Spring Practice Thread 2012

[greyhammer90]

I hate to use extremes like "never" but, as others have said, if Golson and Hendrix can't unseat Tommy by now, they will never start. I'm not angry at Tommy or Kelly about this though. Why should I be? If Tommy is the best that means that he has worked his *** off and is now our best option. If this is the case, then thank god for Tommy because otherwise we'd be even worse off without him.

 

[Cali_domer]

Well ****...

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

in the end it's going to be the guy that takes care of the football the best

Exactly.

 

[NDdomer2]

at this point i think the only thing that TR can improve on is his decision making and ball security...imo he's tapped his potential physically

Would you agree that Tommy's decision making and ball security were what lost us some games last year not his physical potential? If he erases the redzone turnovers we are a ten win-BCS football team. I will take that every year regardless of how fast a kid can run.

 

[FLDomer]

If Tommy learns to not stare down his WR and learns to see the field I am fine with him. I think with him learning not to do this, his TO's are cut way down.

 

[BestBIrish47]

Even if he limits his mistakes from a year ago, he will still be limited physically. His physical limitations were extremely apparent against well coached athletic defenses. If Tommy is limited, our offense will be limited.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Would you agree that Tommy's decision making and ball security were what lost us some games last year not his physical potential? If he erases the redzone turnovers we are a ten win-BCS football team. I will take that every year regardless of how fast a kid can run.

i would agree yes, but when you have the physical ability to make something out of nothing, then your ability to run the offense, such as moving the chains and taking care of the ball, improves drastically.

let's face it TR doesn't have the physical ability to make something out of nothing, which probably presents itself 5-10 times a game.

 

[WaveDomer]

I am forever (almost) the optimist. The way I look at this is that Rees has come to play. He knows that there are 3 other QBs with more physical ability waiting to take his spot. He has shown up working, telling them they will have to beat him and rip the starting job from his hands. This is a good thing. I still don't see him starting. It's a long time until Navy in Dublin and the QB under center in that game will be tested and ready. We should consider ourselves lucky to have a kid like Rees who is busting his behind and forcing the others to put in work to take the job.

 

[greyhammer90]

Would you agree that Tommy's decision making and ball security were what lost us some games last year not his physical potential? If he erases the redzone turnovers we are a ten win-BCS football team. I will take that every year regardless of how fast a kid can run.

I think this view is a little too simplistic. First of all, Tommy's inability to run would be fine if he had a cannon arm. But he doesn't. The reason why our offense was stalling worse than normal at the end of the season was due to defenses figuring out what Tommy could (or more importantly couldn't) do. Since he's no threat to run and can't throw it deep (without it being a rainbow that a child could pick off) what did they do? They loaded up on short zone (with a safety helping out with Michael because a rainbow pass actually worked with that freak of nature) and sent 3 D linemen at him consistently. This is why boston college made our offense look silly last year. That's what they did all game long. Secondly, this defense and Tommy's inability to exploit it is the reason why he threw a lot of those turnovers. He can't throw over them and he can't make them pay with his feet, so he's forced to throw into seven men all playing pass coverage. With these disadvantages Tommy needs to do more than make good reads, he needs to be a d*mn prophet.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I am forever (almost) the optimist. The way I look at this is that Rees has come to play. He knows that there are 3 other QBs with more physical ability waiting to take his spot. He has shown up working, telling them they will have to beat him and rip the starting job from his hands. This is a good thing. I still don't see him starting. It's a long time until Navy in Dublin and the QB under center in that game will be tested and ready. We should consider ourselves lucky to have a kid like Rees who is busting his behind and forcing the others to put in work to take the job.

i will not disagree with this...good point

 

[IrishInFl]

It's just spring ball, folks. Wait until fall camp to start panicking.

