Time for new partner: Big 10 or SEC?
- Thread starter PolishDomer
- Start date
dankgesang
Troll Tide
- Messages
- 448
- Reaction score
- 681
About to PR my "ignore thread" time
- Messages
- 37,544
- Reaction score
- 28,990
The big thing that needs to happen is a moonshot piece of legislation to redo how media rights / the playoff are handled. Odds are really low but there are some pieces floating around right now with provisions that would fix a lot.
ESPN has invested billions in the SEC. ESPN controls who is in the playoffs. If the SEC brand falters, then ESPN loses a ton of money. Also, the SEC gets paid millions for each team in the playoff.
This kind of conflict of interest is just completely beyond the pale.
NDWarrior
Well-known member
- Messages
- 3,002
- Reaction score
- 2,421
They are and that seems to be another issue post the great CFB shake up of the early 2020s... Now, there's a chance - like this year - that teams like IU, Ole Miss, TAMU, and really OSU, are kind of top heavy while at the same time not enough of the top teams playing each other which results in A LOT of 0, 1 and 2 loss teams from these already preferenced P4 conferences in play for a crowded field of 12, or even 16.
And w/ SEC now being forced to schedule at least one OOC and a need for some challenging inter-conference comparison games, I would think SEC and Big10 (and Big12) teams would want to get ND into more of a tie up rotation to nicely round out their schedules and give the CFP committee more comparison games/data points.
stlnd01
Was away. Now returned.
- Messages
- 13,386
- Reaction score
- 10,247
I've never been much for the big SEC media bias conspiracy theories but watching the games and commentary the last week or two has been pretty gross.
The Texas hype when they beat A&M. The complete avoiding any discussion of how mediocre Oklahoma was, while endlessly pitting Notre Dame and Miami against one another. And then when Bama was getting just skullfucked last night, Kirk Herbstreit, of all people, was going on and on about how Bama shouldn't be "penalized" for losing a "bonus game" (funny but I'm old enough to remember when the SEC title game was basically the national championship for some people).
All of it tilts in favor of one conference.
NDpendent
Well-known member
- Messages
- 2,011
- Reaction score
- 6,337
Fuck the SEC and Fuck everything ESPN. I'm done with the bullshit. Not watching any bowl games, not watching the playoffs, not ever logging into ESPN again, never turning on ESPN again (outside of ND games) fuck it all. This is a bullshit money grab, this is the best ND team in the last 30 years and they deserve to be in the playoffs
ab2cmiller
Troublemaker in training
- Messages
- 11,452
- Reaction score
- 8,531
Big East is a nonstarter.
Yes it would be fine for Olympic sports. But football would be operating as an Independent. We simply can’t put together a quality schedule as an Independent anymore.
Even if we keep the USC rivalry going, almost all P4 teams would not want to schedule us to play games during the middle of conference play.
We basically need a conference tie-in. Jack knew this and negotiated the ACC deal to save our football “independence”
ACamp1900
Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
- Messages
- 48,944
- Reaction score
- 11,224
This. Triple down tho,… cancel all these big opening games and make it clear. ‘The powers that be chose between keeping conference title games with no repercussions or teams like us playing these games,… they made their choice’. And replace all the Texas and bama and auburn games with directional schools
While I agree that ND needs to join a conference, you are also correct in how large these conferences have gotten to big. You have supposed 'conference championship" games between teams that may have not even played a remotely similar conference schedule. Regionalism has always been the heart of college football, now we have Stanford and Cal in the Atlantic Coast Conference. That's what greed gets you, the greed of two conferences in particular are killing the goose that laid the golden egg.
Because the Big 10 doesn't need Notre Dame. They are rolling in money as it is, there's no incentive for them to make any concessions to anyone.
I'm not sure that's the smartest way to approach this. The game has changed, SEC-Big 10 have billion dollar TV deals, NIL and transfer portal allow for teams (Indiana) to go from histoically worst team in D-1 to #1 ranking in 2-3 years. Nobody "needs" Notre Dame anymore. Playoff ratings and profits will be huge, bowl games will go on with or without Notre Dame.
GoldenToTheGrave
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,907
- Reaction score
- 772
The SEC isn't also rolling in money?
They are and would also not have any incentive to make concessions to anyone.
HouseofPain
Well-known member
- Messages
- 631
- Reaction score
- 561
So you have the SEC which is a joke academically except for Vandy
And you have the B10 which ND has a bad history with and clearly doesnt respect ND.
