UFOs, Paranormal, Pseudoscience Thread

[GATTACA!]

My friends are trying to hunt this complexity down. If I get anything which clears any of this mystery up, I'll try to post it --- but these real investigations/uncoverings take time. Here's what I think happened up until now --- not all of this is hard fact, so some might change:

1). Las Vegas real estate magnate and space entrepreneur, Robert Bigelow, has always been fascinated with UFOs since having an encounter himself about three decades ago;
2). He's an expert at money utilization to get results he wants. He therefore enlisted the aid of Nevada's then-powerful congressman (Reid --- Dem or Rep make no difference here, as this is the old political game of campaign funding for access) to push his idea of a government information-gathering office in the Pentagon;
3). Reid floats this out there and finds two other senators (one Rep; one Dem ) who have also had encounters while in the military and are interested. The three of them write the project into a defense spending bill at (for the Pentagon) low budget;
4). An information-gathering office is established under the charge of CIA agent Lee Elizondo. Whether this is only in the Pentagon, only at Las Vegas in Bigelow-controlled buildings (as a private contractor), or both (likely), we do not know at the moment;
5). Elizondo begins collecting military information (and possibly some civilian.) Some of this involves the two film cases being mostly discussed. Some of this is further back in time encounters (i.e. not all hot-off-the-presses "new" cases.) Allegedly some of this involves testing of metallic debris (my Roswell experts do not think that this involves alleged Roswell material.) Some of this allegedly involved psychological testing of close encounters witnesses to see if they have been permanently affected. Whether either of these last two categories are true, or even interesting, is debatable until we have more information released;
6). With the changing of many leadership people due to the Trump takeover, the new boss assigned to oversea projects such as this decided to cut its budget. Elizondo complained to no avail and then quit. He then leaked the story. A couple of the pilot cases were already out there known to UFO researcher insiders, though not their status as part of this project;
7). Elizondo has joined a private citizen group continuing to attempt to research these things. Whether they're any good at it remains to be seen --- they have no "product" yet (I know a couple of the guys in that group.) Rather than wait for this group to really do anything, the serious UFO researchers realize that the first data-rich opportunity is getting the CIA project final report released. This thing is stated to be nearly 500pp long and should give us at least SOME new information.

That is the status quo as I know it this moment.

Is it the same group Tom DeLonge is part of? He did an interview with Joe Rogan and came off like a complete lunatic.

Here it is if anyone is interested. You can smell the bullshit through your computer screen. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5n_3mnJfHzY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Sea Turtle]

I find this stuff really interesting. Although I don't believe in much of the paranormal, I am a little open minded to UFO phenomena. I have known 3 people in my life who have claimed to have seen them. One was an Air Force pilot, one a teacher and the third was a blue collar worker. All 3 stories we're unique in their own rite and they were serious people who were sincere.

I think most sightings can be attributed to modern day aircraft of all sorts. But what I wonder about are the sightings pre flight. The reports of Alexander the Great and his army encountering them. The countless sightings in Europe from the 11th century on. Some of them even being two warring crafts that were engraved upon the precursors of newspapers. Pretty interesting stuff.

 

[Irish YJ]

I find this stuff really interesting. Although I don't believe in much of the paranormal, I am a little open minded to UFO phenomena. I have known 3 people in my life who have claimed to have seen them. One was an Air Force pilot, one a teacher and the third was a blue collar worker. All 3 stories we're unique in their own rite and they were serious people who were sincere.

I think most sightings can be attributed to modern day aircraft of all sorts. But what I wonder about are the sightings pre flight. The reports of Alexander the Great and his army encountering them. The countless sightings in Europe from the 11th century on. Some of them even being two warring crafts that were engraved upon the precursors of newspapers. Pretty interesting stuff.

I'm not a UFO junkie by any means, but I've spent a few evenings chilling with a neighbor who has almost a weekly view party when the sky is clear. On more than one occasion he's shown me tiny dancing lights via his geek scope. He's got hours and hours of recordings. Unless there are man made spacecraft that can dance, accelerate, stop on a dime,,,,, we are not alone. The thought of it doesn't bother me. Petty meh. I think believing we are the most intelligent beings in the universe is pretty arrogant.

