [Bryant? Hood when he arrives in another year? Baratti? McDaniel would be stronger and more fearless than those we've had. Can Onwualu catch?]. Kelly could also help by putting our best speed at the edges and going for the block "regularly". These "punt blitz" packages/ rushing options were Beamer's "secret"; those plus great speed on the rush.
1). You must get the opponent to punt, and from some long distance;
2). It would be nice to get the opponent occasionally to punt on 4th and greater than 15 yards, so you could release the hounds;
3). You must get the punter to fear you. He must think that he is not alone on the practice field with nobody rushing;
4). Your punt returner doesn't have to be fast [although Zbikowski was REAL fast, and constantly ignored about his speed with the same prejudice that Harrison Smith faced]. Your punt returner must be strong and athletic. The key to a return, other than forcing a low bad punt, is ripping through the first one or two opponents. Once through, all our guys are fast enough to roll for a while;
5). You must do at least a minimally acceptable job at slowing the outside rushers. This is not just the extreme outside "gunners" [we actually sometimes DO slow THEM down], but the defenders just inside them, who are often the actual first-arriving guys. These "other defenders" can run down field against us because there is no fear that we are a threat to block the punt.
Our problems here are caused by Diaco's conservative bend-don't-break defense, Kelly's conservative get-the-ball-regardless philosophy [i.e. no penalties or falling for fakes], and Kelly's conservative give-your-studs-a-rest-when-you-can policy. Hmmmm.... do I see a pattern there?
Coach believes that he can beat you offensively from any position on the field, because his system is "smarter" than yours. All he needs is smart players, who really know the plays. Diaco believes that he can beat you defensively mano-a-mano AND systemically as long as you can't get behind him. All he thinks that he needs is smart players who really know the play-fits. In this, Kelly is generally correct, but hasn't had the critical player. In this Diaco is generally correct, until he runs up against someone who can see the weaknesses in his precise inflexible "Clockwork Mechanism".
In my opinion, neither of these guys are likely to change, especially Kelly. Diaco will be forced to modify his approach because it was exposed. Thankfully he CAN do something about this, since his DBacks are more able to cope "on their own". [Especially if Farley gets his act together]. The relevance of this to punting is that we might get more stops closer to "their" goal-line and at long 4ths-and-x.
Kelly could help the return game on his end by being willing to put a powerful athlete [obviously who can catch] back there [Bryant? Hood when he arrives in another year? Baratti? McDaniel would be stronger and more fearless than those we've had. Can Onwualu catch?]. Kelly could also help by putting our best speed at the edges and going for the block "regularly". These "punt blitz" packages/ rushing options were Beamer's "secret"; those plus great speed on the rush.
Never understood why they have not given Cam a chance to return punts other than about 3 practices his freshman year. Football is not track. He was probably the most dangerous return man in the entire state of Texas at the 5A level for two years against plenty of D1 players at some of the top HS football programs in the nation. Actually, I've never understood why they haven't given him a bunch of other opportunities too. Maybe this year.
irishog77
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I just threw the Bentley reference out there because after 3 Wide-Right's, the perception was sort of out there that if fsu had a kicker, they would have been able to get a Natty...or 2...or 3. That that was what was holding them back. Bentley was a big time kicking recruit and he hopefully would solve that problem. He came and they won a Natty (although, yeah, I don't think he was what got them over the hump). Then later Janikowski came...and he was a great kicker.
I know BK has had some success with FG kickers in his time at ND. I don't think, however, that that correlates to him being a good ST coach. As I said before, I think a lot of the success of FG kickers on a team (especially if you try to fit in their impact on W's and L's) at the collegiate level boils down to dumb luck. I think you could argue that ND, in BK's time, has been pretty good at FG, decent to pretty good on punt and kickoff coverage, decent on KO return, and abysmal on punt return. The sum of my inexact poll? I'd say around a 3 on a 5-point scale. Along with good D and O, I think a 3 is good enough to win a Natty. Would I like to see better ST play? Absolutely. But at this point, I don't think it's hindering them from winning one.
irishog77
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Interesting.
