USC recruiting and everything else

[arrowryan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/jhopkins247">jhopkins247</a> @<a href="https://twitter.com/k_fitts93">k_fitts93</a> wish I was visiting this weekend <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%23NDOfficial">#NDOfficial</a></p>— Nics ✌ (@NicoFalah) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicoFalah/status/294901206868971521">January 25, 2013</a></blockquote>
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I thought this was interesting.

Down goes Troy

 

[beryirish]

Probably was interested but since ND filled their Oline spots up so quick there's no shot for him and/or interest anymore.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

[Ed O car commercial goes here]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HX7wzhMvbzo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[irishog77]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HX7wzhMvbzo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is just a video of him selling Hummers. Where's the vid of him giving Hummers?












Wait. I probably don't want to see that video.

 

[Irish YJ]

[Ed O car commercial goes here]

 

[Meacon Irish]

O'Shea Chevrolet!

 

[IrishinTN]

This is just a video of him selling Hummers. Where's the vid of him giving Hummers?

Wait. I probably don't want to see that video.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Things are officially out of hand on the USC 247 board. I guess Leon McQuay's dad said something about it would be nice if USC would hire Vernon Hargreves dad so VH3 could join McQuay and Ramsey and Hawkins at USC.

This was then spun into the idea that there is a surprise visitor coming this weekend that is top secret and they are convinced it could Hargreves. But that is not even the worst part. If Hargreves' dad was hired by SC, coaches kids get free tuition so essentially VH3 would not have to take up a scholly.

 

[Emcee77]

LOL! Out. Of. Hand.

 

[IrishLax]

Things are officially out of hand on the USC 247 board. I guess Leon McQuay's dad said something about it would be nice if USC would hire Vernon Hargreves dad so VH3 could join McQuay and Ramsey and Hawkins at USC.

This was then spun into the idea that there is a surprise visitor coming this weekend that is top secret and they are convinced it could Hargreves. But that is not even the worst part. If Hargreves' dad was hired by SC, coaches kids get free tuition so essentially VH3 would not have to take up a scholly.

OK I'm sorry but how the hell is it aloowed to give a kid free tuition just because you feel like it? Why wouldn't ND pass a rule "free tuition to African Americans from (city X)" to put kids on scholarship without counting against the scholarship count? What a joke on every level.

 

[irishff1014]

Oh Boy

 

[beryirish]

Things are officially out of hand on the USC 247 board. I guess Leon McQuay's dad said something about it would be nice if USC would hire Vernon Hargreves dad so VH3 could join McQuay and Ramsey and Hawkins at USC.

This was then spun into the idea that there is a surprise visitor coming this weekend that is top secret and they are convinced it could Hargreves. But that is not even the worst part. If Hargreves' dad was hired by SC, coaches kids get free tuition so essentially VH3 would not have to take up a scholly.

OK I'm sorry but how the hell is it aloowed to give a kid free tuition just because you feel like it? Why wouldn't ND pass a rule "free tuition to African Americans from (city X)" to put kids on scholarship without counting against the scholarship count? What a joke on every level.

The free tuition isn't a new thing.

A lot of universitities provide it.

My friend is a nurse at University of Toledo Medical Center. She likes it but she'd rather be closer to home but she sticks with it because since she is an UT employee her kids can go to UT for free.

USC rumors of hiring Vernon's dad would make him an employee of the university and therefore his kids can go there for free if that is their policy.

Sleezy but to me I guess it's legal.

 

[tadman95]

The free tuition isn't a new thing.

A lot of universitities provide it.

My friend is a nurse at University of Toledo Medical Center. She likes it but she'd rather be closer to home but she sticks with it because since she is an UT employee her kids can go to UT for free.

USC rumors of hiring Vernon's dad would make him an employee of the university and therefore his kids can go there for free if that is there policy.

Sleezy but to me I guess it's legal.

I believe you're right but I wonder if the NCAA will allow it to not count against the scholarship limit.

