Sobering Post New Years Bowl Report

[IrishSteelhead]

I did some looking at bowl performance from the advent of the BCS in 1998 to the present CFP/NY6 configuration. In that span, the following teams have won one (or more than one) of these bowl games:

Wisconsin
Ohio State
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Nebraska
Penn State
Tennessee
Florida
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Georgia
Texas A&M
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech
Miami
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas
West Virginia
Kansas
Washington
USC
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
Utah
Boise State
Louisville
UCF
Houston

Your challenge: name another program that does not have a win in one of these games, that is even MILDLY respected in college football?

This isn’t a trolling effort, it’s a post that everyone needs to remember when MF starts winning these games, and people keep bagging on him for one reason or another. He is going to do something that hasn’t happened in 30 years.


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[Sea Turtle]

It is sobering and embarrassing. It was why I was so livid about last years game against Okie State and Kyren opting out.

 

[ACamp1900]

I did this exact post like five or so years back,… it’s depressing.

 

[Blazers46]

I did some looking at bowl performance from the advent of the BCS in 1998 to the present CFP/NY6 configuration. In that span, the following teams have won one (or more than one) of these bowl games:

Wisconsin
Ohio State
Iowa
Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State
Nebraska
Penn State
Tennessee
Florida
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Georgia
Texas A&M
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech
Virginia Tech
Miami
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Iowa State
Baylor
TCU
Texas
West Virginia
Kansas
Washington
USC
Oregon
Oregon State
Stanford
Utah
Boise State
Louisville
UCF
Houston

Your challenge: name another program that does not have a win in one of these games, that is even MILDLY respected in college football?

This isn’t a trolling effort, it’s a post that everyone needs to remember when MF starts winning these games, and people keep bagging on him for one reason or another. He is going to do something that hasn’t happened in 30 years.


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Alphabetical order please

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Devils advocate….. after reading that list a few times what does it change if anything regarding how you view any of those programs. Some of those have only one win. What does one bowl win in 30 years or lack of, mean of the overall health and yearly performance of any team?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Devils advocate….. after reading that list a few times what does it change if anything regarding how you view any of those programs. Some of those have only one win. What does one bowl win in 30 years or lack of, mean of the overall health and yearly performance of any team?

I’d argue that of these, only the Boise State win really changed any perception of their program. If that was the point you were making.

 

[NDRock]

Schools with multiple playoff appearances:

Alabama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Georgia
Michigan
Notre Dame

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Devils advocate….. after reading that list a few times what does it change if anything regarding how you view any of those programs. Some of those have only one win. What does one bowl win in 30 years or lack of, mean of the overall health and yearly performance of any team?

Those one off wins are proof that everyone can have at the very least a “lightning in a bottle” year, except us apparently.


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[Cackalacky2.0]

I’d argue that of these, only the Boise State win really changed any perception of their program. If that was the point you were making.

And so not having one of those bowl wins does exactly what for ND who has had multiple playoff appearances.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Those one off wins are proof that everyone can have at the very least a “lightning in a bottle” year, except us apparently.


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What exactly does that lightning in a bottle game do for the status of the program over the last 30 years. How did that change your perception of that program?

 

[arrowryan]

It is sobering and embarrassing. It was why I was so livid about last years game against Okie State and Kyren opting out.

Yeah. Kyren’s decision looks more messed up after watching Bryce Young and Will Anderson play in their bowl game.

 

[NDohio]

Schools with multiple playoff appearances:

Alabama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma
Georgia
Michigan
Notre Dame

Yes, this matters so much more than the OP. I am of the generation that Bowl Games were super important in regards to judging the success of the season. We are way past that point now and it just doesn't matter. It's all playoffs now and a bowl victory is just eh.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

What exactly does that lightning in a bottle game do for the status of the program over the last 30 years. How did that change your perception of that program?

Their status changed from “program who has never won a major bowl game in the BCS/CFP/NY6 era” to “program who has won a major bowl game is the BCS/CFP/NY6 era.”


I’m being facetious. I get your point, but wouldn’t you at the very least admit it’s deeply troubling to be the only team that has never won one of these effing games?


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[Irishdrunk]

Irishsteelhead:

This isn't close to a chicken or an egg argument. The key part to your post:

"when MF starts winning these games..."

Great. I am glad he won in the Tax Slayer Bowl and he had a win against Clemson. But he and Tommy caused the 4-loss season on their own merit. If we had a decent QB Room with better scheming we are a 2-loss team in a NY6 Bowl. But alas we are not and it sucks!

