Superconferences & Realignment

[NDinL.A.]

You are right I am entitled to my opinion and I am not attacking ND. I am stating the facts. When they start winning than we can take your opinion to heart. I have been a long time ND fan over 25 years and I have seen it all. A win is a win and the bottom line we lost to teams we should have beat but cant because of some unknown reason. The bottom line Brian K is doing a great job, but with our lack of talent and our scheduling we are a 7 or 8 win team. Maybe every once in a blue moon we might get to 9 or 10 wins but as it stands ND will never make it to a NC at this rate. Its the truth like it or not ! CFB has become bigger than ever and there are just much better teams out there now a days. I agree 100 percent with Colin ND is not setup to compete with the likes of USC, Michigan, Texas, Oklahoma, and much of the SEC. They cant get enough talent to compete. Michigan landed an excellent class last year, and this year its off the charts. USC is now coming back into the picture and they will dominate recruiting from here on out. In addition now we have to contend with Ohio State which is going to be a killer for us. Notre Dame cant even land kids anymore in their own backyard. Look at the the local running back who committed to USC. I think Jaylon will end up at USC or Ohio State. We might get rochell but again we just don't get enough of the play makers. And for some reason ND cant recruit top DB's. I have no idea why but we just cant get the players.

#1) Your first mistake was coming on here and using Colin Cowherd as your guide to 'facts'. I like Cowherd's show, but the dude admits he's only out for ratings, and he's wrong ALL THE TIME and he flip-flops ALL THE TIME (i.e. he used to LOVE Charlie Weis and say how NFL coaches are too smart for other college coaches...then he turned on CW and started the whole anti-ND crusade.) If Cowherd is your guide, then you have more problems than we'll ever know. His latest gaff regarding ND was saying how ND was starting 4 freshmen in the secondary. Seriously Cowherd?

#2) Your 2nd mistake was using 'we' while trolling. Do what you want, but don't do that. It's embarrassing. Own your troll-ness.

#3) Your 3rd mistake was saying the word 'facts', when you had none in your post. You're saying ND is not set-up to recruit well, which is total bullshit. You realize we had the #1 class in 2006, and a top 5 class a couple of years later? Yes, over schools like your beloved Longhorns, USC, Michigan, all the SEC, etc etc. We're in the top 10 pretty much every year, but we can't recruit??? 2 players in the 1st round this year (which is more than your beloved Longhorns and ALL the FL schools combined) and most likely 2 more next year, and we can't recruit??? The problem isn't recruiting, it's been recruiting the right kind of players, and then coaching them up. In essence, it's been the coaching. Ty set us up to fail miserably in 2007 and 2008. CW got the players but didn't develop them, and basically, too many players were soft. I think BK has recruited MUCH tougher players mentally and physically, but it takes a while to get rid of the stench of losing, and the QB play has been atrocious. But dude, take that stupid Cowherd bullshit theory somewhere where people are stupid enough to buy that crap. There's a reason he cuts off callers that disagree with him - he doesn't like to be exposed.

#5) Of course you think Jaylon will be a trogan or a Tatoo 5 member - that's what trolls do, they talk out their ***.

Don't be a fence-sitter. Stop being a wuss and announce your trollness to the world. Because the cover-up is always worse than the crime...

 

[felkey72]

I've actually heard that North Carolina State is who they'd ask. NCSU is apparently a massive research school. Strange...

Yes but every Big 10 school is a member (Nebraska=former member) you would think they would continue with that. The only school they have ever offered membership to that wasn't a AAU member is Noter Dame, i believe when they invited Nebraska they were a member they just lost membership recently. The most sense would be North Carolina to be in the South, Mizzo if they can pry away from the SEC, and Rutgers, they love the idea of being in the New York market. This is of course is if Notre Dame doesnt want to join. I think if they can not get Mizzo they go after Maryland.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Another interesting piece from @<a href="https://twitter.com/ChipBrownOB">ChipBrownOB</a> having to do with <a href="https://twitter.com/search/%2523Notre">#Notre</a> Dame and the Big 12.Smoke.Fire? <a href="http://t.co/9sxzkB1k" title="http://sbn.to/K8pN1R">sbn.to/K8pN1R</a></p>— One Foot Down (@OneFootDown) <a href="https://twitter.com/OneFootDown/status/205023910712979456" data-datetime="2012-05-22T19:54:44+00:00">May 22, 2012</a></blockquote>
<script src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I haven't read a lot about the realignment recently as I have just been relying on your input Whiskey, so let me ask a question. If we are the "half" in the Big 12 would we then potentially have a tie in to their agreement with the SEC even while still being independent? If that is the case and they allow us to join all sports except football until we are ready to give it up it is really a no brainer. As an example of a scenario I am talking about, say Texas wins the Big 12 and is in the "Final 4" and ND has a better record than say the Big 12 runner up Oklahoma, we could then take the Big 12's spot in the Sugar Bowl against the SEC team.