Lacking an absolutely electric playmaker back there to return punts, I think a guy that is a strong runner and has great balance is the next best thing. I think people may be giving Zibikowski perhaps a bit too much credit for his speed. The guy certainly wasn't slow, but I think his best attributes were his strength and balance. I think virtually any player the coaches have back there could be a threat to take it to the house, once in the open field, but the bigger issue is...well, getting into the open field. I think consistent 10, 15, 20 yard returns are the key. Could Cam be that guy? Sure. Was John Goodman ever going to be that guy? No. Could Michael Floyd have been? Sure. Theo Riddick? Maybe so. Would Neal have been the electric guy? Maybe. I honestly have no idea what BK and staff are actually doing in their coaching segments here. Are they coaching up and emphasizing the ability to catch and secure the ball (Goodman)...emphasizing catching it and taking it to the house (Neal)...or something in between? I think Cam could be a Zibikowski-type guy. Will he (or somebody else) have the chance to show it?
TheTurningPoint
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Lack of depth did hurt.
1. ND has burnt countless Redshirts over the years just to provide depth across the board.
A. Romeo Okwara - No reason to play him last year bc it was supposed to be a year to get him bigger and stronger. ND needed a athletic, strong guy that could get down the field.
B. Bennett Jackson - He was utilized as a KR and spteams demon his freshman year. Did he deserve to get on the field and make a difference that year? Sure. But, would you love to have him be back next year?
C. Justin Ferguson - He is no longer with the program, but he didnt see the field on offense other than the first game of the year and the Wake game. Started on Kick Return, and Punt Return. Could have saved a year there with a upper classman stepping up
D. Troy Niklas - He was counted on to start the MSU game when Shembo's dad had a health situation. Throwing a kid out there that really had no business being out there yet. Esp when there were upper classman at the position.
E. Josh Atkinson - He needed a year to get his feet wet. My opinion, he wasnt quite ready for spteams his freshman year and could have used the year to adjust. Jalen Brown wasnt out there for a reason, and Josh shouldnt have been out there as they were about at the same place in their development.
F. Chase Hounshell - Lack of depth along the line his freshman year, caused him to get his first PT halfway through the season. Kid is a team player and didnt think twice. But theres a strong arguement that he wasnt ready to be thrown out there. I think he handled his business as all the kids on this list did, but at the sametime theres more benefit in them not playing.
I understand that playing freshmen on SpTeams is a good thing bc its gets them on the bus, experience, but also at the sametime these kids were thrown out there bc of a lack of depth. Look at guys that have got a "redshirt" year...their first season goes smooth and they are where they need to be.
In 2012, we moved Russell, Farley to the secondary bc of lack of depth. They performed well and over achieved, but Russell never played CB before he got to ND, Farley had about 8 months of exp. Dont get me wrong it worked out very well, and they earned it. But depth quality depth is a problem for ND. THey didnt hit last year leading up to the Title game bc of it. Lack of depth hurts everywhere.
The 2013 recruiting class was HUGE in giving a boost to #s on the roster at key positions while providing quality. And 2014 class is stacking up to reinforce those #s. Kellys first few classes were about getting starting caliber players and now the staff can recruit depth. Every team needs the 5 star DE or LB, but you also need that 3 star kid with potential once he fills out and finds his position. The kid thats gonna bust his *** everyday in practice so when someone gets hurt, then the guys in the 2 and 3 deep can step in without much of a drop off. Thats why Bama reloads, usc had their dynasty run, lsu contends every year, Oregon has a rock solid program. NDs first 22 compare to anyone in the country, but those 22 cant play every snap of every game. You saw it with Bama, they got worn down, and the 2nd team guys just werent on par yet.
All that trickles down to SpTeams. Kids playing before their ready and not getting a year to develop. Everyone loves a good walk on story, but there shouldnt be as many walkons playing as ND had recently on SpTeams. I think you will see ND SpTeams get a lot better on coverage than they already are with more speed and athleticism going to be put out there. And eventually the Punt Return game will get better with kids that fill the roles that a team needs to have a successful return game. Kelly couldnt put starters on spteams bc he couldnt afford to lose them, or needed to get that extra few mins of rest. ND is getting there.
1. ND has burnt countless Redshirts over the years just to provide depth across the board.
A. Romeo Okwara - No reason to play him last year bc it was supposed to be a year to get him bigger and stronger. ND needed a athletic, strong guy that could get down the field.
B. Bennett Jackson - He was utilized as a KR and spteams demon his freshman year. Did he deserve to get on the field and make a difference that year? Sure. But, would you love to have him be back next year?
C. Justin Ferguson - He is no longer with the program, but he didnt see the field on offense other than the first game of the year and the Wake game. Started on Kick Return, and Punt Return. Could have saved a year there with a upper classman stepping up
D. Troy Niklas - He was counted on to start the MSU game when Shembo's dad had a health situation. Throwing a kid out there that really had no business being out there yet. Esp when there were upper classman at the position.