I look forward to much tighter coaching that can get us to a NY6 bowl in the future. I get what your post is all about - its a BKPTSD leaving for LSU post....got it. Lets just focus on actually getting back to a NY6 bowl because we were going to those bowls somewhat regularly with purple face until he blew out of town for LSU.

 

[IrishLax]

I just don't think it matters. And it becomes completely immaterial in two years once we have real playoffs. It'll be about playoff appearances/playoff wins/championships.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I just don't think it matters. And it becomes completely immaterial in two years once we have real playoffs. It'll be about playoff appearances/playoff wins/championships.

Past history is usually a decent indicator of future events.

Are we magically going to start winning the games that “matter” now, after never winning them in the past?

I seriously think the answer is YES, FWIW.

We are experiencing a seismic shift in perception. MF and co. are making ND “cool” again. Kids are noticing. Once the fans in the stadium get on board, the train is coming.


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[ShamrockOnHelmet]

And so not having one of those bowl wins does exactly what for ND who has had multiple playoff appearances.

IMO, nothing, other than how those of us who follow the program feel. And what ammo it gives content creators like ESPN to create narratives for their programming. I think latter is what most people dislike the most.

That said, you DO have to win games of import (whether these bowls meet that standard or not is another issue entirely) if you want to be perceived as a top program.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Their status changed from “program who has never won a major bowl game in the BCS/CFP/NY6 era” to “program who has won a major bowl game is the BCS/CFP/NY6 era.”


I’m being facetious. I get your point, but wouldn’t you at the very least admit it’s deeply troubling to be the only team that has never won one of these effing games?


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Honestly no. I’m in the minorities but since the BCS era bowl games if your team isn’t #1-4 headingbginto bowl week then the other bowl games are really just extra practice and money generation opportunities. They literally move the needle very little for me. Especially after this year the bowl season has been unimportant for all teams not in the playoffs. I challenge anyone to argue that the team we played in the Gator bowl was a fair representation of the team that beat Clemson and Tennessee or vice versa with us having a new QB and missing MM and several defensive players OR that USC losing to us changes your perception of their team or us winning against a depleted USC changes your perception of our team.

 

[Dale]

at the very least admit it’s deeply troubling to be the only team that has never won one of these effing games?

No. Troubling implies not winning a NY6 bowl will lead to future issues. As in it’s a sign of things to come. They’ve basically proven that to not be the case by making the Playoffs twice and 2012 National Championship. Lack of NY6 success has had no negative effect on the bigger goal.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

Fuck Michigan…..

That being said they haven’t won a bowl game in 6 consecutive years but have two consecutive CFP and two consecutive wins over OSU. How are they perceived now?


What troubles me more than anything post season related is our troubling inexplicable regular season losses at home to inferior teams.

 

[Blazers46]

Fuck Michigan…..

That being said they haven’t won a bowl game in 6 consecutive years but have two consecutive CFP and two consecutive wins over OSU. How are they perceived now?

Depends on what Harbaugh does.

I think they do better than 17 in recruiting. JH flirtation with NFL stunted their ‘23 class but they still finished higher than I thought. They will be top 10 and with next years schedule it’s going to be the same as this year. High possibility they go undefeated until OSU.

The recipe is to play meaningless games and have that one game that matters. Michigan was a CFP team last year without playing anyone. They will do the same next year.

I see JH staying this year and cashing out before the 2024/2025/2026 schedule. At Texas, At Okahoma, Oklahoma. But I could see both teams opting out if they join the SEC.

 

[stlnd01]

Fuck Michigan…..

That being said they haven’t won a bowl game in 6 consecutive years but have two consecutive CFP and two consecutive wins over OSU. How are they perceived now?


What troubles me more than anything post season related is our troubling inexplicable regular season losses at home to inferior teams.

To be fair, before this season, we hadn’t done that in a long time. The perception in the later BK years was that we couldn’t beat good teams away from home.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

To be fair, before this season, we hadn’t done that in a long time. The perception in the later BK years was that we couldn’t beat good teams away from home.

My point isn’t that there isn’t a clear perception of who or what ND is or isn’t. There is and it’s justified. It’s simply that not winning a NY6/BCSCFP game has had miminmal effect on that perception and that winning at least one or losing another of those will not affect that perception.

If the perception is to change we need sustained winning over multiple years beating the teams we are supposed to and also winning against top tier teams. No coach has been able to do that over this time frame although BK has elevated the program to the cusp. Hopefully MF can take us over and upward.

 

[Irishdrunk]

Past history is usually a decent indicator of future events.

Are we magically going to start winning the games that “matter” now, after never winning them in the past?

I seriously think the answer is YES, FWIW.