 

[Cackalacky]

I think this view is a little too simplistic. First of all, Tommy's inability to run would be fine if he had a cannon arm. But he doesn't. The reason why our offense was stalling worse than normal at the end of the season was due to defenses figuring out what Tommy could (or more importantly couldn't) do. Since he's no threat to run and can't throw it deep (without it being a rainbow that a child could pick off) what did they do? They loaded up on short zone (with a safety helping out with Michael because a rainbow pass actually worked with that freak of nature) and sent 3 D linemen at him consistently. This is why boston college made our offense look silly last year. That's what they did all game long. Secondly, this defense and Tommy's inability to exploit it is the reason why he threw a lot of those turnovers. He can't throw over them and he can't make them pay with his feet, so he's forced to throw into seven men all playing pass coverage. With these disadvantages Tommy needs to do more than make good reads, he needs to be a d*mn prophet.

The flip side to this is that our offensive scheme should have been adjusted to counteract. That was not always the case for any number of reasons. I dont think our offensive schemes were adjusted adequately during the season. That is not on Tommy, but coaching

 

[jonesman]

Well Stated Grey. Regardless if Tommy limits the turnovers, he will still struggle against teams that play us like BC. They dared him to run while they covered every passing lane from the line of scrimmage to 20 yards. Teams know he cannot go vertical and will NOT run, so it makes it very simple to defend. This will be especially true if you have dynamic pass rushers.

 

[ND55]

The bottom line to me is that Tommy got WORSE as the year went on last year. I was at the Stanford game and he looked scared. I saw him go down before he was EVEN HIT. A big part of it was that teams learned how to defend him and the book on that is out now so there is no way he can be successful. Worst case is he starts the first 2 easy games and wins. Then he faces some good defenses and the wheels come off faster than last year and the backup won't have the benefit of having started the 2 easy games. Still not panicking though as it's only spring ball.

 

[NDdomer2]

Greyhammer...don't you think that it got worse after we lost Jonas? To me the counter punch is running the ball down someones throat.

R2G....don't get me wrong I would love to see our qb have the ability to create something out of nothing. But, if that means we are losing out on something else you have to weigh the positives with the negatives. For instance is having Golson or Hendrix scramble 5 times a game for positive yards worth not having Tommy Rees check us into the right play 5 times a game because of his ability to pre-read the D. (hypothetical scenarios)

I am not stating I am 100% for or against any of the candidates. I am just saying we were pretty close to a 10 win team and SHOULD have been a 10 win team this past season with stone feet Rees. Our defense should be improved and our offense scheme will be chagned. Combine those in with a "better decision making/ball caring" TR and we could be in BCS. Not saying we couldnt with the other guys either.

I just don't think those saying the world is going to end if it is Tommy are thinking with logic just emotion.

Rant over.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Even if he limits his mistakes from a year ago, he will still be limited physically. His physical limitations were extremely apparent against well coached athletic defenses. If Tommy is limited, our offense will be limited.

Good point and I will even expand on that.

We think of TOTR's atheltic ability being limited, but IMO, his arm strength is the bigger limitation than speed. Tommy simply doesn't have the arm strength to throw a 20 yard dart to bust a zone. This takes away so much of what this offense could be. Teams can simply flood the short zones and dare him to beat them deep. He can't. The only times TOTR would go deep is if it was single coverage on Floyd or if he misread the D. The reason for this is that his lack of arm strength wouldn't matter in a jump ball situation.

Simply put, if you are a slow QB, you better have a rocket for an arm, like Ryan Mallet. If you don't, you are really limiting the offense.

FWIW, I still think Hendrix starts in the end.

 

[IrishLax]

Im sure tommy looks great with a red jersey on and no pass rush. We all saw what happens to him after he takes a hit. And it's not pretty.

 

[Zwidmanio]

Greyhammer...don't you think that it got worse after we lost Jonas? To me the counter punch is running the ball down someones throat.

R2G....don't get me wrong I would love to see our qb have the ability to create something out of nothing. But, if that means we are losing out on something else you have to weigh the positives with the negatives. For instance is having Golson or Hendrix scramble 5 times a game for positive yards worth not having Tommy Rees check us into the right play 5 times a game because of his ability to pre-read the D. (hypothetical scenarios)

I am not stating I am 100% for or against any of the candidates. I am just saying we were pretty close to a 10 win team and SHOULD have been a 10 win team this past season with stone feet Rees. Our defense should be improved and our offense scheme will be chagned. Combine those in with a "better decision making/ball caring" TR and we could be in BCS. Not saying we couldnt with the other guys either.

