SEC Open Thread

[Irish#1]

They're going to be a sub-.500 team within the next three weeks. Problem is the last 5 games on their schedule are a joke so they'll probably salvage a decent overall record and will prolly get a cupcake bowl matchup. Thus, all sorts of artificial positive hype heading into NSD and next spring...

Given the youth on this team, they may not recover if they lose the next three.

 

[Irish YJ]

They haven't gotten over the hump of closing out games obviously but they're not playing bad football for the most part. A mix of young players and vet players that have been on bad teams is a tough fix.

No they are not. What a lot of folks who aren't familiar with the program don't realize is how deep the hole that Kiffin (psychological and atmosphere), and Dooley (recruiting) dug for the Vols. They've made pretty decent performance and recruiting strides since the switch. They are still incredibly young. They just need to learn to close. Dobbs still struggles, and I think there is still lack of confidence in him from a play calling perspective. They have the pieces, and the pieces are learning and getting better. They'll be fine. I still stand by my 8 win (I think that's what I said). I had them losing to OK, which they should have won, had FL as a toss up I think. I bet a billion vbucks they beat Ark this week and UGA in a few weeks. If they do that, they're right back in it. They'll lose to Bama but the rest of their schedule is manageable.

They've lost by 1pt at Florida, and OT with OK... too early to look for the panic button or talk about hot seats. Learning to close is all they need right now.

In terms of HJ, UT can make a case that they are only a few pieces away, and QB is one of them.

 

[IrishLax]

I don't really buy that. They beat zero ranked teams last year, they were flat out bad even if "improved" slightly from being an utter trainwreck. They went 0-5 against ranked teams, and had one win by more than a TD against a Power 5 opponent (Kentucky) during the regular season. They could've been as bad as 1-8 against Power 5 teams in the regular season, but they won a squeaker against 3-9 Vandy and 6-6 South Carolina in OT.

They definitely improved, but improving from "utterly terrible" to "still really bad" is nothing to be optimistic about. They look like they will win 8 games tops this year even with 3 cupcakes because of the tough game against Oklahoma.

The point is that everyone here believes that ND's 8-5 season was unacceptable. Even if excused by the absurd amount of injuries + Frozen Five suspensions that cost us 3 starters before the year even got going, a blown call against an FSU team that would go undefeated in the regular, and two losses directly related to the inability to hold a football... people still look at that season and say "that was unacceptable horsecrap, and we better step forward next year."

Yet Tennessee's unequivocally worse 7-6 is spun as "encouraging progress" and seen as a harbinger of great things to come... and Tennessee is #13 in the pre-season FPI.

I'm not saying that ND is great and Tennessee sucks... I'm saying that Tennessee hasn't hit 8 wins once in the better part of a decade, but is effectively outselling ND with promises of a bright future. Harbaugh turned around a 0 win Stanford team faster than this "rebuild" is going, despite every built in program overhaul measure available to Jones.

I expect them to win 7-8 regular season games this year, with potential for 9 with good breaks. But I cannot rationalize how that is good enough for a #1 QB to pick that school 18+ months before his NSD, unless the major impetus is early PT + facilities.

Well, so far looks like I'm not wrong about everything. Remember when ESPN FPI had Tennessee near the top 10? LOL.

 

[Irish Man3]

No they are not. What a lot of folks who aren't familiar with the program don't realize is how deep the hole that Kiffin (psychological and atmosphere), and Dooley (recruiting) dug for the Vols. They've made pretty decent performance and recruiting strides since the switch. They are still incredibly young. They just need to learn to close. Dobbs still struggles, and I think there is still lack of confidence in him from a play calling perspective. They have the pieces, and the pieces are learning and getting better. They'll be fine. I still stand by my 8 win (I think that's what I said). I had them losing to OK, which they should have won, had FL as a toss up I think. I bet a billion vbucks they beat Ark this week and UGA in a few weeks. If they do that, they're right back in it. They'll lose to Bama but the rest of their schedule is manageable.

They've lost by 1pt at Florida, and OT with OK... too early to look for the panic button or talk about hot seats. Learning to close is all they need right now.

In terms of HJ, UT can make a case that they are only a few pieces away, and QB is one of them.

Yea they are.

I'm very familiar with the program. I didn't say they're lighting the world on fire, but having watched UT for many years, they are improved. Talent is greatly improved on both sides of the ball. The only real thing holding the team back is poor coaching.

