The Optimal Notre Dame Scheduling Model

[stlnd01]

Like Rock said, the JUCO thing is not only about admissions - though that's certainly part of it; most who wind up going the JUCO route wouldn't qualify academically. It's also problematic b/c Notre Dame has fairly stringent course requirements for graduation.

You have to take classes (classes that Notre Dame accepts) in math, science, philosophy, theology, foreign language, etc, plus your major, in order to qualify for your degree. If you haven't started taking those required classes as a freshman and sophomore, it's pretty hard to catch up. You just don't have time. And they're not going to admit an incoming transfer who doesn't have a reasonable shot of graduating on time.

For this reason, Notre Dame is a hard place to transfer into, even for non-athletes. (I only knew a couple when I was a student there). For athletes, with the other demands on their time (and the typical academic profile of a JUCO football player), it's even harder. I suppose it's not impossible for a kid to take the right classes at the right junior college (Holy Cross, for instance, has a program designed to catapult kids into ND, I believe), and transfer in as a junior football player. But they'd pretty much have to be planning on it from the start of their freshman year. And that's a pretty rare person. It's a much easier road to JUCO into, say, Ole Miss or Okie State.

That's my understanding of it, anyway.

 

[BobbyMac]

This thread never ceases to amaze.

 

[IrishLax]

Can we talk for a second about how terribly set up next year's schedule is? The biggest issue is that most teams play at least 3 "softies" for free wins... ND plays 1. And they play them week 2.

ND likely plays 10 bowl teams. TEN!

Stanford and Virginia Tech back-to-back, followed by a Pitt "let down" game before the bye. Northwestern = trap game between Navy and FSU. Four total teams that recruit "tier 1" talent... Michigan, Stanford, FSU, USC. VT will certainly be ranked and is one of the most hostile environments in sports.

Notre Dame could have an "elite" team and go 9-3 against that schedule. For contrast, Bama plays Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, and The Citadel spread throughout their schedule for de facto bye weeks. ND needs to wake up and start scheduling more baked-in byes to have a chance of being competitive...

 

[NDohio]

IMO instead of trying to squeeze a round peg into a square hole by adding an annual matchup against Hawaii....it would make more sense just to join the ACC and try and win the ACC championship every 3rd year to get into the playoffs.

I normally don't agree with your posts, but I am all on board the joining the ACC full time.

You think Miami is that hype if we play them every year?

You don't think the extreme travel that ND has to endure doesn't effect the late season energy?

Giving ND a couple of bottom level conference games would help give them a break and ND can still schedule OOC rivalry games.

Win the ACC every third year and get in the playoffs

 

[IrishLax]

I normally don't agree with your posts, but I am all on board the joining the ACC full time.

You think Miami is that hype if we play them every year?

You don't think the extreme travel that ND has to endure doesn't effect the late season energy?

Giving ND a couple of bottom level conference games would help give them a break and ND can still schedule OOC rivalry games.

Win the ACC every third year and get in the playoffs

If we join the ACC I think it's likely that there's an ACC "North" (+ UCONN, I assume) that looks like --

ND
BC
UCONN
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
Virginia
Virginia Tech

ND would play those 7 every year with I assume 1 or 2 rotating crossover games depending on if the conference wants 8 or 9 games (I'm assuming they'll want 8). So we're still not going to see Miami every year for the same reason Clemson doesn't currently see Miami very often... different sides of the conference.

If an 8 game schedule, we drop Stanford for sure. We play USC away to end the year on "even" years and Navy away to end the year on "odd" years. Otherwise, play them around the bye week.

With two open games, it'd be best just to play two cream puffs but it's more likely that we will rotate through playing one "national" opponent in home-and-home series most years... a team like Georgia or Stanford or Michigan State... I'd prefer we just get someone like Purdue or MSU or Northwestern on the schedule most years in order to minimize travel.

With that kind of schedule, we'd be staring at a 10-2 floor most years playing one of FSU/Clemson/Miami in a conference championship game for a ring and a chance to go to the playoffs for another one. It's much more conducive to winning than our current shit show of schedule we're looking at for '18 and '19.

