The Jameis Winston Investigation Thread

[greyhammer90]

Those of you that feel like beating FSU without Jameis doesn't mean much are extremely crazy and need to stop watching ESPN or whatever else brainwashes you.

I don't think you understand. In college football perception = reality. ESPN has a near monopoly on perception in college football. If we beat FSU without Winston, do you really think we're getting any credit?

Also I'll say I don't really care about the playoffs right now so I'm not discussing the "if we win them all perception doesn't matter" argument. I care about legitimizing the brand of Notre dame football across the country and in recruits minds. We're still seen by most CFB fans as a joke with artificial relevance.

 

[koonja]

I don't think you understand. In college football perception = reality. ESPN has a near monopoly on perception in college football. If we beat FSU without Winston, do you really think we're getting any credit?

Also I'll say I don't really care about the playoffs right now so I'm not discussing the "if we win them all perception doesn't matter" argument. I care about legitimizing the brand of Notre dame football across the country and in recruits minds. We're still seen by most CFB fans as a joke with artificial relevance.

This is my exact point.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

If you guys think my argument is soley based on getting into the playoffs, then you won't get my point, so agree to disagree. Your argument is all based on playoffs, so you are correct. Mine is not.

And you're discounting the fact that in your scenario, it could hurt us that Winston doesn't play. What if we face their true frosh and get beat? It'd probably be better for the playoffs if we lost and Winston was playing, provided we don't get thrashed because of him. But that's unlikely and not my point, just saying.

I don't think ND has the SOS to sneak into the playoffs with one loss, especially if that loss is to the best team on the schedule. Their preseason ranking of #1 SOS has been dismantled as teams just aren't as good as first thought. With or without Winston, a loss is a loss for ND and barring some miracle, they'll have a very difficult time proving they belong among the Top 4.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I don't think you understand. In college football perception = reality. ESPN has a near monopoly on perception in college football. If we beat FSU without Winston, do you really think we're getting any credit?

Also I'll say I don't really care about the playoffs right now so I'm not discussing the "if we win them all perception doesn't matter" argument. I care about legitimizing the brand of Notre dame football across the country and in recruits minds. We're still seen by most CFB fans as a joke with artificial relevance.

This is my exact point.

Just saw this. I agree to an extent. However, someone will always find a way to hate on ND. I care more about justice than I do convincing haters that ND is legit.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

It's up to the individual how they interpret the question and provide a vote. Most of the Yes voters are putting ethical matters second to winning the big game. To each their own. But it drives home my point. People, some ND fans included, want to see this kid play regardless of what he's done (and what he's allegedly done). I have a problem with that.

Well, I'm setting it aside momentarily for the purposes of a more interesting internet discussion. I don't see that as tantamount to making ethical matters secondary (in real terms) to winning the big game.

I hope FSU does what's right. I am definitely hoping he is punished in a manner commensurate with his actions.

 

[yankeeND]

As far as just being an ND fan is concerned in dealing with the outcome of the game, I would feel much better with a win vs. a loss regardless of who is QB on their team. In the end just gotta have more points than them and I will be a happy camper!

 

[gkIrish]

I don't think you understand. In college football perception = reality. ESPN has a near monopoly on perception in college football. If we beat FSU without Winston, do you really think we're getting any credit?

Yes.

Also I'll say I don't really care about the playoffs right now so I'm not discussing the "if we win them all perception doesn't matter" argument. I care about legitimizing the brand of Notre dame football across the country and in recruits minds. We're still seen by most CFB fans as a joke with artificial relevance.

No.

 

[NDohio]

It's up to the individual how they interpret the question and provide a vote. Most of the Yes voters are putting ethical matters second to winning the big game. To each their own. But it drives home my point. People, some ND fans included, want to see this kid play regardless of what he's done (and what he's allegedly done). I have a problem with that.

I want us to beat FSU with Winston at the helm to make a statement. The statement has nothing to do with us getting into the playoffs. I want to beat FSU with Winston to say to the college football world that yes, you can do things the right way - strong morals, ethics, and academia - and still win. I want to show that UND not only prepares student-athletes for the real world with a 97% graduation rate, but Notre Dame can also prepare it's student athletes to be champions on the field. That is why I want Winston to play. And I believe we can come out on top with him playing.

 

[tussin]

Sweet, thank you for adding the pool.

I voted yes.

My head is saying vote no and agrees with Wooly and others on here. But deep down, I think we are going to win regardless of whether Winston plays or not. So let's take them out with their best on the field.

 

[greyhammer90]

Yes.



No.

Out of curiosity where do you live? Because I'd like to vacation in a place where the residents don't smirk knowingly every time Notre Dame is brought up as a top ten team.