I just don't think those saying the world is going to end if it is Tommy are thinking with logic just emotion.

Rant over.

I've tried to remain agnostic in the QB debate, but the limitations that Rees places on the offense are too much to ignore, which is why I lean towards hoping somebody else can win the position. I do believe that we could have a good to very good season with him as our starter (no, the world won't end despite the histrionics of some). However, his physical limitations hold back the offense in ways that seem pretty fundamental to the offense that Kelly wants to run, namely the threat of the QB run and the vertical passing game.

Yes, we lost production after Jonas went down last year, but he isn't coming back and I, for one, am not sure if Riddick can fill those shoes yet. The other problem, as I alluded to above, is that with Tommy's limitations opposing defenses don't have to be too concerned with him keeping the ball or throwing it over their heads. The running options are more limited and the defense can keep more men closer to the line without too much fear of having the ball get thrown over their heads.

Lastly, while it's great that Rees is smart enough to handle checks at the line, near the end of the year it seemed that teams had figured him out and were showing him looks to bait him into a check and then backing out of it at the last minute.

I admire your rational approach and optimism. I don't think our views differ too much either. I'm just a bit more pessimistic on Rees. I just fear that if he's named starter our offense's ceiling would go from potentially explosive to potentially good.

 

[Irish4Life09]

I'm no turncoat...but I don't think my delicate psyche can handle another failing year like last year...I don't need an aneurism at my age. If Turnover Tommy is the starter,which in all accounts it looks like he will be, then I have lost all confidence in not only Kelly, but Notre Dame as well.
I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[NDBoiler]

I've tried to remain agnostic in the QB debate, but the limitations that Rees places on the offense are too much to ignore, which is why I lean towards hoping somebody else can win the position. I do believe that we could have a good to very good season with him as our starter (no, the world won't end despite the histrionics of some). However, his physical limitations hold back the offense in ways that seem pretty fundamental to the offense that Kelly wants to run, namely the threat of the QB run and the vertical passing game.

Yes, we lost production after Jonas went down last year, but he isn't coming back and I, for one, am not sure if Riddick can fill those shoes yet. The other problem, as I alluded to above, is that with Tommy's limitations opposing defenses don't have to be too concerned with him keeping the ball or throwing it over their heads. The running options are more limited and the defense can keep more men closer to the line without too much fear of having the ball get thrown over their heads.

Lastly, while it's great that Rees is smart enough to handle checks at the line, near the end of the year it seemed that teams had figured him out and were showing him looks to bait him into a check and then backing out of it at the last minute.

I admire your rational approach and optimism. I don't think our views differ too much either. I'm just a bit more pessimistic on Rees. I just fear that if he's named starter our offense's ceiling would go from potentially explosive to potentially good.

I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement. Essentially, the more TR has developed a body of work for opposing teams to scout from, his effectiveness has appeared to correspondingly decrease due to his physical limitations. I believe this is sometimes referred to in the sportiing world as a "plateau". We as fans just need to hope for someone else with the greater physical skills to step up!

 

[FLDomer]

Remember it is only spring ball!

 

[50milesSE ND]

Remember it is only spring ball!

this^ and lets hope so

 

[rtrn2glory]

pretty mum on the practice updates today?

 

[Ndaccountant]

I've tried to remain agnostic in the QB debate, but the limitations that Rees places on the offense are too much to ignore, which is why I lean towards hoping somebody else can win the position. I do believe that we could have a good to very good season with him as our starter (no, the world won't end despite the histrionics of some). However, his physical limitations hold back the offense in ways that seem pretty fundamental to the offense that Kelly wants to run, namely the threat of the QB run and the vertical passing game.