 

[ickythump1225]

I don't want to join a conference. Part of what makes ND special is their independence, national rivalries, and challenging scheduling. Joining the ACC diminishes what makes ND different.

 

[NDohio]

If we join the ACC I think it's likely that there's an ACC "North" (+ UCONN, I assume) that looks like --

ND
BC
UCONN
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
Virginia
Virginia Tech

ND would play those 7 every year with I assume 1 or 2 rotating crossover games depending on if the conference wants 8 or 9 games (I'm assuming they'll want 8). So we're still not going to see Miami every year for the same reason Clemson doesn't currently see Miami very often... different sides of the conference.

If an 8 game schedule, we drop Stanford for sure. We play USC away to end the year on "even" years and Navy away to end the year on "odd" years. Otherwise, play them around the bye week.

With two open games, it'd be best just to play two cream puffs but it's more likely that we will rotate through playing one "national" opponent in home-and-home series most years... a team like Georgia or Stanford or Michigan State... I'd prefer we just get someone like Purdue or MSU or Northwestern on the schedule most years in order to minimize travel.

With that kind of schedule, we'd be staring at a 10-2 floor most years playing one of FSU/Clemson/Miami in a conference championship game for a ring and a chance to go to the playoffs for another one. It's much more conducive to winning than our current shit show of schedule we're looking at for '18 and '19.

Sign me up...

 

[IrishLax]

I dunno. With that schedule we have no premiere wins to boost the resume. We’d basically have to go undefeated to make the playoff. Just like Wisconsin this year.

How do? We play USC every year still, and every their year one of FSU/Clemson/Miami every other year. We will also schedule another marquee opponent with one of our free games most years. So there are three "Tier 1 should be good" types on the schedule every year. Then there are VT and Louisville that are ranked most years.

That's a harder schedule than most teams play with a lot of "big" games but set up much more manageably than what we currently play.

 

[BobbyMac]

When Texas leaves the Big 12 for the B1G all hell is going to break loose. The question no one knows right now is if there will be 5 major conferences or just 4. If there are 4 Super-Conferences, ND is in the ACC, if the realignment still has 5 then ND could keep it's independence. The difference is, there is no G5 anymore. It's the 72-80 have's and the rest of the have not's that basically expands what we call FCS today.

 

[zelezo vlk]

When Texas leaves the Big 12 for the B1G all hell is going to break loose. The question no one knows right now is if there will be 5 major conferences or just 4. If there are 4 Super-Conferences, ND is in the ACC, if the realignment still has 5 then ND could keep it's independence. The difference is, there is no G5 anymore. It's the 72-80 have's and the rest of the have not's that basically expands what we call FCS today.

I know money talks, but would the B1G really want all of the problems that having UT would bring? Texas is used to having its way, and I'm not sure the Horns are willing to give that up. The most fun solution imo is to make the Big 12 strong and keep the vultures away.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[snoopdog]

Just curious? Can anyone on here articulate the rational to be 3/7's in the ACC?

I just don't get the wisdom to commit 5 games to a conference, but give up the best part of conference play which is the conf. Championship.

And a much easier ride into the NC most seasons.

This claiming to be half pregnant is very confusing to me.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

I'll say one thing, we may complain about ACC refs but the Big 10 refs SUCK a big hairy testicle. They are boning Michigan right now.

I hate Michigan, I wish the refs could penalize both teams evenly terribly but they have been hosed in the first half. Basically kept tOSU's first scoring drive alive and knocked out two drives of Michigan.

 

[ickythump1225]

Can we talk for a second about how terribly set up next year's schedule is? The biggest issue is that most teams play at least 3 "softies" for free wins... ND plays 1. And they play them week 2.

ND likely plays 10 bowl teams. TEN!

Stanford and Virginia Tech back-to-back, followed by a Pitt "let down" game before the bye. Northwestern = trap game between Navy and FSU. Four total teams that recruit "tier 1" talent... Michigan, Stanford, FSU, USC. VT will certainly be ranked and is one of the most hostile environments in sports.

Notre Dame could have an "elite" team and go 9-3 against that schedule. For contrast, Bama plays Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, and The Citadel spread throughout their schedule for de facto bye weeks. ND needs to wake up and start scheduling more baked-in byes to have a chance of being competitive...