 

[gkIrish]

Out of curiosity where do you live? Because I'd like to vacation in a place where the residents don't smirk knowingly every time Notre Dame is brought up as a top ten team.

You live in SEC country so you are naturally going to get that reaction from people. In the northeast, it's a lot more reasonable. Don't worry about what Georgia fans think.

Without Jameis would you say that FSU would still be a top 10 team? I would think so. They beat Clemson without him and it's not like the rest of their schedule was difficult.

So with him we beat the #2 team in the country. Without him, say they would be about the 8th best team. Still a really quality win.

 

[koonja]

Out of curiosity where do you live? Because I'd like to vacation in a place where the residents don't smirk knowingly every time Notre Dame is brought up as a top ten team.

In Columbus, the radio guys were saying on Sunday that Auburn would beat ND by 3 TDs easily. I'm so sick of hearing this everytime we're good and that perception doesn't change much IMO if we beat a 3rd string, true freshman this weekend.

 

[woolybug25]

In Columbus, the radio guys were saying Auburn would beat ND by 3 TDs easily. I'm so sick of hearing this everytime we're good and that perception doesn't change much IMO if we beat a 3rd string, true freshman this weekend.

Dude... Columbus hates on Notre Dame no matter what. If you think beating FSU with Winston at the helm would change that, you are dead wrong. Notre Dame could beat God 57-0 and OSU radio guys would be saying that ND got lucky and the officiating was bad.

Again, getting to the playoffs is far more important than this single game. Any playoff game would have far more of an impact than a week 7 matchup. You want to see perceptions changed, then move. You aren't ever going to get that in Columbus. If you want to see it change with recruits, then we need to win playoff games.

 

[greyhammer90]

You live in SEC country so you are naturally going to get that reaction from people. In the northeast, it's a lot more reasonable. Don't worry about what Georgia fans think.

Is it natural? I don't see the same reaction about Oklahoma, Florida State, Oregon, etc. We're perceived as a joke. And perception = reality. And keep in mind this is an area our coaches are trying to recruit. Nobody's going to make fun of the local running back going to Oregon. But Notre Dame?

EDIT: Either way, I want us to beat them. But I want to see Notre Dane finally nut up and beat a legitimate top 3 team. If Winston is gone I will feel robbed of that going forward. I'll also say that I think you're minimizing Winstons effect on his team.

 

[koonja]

Dude... Columbus hates on Notre Dame no matter what. If you think beating FSU with Winston at the helm would change that, you are dead wrong. Notre Dame could beat God 57-0 and OSU radio guys would be saying that ND got lucky and the officiating was bad.

Again, getting to the playoffs is far more important than this single game. Any playoff game would have far more of an impact than a week 7 matchup. You want to see perceptions changed, then move. You aren't ever going to get that in Columbus. If you want to see it change with recruits, then we need to win playoff games.

I just don't agree with this so agree to disagree. Beating FSU, with Winston, at FSU, would give ND football a huge boost in respect across all regions.

And it doesn't bother me that they think that because nationally, what big games has ND won lately?

And again, you guys act like Winston playing hurts our chances no matter what. That's not true. If we lose to Winston 34-24, or the freshman by 31-28, which one looks worse? At least in the former we lost to a legit power house. Losing to the freshman is going to look like losing to ~ #15 team.

 

[Luckylucci]

You live in SEC country so you are naturally going to get that reaction from people. In the northeast, it's a lot more reasonable. Don't worry about what Georgia fans think.

Without Jameis would you say that FSU would still be a top 10 team? I would think so. They beat Clemson without him and it's not like the rest of their schedule was difficult.

So with him we beat the #2 team in the country. Without him, say they would be about the 8th best team. Still a really quality win.

I think this is a really good point. I don't know if I'd say 8th best but thats besides the point. It would still be a quality win like you mentioned. However, I voted for Winston to stay because I very very much dislike him as a human being and beating him would give me the utmost joy. If I was ND's defense, I would want the chance to beat Jameis for the first and only time. Sports are about competition and you compete to be the best. Beating the best is a challenge you want.

 

[OCIrish]

In Columbus, the radio guys were saying on Sunday that Auburn would beat ND by 3 TDs easily. I'm so sick of hearing this everytime we're good and that perception doesn't change much IMO if we beat a 3rd string, true freshman this weekend.

You have to remember that you're in B1G country, and Urban is losing more recruiting wars than he's winning against Kelly.......they probably failed to mention that not one team in the mighty B1G could hang with ANYBODY in the $EC.

I voted my conscious on this one......yeah, Winston will play this weekend, and I have a feeling we will win, however, he's the biggest piece of $hit to come along in college football in some time. This crap of, well....he's a good kid, really.......and he's just doing what other college kids his age do......that's horseshit!!!!! FSU has protected this kid no matter what he's done, and will continue to do. I find it completely reprehensible that the kid has been allowed to play at all this season.