The play calling with the lead has been mind boggling. They've taken their foot off the gas in both the OK and UF games. Butch Jones is showing he's not near the on field coach as he is recruiter.

I was never on the bandwagon of a 10-2 UT team, but they're certainly improving.

Side note: I'll bet every Vbuck I have that they don't go 2-0 in those games lol.

 

[Irish YJ]

I dunno, Tenn looking pretty bad right now lol

I dunno about pretty bad. OT loss to a top 15 team, 1pt loss away to a ranked intra-divisional rivalry that's on the upswing. I feel worse about our win vs VA. Had it not been for a ton of luck at the end, we'd be sitting with a loss from a team I can't even find on the FPI.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yea they are.

I'm very familiar with the program. I didn't say they're lighting the world on fire, but having watched UT for many years, they are improved. Talent is greatly improved on both sides of the ball. The only real thing holding the team back is poor coaching.

The play calling with the lead has been mind boggling. They've taken their foot off the gas in both the OK and UF games. Butch Jones is showing he's not near the on field coach as he is recruiter.

I was never on the bandwagon of a 10-2 UT team, but they're certainly improving.

Side note: I'll bet every Vbuck I have that they don't go 2-0 in those games lol.

I'm confused at your post. Are you replying to my "no they're not" with a "yea they are", if so, see the bolded post I responded too. If you're agreeing, ok. I think we're saying the same thing...

10bill says they win both games. Deal?

 

[Irish Man3]

I'm confused at your post. Are you replying to my "no they're not" with a "yea they are", if so, see the bolded post I responded too. If you're agreeing, ok. I think we're saying the same thing...

10bill says they win both games. Deal?

Yessir. Deal

And I'm typically confused at my own posts so I can't help with the explanation much lol.

 

[Irish YJ]

Yessir. Deal

And I'm typically confused at my own posts so I can't help with the explanation much lol.

If I win, I will donate half to a charity

 

[gkIrish]

I'm confused at your post. Are you replying to my "no they're not" with a "yea they are", if so, see the bolded post I responded too. If you're agreeing, ok. I think we're saying the same thing...

10bill says they win both games. Deal?

You are a bad gambler. Could have easily got someone to give you 5 to 1 odds.

 

[Irish YJ]

You are a bad gambler. Could have easily got someone to give you 5 to 1 odds.

lol, vbucks and pride... not a normal thing, and not worried. my strategies are just a tad different when I'm playing poker or betting the ponies . I do rather well when I do.

 

[NDinL.A.]

No they are not. What a lot of folks who aren't familiar with the program don't realize is how deep the hole that Kiffin (psychological and atmosphere), and Dooley (recruiting) dug for the Vols. They've made pretty decent performance and recruiting strides since the switch. They are still incredibly young. They just need to learn to close. Dobbs still struggles, and I think there is still lack of confidence in him from a play calling perspective. They have the pieces, and the pieces are learning and getting better. They'll be fine. I still stand by my 8 win (I think that's what I said). I had them losing to OK, which they should have won, had FL as a toss up I think. I bet a billion vbucks they beat Ark this week and UGA in a few weeks. If they do that, they're right back in it. They'll lose to Bama but the rest of their schedule is manageable.

They've lost by 1pt at Florida, and OT with OK... too early to look for the panic button or talk about hot seats. Learning to close is all they need right now.

In terms of HJ, UT can make a case that they are only a few pieces away, and QB is one of them.

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat. The kids don't know how to win yet. And now it's massively in their heads. They play remedial offense in the 2nd half of games. The Arkansas game will be a bruiser, and then Georgia is gonna beat 'em IMO...the only thing stopping them will be a Bama hangover.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'll take that bet in a heartbeat. The kids don't know how to win yet. And now it's massively in their heads. They play remedial offense in the 2nd half of games. The Arkansas game will be a bruiser, and then Georgia is gonna beat 'em IMO...the only thing stopping them will be a Bama hangover.

1Bil, done
Was just telling 3T I will be cheering for Bama to crush the Dawgs. Not sure they really need a hangover though. UT and UGA always play close. UT almost had them in Athens last year. Gurley ran for 200+. UT had the ball down three with 5 to go, and Hurd fumbled and UGA took it back for a TD. UT scored quickly after that and got got the ball back again... time ran out but UT was driving and knocking at the door. Was in Athens for that one. 2013 was an OT loss. Vols missed a FG in OT I believe... Just close baby.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Not quite sure where the UT love is coming from. A very average team at best with an average coach/good recruiter at the lead. This is a team with a very bad schedule as its only hope of getting any remote attention. Exactly three teams on the schedule that will break .500. Maybe four with Kentucky who wont be much over .500.