 

[phork]

^^That will never, ever happen.

If the university wants to the easiest path to ten wins, then they'd join the ACC.
veryone knows it'd be Connecticut and Notre Dame. But if Notre Dame/Navy were to join the ACC, you'd have a schedule like this:

This is the issue, if you believe any of the reports, the ACC is now on life support. the BigXII and the SEC will poach what they want, and leave the carcass for whoever wants whats left.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I haven't read a lot about the realignment recently as I have just been relying on your input Whiskey, so let me ask a question. If we are the "half" in the Big 12 would we then potentially have a tie in to their agreement with the SEC even while still being independent?

I haven't seen this directly addressed anywhere, but I doubt it. The Champions Bowl is first and foremost about the conferences. For example, if ND somehow moved all its Olympic sports to the B1G, there's no way Delany would ever let ND take the B1G runner-up's spot in the Rose Bowl.

If that is the case and they allow us to join all sports except football until we are ready to give it up it is really a no brainer.

Absolutely. We'll likely move our Olympic sports into the Big-12 first (and relatively soon), thereby reserving our spot in a superconference, which will allow us to enjoy independence for as long as possible. As soon as independence starts to seriously harm our post-season prospects, we'll jump in as a full member.

As an example of a scenario I am talking about, say Texas wins the Big 12 and is in the "Final 4" and ND has a better record than say the Big 12 runner up Oklahoma, we could then take the Big 12's spot in the Sugar Bowl against the SEC team.

See above. I think the Big-12 would use that as leverage to get us to join as full members. They're not going to give us all the benefits without bringing in football.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

#1) Your first mistake was coming on here and using Colin Cowherd as your guide to 'facts'. I like Cowherd's show, but the dude admits he's only out for ratings, and he's wrong ALL THE TIME and he flip-flops ALL THE TIME (i.e. he used to LOVE Charlie Weis and say how NFL coaches are too smart for other college coaches...then he turned on CW and started the whole anti-ND crusade.) If Cowherd is your guide, then you have more problems than we'll ever know. His latest gaff regarding ND was saying how ND was starting 4 freshmen in the secondary. Seriously Cowherd?

I could care less about the guy but what he says is dead on and you cant sit there and argue against it when ND has not done anything in 20 years. Come on dude wake up and smell the coffee. USC has dominated our rivalry, we still cant beat Denard Robinson, what part don't you agree with ? I agree with him that Brain K is a god coach and that he has done great with the Irish, but a 7 or 8 wins this year is exceptionable for the Irish.

#2) Your 2nd mistake was using 'we' while trolling. Do what you want, but don't do that. It's embarrassing. Own your troll-ness.

Is that how Clueless ND fans try and get out of the facts by calling the other a troll. PLEASE dude get a life. Everything I am saying is true. If you want to go on with the blinders on and think every year is going to be a NC year have at it.

#3) Your 3rd mistake was saying the word 'facts', when you had none in your post. You're saying ND is not set-up to recruit well, which is total bullshit. You realize we had the #1 class in 2006, and a top 5 class a couple of years later? Yes, over schools like your beloved Longhorns, USC, Michigan, all the SEC, etc etc. We're in the top 10 pretty much every year, but we can't recruit??? 2 players in the 1st round this year (which is more than your beloved Longhorns and ALL the FL schools combined) and most likely 2 more next year, and we can't recruit??? The problem isn't recruiting, it's been recruiting the right kind of players, and then coaching them up. In essence, it's been the coaching. Ty set us up to fail miserably in 2007 and 2008. CW got the players but didn't develop them, and basically, too many players were soft. I think BK has recruited MUCH tougher players mentally and physically, but it takes a while to get rid of the stench of losing, and the QB play has been atrocious. But dude, take that stupid Cowherd bullshit theory somewhere where people are stupid enough to buy that crap. There's a reason he cuts off callers that disagree with him - he doesn't like to be exposed.