 

[Section20Row27]

I'm not a UFO junkie by any means, but I've spent a few evenings chilling with a neighbor who has almost a weekly view party when the sky is clear. On more than one occasion he's shown me tiny dancing lights via his geek scope. He's got hours and hours of recordings. Unless there are man made spacecraft that can dance, accelerate, stop on a dime,,,,, we are not alone. The thought of it doesn't bother me. Petty meh. I think believing we are the most intelligent beings in the universe is pretty arrogant.

One trip to Walmart confirms that we are not....

 

[koonja]

I don't believe one way or another, but I'm absolutely open to the thought that there may be life on other planets. My wife thinks it's crazy to think that, and it drives me nuts. After watching the Cosmos with NTD and realizing how small our galaxy is, how can you not be open to considering there are other life forms?

Anyway, with all of the reported sightings, I'm amazed UFO sightings aren't talked about in a more mainstream way. It's like they're buried in YouTube clips, neighbor stories (like above), and some credible eye witnesses as well.

But the "media" around is essentially netflix documentaries. There's no mainstream TV channel documenting this and asking the questions, no one talking about it on the radio, etc.

Like, this is arguably the most fascinating thing possible, and people just kind of don't get into it.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To answer a semi-question above: Tom Delonge is an intellectual lightweight who likes to give himself photo ops in the media. He just happens to have made a bunch of money, is fascinated with UFOs, and can't shut up. If he'd let some of the other people talk instead, his group would sound more intelligent.

Still, they only half know what they're talking about. Bob Bigelow funded a bunch of "pork" barrel activity to gain some previously secret military films, which are genuine. Delonge had nothing to do with it, nor did anyone else in his group except Elizondo. The expert (and brilliantly competent and respectable) engineer- researcher who is all over these films (and has zero to do with Delonge), is my close friend Robert Powell, who I and 20 other UFO researchers (who'd have nothing to do with Delonge) met with at the end of May here at my house in Kalamazoo (private meeting.)

No one really serious about UFO work seeks the media. The media are enemies-of-truth on any of these "forbidden" subjects. Almost every media event is "two steps back" for any chance of getting good information out there.

I know a great deal about the military films/encounters which have the multiple incidents and multiple objects both on radar and visual. Robert Powell and his research team know a great deal more. But you'll never hear the truth about it --- likely not anyway. Why? Boneheads, trolls, and jerks. No one wants to bother putting up with their responses.

But doesn't everyone have the right to know? Sure. Read UFOs and Government for a start. This stuff isn't popcorn and isn't streetcorner. As Aristotle said to Alexander the Great: "There is no Royal Road to Geometry." ... not to UFOlogy either.

 

[nlroma1o]

Is it the same group Tom DeLonge is part of? He did an interview with Joe Rogan and came off like a complete lunatic.

Here it is if anyone is interested. You can smell the bullshit through your computer screen. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5n_3mnJfHzY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Did you have a chance to watch the JRE episode with Dr. Robert Schoch? His theory that the Sphinx is much, much older than we are told, is one of the more believable I've heard.

OMM, are you familiar with Schoch and his work? If you are, any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[Old Man Mike]

nlroma: Schoch, at the time when I was studying his work (20 years ago now? I just looked and cannot find my file on this, so this will be off the top of my head.) was a reasonable fellow on these matters. He was not part of the archaeological establishment and therefore was met with much more opposition than he deserved (on the usual basis that an idea conflicted with "everything else we know" therefore a priori cannot be true.)

Schoch had come into this mystery from a completely unusual angle --- looking at the site "geologically" rather than archaeologically. To his eye, the base of the Sphinx monument showed a type of water weathering which required an extremely long time to make happen. This was the basis for his counter-establishment theory.

There is nothing a priori wrong with Schoch's idea. The response from the establishment was, as usual, inappropriate. But that doesn't mean that Schoch's idea is in the end correct. Why would I say this (being the anti-establishment hellraiser that I am)? It is because of another odd geological phenomenon.