I get it you like UT but man really? A couple of years of very good recruiting wont make up for a culture of losing football.

 

[Irish YJ]

Not quite sure where the UT love is coming from. A very average team at best with an average coach/good recruiter at the lead. This is a team with a very bad schedule as its only hope of getting any remote attention. Exactly three teams on the schedule that will break .500. Maybe four with Kentucky who wont be much over .500.

I get it you like UT but man really? A couple of years of very good recruiting wont make up for a culture of losing football.

??

Bama
UGA
Florida
Bowling Green - which is a pretty decent team
Oklahoma
Kentucky

Will be 500 or better.

4 are ranked, which is the same # of teams which are ranked on the Irish schedule. Not blind UT love, just fact and data.

Texas (down year, but still bad), VA, UMASS, Wake, Boston College, and Temple are no better than Bowling Green, Arkansas, Missouri, Vanderbilt. Western Carolina and N Texas I give you. If you look at comparisons, strictly my opinion, but UGA is better than USC, Bama is better than Clemson, OK about the same as Stanford right now, Florida likely better than GT (we shall see), and KY and Bowling Green are likely on par or better with any other team that we play.

 

[Ndaccountant]

What We Learned Saturday

1. Butch Jones is in trouble. Understand what I mean by this after Tennessee blew another late lead, lost another game it controlled and fell once again to Florida (make it 11 straight losses and counting). I'm not saying Jones will or should be fired after this year. But is Jones in trouble? Yes. He may continue to point to strong recruiting classes on signing day and preach about next year. The problem is Tennessee fans don't want to hear it when Jones' teams inexplicably blow leads. That's two losses this month that were games Tennessee should have won. Florida's Jim McElwain out-coached Jones and won a game even the Gators' coach said his team didn't deserve.

Jones and his staff botched this game every which way. Why didn't Jones go for two points when up 26-14 with about 10 minutes left in the game -- an extra point that proved pivotal in the 28-27 loss? How do the Vols commit an illegal substitution penalty in the final seconds to push back a long field goal try? Why was there not much urgency with the clock ticking on the final drive? How did they manage to lose a 27-14 lead in the fourth quarter against a pedestrian Gators offense that put together a 17-play scoring drive?

The Vols are now 1-21 against Florida, Georgia and Alabama since Philip Fulmer's last season in 2008. Jones' first 17 SEC games: 5-12. Derek Dooley's first 17 SEC games: 4-13. When you can compare a Vols coach to Dooley, you're officially in trouble.

College Football Rewind: Seismic shift in Pac-12, Butch Jones in trouble - CBSSports.com

 

[T Town Tommy]

Not quite sure where the UT love is coming from. A very average team at best with an average coach/good recruiter at the lead. This is a team with a very bad schedule as its only hope of getting any remote attention. Exactly three teams on the schedule that will break .500. Maybe four with Kentucky who wont be much over .500.

I get it you like UT but man really? A couple of years of very good recruiting wont make up for a culture of losing football.

Disagree Wingman. UT is a pretty solid team who has blown two fourth quarter 13+ point leads this year. I said they were a year away when the season started. By that I mean they are a year away from being a top 10 caliber team. They are still a top 25 team - they just haven't figured out how to finish and win games yet. They are missing a few pieces to their team and Jones has done a solid job of recruiting to address those needs. An eight win season may have passed them by with the loss to Fla but they can still get there this year. Next year they will be a team to be dealt with. Rocky Not is no more.... Rocky Top is warming up. And UT needs to be good again in CFB. Too much tradition there.

 

[ACamp1900]

UT sucks ass....

 

[NDRock]

Disagree Wingman. UT is a pretty solid team who has blown two fourth quarter 13+ point leads this year. I said they were a year away when the season started. By that I mean they are a year away from being a top 10 caliber team. They are still a top 25 team - they just haven't figured out how to finish and win games yet. They are missing a few pieces to their team and Jones has done a solid job of recruiting to address those needs. An eight win season may have passed them by with the loss to Fla but they can still get there this year. Next year they will be a team to be dealt with. Rocky Not is no more.... Rocky Top is warming up. And UT needs to be good again in CFB. Too much tradition there.