 

[irishog77]

Out of curiosity where do you live? Because I'd like to vacation in a place where the residents don't smirk knowingly every time Notre Dame is brought up as a top ten team.

This. All day. Every day.

But the Mississippi schools are totally legit...cause, ya know, ess eee cee.

 

[woolybug25]

Is it natural? I don't see the same reaction about Oklahoma, Florida State, Oregon, etc. We're perceived as a joke. And perception = reality. And keep in mind this is an area our coaches are trying to recruit. Nobody's going to make fun of the local running back going to Oregon. But Notre Dame?

Yeah. I'm with GKIrish. I have lived in multiple places across the country, and have only seen pockets of the kind of hate you're talking about. My dad lives in Charleston, and I don't even see it there. I remember being there before the national title game in '12 and listening to local jocks talk about how impressed they were with Notre Dame.

I also think the proof is in the pudding. If the entire south really saw us as a joke than a third of our roster wouldn't be from the south.

 

[koonja]

I don't think the word 'hate' is accurate. I don't feel OSU hates ND at all. Or at least their alumnis and current students that I work with.

The simply don't think we've beaten anyone in the past decade plus, and it's hard to argue with them. That's one of the reasons I want Winston.

Can't speak for greyhammer, I doubt Georgia hates ND. They just don't respect them as a national player.

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think the word 'hate' is accurate. I don't feel OSU hates ND at all. Or at least their alumnis and current students that I work with.

The simply don't think we've beaten anyone in the past decade plus, and it's hard to argue with them. That's one of the reasons I want Winston.

Can't speak for greyhammer, I doubt Georgia hates ND. They just don't respect them as a national player.

Haha, OSU DOES hate ND. It happened, at least IMO, after the Fiesta Bowl after the '05 season. Ohio State fans saw an ass-whooping, and yet ND kept trucking along and plucking recruits from Ohio here and there, and was still in the spotlight.

I think OSU fans assumed ND would crawl into a hole after that loss, and when it didn't happen, their hate collectively grew x10.

 

[woolybug25]

I just don't agree with this so agree to disagree. Beating FSU, with Winston, at FSU, would give ND football a huge boost in respect across all regions.

With all due respect, your previous comments kind of alluded to the fact that you are pretty green when it comes to understanding the regional views of Notre Dame.

And it doesn't bother me that they think that because nationally, what big games has ND won lately?

Again... you do realize that even if Winston did play, in certain circles, it wouldn't be considered a big game either way. But for your info, we beat the #14 team in the country three freaking weeks ago. We have beat ranked teams every year BK has been here. If your view of "winning big games" only means beating the #1 team in the country, then there are literally only a handful of teams that have done that since BK arrived at Notre Dame.

And again, you guys act like Winston playing hurts our chances no matter what. That's not true. If we lose to Winston 34-24, or the freshman by 31-28, which one looks worse? At least in the former we lost to a legit power house. Losing to the freshman is going to look like losing to ~ #15 team.

This is a point you are not getting. Losing does hurt us either way. Why? Because otherwise we would be undefeated and there would be no conversation if we deserved a spot. It's the difference of us being a sure fire playoff team, and there having to be a conversation on whether we are or not. Under your misguided worldview of Notre Dame, that certainly shouldn't work in our favor, should it?

 

[wizards8507]

We're perceived as a joke.

By whom, exactly? I've never experienced that, including the three years I spend living in Florida. The only crap I've ever gotten from anyone for the giant ND flag, parking signs, and ticket stubs on my wall have been about Manti's catfishing and the 2012 championship (from 'Bama fans specifically, not just general people). When I interviewed for my current position, my Senior VP said something along the lines of "I'd do anything if my sons could go to ND."

Everything with Notre Dame is magnified to the point that Irish fans focus on negative press and think everyone hates us while non-Irish fans focus on the positive press and think everyone kisses our ass.

 

[irishog77]

Yeah. I'm with GKIrish. I have lived in multiple places across the country, and have only seen pockets of the kind of hate you're talking about. My dad lives in Charleston, and I don't even see it there. I remember being there before the national title game in '12 and listening to local jocks talk about how impressed they were with Notre Dame.

I also think the proof is in the pudding. If the entire south really saw us as a joke than a third of our roster wouldn't be from the south.

I don't think this lends much credence to your argument. 99% of the rosters of troy, mtsu, florida atlantic and every other middling team from the region are from the south, yet they still suck.

ND recruits athletes and students from all over the country. Their hometown geography, in this instance, means little.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I just don't agree with this so agree to disagree. Beating FSU, with Winston, at FSU, would give ND football a huge boost in respect across all regions.