 

[Emcee77]

I believe you're right but I wonder if the NCAA will allow it to not count against the scholarship limit.

Yeah I'm skeptical that this would fly ... isn't there a rule that if you play both football and another sport, your scholarship must count toward football? That seems to indicate to me that the NCAA is not inclined to allow programs to violate the spirit of the 85 rule via creative loopholes like that.

But it does make sense, just logically.

You know how we can test this? ask Bama fans. Vinnie Sunseri's dad Sal Sunseri coached at Bama when Vinnie enrolled, but left for UT before the 2012 season, right? Did Vinnie count toward the 85 limit when he enrolled? Did his status change when his dad left?

I don't know personally know any Bama fans who could answer this. Any of you who do and might be willing to ask about this, there'd be reps in it for you.

 

[gkIrish]

I like how the OPer has since been banned

 

[NOLAIrish]

I believe you're right but I wonder if the NCAA will allow it to not count against the scholarship limit.

From the NCAA bylaws:

15.5.1.2 Football or Basketball, Varsity Competition. In football or basketball, a student-athlete who was recruited by the awarding institution and who receives institutional financial aid (as set forth in Bylaw 15.02.4.1) granted without regard in any degree to athletics ability does not have to be counted until the student-athlete engages in varsity intercollegiate competition (as opposed to freshman, B-team, subvarsity, intramural or club competition) in those sports.

Even if you stash him for a little while, he becomes a counter the second he sets foot on the field.

 

[Emcee77]

From the NCAA bylaws:



Even if you stash him for a little while, he becomes a counter the second he sets foot on the field.

Nice find, NOLA. I had a feeling it couldn't be so easy to work around the 85 limit. Reps.

 

[woolybug25]

From the NCAA bylaws:



Even if you stash him for a little while, he becomes a counter the second he sets foot on the field.

Man, correct me if i'm wrong, but to me that reads like if a kid gets a non-athletic scholarship and redshirts, then they are not counted against the numbers until they actually play?

If so, then we should be actively getting academic scholarships for our redshirt guys. Our recruits are much more likely to receive these types of scholarships because of our academic requirements.

Interesting tidbit.

 

[NOLAIrish]

Man, correct me if i'm wrong, but to me that reads like if a kid gets a non-athletic scholarship and redshirts, then they are not counted against the numbers until they actually play?

If so, then we should be actively getting academic scholarships for our redshirt guys. Our recruits are much more likely to receive these types of scholarships because of our academic requirements.

Interesting tidbit.

The wording is slightly ambiguous, i.e. "varsity intercollegiate competition" implies an actual game but could also be read simply as participating in intercollegiate sports at a varsity level (practicing). My bet is that since we don't see academically inferior schools using the clause to exceed the 85-player limit, the NCAA applies the latter interpretation. Or there's another applicable rule somewhere else in the bylaws -- I didn't see one, but the NCAA doesn't provide a searchable copy, so I may have overlooked it.

We touched on a related topic a few weeks back in the thread about ND's recruiting disadvantages. A relaxed interpretation of the bylaw would actually make things harder on ND, unfortunately. The non-counting aid rule essentially requires the school to certify that the student-athlete was reviewed as if he were a non-athlete and deemed deserving of the aid. We'd basically have to prove that the athlete would've not only been admitted to ND without athletics but also would've been admitted on scholarship (I think WhiskeyJack also noted that ND may not offer full academic scholarships).

Nice find, NOLA. I had a feeling it couldn't be so easy to work around the 85 limit. Reps.

Thanks, I appreciate it

 

[NDinL.A.]

It would count against the scholly limit guys. C'mon, think about it. He was a recruited athlete. If this were true, you could hire a dad as a janitor and his son would get a free education while freeing up a scholly. Makes no sense. This happens in basketball a lot more than football, and from what I know, they still count against the scholly numbers.

Don't believe everything you read on USC message boards LOL...