Don't disagree that UT is on the way up. The issue will be what is Butch Jones' ceiling as a Coach. I'm not convinced he's a guy that can win an SEC title. I do think he can be a consistent 8-9 win type coach. I do know that fans around here are at their lowest since he's been hired, nothing a big win won't cure though.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Don't disagree that UT is on the way up. The issue will be what is Butch Jones' ceiling as a Coach. I'm not convinced he's a guy that can win an SEC title. I do think he can be a consistent 8-9 win type coach. I do know that fans around here are at their lowest since he's been hired, nothing a big win won't cure though.

I think that is the question. Can Jones get them to that 10-11 win season and an occasional SECCG. I don't know but he has taken the program farther, faster than I expected. A win against a Ga or a Bama and the fans will be yelling for a ten year extension. LOL

 

[ab2cmiller]

Eliminator Week 4: Tennessee Volunteers bow out with dramatic loss

Tennessee Volunteers

Trending: DOWN

In only three FBS contests this season has a team carried a lead of 13 points or more into the fourth quarter and lost the game. Tennessee has done it twice, against Oklahoma and Florida. Good old Rocky Flop.

Very Entertaining Article where Butch Jones pretty much gets ripped a new one.
Butch Jones Needs a Common Sense Coach | FOX Sports

Lots of great quotes in this article, but this is my favorite

In the fourth quarter of the Florida game Butch Jones's decision making was an absolute clusterfuck. And, honestly, that might be unkind to the word clusterfuck. He was awful, with time management skills that your average 6th grader playing Madden would ridicule, and mind-boggling strategic lapses that cost his team dearly. Honestly, Butch Jones should apologize to every player on his football team for costing them the game, they won it, he lost it. Because with a competent head coach exercising rudimentary game management skills, at the very least Tennessee would have been in overtime. The vast majority of the time the game would have never gotten to that point.

Tennessee fans appear to be pissed that Jones won't take responsibility for anything

 

[ND NYC]

want them back on the schedule for a home and home...had great time up on Rocky Top!
fans weren't as bad as I thought theyd be in fact were very hospitable

 

[Irish YJ]

want them back on the schedule for a home and home...had great time up on Rocky Top!
fans weren't as bad as I thought theyd be in fact were very hospitable

Me too. Fans were great, and had a great time with the RV crowd post game. That's why I have a little UT love in my heart.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Not quite sure where the UT love is coming from. A very average team at best with an average coach/good recruiter at the lead. This is a team with a very bad schedule as its only hope of getting any remote attention. Exactly three teams on the schedule that will break .500. Maybe four with Kentucky who wont be much over .500.

I get it you like UT but man really? A couple of years of very good recruiting wont make up for a culture of losing football.

I actually don't think Tennessee is nearly as good as many here are claiming, but I wouldn't listen to a word of what is written by the poster above me. This is the same ND 'fan' who said:

1. Kizer's bomb to Fuller to win the Virginia game was actually a hail mary (LOL).

2. Kizer is not a Div 1 QB. He could have easily backtracked and said he meant that he doesn't think Kizer isn't good enough to win at ND or even good enough for ND, but nope...he truly feels that Kizer shouldn't even have a D1 scholly. Think about that.

3. Great teams like Alabama and OSU never struggle against mediocre teams. Huh?

4. Georgia Tech would blow out ND, and ND had no chance of winning the game (I thought we'd lose too until I psyched myself up by Thursday, so I get it, but no chance to win?).

Sad thing is, it's a discussion board but he refuses to come back and discuss his 'hot takes'. Take whatever he says with a massive grain of salt.

 

[Cackalacky]

Eliminator Week 4: Tennessee Volunteers bow out with dramatic loss



Very Entertaining Article where Butch Jones pretty much gets ripped a new one.
Butch Jones Needs a Common Sense Coach | FOX Sports

Lots of great quotes in this article, but this is my favorite



Tennessee fans appear to be pissed that Jones won't take responsibility for anything

I agree. That loss falls squarely on Butch. The coaching in he 4th quarter was mind bottling

 

[Irish YJ]

I agree. That loss falls squarely on Butch. The coaching in he 4th quarter was mind bottling

Yup, and 4Q coaching against OK wasn't much better.

Doubt he's on the hot seat right now, but if he isn't challenging for an East championship next year, the seat will start to get warm.

 

[BobbyMac]

Not quite sure where the UT love is coming from. A very average team at best with an average coach/good recruiter at the lead. This is a team with a very bad schedule as its only hope of getting any remote attention. Exactly three teams on the schedule that will break .500. Maybe four with Kentucky who wont be much over .500.