Because of the laws of physics (aerodynamics) if you blow a grinding wind (a la desert sand storms) past rock outcroppings made of something less resistant than granite or similar igneous minerals (a la limestone), those persistent winds wind sculpt the "hill" into a form known as a yardang. This yardang is remarkably like a sphinx-in-waiting --- long trailing "lionlike" body with a prominent neck and head area up front.

The alternate hypothesis to Schoch, therefore, is not to laugh him off and doubt his data, but rather to imagine that the early Sphinx builders were Carvers rather than builders. If they found an old impressive yardang, and carved its top into a fine looking Sphinx, then the bottom could well be those extra thousand or so years old, but the top carving done much later.

Of course everyone hates each other so they won't discuss it.

 

[nlroma1o]

nlroma: Schoch, at the time when I was studying his work (20 years ago now? I just looked and cannot find my file on this, so this will be off the top of my head.) was a reasonable fellow on these matters. He was not part of the archaeological establishment and therefore was met with much more opposition than he deserved (on the usual basis that an idea conflicted with "everything else we know" therefore a priori cannot be true.)

Schoch had come into this mystery from a completely unusual angle --- looking at the site "geologically" rather than archaeologically. To his eye, the base of the Sphinx monument showed a type of water weathering which required an extremely long time to make happen. This was the basis for his counter-establishment theory.

There is nothing a priori wrong with Schoch's idea. The response from the establishment was, as usual, inappropriate. But that doesn't mean that Schoch's idea is in the end correct. Why would I say this (being the anti-establishment hellraiser that I am)? It is because of another odd geological phenomenon.

Because of the laws of physics (aerodynamics) if you blow a grinding wind (a la desert sand storms) past rock outcroppings made of something less resistant than granite or similar igneous minerals (a la limestone), those persistent winds wind sculpt the "hill" into a form known as a yardang. This yardang is remarkably like a sphinx-in-waiting --- long trailing "lionlike" body with a prominent neck and head area up front.

The alternate hypothesis to Schoch, therefore, is not to laugh him off and doubt his data, but rather to imagine that the early Sphinx builders were Carvers rather than builders. If they found an old impressive yardang, and carved its top into a fine looking Sphinx, then the bottom could well be those extra thousand or so years old, but the top carving done much later.

Of course everyone hates each other so they won't discuss it.

This is what is so annoying for someone like me who is just fascinated by these type of mysteries. I am not a scientific person at all. I'm an accountant by occupation, and have always loved history more than anything.

Science was always far too difficult for me to focus on and get through. I limped my way through Biology and Chemistry in high school. The only science I enjoyed was Physics, and that was all math based. In college I avoided biology and chemistry entirely, and only took Astronomy courses and basic psychology just to get my credits I needed. But none the less, this stuff interests the hell out of me.

Back on the subject of Dr. Schoch. I believe he argued that the Sphinx is not a wind created yardang, because he believed the nearby Sphinx temple was built using the same rock that was quarried from the Sphinx enclosure. I think he also explains that the erosion evidence is different from wind errosion, in his opinion. There's literature of him explaining this but it is far too technical for me to dechipher. I imagine its incredible difficult to definitively say its water, not wind errosion. I think the reason why this is so enticing is because, as you mentioned, Schoch is a geologist primarily, and not an archeologist at all.

This leads me to want to dig into what you think caused the Younger Dryas warming spell? Dr. Schoch recently in the Joe Rogan podcast said he believes a massive solar event could have caused it. Joe Rogan also had Randall Carlson on, and he tends to lean that the Younger Dryas warm spell was caused by an impact event in the Canadian Ice sheet. Randall is studying the evidence of massive water erosion in the Channeled Scablands of Washington state. And believes that may have been casued by a massive water melt from and impact, and he some how correlates with it happening when the younger dryas warming occurred.

And of course the Younger Dryas warming event then ties back to when Dr. Schoch believes the rain event at the Sphinx would have happened. I completely fell down the rabbit hole on this one. Lol.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Well, Bless that Rabbit Hole.

I'll give you a "great secret" (Hah!) about staying young and enjoying your life in this fabulous universe: keep pursuing the mysteries and the things "just beyond reach" of stodgy old reductionist science.