Not a good option there
And you have the B10 which ND has a bad history with and clearly doesnt respect ND.
Not a good option there
Some Irish Bloke
Five foot nothin', a hundred and nothin'
- Messages
- 6,346
- Reaction score
- 5,922
that would be the end of ND football as we know it.
BilboBaggins
Well-known member
- Messages
- 879
- Reaction score
- 1,320
No one is alive who remembers Fielding Yost being a twat to Notre Dame.
Old Man Mike
Fast as Lightning!
- Messages
- 8,959
- Reaction score
- 6,450
My opinion on an un-win-able topic:
1. We used to be fanatically coveted by all conferences. The money has overwhelmed this, I believe, nearly completely.
2. Two conferences dominate, and, if ANY conferences continue to exist it will be them.
3. The Big 12 seems to have a slightly better chance than the ACC but maybe not (it's close... does the ACC retain MIA and CLEM and FSU?)
4. Conferences bigger than 16 members are too unwieldy to produce any real sense that the members even get enough games to learn which teams are best. The B1G and the SEC are already there, or beyond. Unless they CUT some teams, what's the "growth" incentive?
5. Notre Dame can play non-football sports in any of the four conferences, but ACC and B1G are better fits for that. SEC membership in anything just makes my skin crawl.
6. If ACC must be left behind, and SEC is unswallowable, then B1G or Big 12 are all that's left vis a vis football, or "independence."
7. If it must be independence, and if ACC is out, then where do the games come from when the B1G and the SEC are bloated? Even the Big 12 has 16 teams.
8. When I was in school ancient days ago, we played ten games. FOUR of those were Big 10 (Purdue; MSU; Iowa; NW --- reasons obvious --- close drives away.) There were two non-negotiable: USC and Navy. The four other games would be usually old rivals like Pitt or Syracuse, or powerhouses like Oklahoma, or "independents" like GeorgiaTech or Army or SMU or Miami. (the early old Miami pre-Criminality.) The schedule was solid. Can anything like that be tinkered around the edges today?
9. I can imagine playing highly contracted games with B1Gs or SECs or whoever's during the first about four weeks. (Example: Purdue, MSU, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, plus big headliners) Before their conference schedule gets locked. Where do the rest of the twelve come from? Can you/we live out of a basket which includes Navy, Army, Air Force, Oregon State, Washington State, James Madison, Tulane, Boise, Troy, MAC, maybe an old "friend" or two like Cal/Stanford or BYU/WVU wanting a marquee event? But FOUR big conference games plus EIGHT scrapping-for-them-games seems a pressing future issue.
10. If that's not what we want, or even possible, then ...? Swarbrick had a genius if temporary (it seems) solution with the ACC deal. If that's just gone, what? Are the B1Gs even interested anymore? Would the Big 12 kick someone out? Is independent money-non-sharing even an option anywhere? ....... I don't see the solution, and am anxious to see if ND has one more magic negotiation it can pull.
1. We used to be fanatically coveted by all conferences. The money has overwhelmed this, I believe, nearly completely.
2. Two conferences dominate, and, if ANY conferences continue to exist it will be them.
3. The Big 12 seems to have a slightly better chance than the ACC but maybe not (it's close... does the ACC retain MIA and CLEM and FSU?)
4. Conferences bigger than 16 members are too unwieldy to produce any real sense that the members even get enough games to learn which teams are best. The B1G and the SEC are already there, or beyond. Unless they CUT some teams, what's the "growth" incentive?
5. Notre Dame can play non-football sports in any of the four conferences, but ACC and B1G are better fits for that. SEC membership in anything just makes my skin crawl.
6. If ACC must be left behind, and SEC is unswallowable, then B1G or Big 12 are all that's left vis a vis football, or "independence."
7. If it must be independence, and if ACC is out, then where do the games come from when the B1G and the SEC are bloated? Even the Big 12 has 16 teams.
8. When I was in school ancient days ago, we played ten games. FOUR of those were Big 10 (Purdue; MSU; Iowa; NW --- reasons obvious --- close drives away.) There were two non-negotiable: USC and Navy. The four other games would be usually old rivals like Pitt or Syracuse, or powerhouses like Oklahoma, or "independents" like GeorgiaTech or Army or SMU or Miami. (the early old Miami pre-Criminality.) The schedule was solid. Can anything like that be tinkered around the edges today?
