Time for new partner: Big 10 or SEC?

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

How about this

Oolitic Owls, Cedar Knob Knights, Terhune Tigers, Linton Wildcats, South Bend Central Bears, Verdi Hornets, Lyons, Holland, Dugger Bulldogs, Madison, Birdseye

Throw in Notre Dame and Hickory of course and make a super conference

Don’t be dumb.

We’d never fraternize with the known catholic haters at Oolitic.

 

[IrishBryan77]

Don’t be dumb.

We’d never fraternize with the known catholic haters at Oolitic.

Lmfao

 

[IrishBryan77]

Don’t be dumb.

We’d never fraternize with the known catholic haters at Oolitic.

That also could be a great new rivalry. lol lol

 

[Irish8248]

Again -- why would this partnership be any different when the problem is the "non biased" committee full of conference affiliated people advocating for their conference

12 teams should mean the 12 teams who are the best and can win a championship. Tulane, I'm sorry, you can win a game you're not winning 4, ever. JMU same. SMU, Clemson, Boise -- fun stories last year but you were never going to make a deep run.

Its never going to change for ND when the decision makers are conf affiliated people fighting for more money for their conf. Unfortunately the SEC with ESPN is the top dog. That's why all their teams are inflated every year. The BIG is up there. That's why they can get 3-4 teams in every year. Then you have the ACC Big 12 ND and other smaller confereces fighting for 3ish spots. It's a dumb model and no partnership, IMO, can change that

 

[thekid33]

we eventually become just another team and we lose our seat at the table. Right now our AD sits at the table with conference commissioners and we have outsized influence for just one program (but still not as much as the collective power and money of ESPN and the conferences they own). We lose our ability to do what is best for us and we give a piece of ourselves over to a group of jackals.

They are already taking away our ability to do what is best for ourselves.

The only way that we still have a "national" schedule is because we made the ACC deal.

It worked for awhile, but the landscape has changed too much since we made the deal, and not in our favor.

We fought the good fight.

Is there something special about being an independent? Yes

But there's more to ND being special than being an independent. Much more.

 

[thekid33]

Again -- why would this partnership be any different when the problem is the "non biased" committee full of conference affiliated people advocating for their conference

12 teams should mean the 12 teams who are the best and can win a championship. Tulane, I'm sorry, you can win a game you're not winning 4, ever. JMU same. SMU, Clemson, Boise -- fun stories last year but you were never going to make a deep run.

Its never going to change for ND when the decision makers are conf affiliated people fighting for more money for their conf. Unfortunately the SEC with ESPN is the top dog. That's why all their teams are inflated every year. The BIG is up there. That's why they can get 3-4 teams in every year. Then you have the ACC Big 12 ND and other smaller confereces fighting for 3ish spots. It's a dumb model and no partnership, IMO, can change that

If we were on the B1G this year we would have no worse of a record and would have made the playoff.

 

[Irish8248]

Hopefully this is indeed a unique situation (lack of upsets, several 10-2 teams, losing head-to-head to another bubble team) but we can’t stay independent if it consistently hurts our chances to win a national championship. We can’t just stay independent because it makes us feel special

We're independent b cause our brand is too big to be in a conf. It's not equitable. That's why we have all the prime time games, highest viewership, sold out games for lower opponents... It's a brand bigger than most. We don't need 7+ schools to prop us up. If we joined a conf, what's our benefit other than having a commissioner advocate on our behalf?

ND knows where the bodies are buried. They just have to remind people why they are the big dog. The ACC CG had 40k fans and I'm pretty confident significantly less than that actually showed up. Good business model Jim, good luck sustaining that. I bet the TV ratings saved them though because most ND fans tuned in

 

[IrishinSyria]

Understand these comments about independence from everyone, but Notre Dame will never "lose its identity" about anything of real importance. AND, if we fear any opponents, we are not Notre Dame -- and we will NOT fear anything in this anyway. Notre Dame will attempt, without fear, to beat the crap out of anyone on the field of play, and if we are not of that mind, will not win a championship. I trust the integrity of my school in the midst of lack of integrity in all others.