I was an old scientist for many years (though I think not too stodgy), and I appreciate what The Method and the Proper Attitude can do, but there are many times when you and I just need to breathe in this great Thing we're privileged to exist in, and try to sense its deeper dimensions.

Have some fun with your mind. Debunkers, chronic doubters, smirkers, and jerks generally have no real fun. They might even have strong intellects but they have tiny constricted minds (and spirits.) Look and feel intuitively for those mysteries, openly and seriously (there are a lot a crapslingers out there.) You and I both know that "weird stuff happens", paranormally, buried in the Past, spiritually. It's all over our lives.

Have fun with it.

 

[koonja]

Happy World UFO day to OMM. I often disagree with you on football things, but your stories and curiosity into this phenomena makes for awesome reading, and I really enjoy your stories!

 

[Irish YJ]

Iran general blames Israel for 'cloud theft,' then is rebuked by Islamic Republic scientist | Fox News

 

[IrishLion]

I was talking to someone the other day that believes we are slowly and inconspicuously being conditioned to accept the presence of the unexplainable, particularly as it pertains to space, UFO’s, and extraterrestrials.

He made a pretty compelling argument based on the way the government is slowly releasing information and footage that would have stayed sealed away for a much longer period of time in the past.

I forget the exact term he used, but we are basically being slowly groomed. He thinks it may be something as small as “we have found living organisms at a microscopic level on this planet,” or could be as large as “we finally and unquestionably know that we are not alone, and here’s the proof...”

The US government, and perhaps other players, may be aiming to prevent overreaction, panic, or potentially even mass hysteria, depending on what is revealed in the near future.

I don’t know if I totally buy the premise. I think it’s simply coincidental based on the timing of some of the “unexplained” or “new” things that have been revealed in the past couple of years (the official Navy and Air Force footage of the flying beans recently; the Martian soil findings; the “first ever” visiting entity from outside our galaxy in the form of that oddly-shaped rock; etc.)... but the thought that we are being slowly prepared for some type of big reveal IS interesting.

 

[Irish YJ]

 

[Old Man Mike]

Being prepared for a revelation of ET presence?

I doubt it. I've researched this thing for 40 years and wrote most of the book "UFOs and Government" which explains through their own released documents how the intelligence community reacted to and subsequently dealt with the problem of unidentifiable airspace violations (over and over again.) There was only one brief period at the Pentagon when the top USAF intelligence brass considered opening all the files to public scrutiny. The chief of Air Force intelligence, Major General Samford, admitted in front of the Washington DC press corps that it was undeniable "that very credible persons had witnessed relatively incredible things."

Because we the citizenry are not all that emotionally stable, the military found out (rapidly) that (as the movie says) we can't handle the truth. The public HAD already panicked in several places around the world, scrambling around in the dark shooting at one another, and worse had pestered the Air Force so much in July 1952 that the entire operation of several bases was thrown 45 minutes out of kilter in handling information input. The CIA noted the latter and said flat: put a stop to this belief. That was early 1953. Nothing to my eye has changed.

One could argue rather that things have gotten worse. Whether any such thing happens or not, thousands of Americans think that either they or someone they know has been "abducted." A greater disincentive for revealing UFOs as true ET craft I cannot imagine. ... and again it doesn't matter whether such things happen or not, only that lots of people think that they do, and are rather hysterical about the idea.

The recent revelations from the Elizondo CIA project are 1). real (my VERY good UFO buddy --- an elite engineer with plenty of additional support is all over these film cases and knows far more accurately than the media what went on there --- astounding "flying."), and 2). were "revealed" only because a very rich man with a UFO obsession bullied some congresspersons into setting up the small project in the first place. Once the intel community allowed Bob Bigelow in the door, there was no stopping some information ultimately coming out.

Those films are astonishing, but no more astonishing than a hundred or more UFO encounters that I could tick off the top of my head. We've known almost from the beginning of the summer 1947 wave that people (highly trained people of both military and scientific-engineering backgrounds) were witnessing "relatively incredible things." The Pentagon asked all services and R&D areas if we had anything like this in August of 1947, and got flat "no's" across the board. All subsequent aerotech advances across these next 70 years show that we STILL can't fly like these things do.