9. I can imagine playing highly contracted games with B1Gs or SECs or whoever's during the first about four weeks. (Example: Purdue, MSU, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, plus big headliners) Before their conference schedule gets locked. Where do the rest of the twelve come from? Can you/we live out of a basket which includes Navy, Army, Air Force, Oregon State, Washington State, James Madison, Tulane, Boise, Troy, MAC, maybe an old "friend" or two like Cal/Stanford or BYU/WVU wanting a marquee event? But FOUR big conference games plus EIGHT scrapping-for-them-games seems a pressing future issue.
10. If that's not what we want, or even possible, then ...? Swarbrick had a genius if temporary (it seems) solution with the ACC deal. If that's just gone, what? Are the B1Gs even interested anymore? Would the Big 12 kick someone out? Is independent money-non-sharing even an option anywhere? ....... I don't see the solution, and am anxious to see if ND has one more magic negotiation it can pull.
ndfanatic78
I have unconditional love for every one of you.
- Messages
- 1,555
- Reaction score
- 1,781
Antitrust law suit against ESPN, SEC, and BiG?
PolishDomer
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,470
- Reaction score
- 2,335
This is a tough topic...Im for independence, but reality is setting in that we need to align somewhere...
drayer54
Well-known member
- Messages
- 8,365
- Reaction score
- 5,792
Big Ten schedule and play looked like a snooze fest this year. Adding ND to more than Purdue would seemingly liven up their boring schedule for the top tier teams. Put Purdue, Indiana, Michigan, MSU, OSU, Illinois, Northwestern (all the close schools) on a rotation with us and lock in USC. I don't see how it doesn't help the BIG to have some games with a pulse on the schedule.
I also want to see a home and away game each year with the SEC. This year was A&M and Arkansas. Good model.
Also- teams are feeling encouraged to schedule soft and ND isn't soft. USC is publicly waffling on playing ND. I think we will struggle more than we realize to schedule without the ACC deal.
I also want to see a home and away game each year with the SEC. This year was A&M and Arkansas. Good model.
MPClinton22
Well-known member
- Messages
- 907
- Reaction score
- 1,180
Others have said it - but the unfortunate reality is that the B1G is the better option to at least try to rein in the insane control ESPN has over the sport right now. I hate it and it makes me sick to even imagine, but ESPN and their cartel of SEC (and ACC but to a much lesser extent) teams are an existential threat to the sport with all the conflicts of interest with control over the playoff.
MacIrish75
The New Logo is a Jinx
- Messages
- 9,195
- Reaction score
- 17,740
Pac12
stlnd01
Was away. Now returned.
- Messages
- 13,386
- Reaction score
- 10,247
B1G is also a better fit geographically, academically/culturally, and if we value playing historic rivals. Which conference we would join is not the question, IMO.
Ophiocordyceps
Well-known member
- Messages
- 742
- Reaction score
- 883
Big10. When I was a kid I was in the corner of the end zone during the Snow Bowl. The index finger on my right hand froze during that game. When it gets cold sometimes it feels numb and discolored. I want to remember what it was like to play Penn State, Michigan, Iowa, Michigan State & Northwestern again.
PolishDomer
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,470
- Reaction score
- 2,335
Brush off the dust on the cardboard boxes and bring back the Big West lol
MacIrish75
The New Logo is a Jinx
- Messages
- 9,195
- Reaction score
- 17,740
Realistically a 15 year old can remember all of those except Iowa. That would NOT be a reason I’d favor joining the B1G.
The B1G makes more sense for non-football sports, is probably better for Olympic sports, and you keep SC. Fine. Whatever.
SEC would never truly accept us, culturally.
PolishDomer
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,470
- Reaction score
- 2,335
And Big 10 aligns more in the non-traditional sports like soccer, lacrosse and fencing to name a few than the SEC...
NorthDakota
Grandson of Loomis
- Messages
- 15,693
- Reaction score
- 5,992
Fencing and Lacrosse should not be considered while choosing a conference lol but I understand your larger point.
PolishDomer
Well-known member
- Messages
- 1,470
- Reaction score
- 2,335
Oh I know but I was just making an ancillary point that from a conference standpoint, that the BIG 10 aligns best for all sports, not just football and basketball...plus the Big 10 offices are close to me in Rosemont, IL and I can go spy on them when i go to the Brazilian steakhouse next door...