Silly Season 2015/2016 (Coaching Changes)

NDohio

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The fact that they were even a playoff contender is what makes him special.

To play devil's advocate, was cincy some conference winning BCS team before Kelly?



That's nice but I want chicken shit to fertilizer to corn to feed, to cow, to beef and steaks my man.

Weis improved the program, Kelly improved the program, next guy needs to be able to finish the job whenever they move on from BK.

It got hit on by NDdomer2, and I obviously know your logical answer to this already, but it is a funny observation to note that in 2009, your post could have said "The fact that Cincinnati was even a national championship contender is what makes Kelly special."

I still wonder what would have happened if the refs hadn't put that 0:01 back on the clock for Texas... would they have had the balls to put Cincy in the national championship game? Boise and TCU both finished the regular season unbeaten, as well, but neither had been as impressive or as tested as Cincy. Also, Florida's only loss was a convincing defeat at the hands of Bama during conference championship week... would they have given Tebow a shot at redemption, even though Bama had won the first matchup decisively?



Based on what Houston fans are saying, they're laying their disappointment at the feet of the coordinators. Apparently the playcalling against SMU was terrible at best, and has been suspect all year... having been at the UC-Houston game earlier in the year, I can confirm that I was scratching my head at Houston's first-half gameplan that kept UC in the game (and even had UC leading late in the game).

If the Houston fans are right in their criticism, then you can't blame the players for lack of motivation if their lame-duck coach and his coordinators are air-mailing their gameplans, looking at greener pastures.



Yeah - I truly see TH and Houston in the exact same way BK was at Cinci. I hope Herman does take another job soon just so he doesn't become our next coach and all this talk of him coming to ND can stop.
 

gkIrish

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My love affair with Herman is based mostly on his time at Iowa St. and OSU. His success at Houston has just confirmed to me that he can outcoach the best coaches out there. They have beaten 2 top ten teams in 1.5 years. The losses to SMU and Navy don't mean that much to me because Houston has become the hunted and they don't have the talent to deal with that.

Brian Kelly was a good hire. I've never said otherwise. It just hasn't worked out. The advantage Herman has over Kelly is the time spent at a major program. BK never coached at a big school like OSU. That is a big difference to me. So I think Herman has all the right traits (as Kelly did) plus he is YOUNG and connects with players.

I know an OSU offensive lineman that is in the NFL now and he told me Herman is also a great person off the field.

Also he has Urban Meyer as a mentor. Brian Kelly didn't have that coming in.
 
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tko

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I can't wait for the season to end and the DC rumors start flying.
 

greyhammer90

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My love affair with Herman is based mostly on his time at Iowa St. and OSU. His success at Houston has just confirmed to me that he can outcoach the best coaches out there. They have beaten 2 top ten teams in 1.5 years. The losses to SMU and Navy don't mean that much to me because Houston has become the hunted and they don't have the talent to deal with that.

Brian Kelly was a good hire. I've never said otherwise. It just hasn't worked out. The advantage Herman has over Kelly is the time spent at a major program. BK never coached at a big school like OSU. That is a big difference to me. So I think Herman has all the right traits (as Kelly did) plus he is YOUNG and connects with players.

I know an OSU offensive lineman that is in the NFL now and he told me Herman is also a great person off the field.

Also he has Urban Meyer as a mentor. Brian Kelly didn't have that coming in.

What two top 10 teams has Houston beat?
 

NDRock

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What two top 10 teams has Houston beat?

FSU finished 14th and OU is terrible and aren't ranked. That's like saying Texas beat a top 10 team in ND this year. It's interesting that the past two seasons, Navy has had a very similar record as Houston. Maybe even that Ken dude has a bright future.
 

NDRock

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My love affair with Herman is based mostly on his time at Iowa St. and OSU. His success at Houston has just confirmed to me that he can outcoach the best coaches out there. They have beaten 2 top ten teams in 1.5 years. The losses to SMU and Navy don't mean that much to me because Houston has become the hunted and they don't have the talent to deal with that.

Brian Kelly was a good hire. I've never said otherwise. It just hasn't worked out. The advantage Herman has over Kelly is the time spent at a major program. BK never coached at a big school like OSU. That is a big difference to me. So I think Herman has all the right traits (as Kelly did) plus he is YOUNG and connects with players.

I know an OSU offensive lineman that is in the NFL now and he told me Herman is also a great person off the field.

Also he has Urban Meyer as a mentor. Brian Kelly didn't have that coming in.


They don't have the talent to deal with Navy and SMU?
 

ResLife Hero

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Not willing to go into a ton of detail, but people may want to cool their jets on Herman. He's had some success, but I'm very close to a player and his family, and Herman has handled this season very poorly. He had a team that was completely bought in on day 1, but he let the pressure of his situation really get to the kids through his handling of it.