There's no incentive that I can reasonably invent for the military/intel community to release anything. I secretly think that they don't know much more than I and my forty best UFO research colleagues do anyway.

 

[IrishLion]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A mysterious cigar-shaped object spotted tumbling through our solar system last year may have been an alien spacecraft sent to investigate Earth, astronomers from Harvard University have suggested <a href="https://t.co/DcOrKjkijk">https://t.co/DcOrKjkijk</a> <a href="https://t.co/4TEFNi16eM">pic.twitter.com/4TEFNi16eM</a></p>— CNN (@CNN) <a href="https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1059768882091778049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A strange, cigar-shaped object visits our solar system, the FIRST EVER interstellar visitor, meaning its point of origin was from somewhere outside of our solar system... it has an odd movement pattern, changes speeds as it arrives, then accelerates and leaves our solar system, despite the fact that science says it probably shouldn't have, unless it was specifically designed to be a solar sail. Harvard professors theorizing it was a probe sent to check us out.

I'm telling you guys... controlled disclosure.

They know something or have learned something, and they are slowly preparing us for the big reveal.

Trump almost blew it when he opened his mouth about Space Force, probably. Some dude from a government agency that we've never heard of was in the background, just shaking his head sadly.

 

[Irish YJ]

If/When something finally goes public from the gov, or if something happens that makes things crystal clear (that the gov can not splain away), one of my biggest curiosities will be the impact to religions, and the response from heads of religion.

 

[IrishLion]

If/When something finally goes public from the gov, or if something happens that makes things crystal clear (that the gov can not splain away), one of my biggest curiosities will be the impact to religions, and the response from heads of religion.

"God created all things, including our new relatives from far away. Let us learn to communicate with them, and spread the Good Word."

 

[zelezo vlk]

Yeah the Catholic Church has been fine with the existence of aliens for forever. We wouldn't know whether to baptize them or not, but I've never understood the claim that existence of extra-terrestrial life would invalidate religions.

Anyways, y'all remember when ACamp was trying to convince us that he was being eliminated by the government for learning about a UFO coverup?

 

[Irish YJ]

"God created all things, including our new relatives from far away. Let us learn to communicate with them, and spread the Good Word."

And when our new neighbors tell us that they seeded our planet millions of years ago, pope be like

 

[Irish YJ]

Yeah the Catholic Church has been fine with the existence of aliens for forever. We wouldn't know whether to baptize them or not, but I've never understood the claim that existence of extra-terrestrial life would invalidate religions.

Anyways, y'all remember when ACamp was trying to convince us that he was being eliminated by the government for learning about a UFO coverup?

It certainly doesn't invalidate them automatically, but it would raise a lot of questions. There is no doubt that first contact would bring a lot of new revelation and call into question many things. What would be very interesting in itself, is how our new neighbors would view the concept of religion. Do they have similar concepts, or not at all.

 

[Rack Em]

"God created all things, including our new relatives from far away. Let us learn to communicate with them, and spread the Good Word."

 

[BobbyMac]

I made a joke that Swarbrick would set schedule Space Force in the 2050 Shamrock Series at Elon Musk Stadium in Trumpolis, Mars so let me get out in front of this:

Swarbrick set to announce the 2100 Shamrock Series game vs the Cigarians at Skywalker Stadium on Tatooine.

 

[IrishLion]

I made a joke that Swarbrick would set schedule Space Force in the 2050 Shamrock Series at Elon Musk Stadium in Trumpolis, Mars so let me get out in front of this:

Swarbrick set to announce the 2100 Shamrock Series game vs the Cigarians at Skywalker Stadium on Tatooine.

Secure seats on AnthonyTravel's Interstellar Travel Barge, which includes one free breakfast and a fly-by tour of the Moon, for $2.3B.

Departure scheduled for January 1, 2076.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Secure seats on AnthonyTravel's Interstellar Travel Barge, which includes one free breakfast and a fly-by tour of the Moon, for $2.3B.

Departure scheduled for January 1, 2076.

Wiz is already reserving his seats and excited to visit the Disneyland near Alpha Centauri

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Just stumbled upon this thread.