Blah Blah Blah Notre Dame failed big time last year with Tee and Dingleberry. And now it looks like we are going to have to start worrying about players bolting from the school like Lynch did. This has never happen in the old days of ND. One player that comes to mind that could be a lynch is Neal. The kid is very sketchy so it will be interesting to see what happens. FYI I never said ND cant recruit, I said they cant Recruit enough kids to compete against top teams, such as Bama, Texas, Oklahoma, USC. They can get their share of kids but right now ND needs to be pulling top 8 classes and they aren't.

#5) Of course you think Jaylon will be a trogan or a Tatoo 5 member - that's what trolls do, they talk out their ***.

No I think it will be hard to turn down Two teams, USC and Ohio State who are going to win a minimum of 9 games this year. When you win you get the recruits when you go 8-5 and 7-5 you end up ranked 18th in the country for recruiting.

Don't be a fence-sitter. Stop being a wuss and announce your trollness to the world. Because the cover-up is always worse than the crime...


Please stop this nonsense about trolling. I am making valid arguments about the Irish. Until they can win I guess in your eyes everyone is a troll.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

This is the issue, if you believe any of the reports, the ACC is now on life support. the BigXII and the SEC will poach what they want, and leave the carcass for whoever wants whats left.

Not only that the ACC makes Notre Dame an east coast team. The big 12 will put ND in a new light. They can hold on to their Independence schedule 4 Big 12 Teams keep USC Michigan etc. They will become the true American CFB Team. Playing from the east coast to the west coast. The BIG 12 is the only option. If they join the ACC without Florida State and Clemson they will crash and burn. Plus the ACC will not let ND keep their Independence. The Big 12 is setup to take the Big Interdependent Notre Dame and they will get nationwide exposure like they have never seen in the past.

However you have to keep in eye on Texas because I do think there is a reason so many members left the big 12. If ND joins they have to be connected big time with the Big 12 commissioners.

 

[felkey72]

Not only that the ACC makes Notre Dame an east coast team. The big 12 will put ND in a new light. They can hold on to their Independence schedule 4 Big 12 Teams keep USC Michigan etc. They will become the true American CFB Team. Playing from the east coast to the west coast. The BIG 12 is the only option. If they join the ACC without Florida State and Clemson they will crash and burn. Plus the ACC will not let ND keep their Independence. The Big 12 is setup to take the Big Interdependent Notre Dame and they will get nationwide exposure like they have never seen in the past.

Big 12 all in !

Can we just ban this fool. Sick of his arrogance stating everything as fact. If you hate ND so bad why did you come here.

 

[TerryTate]

Not only that the ACC makes Notre Dame an east coast team. The big 12 will put ND in a new light. They can hold on to their Independence schedule 4 Big 12 Teams keep USC Michigan etc. They will become the true American CFB Team. Playing from the east coast to the west coast. The BIG 12 is the only option. If they join the ACC without Florida State and Clemson they will crash and burn. Plus the ACC will not let ND keep their Independence. The Big 12 is setup to take the Big Interdependent Notre Dame and they will get nationwide exposure like they have never seen in the past.

However you have to keep in eye on Texas because I do think there is a reason so many members left the big 12. If ND joins they have to be connected big time with the Big 12 commissioners.

NBC > Longhorn Network

Interdependent? Nice.

 

[ACamp1900]

NBC > Longhorn Network

Interdependent? Nice.

I cherish my Interdependency

 

[beryirish]

NBC > Longhorn Network

Interdependent? Nice.

Throwing it out there because I have no idea about legalities and stuff of that sort.