100% this.

In my time as a poster on this board, it’s been argued by the admin or other posters or both that ND would lose its identity if:

It replaced the grass with turf
Built a jumbotron
Instituted a training table
Accepted transfers
Hired a young d coordinator as head coach

I’m sure I’m missing a few things, but those immediately come to mind. I was even sympathetic to a few of those positions, but in retrospect they changed and the tradition is alive and well.

In the era of five conferences and short or non existent playoffs, being independent made sense. But the more the super conferences consolidate power and build a system meant to suit them, the more precarious our ledge seems. We’re voluntarily taking on massive scheduling uncertainty, giving up an apparently risk free avenue to the playoffs in a CCG, and feeding the narrative that we think we’re better than everyone else (we are but whatever) all for ??? I guess if this MOU is real and it has teeth the situation may be tenable moving forward in the medium term but the landscape is going to continue changing in a direction that makes it harder for us to stand alone.

 

[stlnd01]

If we were on the B1G this year we would have no worse of a record and would have made the playoff.

I'm not sure we would have. If we're 10-2 with an OOC loss to Miami and a close early loss to Oregon instead of A&M, followed by wins over Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State, Maryland and Rutgers instead of Pitt, NC State, BC, Syracuse and Stanford, (let's assume USC and Purdue are same either way), what exactly is different?

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'm not sure we would have. If we're 10-2 with an OOC loss to Miami and a close early loss to Oregon instead of A&M, followed by wins over Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State, Maryland and Rutgers instead of Pitt, NC State, BC, Syracuse and Stanford, (let's assume USC and Purdue are same either way), what exactly is different?

What’s different is that we have the full weight of the big swinging dick of the B1G advocating for us in that committee room.

 

[stlnd01]

Why do we want to play NCST, Duke, and Virginia all the time?

Why would we want to play Rutgers, Illinois, and Maryland all the time?

Because we also get USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State. The Big 12 offers no games like that, and the ACC powers are too inconsistent.

 

[stlnd01]

What’s different is that we have the full weight of the big swinging dick of the B1G advocating for us in that committee room.

I'm not opposed to us joining the Big Ten. I just don't think we were left out this time because we were independent. We were left out because we were in a three way fight with two other teams, one of which beat us head-to-head and the other of which was Alabama.

 

[DillonHall]

We're independent b cause our brand is too big to be in a conf. It's not equitable. That's why we have all the prime time games, highest viewership, sold out games for lower opponents... It's a brand bigger than most. We don't need 7+ schools to prop us up. If we joined a conf, what's our benefit other than having a commissioner advocate on our behalf?

ND knows where the bodies are buried. They just have to remind people why they are the big dog. The ACC CG had 40k fans and I'm pretty confident significantly less than that actually showed up. Good business model Jim, good luck sustaining that. I bet the TV ratings saved them though because most ND fans tuned in

This reeks of the arrogance and self righteousness that others hate about ND. I love my alma mater, but there are plenty of other programs with a similar following. Maybe what sets us apart is the number of people who hate us

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Create our own conference?

 

[IrishinSyria]

Because we also get USC, Michigan, Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State. The Big 12 offers no games like that, and the ACC powers are too inconsistent.

Yeah, big 12 is an inferior conference that might be a cake walk in the near term but would over time dilute the brand as we stopped playing interesting games.

B1G would give us national reach, keep or even revitalize some of our key rivalries, and would be way better for us in the long run.

Would also ensure we could stomp out little brother in our state before things get out of hand…

 

[DillonHall]

I'm not sure we would have. If we're 10-2 with an OOC loss to Miami and a close early loss to Oregon instead of A&M, followed by wins over Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan State, Maryland and Rutgers instead of Pitt, NC State, BC, Syracuse and Stanford, (let's assume USC and Purdue are same either way), what exactly is different?

That's a good point. But for the first time ever, it felt like we were a little fish fighting against some really big fish

 

[IrishLax]

Big 12 is fine to get 4 games in the middle of the season if that's all you need. Play Colorado, Kansas State, Utah, BYU, etc. those are all as good or better than the crap we see yearly in the ACC.