My childhood best friend's house was haunted and I have WAY too many paranormal stories to type out. A few brief cliff notes from my personal files:

1) Sitting in the family room watching TV with my friend (home alone). Light turns on in the dining room. We get up to look and a stack of folded laundry gets knocked off the table.

2) Sitting in the dining room, on the computer (in the house by myself checking email while friend was outside). I hear a loud bang upstairs. I look up, and the chandelier is moving. I get up to go back outside, and I can hear voices coming from the master bedroom just off the dining room.

3) Learned to sleep with a box fan on high next to my head because of this house. Often would hear the noise of the fan change as if someone was walking by it

4) Friend and his family are on vacation and I'm in charge of feeding the cat and fish. I go in through the garage and down into the basement where the fish tank is. I hear loud bass from a stereo coming from the top floor (kids' bedrooms). I come up to the main floor, peak down the hallway towards the stairs, get a terrible feeling and immediately decide to leave the house instead. I reach for the back door knob (glass window panes) and there is banging on the door, rattling the glass. NO ONE IS THERE.

5) A bunch of us kids got a Ouija Board, went upstairs, lit some candles, and started playing. We asked "it" to prove itself. "It" obliged by suggesting to "burn out" a "candle" by the "light switch" at "12." At 11:59 pm the candle nearest the light switch began to flicker. At midnight, it burned out. At 12:01, it re-lit. I have never been so scared in my life. *While I don't believe the two friends who were operating the planchette when they said they weren't moving it, I did personally see it spin out from their finger tips.

Unrelated to my friend's house:

Shortly after my grandpa died, I was outside raking leaves on a very calm fall day. Out of nowhere, a gust of wind blew the pile throwing leaves everywhere. I heard my (very distinct) grandpa's laughter so vividly, that I turned around expecting to see him. There was no one there.

 

[ACamp1900]

I have WAY too many paranormal stories to type out.

Same. I'll just leave it at that...

 

[IrishLion]

Just stumbled upon this thread.

My childhood best friend's house was haunted and I have WAY too many paranormal stories to type out. A few brief cliff notes from my personal files:

1) Sitting in the family room watching TV with my friend (home alone). Light turns on in the dining room. We get up to look and a stack of folded laundry gets knocked off the table.

2) Sitting in the dining room, on the computer (in the house by myself checking email while friend was outside). I hear a loud bang upstairs. I look up, and the chandelier is moving. I get up to go back outside, and I can hear voices coming from the master bedroom just off the dining room.

3) Learned to sleep with a box fan on high next to my head because of this house. Often would hear the noise of the fan change as if someone was walking by it

4) Friend and his family are on vacation and I'm in charge of feeding the cat and fish. I go in through the garage and down into the basement where the fish tank is. I hear loud bass from a stereo coming from the top floor (kids' bedrooms). I come up to the main floor, peak down the hallway towards the stairs, get a terrible feeling and immediately decide to leave the house instead. I reach for the back door knob (glass window panes) and there is banging on the door, rattling the glass. NO ONE IS THERE.

5) A bunch of us kids got a Ouija Board, went upstairs, lit some candles, and started playing. We asked "it" to prove itself. "It" obliged by suggesting to "burn out" a "candle" by the "light switch" at "12." At 11:59 pm the candle nearest the light switch began to flicker. At midnight, it burned out. At 12:01, it re-lit. I have never been so scared in my life. *While I don't believe the two friends who were operating the planchette when they said they weren't moving it, I did personally see it spin out from their finger tips.

Unrelated to my friend's house:

Shortly after my grandpa died, I was outside raking leaves on a very calm fall day. Out of nowhere, a gust of wind blew the pile throwing leaves everywhere. I heard my (very distinct) grandpa's laughter so vividly, that I turned around expecting to see him. There was no one there.

This shit is my jam right here.

I could listen/read people talking about even just *small* occurrence stuff all day long.

 

[Luckylucci]

Grew up in a house that my entire family and close friends believe was truly haunted. Needless to say, it was a trip. I'll have to share a few of those stories when I have more time.

 

[calvegas04]

This shit is my jam right here.

I could listen/read people talking about even just *small* occurrence stuff all day long.

same here, love hearing how creative these stories can be