 

[Emcee77]

It would count against the scholly limit guys. C'mon, think about it. He was a recruited athlete. If this were true, you could hire a dad as a janitor and his son would get a free education while freeing up a scholly. Makes no sense. This happens in basketball a lot more than football, and from what I know, they still count against the scholly numbers.

Don't believe everything you read on USC message boards LOL...

Yep, this is right, it's been confirmed. See post #804.

 

[woolybug25]

Someone should start a thread on scholarship conversations and questions, because the topic is very interesting.

My first topic in that thread would revolve around the sleeping giant that is the Ivy League. Did you all know that they do not offer athletic scholarships at all? Think about how that would effect the landscape of college football if they decided to start. How could any kid justify going to Bama over Harvard? Seriously... ND and Stanford would get brutalized in recruiting probably the worst, since our recruits would be more likely to actually qualify (assuming that they would still maintain high academic requirements).

Off topic, I know, but just a thought.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

I know you will love this Lax, but Schrader at the USC site actually said today that Lane doesn't even mention other schools when recruiting kids and that he only promotes SC and doesn't negatively recruit. He mentioned this because apparently Tosh has been going HAM on SC to all their commits they are trying to flip.

 

[ThePiombino]

I know you will love this Lax, but Schrader at the USC site actually said today that Lane doesn't even mention other schools when recruiting kids and that he only promotes SC and doesn't negatively recruit. He mentioned this because apparently Tosh has been going HAM on SC to all their commits they are trying to flip.

LMAO suuuuure he doesn't.

 

[Emcee77]

I know you will love this Lax, but Schrader at the USC site actually said today that Lane doesn't even mention other schools when recruiting kids and that he only promotes SC and doesn't negatively recruit. He mentioned this because apparently Tosh has been going HAM on SC to all their commits they are trying to flip.

I love that you have access to this. What have people heard about the UCLA 247 site? Anything? I'm thinking of trying to sign up for a free trial there for the next week, since we are competing with UCLA for Fitts, EV and Hollins, but I won't bother if it sucks.

 

[IrishLax]

I know you will love this Lax, but Schrader at the USC site actually said today that Lane doesn't even mention other schools when recruiting kids and that he only promotes SC and doesn't negatively recruit. He mentioned this because apparently Tosh has been going HAM on SC to all their commits they are trying to flip.

hahahaha for his sake I hope Schrader is being intentionally dishonest. I've always considered him one of the worst (if not the worst) reporter in the entire 247 network because of how late he is with news (seriously, he never breaks anything) and how often he just gets things flat out wrong.

Lane Kiffin was party to telling Alshon Jeffery that if he went to South Carolina he would end up pumping gas... but sure, he doesn't negatively recruit. Not one bit. *eye roll*

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

hahahaha for his sake I hope Schrader is being intentionally dishonest. I've always considered him one of the worst (if not the worst) reporter in the entire 247 network because of how late he is with news (seriously, he never breaks anything) and how often he just gets things flat out wrong.

Lane Kiffin was party to telling Alshon Jeffery that if he went to South Carolina he would end up pumping gas... but sure, he doesn't negatively recruit. Not one bit. *eye roll*

He was being dead serious. He went on to say Pete never did either and that Tosh is being a bad boy for spreading rumors about SC. I guess it is hurting his wittle feelings. I agree though, he is one of the worst. All he does on that board is shoot the **** with the members and acts more like a fan than a reporter.

On a side note, I did read a lot about Tosh from the guy that started one of the Cal boards and has since sold it. He basically did confirm that Tosh is a scumbag that is only out to help himself. Threw Tedford under the bus and got the former Cal DL coach fired so he could get promoted.

 

[IrishLax]

The free tuition isn't a new thing.

A lot of universitities provide it.

My friend is a nurse at University of Toledo Medical Center. She likes it but she'd rather be closer to home but she sticks with it because since she is an UT employee her kids can go to UT for free.

