Sexual Assault and Possible Misconceptions

[IrishinSyria]

If I was president one of the first things I would try and accomplish is completely revamp the sex offender list laws and do so retroactively

Completely agree that they need a serious overhaul.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Seriously? You try to kiss a girl at a party and she pushes you away and you think that puts you in the same category as someone who violently rapes a child?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

Forced kissing implies that something happens after she pushes you away.

 

[wizards8507]

Forced kissing implies that something happens after she pushes you away.

The category includes ATTEMPTED forced kissing.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

 

[stlnd01]

So, there's no actual news here at this point, huh?

 

[Booslum31]

I'd like to suggest that this thread only gets bumped if there is an actual update on the situation in the dorm. I know that this type of suggestion goes against the whole idea of this site but this thread has me a bit anxious. Sorry for the bump...I'll see myself out.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'd like to suggest that this thread only gets bumped if there is an actual update on the situation in the dorm. I know that this type of suggestion goes against the whole idea of this site but this thread has me a bit anxious. Sorry for the bump...I'll see myself out.

I agree 1000%.

STOP THE NEEDLESS BUMPING PEOPLE! No more bumping (or grinding)!!

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Do you think someone who is convicted of sexual assault should go on a sex offender list?

The way Indiana defines it, no. With some states Sexual assault can be an aggravated felony; in that case indubitably!

Anyone that wants gossip, shouldn't check this thread, it is just an esoteric conversation not related to any situation real or imagined.

 

[stlnd01]

I agree 1000%.

STOP THE NEEDLESS BUMPING PEOPLE! No more bumping (or grinding)!!

What? Never stop grinding. Rise and grind. It's what all the Twitter-savvy recruits are doing these days.
But bumping? Yeah, not so much. Especially not bumping the threads of very talented freshmen.

 

[ACamp1900]

Bump?

 

[Irish Insanity]

This thread title doesn't suggest this thread is about the possibility of a player(s) being involved in a recent sexual assault.

Why exactly is it an issue when it's bumped talking about sexual assault and thing connected to it?

 

[BeauBenken]

This thread is NOT about the specific situation going on at ND and is rather to organize a discussion on sexual assault in general.

So don't come here looking for updates on the ND situation. Someone will post those elsewhere.

 

[dad4aa]

I have not seen a thread to discuss the issues specifically going on at Notre Dame and I do not want to hijack the fall camp thread thread so I am posting this here and someone else can move it where it should go. Apparently there were two more reported occurrences last night. One was a sexual assault and one was a sexual battery, not knowing the difference between the two and I have not heard anything about Notre Dame football players being involved so I'm not trying to imply they are I'm just letting people know that we have the incident Thursday night and we have two more today. This is not what I want to hear when my daughter is on that campus.

 

[wizards8507]

I have not seen a thread to discuss the issues specifically going on at Notre Dame and I do not want to hijack the fall camp thread thread so I am posting this here and someone else can move it where it should go. Apparently there were two more reported occurrences last night. One was a sexual assault and one was a sexual battery, not knowing the difference between the two and I have not heard anything about Notre Dame football players being involved so I'm not trying to imply they are I'm just letting people know that we have the incident Thursday night and we have two more today. This is not what I want to hear when my daughter is on that campus.

This is a real-life example of why we need to stop being cowardly with our choice of language. There are too many vaguely defined offenses included in "sexual assault" and "sexual battery." Folks like you deserve to know whether there's violent rape going on or if some freshmen not used to alcohol got a little grabby in a dorm party. It's dishonest and, frankly, dangerous for the folks in charge to obfuscate things with generic phraseology.

ETA from the SBT: Notre Dame's university handbook defines sexual assault as sexual intercourse by any person upon another without consent, while sexual battery is defined as non-consensual sexual contact.

 

[dad4aa]

This is a real-life example of why we need to stop being cowardly with our choice of language. There are too many vaguely defined offenses included in "sexual assault" and "sexual battery." Folks like you deserve to know whether there's violent rape going on or if some freshmen not used to alcohol got a little grabby in a dorm party. It's dishonest and, frankly, dangerous for the folks in charge to obfuscate things with generic phraseology.

ETA from the SBT: Notre Dame's university handbook defines sexual assault as sexual intercourse by any person upon another without consent, while sexual battery is defined as non-consensual sexual contact.

Agree 100%. Big difference between the two.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I have not seen a thread to discuss the issues specifically going on at Notre Dame and I do not want to hijack the fall camp thread thread so I am posting this here and someone else can move it where it should go. Apparently there were two more reported occurrences last night. One was a sexual assault and one was a sexual battery, not knowing the difference between the two and I have not heard anything about Notre Dame football players being involved so I'm not trying to imply they are I'm just letting people know that we have the incident Thursday night and we have two more today. This is not what I want to hear when my daughter is on that campus.