If ND goes to Big IIX --- one big discussion about independence is the TV contract..in this case with NBC. Could ND/NBC/BigIIX come to an agreement that NBC will broadcast all of NDs home games. When ND is on the road or have a primetime game they are typically on ABC or ESPN. When that happens could NBC air a premier BigIIX members home game? It will add more exposure to the BigIIX

Or does the BigIIX have a contract in place with another network.

Just looking at a different scenario.

 

[TexasNDBig12]

Throwing it out there because I have no idea about legalities and stuff of that sort.

If ND goes to Big IIX --- one big discussion about independence is the TV contract..in this case with NBC. Could ND/NBC/BigIIX come to an agreement that NBC will broadcast all of NDs home games. When ND is on the road or have a primetime game they are typically on ABC or ESPN. When that happens could NBC air a premier BigIIX members home game? It will add more exposure to the BigIIX

Or does the BigIIX have a contract in place with another network.

Just looking at a different scenario.

Why doesn't Notre Dame strike a deal with ESPN and do an Irish network like Texas. The Texas contract is worth more per year than the ND NBC contract. NBC ESPN it doesn't matter these days everyone has both channels.

 

[Grahambo]

Throwing it out there because I have no idea about legalities and stuff of that sort.

If ND goes to Big IIX --- one big discussion about independence is the TV contract..in this case with NBC. Could ND/NBC/BigIIX come to an agreement that NBC will broadcast all of NDs home games. When ND is on the road or have a primetime game they are typically on ABC or ESPN. When that happens could NBC air a premier BigIIX members home game? It will add more exposure to the BigIIX

Or does the BigIIX have a contract in place with another network.

Just looking at a different scenario.

I don't think the Big 12 has a TV deal. The Longhorn Network is operated by ESPN though. If ND joins the Big 12, would NBC then become the de facto Big 12 network? Agreeing to keep ND on NBC and an additional game on the NBC Network? IDK

 

[Rhode Irish]

If the university wants to the easiest path to ten wins, then they'd join the ACC.

I find it very difficult to believe that we would voluntarily board a ship that is known to be sinking. That league, if it still exists in a few years, will be a complete also-ran. The college football equivalent of AAA baseball.

We are far better off being in one of the premier leagues that will own college football. The B1G is clearly the worst, most boring league of those four. It does not generate any interest outside of the midwest. You can't be scared to play Texas, Oklahoma and FSU/Miami, either, because all of the schedules in the new, consolidated college football are going to look like that. In the Pac-X, you're schedule could have Oregon, Stanford and USC; in the B1G you'd have Michigan, tOSU and Wisconsin/Penn State; in the SEC you'd get Bama, LSU and Florida. In any given year, the path in any of those leagues (except probably the B1G) could be the hardest in football. The conferences will also all be divided into divisions which will not put all of the superpowers together.

From the regional, competitive, cultural and prestige standpoints, I heavily favor the Big XII if we will eventually have to give up our independence.

 

[clashmore_mike]

I don't think the Big 12 has a TV deal. The Longhorn Network is operated by ESPN though. If ND joins the Big 12, would NBC then become the de facto Big 12 network? Agreeing to keep ND on NBC and an additional game on the NBC Network? IDK

Big XII has contracts with ESPN and Fox right now, I think they either reupped with ESPN or are in the negotiation process of extending through like 2025 or something.

 

[clashmore_mike]

Why doesn't Notre Dame strike a deal with ESPN and do an Irish network like Texas. The Texas contract is worth more per year than the ND NBC contract. NBC ESPN it doesn't matter these days everyone has both channels.

If you were as big of a Notre Dame fan as you claim (25 years!!!), you'd know the answer to your question.

 

[Grahambo]

Big XII has contracts with ESPN and Fox right now, I think they either reupped with ESPN or are in the negotiation process of extending through like 2025 or something.

I would imagine the Big XII would allow ND to keep their NBC contract.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I would imagine the Big XII would allow ND to keep their NBC contract.

Bingo. The Longhorn Network has established Big 12 precedent for flexibility regarding TV contracts. That's among the most important reasons why ND will be joining the Big 12 and not the B1G.

 

[NDinL.A.]