If you are able to maintain Stanford/USC + 3x Big Ten/SEC in September + 4x Big 12 you're at 9 P4 games + Navy as your baseline. That's fine. Maintaining USC does become very important though.

 

[mrmcgrail]

Big 12 is a better conference then the acc. Texas tech is going to be a player as long as they have that booster. Utah byu the Arizona and Arizona states of the world tend to be ranked. I would think Kansas st makes a comeback under klein. Houston is a good program. Cincinnati is a good program. These are all better than playing Syracuse or the equivalent of pitt.

 

[mrmcgrail]

Big 12 is fine to get 4 games in the middle of the season if that's all you need. Play Colorado, Kansas State, Utah, BYU, etc. those are all as good or better than the crap we see yearly in the ACC.

If you are able to maintain Stanford/USC + 3x Big Ten/SEC in September + 4x Big 12 you're at 9 P4 games + Navy as your baseline. That's fine. Maintaining USC does become very important though.

Schedule a tulane or Memphis level aac team and you are set

 

[GATTACA!]

Create our own conference?

With blackjack and hookers.

 

[Wild Bill]

100% this.

In my time as a poster on this board, it’s been argued by the admin or other posters or both that ND would lose its identity if:

It replaced the grass with turf
Built a jumbotron
Instituted a training table
Accepted transfers
Hired a young d coordinator as head coach

I’m sure I’m missing a few things, but those immediately come to mind. I was even sympathetic to a few of those positions, but in retrospect they changed and the tradition is alive and well.

In the era of five conferences and short or non existent playoffs, being independent made sense. But the more the super conferences consolidate power and build a system meant to suit them, the more precarious our ledge seems. We’re voluntarily taking on massive scheduling uncertainty, giving up an apparently risk free avenue to the playoffs in a CCG, and feeding the narrative that we think we’re better than everyone else (we are but whatever) all for ??? I guess if this MOU is real and it has teeth the situation may be tenable moving forward in the medium term but the landscape is going to continue changing in a direction that makes it harder for us to stand alone.

Joining a conference is far different than field turf. I don't really know what losing their identity means but joining the BIG certainly puts ND at risk of becoming less relevant. Just ask Nebraska.

 

[thekid33]

Joining a conference is far different than field turf. I don't really know what losing their identity means but joining the BIG certainly puts ND at risk of becoming less relevant. Just ask Nebraska.

Nebraska was in a conference. The reason they suck has more to do with bad coaching choices repeatedly and joining the wrong conference when they should have stayed in their traditional one.

 

[ACamp1900]

How about this

Oolitic Owls, Cedar Knob Knights, Terhune Tigers, Linton Wildcats, South Bend Central Bears, Verdi Hornets, Lyons, Holland, Dugger Bulldogs, Madison, Birdseye

Throw in Notre Dame and Hickory of course and make a super conference

It moved

 

[DillonHall]

Big 12 is a better conference then the acc. Texas tech is going to be a player as long as they have that booster. Utah byu the Arizona and Arizona states of the world tend to be ranked. I would think Kansas st makes a comeback under klein. Houston is a good program. Cincinnati is a good program. These are all better than playing Syracuse or the equivalent of pitt.

It feels like we the said the same positive stuff about the ACC move at the time. It seems like wishful thinking. The SEC and B1G are the best and that isn't changing anytime soon

 

[Irish8248]

This reeks of the arrogance and self righteousness that others hate about ND. I love my alma mater, but there are plenty of other programs with a similar following. Maybe what sets us apart is the number of people who hate us

It's not arrogance though. It's 100 years of branding. Can OSU Bama and a few others say the same thing about their ability to thrive in a similar situation? For sure, we've just done it. No one is saying ND is the only one who could do it.

The hatred in this generation comes from years of ND being mediocre and receiving the benefit of the doubt when it comes to bowl games and playoffs for that matter. When you get that benefit and waste it like we did, animosity is going to grow. Resentment among conferences will grow. The SEC powers like Bama UGA and BIG powers like OSU and UM, prob don't give a shit if ND is in a conf because the conf system is working for them.