It sucks, but it is nothing new. When I got my first email on Thursday, both my co-worker and my wife said get used to it, because you'll get them quite often. With the scrutiny ND and other college campuses are under, they are being beyond diligent in reporting ANY kind of incident (which IMHO they should've been doing quite a long time ago). The severity of the incidents and the veracity of them? Employees never find that part out. And talking to two friends on different college campuses, they say the same thing happens there as well.

Oh, and sexual battery as defined by du lac is non-consexual sexual contact.

 

[Circa]

Sorry to digress, but this issue always gets my ire up.

As a culture we have moved so far into the "boogeymen are out there" line of thinking that we have scared our young people and made up insane laws about consent (check out California's "yes means yes" if you don't believe me). Sex is not some big bad awful scary thing and it's happening everywhere and it always has - and thank God for that - we wouldn't be around much longer with out it!

NOW that being said. Assault, Rape, and Harassment are different matters all together. If someone is out there deliberately committing violent crimes, they need to be locked up. What bothers me is that 99% of the cases we hear about are alcohol fueled, he-said-she-said, typical teenage sexual activity. But we've scared young women to the point of lunacy. One stat people like to throw around is 1 in 4 women are victims of sexual assault. Assuming there isn't 1 guy running around campus doing an awful lot of assaulting, we're in turn saying that 1 in 4 young men should be locked up for felonious sexual assault. A crime which is punishable by up to four years in prison and a lifetime of punishment as a registered sex offender. Does anyone really believe that's what's going on? Anyone looking closely at Shembo or Winston or Owen Labrie cases can see these were not felonious actions. These cases are not the outliers, these are what 99% of these stories are made up of.

I have no idea what happened at ND this week, but everyone has got to stop the quick to judge, boys are evil campaigns. IMHO there are usually racial, religious, parental, and shame related factors which are much larger contributors to these incidents.

Don't even get me started about journalists and social scientists making up stories and facts to drive this issue.

Waking up in the morning is too damn hard.

 

[TheChosen1]

Notre Dame sends alerts about sex crimes - Public Safety - South Bend Tribune

3 possible cases.

 

[ACamp1900]

Odds that all three don't include a football player?

 

[GoIrish41]

Seriously? You try to kiss a girl at a party and she pushes you away and you think that puts you in the same category as someone who violently rapes a child?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note 4 using Tapatalk.

I was responding to your post that stated the definition of "sexual assault" was expanded to include forced kissing. It was not. Sexual assault includes unwanted physical contact. I did not even come close to lumping forced kissing in with child rape. I was correcting your definition.

 

[wizards8507]

I was responding to your post that stated the definition of "sexual assault" was expanded to include forced kissing. It was not. Sexual assault includes unwanted physical contact. I did not even come close to lumping forced kissing in with child rape. I was correcting your definition.

It's not "my" definition. The oft-cited statistic that claims that 1 in 5 women is a victim of sexual assault includes attempted forced kissing in the definition.

 

[Blazers46]

Completely agree that they need a serious overhaul.

There is a guy in my in-laws bike club who found himself having to register in Elkhart, IN for something really dumb. His 18 year old daughter was in a very violent relationship with an older man. She left him and came to live with them. After a few days she insisted on moving back in with her abusive boyfriend. The dad refused to let his 18 year old daughter leave the house. The boyfriend called the police and he he was charged with criminal confinement and had to register as a sex offender.

 

[phgreek]

There is a guy in my in-laws bike club who found himself having to register in Elkhart, IN for something really dumb. His 18 year old daughter was in a very violent relationship with an older man. She left him and came to live with them. After a few days she insisted on moving back in with her abusive boyfriend. The dad refused to let his 18 year old daughter leave the house. The boyfriend called the police and he he was charged with criminal confinement and had to register as a sex offender.

...Kinda reinforces my thoughts on that issue.

It is the same mechanism that gets cops hurt trying to help victims of domestic violence...and lay people aren't equipped to deal with that.

The part folks need to think about is, when we do that to a father...other fathers are taking note of what happened. So the next time one of them is faced with this kind of situation, how many decide to just end the slap happy boyfriend? Could you blame him? If we are going to screw up his life anyway, AAAnd his daughter remains in peril...what are his choices? Who here would honestly let their 18 y/o daughter return to that?

 

[Irish#1]

This one is going to be interesting. Former West Point Cadet noe a Colt is going on trial today for rape. The girl is out with friends and gets drunk. Says she woke up in his apartment and had been raped. She can't remember anything else about the night before or after yet is positive she had told him no.