TexasNDBig12

I could care less about the guy but what he says is dead on and you cant sit there and argue against it when ND has not done anything in 20 years. Come on dude wake up and smell the coffee. USC has dominated our rivalry, we still cant beat Denard Robinson, what part don't you agree with ? I agree with him that Brain K is a god coach and that he has done great with the Irish, but a 7 or 8 wins this year is exceptionable for the Irish.

Yes, you can sit here and argue against it, if you have a brain. See, Cowherd's big argument has always been that you can't recruit to the Midwest b/c of the weather, that no one wants to live there and every kid wants to live on the west coast or in SEC country. Of course, you countered the very argument he was trying to make by stating how great Michigan and OSU are recruiting (oh, and hey Einstein...ND is doing excellent in recruiting this year).

YOUR argument is that we can't recruit enough guys, and that's b.s. You can sit here screaming at us until you're blue in the face, but we have recruited plenty of guys. The issue has been development and coaching. That's why we haven't done much in 20 years.

Is that how Clueless ND fans try and get out of the facts by calling the other a troll. PLEASE dude get a life. Everything I am saying is true. If you want to go on with the blinders on and think every year is going to be a NC year have at it.

Actually, I gave you facts, and you ignored them because they didn't fit your horrible argument.

Blah Blah Blah Notre Dame failed big time last year with Tee and Dingleberry. And now it looks like we are going to have to start worrying about players bolting from the school like Lynch did. This has never happen in the old days of ND. One player that comes to mind that could be a lynch is Neal. The kid is very sketchy so it will be interesting to see what happens. FYI I never said ND cant recruit, I said they cant Recruit enough kids to compete against top teams, such as Bama, Texas, Oklahoma, USC. They can get their share of kids but right now ND needs to be pulling top 8 classes and they aren't.

LOL - blah blah blah is synonymous with "You got me there". ND did fail last year with those guys. But you saying that transfers never happened before shows what a troll you are. Do a little research pal, then get back to me. And anyway, transfers and decomittments happen at a way higher rate across the board nowadays. Our roster and other teams' rosters (USC, Bama, OSU, etc etc) are littered w/ transfers and decomittments. Welcome to college football.

And troll, what players are wavering? Stop making sh!t up, cause you're about to post your last thoughts on this site, coming with that bulllshit. Names and reasons or STFU. And we will probably have a decommitment, just like every other school out there. It happens nowadays.

No I think it will be hard to turn down Two teams, USC and Ohio State who are going to win a minimum of 9 games this year. When you win you get the recruits when you go 8-5 and 7-5 you end up ranked 18th in the country for recruiting.

You're clueless when it comes to recruiting, among many, many other things.

Please stop this nonsense about trolling. I am making valid arguments about the Irish. Until they can win I guess in your eyes everyone is a troll.

Make a valid argument, and you won't be considered a troll. But I smelled you out from the jump. You'll hang yourself soon enough.

(And opposing opinions have been discussed a lot here. People argue with me all the time, and with me, it's all good. But it ain't all good with trolls.)

 

[beryirish]

Having a fierce argument going on here...get'em LA

 

[TexasNDBig12]

Yes, you can sit here and argue against it, if you have a brain. See, Cowherd's big argument has always been that you can't recruit to the Midwest b/c of the weather, that no one wants to live there and every kid wants to live

That rant was getting long and out of control. Coaching up the players is not the only problem ND faces. In order to stay on top and compete you have to have the players. We do not have the players and I believe that Collin is correct in saying the sell to ND is much harder these days. You have many warm weather academic schools that are in the mix such as Texas, Stanford that are huge threats to Notre Dame recruiting. Stanford recruited lights out last year and so did Texas, Notre Dame fell way short. Collin was correct in saying that we do not match up anymore against the big recruiting teams such as Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Bama etc. This is a fact go back in look at the last ten years of recruiting. You will find a correlation between the teams that recruit lights out and winning a NC. And I am not talking about one year in 2008 I am talking about year after year. Building a team with all 4 and 5 star players. This is what it takes today to win and win big. I have always said that Brian K needs to recruit in the top ten for the next 3 years for us to get back to winning 9 games. Thus far my theory has been correct. If Brian K drops the ball this year on recruiting we wont see a BCS game for another 2 to 3 years. To perform at the high level you need both coaching and talent. We saw this with Brian K cinci team. He was a good Big east team but once he was up against Florida and Oklahoma he was flat out outmatched. Notre Dame at this point is no better or worse than ACC or Big East Teams but don't fool yourslef we are nowhere near the Big 12, PAC 12, or Big Ten level. I wont even mention the SEC as we cant even think about that until we can beat Michigan, USC, and Stanford two or three years in a row.