I get it you like UT but man really? A couple of years of very good recruiting wont make up for a culture of losing football.

I actually don't think Tennessee is nearly as good as many here are claiming, but I wouldn't listen to a word of what is written by the poster above me. This is the same ND 'fan' who said:

1. Kizer's bomb to Fuller to win the Virginia game was actually a hail mary (LOL).

2. Kizer is not a Div 1 QB. He could have easily backtracked and said he meant that he doesn't think Kizer isn't good enough to win at ND or even good enough for ND, but nope...he truly feels that Kizer shouldn't even have a D1 scholly. Think about that.

3. Great teams like Alabama and OSU never struggle against mediocre teams. Huh?

4. Georgia Tech would blow out ND, and ND had no chance of winning the game (I thought we'd lose too until I psyched myself up by Thursday, so I get it, but no chance to win?).

Sad thing is, it's a discussion board but he refuses to come back and discuss his 'hot takes'. Take whatever he says with a massive grain of salt.

So... even though you agree with the poster on the current topic, you still felt compelled to bring up some other random beef to make him look bad?

 

[Ndaccountant]

Yup, and 4Q coaching against OK wasn't much better.

Doubt he's on the hot seat right now, but if he isn't challenging for an East championship next year, the seat will start to get warm.

Here is the thing with me......he may not be on the hot seat, but boy is he sure coaching like it. If the pressure just started to be turned up, cannot imagine what he will be like when it really kicks in.

Also, the SEC schedule for them was set up this year. UGA at home along with Arkansas to go with a down UF and South Carolina. The biggest hurdle outside of Bama was probably playing at Kentucky the week after that Bama game. Not sure it's going to set up any better than that. If they simply beat UGA and UF, they could have easily won the East.

Looking forward, in 2016 they swap out the home game vs Arky with a road game @ A&M. In 2016 they get LSU instead of A&M. Playing Bama and either A&M or LSU is going to make it VERY difficult to win the East. Simply put, his team may have been a year younger than what he needed, the schedule set up nicely for him and he needed to strike. Not sure he will last long enough if it's win the East or bust going forward with their conference schedule.

 

[Irish YJ]

Here is the thing with me......he may not be on the hot seat, but boy is he sure coaching like it. If the pressure just started to be turned up, cannot imagine what he will be like when it really kicks in.

Also, the SEC schedule for them was set up this year. UGA at home along with Arkansas to go with a down UF and South Carolina. The biggest hurdle outside of Bama was probably playing at Kentucky the week after that Bama game. Not sure it's going to set up any better than that. If they simply beat UGA and UF, they could have easily won the East.

Looking forward, in 2016 they swap out the home game vs Arky with a road game @ A&M. In 2016 they get LSU instead of A&M. Playing Bama and either A&M or LSU is going to make it VERY difficult to win the East. Simply put, his team may have been a year younger than what he needed, the schedule set up nicely for him and he needed to strike. Not sure he will last long enough if it's win the East or bust going forward with their conference schedule.

Long shot, but if they can beat UGA, they are right back in the hunt for the East. Florida could easily drop vs MISS, @MIZ, @LSU, UGA. Pretty confident they lose to Miss and @LSU. If UT beats UGA, could lose to Bama next week, or @FL (Typically a close one even when one of them is down). Stretch, but I don't think anyone would be shocked if Bama beat them. Richt just seems to always lay a turd on big games.

 

[Ndaccountant]

Long shot, but if they can beat UGA, they are right back in the hunt for the East. Florida could easily drop vs MISS, @MIZ, @LSU, UGA. Pretty confident they lose to Miss and @LSU. If UT beats UGA, could lose to Bama next week, or @FL (Typically a close one even when one of them is down). Stretch, but I don't think anyone would be shocked if Bama beat them. Richt just seems to always lay a turd on big games.

I wouldn't be shocked at all with UGA losing to Bama....I am expecting it. I would be surprised at this point if Tennessee is better than 2-2 in their next four. I really think they are in trouble when they play in Lexington on Halloween. They are going to pour everything they have into that Bama game and the week after will be a letdown.

 

[PANDFAN]

OUCH!

OUCH!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tennessee has signed 4 top receiver prospects under Butch Jones.

No <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Vols?src=hash">#Vols</a> receiver is averaging 3 catches or 35 yards/game. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wow?src=hash">#wow</a></p>— SB Nation Recruiting (@SBNRecruiting) <a href="https://twitter.com/SBNRecruiting/status/649318355673989121">September 30, 2015</a></blockquote>
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