End of day the ACC made a choice to go all in for one football team at the expense of an ancillary member. It's because a UM appearance makes money for all its members. The short sightedness comes when you ignore any benefit the ND relationship brings in every other aspect. I don't know the depths of that relationship but I imagine the ACC has made out pretty well.

 

[IrishLax]

It feels like we the said the same positive stuff about the ACC move at the time. It seems like wishful thinking. The SEC and B1G are the best and that isn't changing anytime soon

To be fair, the ACC has gone to shit faster than anyone could've guessed.

Virginia Tech used to be consistently good. Clemson was THE HOTNESS 5-7 years ago. Florida State had a run from 1987 to 2000 of never finishing outside of the top 5 AND they won a championship recently AND they finished top 5 a mere two years ago. Miami is Miami. The ACC scheduling agreement was supposed to guarantee 1-2 marquee ranked games a year.

Turns out though that in the NIL era most of these schools (except Miami) are kinda broke and they are just wholly uncompetitive now with "serious" football schools. It is wild.

 

[stlnd01]

Big 12 is a better conference then the acc. Texas tech is going to be a player as long as they have that booster. Utah byu the Arizona and Arizona states of the world tend to be ranked. I would think Kansas st makes a comeback under klein. Houston is a good program. Cincinnati is a good program. These are all better than playing Syracuse or the equivalent of pitt.

Big 12 is marginally better on the field right now, sure. But not a single program in it is any sort of historical power, nor anything that will excite our fans.

They are the leftovers of the Texas/Oklahoma/Nebraska-era Big 12, the dregs of the old Pac-12, and a few C-USA upstarts like Houston and Cincy. Am I right that BYU and Colorado are the only current Big 12 teams ever to have claimed a national title? And it has been a long time for both of them. Did any ever make the four-team CFP? (TCU that once?)

In the ACC, Clemson, Miami and Florida State, at least, still have echoes worth waking. And a bunch of other teams you can tell yourself a story like you do with Houston and Cincy and K State. Syracuse won 10 games last year. UNC went and hired the best coach in the history of football. Aaron Donald and Larry Fitzgerald went to Pitt!

But like Dillon said, in 2025, there are only two conferences worth being a member of, and neither of these are them.

 

[IrishBryan77]

It moved

lol

 

[Bane]

End of day the ACC made a choice to go all in for one football team at the expense of an ancillary member. It's because a UM appearance makes money for all its members. The short sightedness comes when you ignore any benefit the ND relationship brings in every other aspect. I don't know the depths of that relationship but I imagine the ACC has made out pretty well.

And the ACC burned through their goodwill with ND just so Miami can get worked over against A&M.

To be fair, the ACC has gone to shit faster than anyone could've guessed.

Virginia Tech used to be consistently good. Clemson was THE HOTNESS 5-7 years ago. Florida State had a run from 1987 to 2000 of never finishing outside of the top 5 AND they won a championship recently AND they finished top 5 a mere two years ago. Miami is Miami. The ACC scheduling agreement was supposed to guarantee 1-2 marquee ranked games a year.

Turns out though that in the NIL era most of these schools (except Miami) are kinda broke and they are just wholly uncompetitive now with "serious" football schools. It is wild.

Yeah for a period there the ACC was probably the second best conference in the country. And the thing is, they don't even have a consistently good team year in and year out. Some years, FSU might be good, some years Clemson could put it together. I'm not a believer in Cristobal and I don't think he will build a consistent winner in Miami. Part of their sheer desperation is honestly this could be the best team Cristobal ever fields at Miami.

After that, it's a bunch of mediocre basketball schools.

 

[HouseofPain]

The problem is is the preseason rankings. Specially, with ND Getting bent over on the playoffs, we will probably start next year preseason number 10. Which means one game and we’re out of it.

Until they do away with preseason rankings and the BS bias that benefits the SEC schools so much, ND We’ll never get a fair shake. I think it pissed off a lot of people the fact that indeed got the. Big bucks from last year’s title run and didn’t have to split it with anybody. I think they made it their point to keep ND out for this year.