 

[NDinFL]

Dude, just stop...

 

[NDinL.A.]

That rant was getting long and out of control. Coaching up the players is not the only problem ND faces. In order to stay on top and compete you have to have the players. We do not have the players and I believe that Collin is correct in saying the sell to ND is much harder these days. You have many warm weather academic schools that are in the mix such as Texas, Stanford that are huge threats to Notre Dame recruiting. Stanford recruited lights out last year and so did Texas, Notre Dame fell way short. Collin was correct in saying that we do not match up anymore against the big recruiting teams such as Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, USC, Bama etc. This is a fact go back in look at the last ten years of recruiting. You will find a correlation between the teams that recruit lights out and winning a NC. And I am not talking about one year in 2008 I am talking about year after year. Building a team with all 4 and 5 star players. This is what it takes today to win and win big. I have always said that Brian K needs to recruit in the top ten for the next 3 years for us to get back to winning 9 games. Thus far my theory has been correct. If Brian K drops the ball this year on recruiting we wont see a BCS game for another 2 to 3 years. To perform at the high level you need both coaching and talent. We saw this with Brian K cinci team. He was a good Big east team but once he was up against Florida and Oklahoma he was flat out outmatched. Notre Dame at this point is no better or worse than ACC or Big East Teams but don't fool yourslef we are nowhere near the Big 12, PAC 12, or Big Ten level. I wont even mention the SEC as we cant even think about that until we can beat Michigan, USC, and Stanford two or three years in a row.

Obvious guy says, no sh!t sherlock. You think I need some troll to tell me that? That's not even what you started arguing in the first place. Stick to the argument, and if it gets too long/confusing for you, ask someone for help.

What a complete effing waste of time.

 

[clashmore_mike]

How are osu and Michigan warm weather academic schools that recruit well but ND isn't? Someone get our longhorn fan a map.

 

[beryirish]

 

[beryirish]

.

 

[Irish#1]

How are osu and Michigan warm weather academic schools that recruit well but ND isn't? Someone get our longhorn fan a map.

Agreed.....Cowherd has tried to use the climate argument for years, but he misses something important. How is it the B1G and other midwest schools recruit well in basketball? Kelly has been doing a good job of recruiting and it appears he's getting better by the year.

Longhorn also needs to keeo in mind it's all cyclical. It wasn't that long ago Bama was an afterthought and the Vols the top dogs in the SEC. SC wasn't doing well until Pete the Cheat showed up.

 

[DSully1995]

Agreed.....Cowherd has tried to use the climate argument for years, but he misses something important. How is it the B1G and other midwest schools recruit well in basketball? Kelly has been doing a good job of recruiting and it appears he's getting better by the year.

Longhorn also needs to keeo in mind it's all cyclical. It wasn't that long ago Bama was an afterthought and the Vols the top dogs in the SEC. SC wasn't doing well until Pete the Cheat showed up.

Thats the thing when the only thing you have for you is winning, ND isnt irrelevant as we should be after all these years, we maintain good recruiting classes because of our academic excellence.

 

[condoms SUCk]

Honestly if ND doesn't get it together soon they will be only as good as the MAC conference teams.

<a href="http://www.gifbin.com/986714"><img src="http://gifs.gifbin.com/052012/1337705364_soccer_double_headshot.gif" alt="funny gifs" /></a>

 

[Irish#1]

Thats the thing when the only thing you have for you is winning, ND isnt irrelevant as we should be after all these years, we maintain good recruiting classes because of our academic excellence.

I would disagree about being relevant. Granted we haven't been in the top ten and battling for a NC or BCS bowl like we want to be, but if ND wasn't relevant, they wouldn't have the NBC contract and every away game wouldn't be broadcast by another major network. If the Irish weren't relevant they wouldn't sell out road games like they do. ND haters don't like to admit it, but the Irish have been relevant for decades and continue to be today.