Ex-Colts LB Josh McNary’s rape trial starts Monday

 

[IrishLax]

There is a guy in my in-laws bike club who found himself having to register in Elkhart, IN for something really dumb. His 18 year old daughter was in a very violent relationship with an older man. She left him and came to live with them. After a few days she insisted on moving back in with her abusive boyfriend. The dad refused to let his 18 year old daughter leave the house. The boyfriend called the police and he he was charged with criminal confinement and had to register as a sex offender.

Seriously? That is unreal...

 

[ND NYC]

can someone PM me what happened/what they think happened on campus over the weekend? is there more to the story other than the sbt article of "3 reported cases" and is there any worry/scuttlebutt it may involve guys on the team?

 

[ND NYC]

There is a guy in my in-laws bike club who found himself having to register in Elkhart, IN for something really dumb. His 18 year old daughter was in a very violent relationship with an older man. She left him and came to live with them. After a few days she insisted on moving back in with her abusive boyfriend. The dad refused to let his 18 year old daughter leave the house. The boyfriend called the police and he he was charged with criminal confinement and had to register as a sex offender.

there has to be more to this story-just cant be right.

 

[IrishinSyria]

there has to be more to this story-just cant be right.

My thoughts too. A quick Google search of Indiana law seems to confirm that idea.

Ind. Code § 11-8-8-5 : Indiana Code - Section 11-8-8-5: "Sex or violent offender"


I can't really cite because I'm on my phone, but the relevant section says criminal confinement is a registerable offense IF the person confined is under 18 and the person doing the confining is not the legal guardian. Either this is a blatant missapplication of the law, there's another -harsher- law out there, or there's more to the story.

 

[GoIrish41]

It's not "my" definition. The oft-cited statistic that claims that 1 in 5 women is a victim of sexual assault includes attempted forced kissing in the definition.

And that is accurate. Forced kissing fits the definition, but you are trying to say the stats are wrong by misrepresenting what sexual assault is. Nobody is saying that forced kissing is the same as rape, but you are using the term sexual assault incorrectly if you do not think it includes unwanted sexual contact. You are diminishing your own point about the statistics. I think 1 in 5 is probably pretty accurate for sexual assault.

 

[wizards8507]

And that is accurate. Forced kissing fits the definition, but you are trying to say the stats are wrong by misrepresenting what sexual assault is. Nobody is saying that forced kissing is the same as rape, but you are using the term sexual assault incorrectly if you do not think it includes unwanted sexual contact. You are diminishing your own point about the statistics. I think 1 in 5 is probably pretty accurate for sexual assault.

I understand how it's defined and how the statistic is compiled. I object to how the statistic is used. If you're going to include things like attempted unwanted kissing, it's inappropriate to turn around and use that statistic as evidence of some kind of "rape culture," as the activists allege. When most people hear "sexual assault," they're going to assume that statistic means violent rape and/or other violent forced genital contact. Right now, the following examples are all included in that scare-tactic statistic, and the perpetrators are labeled sex offenders for life:

1. Jack and Jill share a six pack of Smirnoff Ice and have sex. Jack is now a rapist.

2. Bob and Katie flirt all night. Bob tries to kiss Katie. Katie rejects his advances. Bob stops. Bob is now guilty of sexual assault.

3. Teenage Steve is dating teenage girlfriend Emily. They regularly have sex. On the night of Steve's 18th birthday, they have sex again. Steve is now a rapist.

Lumping those things under the same umbrella as violent rape and child molestation is obscene. It's like including speeding tickets in a statistic about how vehicular-related crime is on the rise.

Nobody is saying that forced kissing is the same as rape...

Not explicitly, but that's exactly what the activists want you to believe. There's no other reason to lump all of these disparate offenses in with one another unless you're trying to inflate a statistic to make a point.

 

[JTLA]

Further to this discussion, rape is a horrible, violent, traumatic, life threatening, and criminal act. There is a rational fear of death, a sense of helplessness - that it will never end and that there is no escape, and that something is being taken from you most close to your soul and all while you are forced to observe. This feeling is something that we as men can not likely even comprehend or come close to experiencing.

This crime does occur.
Any victim of this crime deserves the highest standard of care, understanding, support, and justice.
Any perpetrator of this crime deserves the harshest standard of punishment.

Lumping any incident that is not rape into a category of "sexual assault" for the purpose of promoting an activist, feminist, or journalistic agenda is sick and twisted and actually does a tremendous disservice to real victims.

Ask a survivor of a life threatening violent "sexual assault" what she thinks about 1 in 5.