The Best NDNation thread of all-times???

IrishLax

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You are cherry picking a lot of there posts. And yes I do support what they're doing. Nothing Has crossed the line yet. I'm all for asking questions, especially when you're a Catholic University. You don't want any ties to this disgusting story.

Correct, I am cherry picking. Because there is not a single person who has posted something that says they disagree with any of those posts. They obviously all agree with the mind set of "get Jack fired, facts be damned" or someone would've spoken up against the witch hunt.

The "let's ask the questions" is just code for what the other people are willing to say outright.

I'm not going to belittle you or your opinion, so I'll simply say I find it deplorable that those people over there are behaving how they are and gleefully conspiring to paint an ND alum as a rape enabler because he - at worst - did his job as a lawyer.
 

Cali_domer

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Correct, I am cherry picking. Because there is not a single person who has posted something that says they disagree with any of those posts. They obviously all agree with the mind set of "get Jack fired, facts be damned" or someone would've spoken up against the witch hunt.

The "let's ask the questions" is just code for what the other people are willing to say outright.

I'm not going to belittle you or your opinion, so I'll simply say I find it deplorable that those people over there are behaving how they are and gleefully conspiring to paint an ND alum as a rape enabler because he - at worst - did his job as a lawyer.

How big of you not to belittle me. I know it is hard for you not to do so. :)
 

Andy in Sactown

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Here is what they are posting:

1. There is a post that simply says "Jack knew"... no facts, they just HOPE there is a scandal so he can be fired.

2. They are bragging about getting avowed ND hater Gregg Doyel to investigate. They are saying that it doesn't matter if Jack did anything wrong or knew anything, that because he can't answer the questions that will be asked because of his job as a lawyer that it'll be a PR nightmare if someone simply asks the questions and that'll get ND to cut ties... so the goal is the PR nightmare for ND and a firing. That's all they care about.

3. Another just says it's time to fire him because of his link to USAG and that he won't be missed. Not based on any evidence, just because he was employed there 20 years ago.

Just to confirm... this is what you support from NDNation?

This is a disgusting narrative. NDNation should be ashamed of themselves.

Of course, they're not; which is a bit nauseating.
 

IrishLax

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Mentioning "belittling" as being even on your mind is hardly being "diplomatic". I call it passive aggressive.

I call it being as nice as possible to someone who doesn't understand how lawyers work, and who thinks manufacturing conspiracy theories to get someone labeled a child-rape-enabler and fired is appropriate.

:)
 

Domina Nostra

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People don't seem to get the difference between publicly posting:

(1) silly rumors about things like football,
(2) salacious rumors about celebrities who put their lives on public display for profit,
(3) hurtful rumors that can damage a private person's reputation, and
(4) scandalous rumors that can ruin a person's career/life.

Posting (1) doesn't matter. Posting (2) is kind of gorss, but the name of the game. Posting (3) and (4) is wrong--and can be illegal depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes, you just have to live with the fact that a public forum is not the place for every speculative discussion about what you heard or what might have happened.
 

Cali_domer

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I call it being as nice as possible to someone who doesn't understand how lawyers work, and who thinks manufacturing conspiracy theories to get someone labeled a child-rape-enabler and fired is appropriate.

:)
I'm sorry Mister lawyer. But the story hasn't totally unfolded yet. So :) you continue on your little Merry way. I have never accused him of anything I just actually unlike you want to hear all the facts. Mr. Mod
 

Cali_domer

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People don't seem to get the difference between publicly posting:

(1) silly rumors about things like football,
(2) salacious rumors about celebrities who put their lives on public display for profit,
(3) hurtful rumors that can damage a private person's reputation, and
(4) scandalous rumors that can ruin a person's career/life.

Posting (1) doesn't matter. Posting (2) is kind of gorss, but the name of the game. Posting (3) and (4) is wrong--and can be illegal depending on the circumstances.

Sometimes, you just have to live with the fact that a public forum is not the place for every speculative discussion about what you heard or what might have happened.
I have not posted anything close to number four. And I won't, I just want to let the facts play out. I am accusing him of nothing.
 
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IrishLax

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I have not posted anything close to number four. And I won't, I just want to let the facts play out. I am accusing him of nothing.

lol that is literally what they are doing on NDNation and you said you support them...

You're not fooling anyone, Mr. "I Just Want Facts".
 

Cali_domer

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lol that is literally what they are doing on NDNation and you said you support them...

You're not fooling anyone, Mr. "I Just Want Facts".
This is a giant waste of time, I don't want to fool you. I don't know you. I do care about what I have read and it is concerning. I get your point, but I disagree. As long as Swarbrick is not accused by people at Ndnation(most are being careful) I support asking questions. I really hope nothing happens because ND will be in the crosshairs, which I don't want to happen. But I want the questions asked.
 