E. Josh Atkinson - He needed a year to get his feet wet. My opinion, he wasnt quite ready for spteams his freshman year and could have used the year to adjust. Jalen Brown wasnt out there for a reason, and Josh shouldnt have been out there as they were about at the same place in their development.
F. Chase Hounshell - Lack of depth along the line his freshman year, caused him to get his first PT halfway through the season. Kid is a team player and didnt think twice. But theres a strong arguement that he wasnt ready to be thrown out there. I think he handled his business as all the kids on this list did, but at the sametime theres more benefit in them not playing.
I understand that playing freshmen on SpTeams is a good thing bc its gets them on the bus, experience, but also at the sametime these kids were thrown out there bc of a lack of depth. Look at guys that have got a "redshirt" year...their first season goes smooth and they are where they need to be.
In 2012, we moved Russell, Farley to the secondary bc of lack of depth. They performed well and over achieved, but Russell never played CB before he got to ND, Farley had about 8 months of exp. Dont get me wrong it worked out very well, and they earned it. But depth quality depth is a problem for ND. THey didnt hit last year leading up to the Title game bc of it. Lack of depth hurts everywhere.
The 2013 recruiting class was HUGE in giving a boost to #s on the roster at key positions while providing quality. And 2014 class is stacking up to reinforce those #s. Kellys first few classes were about getting starting caliber players and now the staff can recruit depth. Every team needs the 5 star DE or LB, but you also need that 3 star kid with potential once he fills out and finds his position. The kid thats gonna bust his *** everyday in practice so when someone gets hurt, then the guys in the 2 and 3 deep can step in without much of a drop off. Thats why Bama reloads, usc had their dynasty run, lsu contends every year, Oregon has a rock solid program. NDs first 22 compare to anyone in the country, but those 22 cant play every snap of every game. You saw it with Bama, they got worn down, and the 2nd team guys just werent on par yet.
All that trickles down to SpTeams. Kids playing before their ready and not getting a year to develop. Everyone loves a good walk on story, but there shouldnt be as many walkons playing as ND had recently on SpTeams. I think you will see ND SpTeams get a lot better on coverage than they already are with more speed and athleticism going to be put out there. And eventually the Punt Return game will get better with kids that fill the roles that a team needs to have a successful return game. Kelly couldnt put starters on spteams bc he couldnt afford to lose them, or needed to get that extra few mins of rest. ND is getting there.
NDWorld247
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Lack of depth is certainly part of it. To argue otherwise is foolish considering Brian Kelly is on record saying as much.
However, I also believe ST philosophy is part of it as well. Here's a story from earlier this Spring with BK talking about what he learned from Alabama's special teams in the NCG: Kelly puts the focus on special teams this spring | Inside the Irish
This leads me to believe that BK was one of those coaches that, regardless of depth, didn't necessarily put his best players on special teams. I'll use two personal examples to explain how coaches view special teams differently.
1. I can remember my first "special teams" practice of my life. It was my first year of Pop Warner and the HC was setting up our kickoff team. He brought the 11 best players to the middle of the field and gave us a speech about how special teams were "special" and the best players were going to play on them. Mind you, this is Pop Warner football where special teams is a great place to get the worst kids on the team their mandatory # of plays. This coach was the best coach I ever had and I played in HS and college.
2. My first year of HS coaching I was the special teams coordinator. I remembered that speech from my Pop Warner coach and put our best players on special teams the first time we practiced them. After practice, we had our usual coach's meeting and the HC gave me a list of guys he wanted me to put on special teams. His reasoning was these were kids that worked hard and were not starting on offense or defense. I understood his reasoning, but disagreed with his philosophy as my area of responsibility was special teams and I wanted us to win that part of the game. I argued my point and we came to some compromises on the players he wanted on there.
Now, obviously Pop Warner and HS football are much different than BCS level college football, but this is just an example of how coaches view special teams differently. You could substitute my Pop Warner coach with Nick Saban and my HS coach with BK and the point remains the same. I think our special teams play will improve because BK's philosophy has changed since last season. Having better depth across the board will obviously help as well.