That doesn't mean he isn't a good coach, but the ND job is going to bring a lot of pressure and scrutiny that I'm not sure he can handle.
 

NDRock

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They don't have the talent to withstand getting every team's best game, no.

But they're losing to teams in their conference with similar talent. Don't you think ND is gets everyone's best game?
 

gkIrish

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But they're losing to teams in their conference with similar talent. Don't you think ND is gets everyone's best game?

You just proved my point. If the talent is similar, and Houston is the hunted because they are highly ranked and beat big bad Oklahoma, don't you think they are going to lose a couple games to teams that get fired up to play them? People use this excuse all the time to justify Notre Dame losing. Difference is ND's talent level is far superior to the teams they lose to.
 

NDRock

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You just proved my point. If the talent is similar, and Houston is the hunted because they are highly ranked and beat big bad Oklahoma, don't you think they are going to lose a couple games to teams that get fired up to play them? People use this excuse all the time to justify Notre Dame losing. Difference is ND's talent level is far superior to the teams they lose to.

All I "proved" is that he can't get his team up to play against similar teams when they are "fired up" to play them. If he can't do it at Houston what makes you think he'd be any good here? Look at Navy's record the last couple of years. They actually have a better conference record than Houston while recruiting significantly worse 96 to Houston's 68 ranking. Is nobody in that conference "fired up" to play them? You nail Kelly for every thing that goes wrong here (rightfully so) yet gloss over any issues that Herman has.
 

gkIrish

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All I "proved" is that he can't get his team up to play against similar teams when they are "fired up" to play them. If he can't do it at Houston what makes you think he'd be any good here? Look at Navy's record the last couple of years. They actually have a better conference record than Houston while recruiting significantly worse 96 to Houston's 68 ranking. Is nobody in that conference "fired up" to play them? You nail Kelly for every thing that goes wrong here (rightfully so) yet gloss over any issues that Herman has.

1) He is in year 2 of his system/recruiting, not year 7
2) He has significantly less talent than BK does
3) He has significantly less overall resources than BK does

I'm not "glossing over" anything. I'm stating that losing to a couple teams in his conference does not phase me. Now if they finished 7-5 or something like that I would be concerned.

Trying to compare the criticisms I make for BK to Herman is comparing apples and oranges.
 

gkIrish

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The goal is NOT to find a coach that has a better resume than BK. That's not going to happen barring someone like Chris Petersen or Les Miles coming here.

The goal is to find someone who would have more success than BK given the same resources/opportunities. You do that by finding someone that has had success at a smaller program and/or has overachieved significantly with mediocre talent. Having successful coaching experience at a big program is a huge plus. Herman checks all those boxes.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it. BK was NOT a bad hire. Other than lack of experience at a big program, he checked all the boxes. He just did not work out. Doesn't mean you don't hire someone like Herman because he has similar traits that BK had back in 2009.
 
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koonja

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The goal is NOT to find a coach that has a better resume than BK. That's not going to happen barring someone like Chris Petersen or Les Miles coming here.

The goal is to find someone who would have more success than BK given the same resources/opportunities. You do that by finding someone that has had success at a smaller program and/or has overachieved significantly with mediocre talent. Having successful coaching experience at a big program is a huge plus. Herman checks all those boxes.

I've said it before and I'll repeat it. BK was NOT a bad hire. Other than lack of experience at a big program, he checked all the boxes. He just did not work out. Doesn't mean you don't hire someone like Herman because he has similar traits that BK had back in 2009.

Dude, you don't need to defend why Herman wouldn't be an upgrade and a great hire. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is nuts.
 

NDohio

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Dude, you don't need to defend why Herman wouldn't be an upgrade and a great hire. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is nuts.

I am more than glad to be n the nuts category.

Sorry, I don't think Herman would be a great fit at ND...
 

IrishLion

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Debates centered on Herman are pointless at this point haha. He's not coming to ND, and we've got BK for another season (maybe 2) regardless of what happens on the field.

Settle in and start researching the the deep-sleepers in the coaching pool, because someone we aren't thinking about is probably going to be the new hot name when ND is ready to hire.
 

NDRock

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Dude, you don't need to defend why Herman wouldn't be an upgrade and a great hire. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is nuts.

I think you could say that if we hired Herman this year (hypothetically) it would be a "great" hire based on who is available right now. The same could be said for the Kelly hire in 2009. What I don't think is obvious is whether or not he would be an upgrade. Kelly got us to the Championship game in year 3. Am I sure Herman would actually win a Natty? No.

One thing I'll say is that I don't want any coach that doesn't believe in running the football. Hopefully Jack realizes we're a midwest program with shitty weather that needs to play physical football to be elite. Herman and his 3.9 ypc offense doesn't excite me, just like watching Cincy's offense in 2009 didn't excite me either.
 