Again, the "13th data point" argument is garbage. Next year's SECCG will be Bama's 10th data point.

 

[GATTACA!]

Again, the "13th data point" argument is garbage. Next year's SECCG will be Bama's 10th data point.

It's not about adding another good win, it's about not being out of sight out of mind on the most important week of the season. It's a lot easier for the committee to jump someone that they haven't seen play in 10 days vs someone that just hung 50 on Hawaii.

 

[NDRock]

Just curious? Can anyone on here articulate the rational to be 3/7's in the ACC?

I just don't get the wisdom to commit 5 games to a conference, but give up the best part of conference play which is the conf. Championship.

And a much easier ride into the NC most seasons.

This claiming to be half pregnant is very confusing to me.

Scheduling was difficult before the ACC deal. Most schools didn’t want to play big OOC games against us later in the season. It often made our schedules very front heavy. I like the current setup. We can still play different teams while keeping a core set of games.

 

[ickythump1225]

Scheduling was difficult before the ACC deal. Most schools didn’t want to play big OOC games against us later in the season. It often made our schedules very front heavy. I like the current setup. We can still play different teams while keeping a core set of games.

I like our set up and don't want to join the ACC. I like our scheduling flexibility and the interesting options we often have (playing in Ireland, Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium, Shamrock Series, etc.) that I feel like would be diluted if we lost independence. ND is different and our independence is a sign of our uniqueness and the fact that we do things differently than football factories.

 

[SonofOahu]

It's not about adding another good win, it's about not being out of sight out of mind on the most important week of the season. It's a lot easier for the committee to jump someone that they haven't seen play in 10 days vs someone that just hung 50 on Hawaii.

Or, it could take ND out of the running, if they play a December game in Hawaii and UH beats them, or loses a close game.

 

[GATTACA!]

Or, it could take ND out of the running, if they play a December game in Hawaii and UH beats them, or loses a close game.

If we lose to Hawaii we don't deserve to make the playoffs anyways.

 

[snoopdog]

I like our set up and don't want to join the ACC. I like our scheduling flexibility and the interesting options we often have (playing in Ireland, Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium, Shamrock Series, etc.) that I feel like would be diluted if we lost independence. ND is different and our independence is a sign of our uniqueness and the fact that we do things differently than football factories.

This is all good if you aren’t at interested in competing for the NC.

Not playing for and winning a conference championship will hurt ND’s chances going forward. The landscape for college football changed with the playoff. ND can continue to stay the course but at a cost.

 

[ACamp1900]

Can we talk for a second about how terribly set up next year's schedule is? The biggest issue is that most teams play at least 3 "softies" for free wins... ND plays 1. And they play them week 2.

ND likely plays 10 bowl teams. TEN!

Stanford and Virginia Tech back-to-back, followed by a Pitt "let down" game before the bye. Northwestern = trap game between Navy and FSU. Four total teams that recruit "tier 1" talent... Michigan, Stanford, FSU, USC. VT will certainly be ranked and is one of the most hostile environments in sports.

Notre Dame could have an "elite" team and go 9-3 against that schedule. For contrast, Bama plays Arkansas State, Louisiana-Lafayette, and The Citadel spread throughout their schedule for de facto bye weeks. ND needs to wake up and start scheduling more baked-in byes to have a chance of being competitive...

Missed all this over the holiday... glad I'm not in this foxhole by myself anymore.

In fact this dialogue got me going. I want everyone to remember who cheered when we added meatchicken back to the schedule and added UGA for that matter. Georgia Southern instead and we win ten games this year and have fun getting blasted at home to open the season next year (anything could happen but I think we all know the most likely scenario is not pretty). It works this way... win more games with a lighter schedule, get more recruits as result, start winning some big games as result, get even more big recruits as result of that, ND then takes the final step and no one with any power to do anything cares that ND plays only a couple losable games every year (see bama this year or tOSU most years).

To the bolded, there are very few teams in the nation that could realistically look at an undefeated run against 12 teams that are average to above average, week in, week out (forget sprinkling in a handful of really good to great teams) ... you need some games to breathe.