Yes, we lost production after Jonas went down last year, but he isn't coming back and I, for one, am not sure if Riddick can fill those shoes yet. The other problem, as I alluded to above, is that with Tommy's limitations opposing defenses don't have to be too concerned with him keeping the ball or throwing it over their heads. The running options are more limited and the defense can keep more men closer to the line without too much fear of having the ball get thrown over their heads.

Lastly, while it's great that Rees is smart enough to handle checks at the line, near the end of the year it seemed that teams had figured him out and were showing him looks to bait him into a check and then backing out of it at the last minute.

I admire your rational approach and optimism. I don't think our views differ too much either. I'm just a bit more pessimistic on Rees. I just fear that if he's named starter our offense's ceiling would go from potentially explosive to potentially good.

Important to note that it would be a combo of Theo, Amir, Mahone and GAIII looking to fill in those shoes. To me, none of them offer the same skill set. For those guys to be at their best, imo, they need to be in open space. You can not line up and use these guys to run over teams. That is not utilizing their skill sets. If you are 4 wide, it spreads things out but if it is Tommy back there, the D can forget about the QB running and it minimizes the benefit of spreading the D out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Is our favorite defensive end back and in the thick of things?

 

[koonja]

If Rees starts this is Clashmore's dog:

 

[ryno 24]

Is our favorite defensive end back and in the thick of things?

yes he was at practice this morning

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

I have no doubt in my mind the coaches will make the right decision. We as fans have little invested in the choice (except our sanity right?) so its easy to say "Tommy has hit his ceiling!" or "just let Golson scramble around and make plays!". The coaches are involved in this thing 24/7, teaching, observing, watching tape, evaluating body language and leadership skills. Their jobs are on the line, they will get it right.. they have to.

 

[condoms SUCk]

I have no doubt in my mind the coaches will make the right decision. We as fans have little invested in the choice (except our sanity right?) so its easy to say "Tommy has hit his ceiling!" or "just let Golson scramble around and make plays!". The coaches are involved in this thing 24/7, teaching, observing, watching tape, evaluating body language and leadership skills. Their jobs are on the line, they will get it right.. they have to.

^^^^^ THIS, take a chill pill, things will work out in the end....I hope!

 

[NDdomer2]

Lynch returns to campus, other notes | Inside the Irish

Over the weekend, veteran scribe Lou Somogyi had a great answer when asked if he could remember a more maligned returning QB than rising junior Tommy Rees. His response was one that should raise more than an eyebrow or two of Irish fans, and serves as a wonderful reminder that college careers aren’t defined after two seasons. If they were, most people would have long forgotten about national champion Tony Rice.

Rice was one of the most maligned, doubted QBs I ever saw after that first varsity season of his. Tons of people saw him strictly as a one-dimensional athlete who was “not the answer” to take Notre Dame to the Promised Land as a quarterback.

Put him at running back, move him to receiver, have him return punts or kickoffs … but please, do not use him at QB. You can absolutely not beat great teams, like Miami or Michigan or USC, with an option QB. Miami especially proved that by the way it would stop Oklahoma option QBs such as Jamelle Holieway or Charles Thompson. (Of course, these same people didn’t note how Miami crushed drop-back passers even more.)

Somogyi went on to talk about the perfect prototype for the 1988 Irish offense: six-foot-five quarterback Kent Graham, who wowed Irish fans and reporters with his prodigious arm and high school reputation. At the time, the prevailing wisdom was — as Somogyi put it – ”YOU CANNOT WIN AGAINST TOP TEAMS LIKE MIAMI WITH A #%^&*$ OPTION QUARTERBACK! WHEN IS THAT IDIOT HOLTZ GOING TO RECOGNIZE RICE CAN’T GET IT DONE!!!”

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been told by readers or Irish fans that Notre Dame will never be able to win — especially against top competition — with a one-dimensional quarterback like Tommy Rees. Thanks to Lou for pointing out the wonderful parallels between that offseason and this one.

Now if only the similarities continue between the ensuing seasons…

Just thought I should post this as it pertains to the discussion.