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Rocket89

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This is a giant waste of time, I don't want to fool you. I don't know you. I do care about what I have read and it is concerning. I get your point, but I disagree. As long as Swarbrick is not accused by people at Ndnation(most are being careful) I support asking questions. I really hope nothing happens because ND will be in the crosshairs, which I don't want to happen. But I want the questions asked.

Which questions would you liked asked? This is something even NDN really hasn't defined. I'll get to why that is in a second.

Realistically, the absolute worst-case scenario here is if it's proved Swarbrick helped in a cover up of some sort. So let's follow asking that question through:

A) He's way down the ladder of people in the cross-hairs. One of many lawyers. Hasn't been involved in a number of years. As such, he's unlikely to be a part of any deep investigation.

B) As a lawyer, we're unlikely to get straight answers from him, or from others attributing actions to Swarbrick.

Now, for some people that might be unseemly and maybe even unfair--and there's no doubt that NDN is taking issue B above to mean he's guilty. So, let's take it another step.

From everything we know, Swarbrick was involved as one of the lawyers who confronted sexual abuse allegations and helped the USAG put some policies in place. Quite simply all we know at this point is that Swarbrick was part of a group that recommended changes to their handling on the issue---and it's pretty clear as day that Swarbrick and many others were ignored.

If you follow this line of reasoning then this would mean the smoking gun for Swarbrick would be him reversing course from what he was paid to craft as legal counsel AND there's evidence of him doing so. I believe the odds of both of these being true is very, very small.

Back to my point above. NDN knows it's highly unlikely Swarbrick is ever investigated in any real manner but that's what makes this a perfect story for them. Without anyone there to clear his name he'll forever be guilty.

He's guilty ---> Feign proper protocol "just asking questions!" ---> Continue to post as if he's guilty ---> Nothing happens in the media ---> Double down on guilty sentence

Look at the Declan Sullivan accident, for example. There we even had a thorough investigation, the family didn't point fingers, policies were put in place to make sure it never happens again, etc. and yet to this day Swarbrick is roasted by NDN for it most commonly through jokes about the incident. Think they respect the Sullivan family and his memory or does something else take precedent?

Anyone should know this won't be about those poor girls and women who were sexually assaulted. That's the real unfortunate part from this smear campaign.

My best guess is that in the future, once it becomes clear that this large investigation isn't going to be rounding up dozens of lawyers, there will be a pivot towards the empty legal issue but more murky ethical issue that Swarbrick "knew" and failed to act. This will be NDN truth if it's not already.
 
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STLDomer

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giphy.gif
 

ACamp1900

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Do those fools know y'all laugh at them all the time?
 

RDU Irish

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First of all, that's not how this works. If you're a lawyer you represent your client, period. This isn't like being an administrator and overseeing someone who is committing a crime and turning a blind eye.

Johnny Cochran is not evil for defending OJ Simpson, etc. Do people not understand how being a lawyer works? I'm honestly curious, because apparently one of the dudes over there is a lawyer.

Second, there is not a single shred of anything that points to any unethical action by Swarbrick whatsoever much less any knowledge of anything... there is no connection, at all, except for what people want to make up so that they can get him fired. I mean seriously there are hundreds of people who worked for USAG in the 90s and have no connection to this case AT ALL... and Swarbrick is the only one of those people with no apparent connection to the case that people are going "I want to know what he knew"... and the insane part is that they are Notre Dame fans. It's just insanely obvious faux concern for the victims where what they really want is to desperately see Swarbrick fired.

But OJ was innocent #analogyfail
 

RDU Irish

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I also don't get the Swarbrick hate? I see him as one of if not the premier AD in the land. My only major bitch is the football schedule. However, for the philosophy they seem to be employing - it is well very well executed. Facilities, all other sports ... really across the board I don't know how they could have done it much better over the last ten years?

Criticizing without any respect for the objective he is actually given is a fools errand. Take it up with the BOD and administration if you think the university should focus 100% on football and everything else be damned. It's like bitching about the pitcher throwing a curveball when that is what he was instructed to do.
 

IrishLion

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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A list of people accused of enabling Larry Nassar: <a href="https://t.co/GIBnq0yTrX">https://t.co/GIBnq0yTrX</a> <a href="https://t.co/sLwg9XPxt7">pic.twitter.com/sLwg9XPxt7</a></p>— Deadspin (@Deadspin) <a href="https://twitter.com/Deadspin/status/958340588260257792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 30, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I'll save everyone the click: even the diehard ND-haters and click-bait extraordinaires at Deadspin didn't link any of the lawyers to the case... it's almost like even one of the worst "journalistic" entities in the world, who would LOVE to implicate ND for any reason, know that you can't implicate a lawyer for their clients' crimes.
 