 

[koonja]

Buster had it right when he said we should play:

Rice
Rice
Rice
Rice
Rice
USC
Rice
Rice
Rice
Rice
Rice
Stanford

 

[NDohio]

I like our set up and don't want to join the ACC. I like our scheduling flexibility and the interesting options we often have (playing in Ireland, Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium, Shamrock Series, etc.) that I feel like would be diluted if we lost independence. ND is different and our independence is a sign of our uniqueness and the fact that we do things differently than football factories.

We can still play games in the unique settings. Those are games that are "home" games and we forfeit playing in South Bend.

What makes ND different than football factories are the academic standards that ND requires. Not how ridiculously difficult the schedule is.

 

[ACamp1900]

During a loss at the end of a grind season...

We are garbage, I hate Notre Dame

Even when we have the athletic edge we get smoked.

During talks about scheduling...

I like our set up and don't want to join the ACC. I like our scheduling flexibility and the interesting options we often have (playing in Ireland, Fenway Park, Yankee Stadium, Shamrock Series, etc.) that I feel like would be diluted if we lost independence. ND is different and our independence is a sign of our uniqueness and the fact that we do things differently than football factories.

Listen, I'm not trying to just pile on icky here, and get the core of the third post is about conference affiliation... but it still touches on something that has driven me crazy for years. If you like the way we schedule don't complain and lose your shit when we lose games because basically no one wins consistently with the schedules we play anymore.

 

[NDohio]

During a loss at the end of a grind season...





During talks about scheduling...




Listen, I'm not trying to just pile on icky here, and get the core of the third post is about conference affiliation... but it still touches on something that has driven me crazy for years. If you like the way we schedule don't complain and lose your shit when we lose games because basically no one else plays our type of unrelenting, no room for a misstep schedule anymore.

FIFY

 

[irishknight35]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame’s Shamrock Series returns in ’18 at Yankee Stadium as the Irish will close with a schedule that may hurt its playoff chances.<a href="https://t.co/eO0uYOb8KI">https://t.co/eO0uYOb8KI</a> <a href="https://t.co/T5Y7FpEXQo">pic.twitter.com/T5Y7FpEXQo</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/938848762931437568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[irishknight35]

Been a lot of negative takes on twitter regarding the end of schedule in '18 and for good reason. What is ND Doing?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame's final three games next year would be Florida State (home), Syracuse (Bronx, N.Y.) and USC (Los Angeles). Considering Brian Kelly said his team was spent in November this past year, cross-country travel wouldn't seem to be a solution. <a href="https://t.co/bLJeOlcnqA">https://t.co/bLJeOlcnqA</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/938811934408835072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irishnuke]

Been a lot of negative takes on twitter regarding the end of schedule in '18 and for good reason. What is ND Doing?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Notre Dame's final three games next year would be Florida State (home), Syracuse (Bronx, N.Y.) and USC (Los Angeles). Considering Brian Kelly said his team was spent in November this past year, cross-country travel wouldn't seem to be a solution. <a href="https://t.co/bLJeOlcnqA">https://t.co/bLJeOlcnqA</a></p>— Irish Illustrated (@PeteSampson_) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeteSampson_/status/938811934408835072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm sure it's tiring traveling back and forth, but really it's just an excuse. If they lose to Syracuse next year, it won't be because they've been on a plane too much.

 

[GowerND11]

I'm sure it's tiring traveling back and forth, but really it's just an excuse. If they lose to Syracuse next year, it won't be because they've been on a plane too much.

It's not so much losing to Syracuse. It's playing FSU at home, which would be a tough game, traveling to the Bronx for an SS game, games we know opponents want to win (more so than others) to spoil these games, then flying back to South Bend, only to fly across country to USC.

It's losing to USC because we are drained from the previous two games and travel.

 

[gkIrish]

We might already have 3 losses going into this game so it won't matter lol

 

[Rogue219]

2018, three decades since they last won The Whole Megillah, and they want to barnstorm America like Rockne in the 1920s.

I fail to understand how this puts them in the best position to win and who benefits from scheduling like this.