We are experiencing a seismic shift in perception. MF and co. are making ND “cool” again. Kids are noticing. Once the fans in the stadium get on board, the train is coming.


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Are we seeing a seismic shift?? LOL. No.

We were ranked Pre-Season 5. We will end this season Top 15. Is our recruiting better? Yes it seems so. Is it seismic shift? I would say Top 3 or Top 5 class would be more like it. We have a Top 10 class with zero 5 stars. Really good class. But I would say a seismic shift would have been with Keeley, Bowen, etc. Those last losses hurt.

I don't see any indication we are "cool" again. Not sure if ND is really ever "cool" LOL.

This kind of posting gives the illusion we are killing it when we just had an unacceptable 4 loss season. That is not cool to me. Lets not overstate what is happening - Freeman has wood to chop here.

Am I hopeful MF can grow into a really good HC? Yes I am hopeful.

But MF is going to have to learn to be a strong operator and not be governed by his assistants like it seems like he was this last season. Its his ship to be the Captain.

 

[Henges24]

Those one off wins are proof that everyone can have at the very least a “lightning in a bottle” year, except us apparently.


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2012 was NDs lightning in the bottle. We just ran into one of the greatest teams of all time.

 

[NorthDakota]

Yeah. Kyren’s decision looks more messed up after watching Bryce Young and Will Anderson play in their bowl game.

Kyren skipping was embarrassing. "I'm gonna sit out bc I'm a 5th round pick" lmaoo

 

[CoachB]

I just don't think it matters. And it becomes completely immaterial in two years once we have real playoffs. It'll be about playoff appearances/playoff wins/championships.

Can't wait for that!!

 

[Sea Turtle]

This might be too soon but you can add Tulane to the list.

Even Tulane....

 

[Irishdrunk]

You’re the one who is delusional if you think an optimistic post on a message board creates any inflated illusions regarding a season we ALL watched last year, including the original poster.

Yea well I read "Seismic Shift" - I burst out laughing. Very strong puffery for sure. Sounds like "Gap Closing" or Top 3-5 Class which certain analysts swore we would do no worse than 5th best class.... and "I don't see a loss on the schedule." type of opining.

Might perceptions be better for us Nationally?? Perhaps. I think while it may be argued - a "Seismic Shift" is really grand wording.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Not that this doesn't have credence, but I keep being blown away by how often ND is pitted against a playoff caliber team in their BCS/NY6 bowl game. The Fiesta Bowl last year was the only time I recall them playing a remotely beatable opponent in one of those bowl matchups.

2000 Fiesta Bowl: Oregon State led by Ochocinco and the Hoosh.
2005 Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State led by Heisman Winner Troy Smith, Ted Ginn and Santonio Holmes.
2006 Sugar Bowl: LSU with pre-drank Russell.
2012 NCG: Probably the 2nd best Alabama team under Saban.
2015 Fiesta Bowl: Ohio State team that had 8 starters go in the first round of the '16 and '17 NFL drafts.
2018 Cotton Bowl: Half of Clemson's defense went in the first round the following 2 drafts.
2020 Rose Bowl: The best Alabama team under Saban.

Then I look at some of these teams' bowl wins:

Wisconsin (beat 8-4 Stanford in the '99 Rose Bowl)
Iowa (beat 10-3 Georgia Tech in the '09 Orange Bowl)
Michigan (beat a mediocre VT squad in the '11 Sugar Bowl who got obliterated by Clemson in the ACC CG)
Nebraska (beat 9-3 Tennessee in the '99 Fiesta Bowl)
Penn State (beat 8-5 Florida State in the '05 Orange Bowl / beat Memphis in the '19 Cotton Bowl)
Ole Miss (beat 10-3 Oklahoma State in the '15 Sugar Bowl)
Texas A&M (beat 8-4 North Carolina in '20 Orange Bowl, while UNC was missing practically their entire offense)
Georgia Tech (beat 10-3 Mississippi State in the '14 Orange Bowl)
Virginia Tech (beat 11-3 Cincinnati in the '08 Orange Bowl)
Iowa State (beat 4-3 Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl...really? 4-3?)
Baylor (beat 10-3 and Corral-less Ole Miss in the '21 Sugar Bowl)
Kansas (beat 11-3 Virginia Tech in the '07 Orange Bowl)
Washington (beat 8-4 Purdue in the '00 Rose Bowl)
Oregon State (beat 9-3 Notre Dame in the '00 Fiesta Bowl)
Houston (beat 10-3 Florida State led by Everett Golson in the '15 Peach Bowl)

Those are some pretty forgiving draws that ND simply hasn't gotten. I don't think a single one of those teams is as good as '21 Oklahoma State.