Domina Nostra

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What I think is funny about NDNation is that they think of themselves as passing on some torch for Notre Dame, but they:

1) Talk like Justin Beiber, or a rapper, assuming everyone who finds them unbearable secretly wants to be them ("If you don't like us, it's cause your jealous, haters. [List professional accomplishments here] . . . ")

2) Talk like they are on Twitter: no thought is worth having if it can't be boiled down to two lines or less.

3) Emotionally rant about how other men do their jobs in anonymous internet football forums, but think that they are mature, brave, truth-tellers when people shake their heads

4) Never make the big connection: They claim the true spirit of Notre Dame is "Excellence." While the administration thinks there is some conflict between football greatness and academic greatness, ND should always strive for both. Instead ND has accepted mediocre football as the path of least resistance. But the true spirit of Notre Dame is Catholicism, and they seemingly have no qualms that the school has bought into a mediocre version of the faith to smooth things over for football, the faculty, etc.
 
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Veritate Duce Progredi

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What I think is funny about NDNation is that they think of themselves as passing on some torch for Notre Dame, but they:

1) Talk like Justin Beiber, or a rapper, assuming everyone who finds them unbearable secretly wants to be them ("If you don't like us, it's cause your jealous, haters. [List professional accomplishments here] . . . ")

2) Talk like they are on Twitter: no thought is worth having if it can't be boiled down to two lines or less.

3) Emotionally rant about how other men do their jobs in anonymous internet football forums, but think that they are mature, brave, truth-tellers when people shake their heads

4) Never make the big connection: They claim the true spirit of Notre Dame is "Excellence." While the administration thinks there is some conflict between football greatness and academic greatness, ND should always strive for both. Instead ND has accepted mediocre football as the path of least resistance. But the true spirit of Notre Dame is Catholicism, and they seemingly have no qualms that the school has bought into a mediocre version of the faith to smooth things over for football, the faculty, etc.

They are the fvcking worst. Anyone who contributed to those billboards is an übermensch
 

greyhammer90

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They are the fvcking worst. Anyone who contributed to those billboards is an übermensch

Either you're making a philosophic statement on the nature of their subjective morality that it's too early in the morning for me to get, or you're using the word ubermensch wrong.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Either you're making a philosophic statement on the nature of their subjective morality that it's too early in the morning for me to get, or you're using the word ubermensch wrong.

I guess I've always thought of an übermensch as someone who puts their own goals ahead of all else. They believe they know the true path, the true way of being and so they embark on their journey of changing the world and becoming the über-man.

They are hell bent on enforcing their will. Rather than bending the knee to the larger administrative powers, they believe it's their right to enforce change when they are unhappy with how things have gone.

The hubris to go down this path is astonishing.

I'm open to further developing/pruning my understanding of übermensch so feel free to point out any issues you see.
 

Meatloaf

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I guess I've always thought of an übermensch as someone who puts their own goals ahead of all else. They believe they know the true path, the true way of being and so they embark on their journey of changing the world and becoming the über-man.

They are hell bent on enforcing their will. Rather than bending the knee to the larger administrative powers, they believe it's their right to enforce change when they are unhappy with how things have gone.

The hubris to go down this path is astonishing.

I'm open to further developing/pruning my understanding of übermensch so feel free to point out any issues you see.


This does a good job of explaining the concept:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/i6esRZLAR1Q" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

At the risk of derailing the thread I'll just add that NDNation posters are a bunch of clowns.
 

greyhammer90

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I guess I've always thought of an übermensch as someone who puts their own goals ahead of all else. They believe they know the true path, the true way of being and so they embark on their journey of changing the world and becoming the über-man.

They are hell bent on enforcing their will. Rather than bending the knee to the larger administrative powers, they believe it's their right to enforce change when they are unhappy with how things have gone.

The hubris to go down this path is astonishing.

I'm open to further developing/pruning my understanding of übermensch so feel free to point out any issues you see.

Alright, so that's what you were getting at. That's a fine use of word if that's what you've defined the term as. Though I will say that your definition is an extremely critical interpretation of a flawed example of the original unflawed concept. It's a difficult term to define though, since the definition changes based on the usage, and its been used to describe everyone and everything from Superman to the Third Reich. Often the common usage doesn't even touch upon the original moralistic concept. Most people these days use it in a genetic sense, likely because of the Nazi-parties bastardization of the phrase. It's also difficult to fully define because to do so means that you understand Nietzsche. And nobody understands what the hell Nietzsche is talking about. :wink:
 

dshans

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Not having read much Nietzsche (I tried when assigned, but fell asleep) I went with ubermensch as a superlatively nice person.

Silly me.
 

Ndaccountant

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Regardless of the agenda driven "questioning" going on at that website, I think we can all agree that complicity is not tantamount to criminality. As many have stated, Jack had a job to do and did it. For that, any reasonable person should find difficulty in debating.