And it doesn't bother me that they think that because nationally, what big games has ND won lately?

And again, you guys act like Winston playing hurts our chances no matter what. That's not true. If we lose to Winston 34-24, or the freshman by 31-28, which one looks worse? At least in the former we lost to a legit power house. Losing to the freshman is going to look like losing to ~ #15 team.

2012: ND beat #10 MSU on the road, #17 Stanford, #8 Oklahoma on the road, at USC (even unranked, beating USC on the road carries weight). Yes, they got trucked in the championship game which pretty much annihilated any credibility they had earned up to that point. But they had some big wins that year.

2013: MSU is probably the only big game they won that year imo. MSU was only ranked #24 at the time, but that team lost one game (to ND) all season and finished the year beating #2 ranked OSU in the B1G Champ game and #5 Stanford in the Rose Bowl. To me, ND winning that game was a big deal.

2014: #14 Stanford. See below. Regardless of the situation, beating them carries some clout.

Beating MSU and Stanford is a big deal in recent football history. Both programs have established themselves and have earned respect among college football's semi-elite teams. No, they're not a powerhouse SEC team, but they are respected and ND has beaten them numerous times.

 

[koonja]

With all due respect, your previous comments kind of alluded to the fact that you are pretty green when it comes to understanding the regional views of Notre Dame.



Again... you do realize that even if Winston did play, in certain circles, it wouldn't be considered a big game either way. But for your info, we beat the #14 team in the country three freaking weeks ago. We have beat ranked teams every year BK has been here. If your view of "winning big games" only means beating the #1 team in the country, then there are literally only a handful of teams that have done that since BK arrived at Notre Dame.



This is a point you are not getting. Losing does hurt us either way. Why? Because otherwise we would be undefeated and there would be no conversation if we deserved a spot. It's the difference of us being a sure fire playoff team, and there having to be a conversation on whether we are or not. Under your misguided worldview of Notre Dame, that certainly shouldn't work in our favor, should it?

I've lived in Wisconsin for 2\65 years, Colorado for 1, and OH for 1 FWIW.

I just don't agree with that. Everyone knows this is a big game. Defending champs, heisman, longest current winning streak, it's the ideal big game.

Of course losing hurts. But losing by 10 to Winston on the road is better IMO than losing to the true freshman on the road by 3.

IF Auburn had lost to MSU without Prescott, but only lost by 3, would we be laughing? I would. But as is, I still think Auburn is legit.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't think this lends much credence to your argument. 99% of the rosters of troy, mtsu, florida atlantic and every other middling team from the region are from the south, yet they still suck.

ND recruits athletes and students from all over the country. Their hometown geography, in this instance, means little.

The Troy, MTSU, and and Florida Atlantic kids don't have offers from LSU, Auburn, and Florida State. Wooly's point is that kids from those areas are picking us OVER schools that presumably aren't "a joke."

 

[irishog77]

By whom, exactly? I've never experienced that, including the three years I spend living in Florida. The only crap I've ever gotten from anyone for the giant ND flag, parking signs, and ticket stubs on my wall have been about Manti's catfishing and the 2012 championship (from 'Bama fans specifically, not just general people). When I interviewed for my current position, my Senior VP said something along the lines of "I'd do anything if my sons could go to ND."

Everything with Notre Dame is magnified to the point that Irish fans focus on negative press and think everyone hates us while non-Irish fans focus on the positive press and think everyone kisses our ass.

Yes, people respect ND as a school, but not as a football program. Big difference.

 

[woolybug25]

I don't think this lends much credence to your argument. 99% of the rosters of troy, mtsu, florida atlantic and every other middling team from the region are from the south, yet they still suck.

ND recruits athletes and students from all over the country. Their hometown geography, in this instance, means little.

Let me rephrase then... If the entire south really saw us as a joke than a third of our roster wouldn't be southern recruits with SEC offers.

 

[koonja]

2012: ND beat #10 MSU on the road, #17 Stanford, #8 Oklahoma on the road, at USC (even unranked, beating USC on the road carries weight). Yes, they got trucked in the championship game which pretty much annihilated any credibility they had earned up to that point. But they had some big wins that year.

2013: MSU is probably the only big game they won that year imo. MSU was only ranked #24 at the time, but that team lost one game (to ND) all season and finished the year beating #2 ranked OSU in the B1G Champ game and #5 Stanford in the Rose Bowl. To me, ND winning that game was a big deal.

2014: #14 Stanford. See below. Regardless of the situation, beating them carries some clout.

Beating MSU and Stanford is a big deal in recent football history. Both programs have established themselves and have earned respect among college football's semi-elite teams. No, they're not a powerhouse SEC team, but they are respected and ND has beaten them numerous times.

Good luck selling those as big games to the nation.