IrishLion

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I think you could say that if we hired Herman this year (hypothetically) it would be a "great" hire based on who is available right now. The same could be said for the Kelly hire in 2009. What I don't think is obvious is whether or not he would be an upgrade. Kelly got us to the Championship game in year 3. Am I sure Herman would actually win a Natty? No.

One thing I'll say is that I don't want any coach that doesn't believe in running the football. Hopefully Jack realizes we're a midwest program with shitty weather that needs to play physical football to be elite. Herman and his 3.9 ypc offense doesn't excite me, just like watching Cincy's offense in 2009 didn't excite me either.

I agree with your general premise on running the ball. I'd love to see a true power-spread if we can't see a pro-style offense with a fullback.

However, it's a misleading to say that BK doesn't believe in running the football, and to cite UC as an example in the same breath as citing a bad YPC average... their top 2 backs in 2009 combined for 1200 yards and 13 TD's, averaging over 6 YPC. That's a great rushing offense when you've got a QB that accounts for another 400 yards on the ground, and a passing attack that accounted for 4000 yards. That's almost the definition of an exciting offense. BK had his offense perfected that year, both running and passing.
 

NDRock

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I agree with your general premise on running the ball. I'd love to see a true power-spread if we can't see a pro-style offense with a fullback.

However, it's a misleading to say that BK doesn't believe in running the football, and to cite UC as an example in the same breath as citing a bad YPC average... their top 2 backs in 2009 combined for 1200 yards and 13 TD's, averaging over 6 YPC. That's a great rushing offense when you've got a QB that accounts for another 400 yards on the ground, and a passing attack that accounted for 4000 yards. That's almost the definition of an exciting offense. BK had his offense perfected that year, both running and passing.

First off, I only watched the Pitt/Cincy game that year at the end of the season. If I recall correctly, it was snowing and he threw the ball 40+ times while running less than 20 times. That made me a little less excited about him.

When Kelly commits to the run we are successful. Look at the stats and when he has a first year starter at QB. We dumb down the offense and the team is much more successful. The problem comes when he puts too much on a the QB.
 

T Town Tommy

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I agree with your general premise on running the ball. I'd love to see a true power-spread if we can't see a pro-style offense with a fullback.

However, it's a misleading to say that BK doesn't believe in running the football, and to cite UC as an example in the same breath as citing a bad YPC average... their top 2 backs in 2009 combined for 1200 yards and 13 TD's, averaging over 6 YPC. That's a great rushing offense when you've got a QB that accounts for another 400 yards on the ground, and a passing attack that accounted for 4000 yards. That's almost the definition of an exciting offense. BK had his offense perfected that year, both running and passing.

But Kelly used the pass there to set up the run. Nothing wrong with that but I would rather see an offense that is a run first offense that requires a defense to have to bring the safety up in the box to have to stop it. Then pass on them. Maybe it doesn't matter in the end but it makes a difference when one describes a power run game.
 

BGIF

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Inside College Football: LSU still has a long road ahead in replacing Les Miles - CBSSports.com
by Dennis Dodd 11/2/16
...

Yes, complications continue to mount at LSU in a coaching search that turns 40 (days old) this week. Presumed Les Miles replacement Tom Herman (at Houston) has lost two games, a College Football Playoff berth and likely the American Athletic Conference. Florida State's Jimbo Fisher -- LSU's former offensive coordinator -- is no sure thing to come either.
In other words, Alleva is dangerously close to where he was last November -- uncertain about the man who will lead the football program. That is, unless you believe a veteran charismatic leader has emerged right under the AD's nose.
But you don't necessarily fire the winningest coach in the school's history only to walk down the hall and elevate the defensive line coach.

...
 

PANDFAN

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les miles is reportedly going to bring w/ him wherever he goes (likely purdue)sark and locksly from bama

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Les Miles telling schools he'd bring along two Alabama staffers as part of offensive staff <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/collegefootball?src=hash">#collegefootball</a> <a href="https://t.co/JIS11MuB9p">https://t.co/JIS11MuB9p</a></p>— CollegeFootballTalk (@CFTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFTalk/status/799698642420514816">November 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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koonja

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les miles is reportedly going to bring w/ him wherever he goes (likely purdue)sark and locksly from bama

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Report: Les Miles telling schools he'd bring along two Alabama staffers as part of offensive staff <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/collegefootball?src=hash">#collegefootball</a> <a href="https://t.co/JIS11MuB9p">https://t.co/JIS11MuB9p</a></p>— CollegeFootballTalk (@CFTalk) <a href="https://twitter.com/CFTalk/status/799698642420514816">November 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm not for Les at ND, but if true, I'd take the package.
 

Sherm Sticky

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Les will make Purdue competitive again by 2018. Mark it down.


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