USC rumors of hiring Vernon's dad would make him an employee of the university and therefore his kids can go there for free if that is their policy.

Sleezy but to me I guess it's legal.

EDIT: NOLA answered this definitively so editing the parts out speculating on why it doesn't work but leaving the tidbit on how it's used for other sports... in case anyone finds it interesting. And because it took me way too long to type.

There ARE exceptions to this though (I think... but I could be wrong here). My experience with this is primarily with Syracuse's rule of giving all Native Americans scholarships under the Haudenosaunee Promise rule. It's either a state law or a Syracuse University thing... I'm not exactly sure... but all Native Americans get a full ride automatically. You can only give out 12.6 scholarships for DI lacrosse (even though you typically have about 50 kids on your roster)... what does this mean? About 75% of your roster doesn't have a scholarship (in actuality, they usually piece apart partial scholarships to most players but a very large percentage get nothing).

So then, to my knowledge, Syracuse ends up typically circumventing this rule. Because of their proximity to Canada, longstanding relationship with Native American tribes, etc. almost all good Native American players end up at Syracuse. They all get a full ride and still play lacrosse. So some years you might have Syracuse using 15 or so scholarships (the equivalent of using 105 scholarships for football) while everyone else uses the ridiculously low NCAA number. As an aside, this insanely low scholarship number is why Ivy League schools are still competitive in lacrosse while they are no longer competitive in basically any other sport.

Why/how are they able to use it? For basically the same reason that "need based" scholarships are allowed. It's very common for athletes at places like Notre Dame on the 'lesser' sports to be on "need based" scholarship over athletic because they can get more money that way. In this case, the Native American rule for Syracuse counts as a standard "need based" scholarship.

 

[IrishLax]

Someone should start a thread on scholarship conversations and questions, because the topic is very interesting.

My first topic in that thread would revolve around the sleeping giant that is the Ivy League. Did you all know that they do not offer athletic scholarships at all? Think about how that would effect the landscape of college football if they decided to start. How could any kid justify going to Bama over Harvard? Seriously... ND and Stanford would get brutalized in recruiting probably the worst, since our recruits would be more likely to actually qualify (assuming that they would still maintain high academic requirements).

Off topic, I know, but just a thought.

This is such an interesting discussion point wooly. I hope you start that thread. I don't see the Ivy ever becoming a player in CFB though for a couple of reasons:

1. The simple fact is Stanford is equal to or better than just about every single Ivy League school, so at best they could *eventually* get up to the level of Stanford. The only Ivy schools you can even make a case for being better than Stanford are Princeton, Yale, and Harvard. So I don't really think the upside is there to the degree your describing.

2. Even if the upside IS there... simply put, Ivy League schools definitely won't drop their admissions even to the point of ND... maybe not even to Stanford's level... and there simply aren't enough talented kids with even the GPA/scores/resume to qualify for Ivies. For sports where everything is equal because there aren't a lot of scholarships at regular DI (like lacrosse) the Ivies still struggle to compete with other schools with great academics... like Johns Hopkins, Notre Dame, UVA, etc... because those schools will take kids that Ivies simply won't.

3. Let's say the upside is there AND Ivies do lower their standards inexplicably to ND's level... would they actually be able to compete? They have no fan base. They're all based in the worst part of the country for talent (the northeast). They wouldn't be able to get TV money to get the facilities, funds for recruiting, etc. needed to really challenge powerhouses. And most importantly... we see time and time again how little most kids actually care about academic prestige. Think of how much of a perennial loser Stanford was (in California!) for years upon years until Harbaugh showed up and worked his magic.

 

[IrishLax]

From the NCAA bylaws:



Even if you stash him for a little while, he becomes a counter the second he sets foot on the field.

GAH! Nice post. I missed this. This explains why they're able to use workaround for sports like lacrosse but not for football/basketball. Thanks. Would have saved me a speculative post if I read it first.