But as it relates to ND, I do find myself concerned around the morality of the situation. Sexual abuse scandals in both USA Gymnastics and USA Swimming depict an environment where the organizations lived a "protect your own" type mantra. The organizations have much to protect. Was there an inherent moral conflict between protecting an organization and protecting the safety and well being of young athletes? That is a large topic to unravel, but it becomes important when someone who helped steer those organizations is now leading an athletic department -- that contains a football program worth over $850m according to the WSJ -- for the most prestigious Catholic university in the United States.

ND has had it's fair share of issues that seem to be tight-rope walking Catholic doctrine and morality. As someone that loves the University and what it represents, I would personally find comfort in knowing there is no conflict within ND and "protecting it's own".

If there is no issue, I will be delighted. If there was/is a conflict, I would hope the University stands by it's mission...In all dimensions of the University, Notre Dame pursues its objectives through the formation of an authentic human community graced by the Spirit of Christ.

It's a very uncomfortable topic and to be clear, I am not exactly sure of what ND should do, if anything. But to dismiss the topic because of the way NDNation is advancing it, is missing a point to further advance the University's mission.
 

IrishLax

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Regardless of the agenda driven "questioning" going on at that website, I think we can all agree that complicity is not tantamount to criminality. As many have stated, Jack had a job to do and did it. For that, any reasonable person should find difficulty in debating.

But as it relates to ND, I do find myself concerned around the morality of the situation. Sexual abuse scandals in both USA Gymnastics and USA Swimming depict an environment where the organizations lived a "protect your own" type mantra. The organizations have much to protect. Was there an inherent moral conflict between protecting an organization and protecting the safety and well being of young athletes? That is a large topic to unravel, but it becomes important when someone who helped steer those organizations is now leading an athletic department -- that contains a football program worth over $850m according to the WSJ -- for the most prestigious Catholic university in the United States.

ND has had it's fair share of issues that seem to be tight-rope walking Catholic doctrine and morality. As someone that loves the University and what it represents, I would personally find comfort in knowing there is no conflict within ND and "protecting it's own".

If there is no issue, I will be delighted. If there was/is a conflict, I would hope the University stands by it's mission...In all dimensions of the University, Notre Dame pursues its objectives through the formation of an authentic human community graced by the Spirit of Christ.

It's a very uncomfortable topic and to be clear, I am not exactly sure of what ND should do, if anything. But to dismiss the topic because of the way NDNation is advancing it, is missing a point to further advance the University's mission.

Rocket addressed this quite eloquently a couple posts up. No one is dismissing it because NDN is advancing it. It's being dismissed because it's nonsense not rooted in any fact or evidence, and because their approach is clearly geared towards generating bad optics and a narrative above all else. The below phrases it better than I ever could...

Which questions would you liked asked? This is something even NDN really hasn't defined. I'll get to why that is in a second.

Realistically, the absolute worst-case scenario here is if it's proved Swarbrick helped in a cover up of some sort. So let's follow asking that question through:

A) He's way down the ladder of people in the cross-hairs. One of many lawyers. Hasn't been involved in a number of years. As such, he's unlikely to be a part of any deep investigation.

B) As a lawyer, we're unlikely to get straight answers from him, or from others attributing actions to Swarbrick.

Now, for some people that might be unseemly and maybe even unfair--and there's no doubt that NDN is taking issue B above to mean he's guilty. So, let's take it another step.

From everything we know, Swarbrick was involved as one of the lawyers who confronted sexual abuse allegations and helped the USAG put some policies in place. Quite simply all we know at this point is that Swarbrick was part of a group that recommended changes to their handling on the issue---and it's pretty clear as day that Swarbrick and many others were ignored.

If you follow this line of reasoning then this would mean the smoking gun for Swarbrick would be him reversing course from what he was paid to craft as legal counsel AND there's evidence of him doing so. I believe the odds of both of these being true is very, very small.

Back to my point above. NDN knows it's highly unlikely Swarbrick is ever investigated in any real manner but that's what makes this a perfect story for them. Without anyone there to clear his name he'll forever be guilty.

He's guilty ---> Feign proper protocol "just asking questions!" ---> Continue to post as if he's guilty ---> Nothing happens in the media ---> Double down on guilty sentence


Look at the Declan Sullivan accident, for example. There we even had a thorough investigation, the family didn't point fingers, policies were put in place to make sure it never happens again, etc. and yet to this day Swarbrick is roasted by NDN for it most commonly through jokes about the incident. Think they respect the Sullivan family and his memory or does something else take precedent?

Anyone should know this won't be about those poor girls and women who were sexually assaulted. That's the real unfortunate part from this smear campaign.

My best guess is that in the future, once it becomes clear that this large investigation isn't going to be rounding up dozens of lawyers, there will be a pivot towards the empty legal issue but more murky ethical issue that Swarbrick "knew" and failed to act. This will be NDN truth if it's not already.
 
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