Re: Okwara, burning his redshirt on special teams was ridiculous. I rarely criticize the coaching staff but I cannot fathom the logic in this decision. And, good point re: Jackson. I'd love for him to have another year of eligibility next season.
irishog77
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Yep-- I agree with you and TP and it's something we can probably all agree upon in a ST's discussion. And he's supposedly going through a position switch this year, one which will require him to add significant weight. If he is moving to DE, then please, please redshirt him this year.
TheTurningPoint
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100% agree...but not having depth doesnt allow ND to put starters or "impact" guys out there for special teams. Thats all I was saying. When you have 2 guys that could start, EX: Councell, Spond...you are more flexible on different packages if you wanted Spond and Councell on punt return. If Spond goes down Councell wont have a huge drop off. last year...there would have been a noticeable dropoff. All I was getting at haha
Booslum31
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I don't think we should be burning obvious red-shirts on STs. Not really knowing what kind of attention STs is getting during the week...does anyone know if these types of things are emphasized?
1. Time during practice
2. Film work
3. Grading for weekly game performance
4. Proper Recognition for performance
5. unique game-planning for each game
6. etc.
...The answer may be "Duh, of course they are" but missing on any of them may come across to the athlete that STs aren't that important. As far as depth being the reason for our poor performance...not sure where I land on that. With a two deep roster we should be able to execute better on punt returns. Some starters should be on that team. If it's fear of getting a player hurt on a punt return, I would say that only the punt-returner stands to increase their chances of injury. If you make any concessions on who should represent on a special teams play; you are in a sense conceding that STs aren't as important. I like what NDWorld's Pop Warner coach had to say about approaching STs.
Emcee77
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Interesting. That seems like a crew of likely candidates to me. I'd like to see Kinlaw get a look too.
rtrn2glory
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i like fuller in that list of the 4 with prosise a close 2nd personally
chicago51
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What is wrong the return game?
For one we are ultraconservative in terms of watching for fakes that we usually play punt safe. Therefore we never get any kind of rush for a block attempt or enough blocking for a good return. We end up having to fair catch a lot.
For one we are ultraconservative in terms of watching for fakes that we usually play punt safe. Therefore we never get any kind of rush for a block attempt or enough blocking for a good return. We end up having to fair catch a lot.
Ironman8
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No thanks on having a potential starting corner at our PR. Let him focus on D. Unless he is an absolute game breaker back there (which Cole isn't), I don't want a starter on D ever returning punts or kicks. We should have plenty of other able bodied candidates at WR and RB.
GoIrish41
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He can't catch when he doesn't have to put his hand in the air first. I'd be worried every time he went back there to field a kick.
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Ironman8
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Alabama has had Christion Jones returning punts the last couple of years. Before that, it was Maize. The only CB I can remember for them returning punts is Javier Arenas, who was a game breaker typer guy back there. Clover covered glasses aside, Cole Luke is not the punt returner Javier Arenas is, and never will be. The point is we don't need him to be, and I personally don't want him to even try. Focus on CB young man, and let a WR or RB return punts.
Ironman8
Jaqen H'ghar
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I agree he could be pretty talented at it, but I would just rather have a young first time corner focusing solely on that side of the ball + not opening himself to further injury, especially when we do have other talented options who either aren't as vital or as inexperienced at their position (Carlisle, Prosise, Hunter, Fuller, etc).
Emcee77
latress on the men-jay
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I'm with Ironman on this. I don't think you want a starter and critical player returning punts unless he is either a) so good it at that he is a legitimate threat to score or break off a big play every time he touches the ball or b) essentially the only capable player you can put back there. I don't think either proviso applies here.
My expectation is that Cole will be one of our top 2 corners next year, with a large gap between the top 2 and the third best corner. That makes him a critical player. We really don't want him risking injury on special teams when we have other options who are just as good. I'd much prefer to see any of TJ's 4 take on the role.
Btw, how did Cole Luke even come up? Did TJ mention him, or no?
My expectation is that Cole will be one of our top 2 corners next year, with a large gap between the top 2 and the third best corner. That makes him a critical player. We really don't want him risking injury on special teams when we have other options who are just as good. I'd much prefer to see any of TJ's 4 take on the role.
Btw, how did Cole Luke even come up? Did TJ mention him, or no?
Booslum31
New member
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We need to try and block a damn punt...haven't seen one attempt in two years. When the punt team has to stick around to block they aren't releasing freely and flying down the field. We need to also stop the gunners from a free release...this requires a special guy with some good coaching on how it's done. Our opponents gunners are getting to the return man at the same time as the damn ball.