Russia Invades Ukraine

[irishog77]

Good philosophy if you can get it to work, but not everyone wants to be a friend. There's no reason you can't be punitive to the point they get rid of Putin, then start the friendship and help them prosper.

Russia's culture and economy make them much more resistant to sanctions than most. Would be great if it happens, but I wouldn't count on overthrowing Putin by turning Russia into a pariah state. We've gotta have other avenues.

This.

Getting rid of putin doesn't offer any type of guarantee of building a great relationship with the new regime. Even if we were to install our own guy to help implement "regime change."

It's not like russia has a good history of leaders or implementing systemic changes in their style of government either. Their geography, history, and culture is truly unique as well. It is damn hard for them not to be isolationists/lone wolf types, as well as to integrate themselves into their surrounding cultures and vice-versa.

 

[calvegas04]

There are talks of russia nationalizing businesses that are closing due to sanctions, as well as putting rations of food. Sounds like they may be going full commie again.

 

[calvegas04]

More war crimes from russia

 

[SouthSideChiDomer]

Or push them into the arms of China, thereby forcing us to defend on two fronts for the foreseeable future.

On the other hand, it could help to build a coalition against China. Too many countries were neutral at best towards China because they were not at direct threat and the economic interests were too great. China spewing Russia's lies and turning a blind eye to the war crimes the whole world (minus Russians) is watching could really cement China as an enemy rather than the partner so many saw it as. So while it might drive Russia to China's side, it might also drive the rest of the developed world to our side, which would be a relative win for us.

 

[Irish#1]

This.

Getting rid of putin doesn't offer any type of guarantee of building a great relationship with the new regime. Even if we were to install our own guy to help implement "regime change."

It's not like russia has a good history of leaders or implementing systemic changes in their style of government either. Their geography, history, and culture is truly unique as well. It is damn hard for them not to be isolationists/lone wolf types, as well as to integrate themselves into their surrounding cultures and vice-versa.

Agree you don't know what you'll get, but since Stalin, Putin seems to be the worst of the lot.

 

[Cackalacky2.0]

They did it again lol

 

[StPaul_Irish]

Agree you don't know what you'll get, but since Stalin, Putin seems to be the worst of the lot.

Sure, but he is the Devil we know. something to be said for that.

 

[GATTACA!]

Whiskey calculating the cost of war.

 

[Ndaccountant]

On the other hand, it could help to build a coalition against China. Too many countries were neutral at best towards China because they were not at direct threat and the economic interests were too great. China spewing Russia's lies and turning a blind eye to the war crimes the whole world (minus Russians) is watching could really cement China as an enemy rather than the partner so many saw it as. So while it might drive Russia to China's side, it might also drive the rest of the developed world to our side, which would be a relative win for us.

Who exactly is going to turn on China now that wasn't already skeptical to begin with? Japan and Australia were crystal clear in their views on Taiwan. India less so, but their response to the LAC shows they are not willing to back down. But I don't think India is ever going to do anything against China unless their own security is at risk. In other words, they don't care what China does as long as they don't mess with LAC. South Korea? Nope, nothing changes. Everyone else in the Indo-Pacific same as South Korea.

The EU has already been expanding relations with Taiwan last year (EU-Taiwan relations: MEPs push for stronger partnership | News | European Parliament).

The coalition that would be against China is no different today than it was 6 months ago and anything Russia does or doesn't do with China will unlikely change that.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey calculating the cost of war.

I didn't go to law school because I was good at math. But you seem like a pretty numerate guy. What does the math look like on nuclear war? I've got closed toe shoes on at the moment, so I can't count that high.

 

[Ndaccountant]

I didn't go to law school because I was good at math. But you seem like a pretty numerate guy. What does the math look like on nuclear war? I've got closed toe shoes on at the moment, so I can't count that high.

I don't doubt that for a moment.

 

[Rockin’Irish]

I’ve read a couple of new articles where Russia (and China) are pushing a narrative where the USA has been collaborating with Ukraine to develop biological and other military weapon technologies. This work has been allegedly ongoing at labs within Ukraine. I guess in reality we don’t know what the US government has been up to in Ukraine but this does sound like more misdirection to justify additional military actions on behalf of Russia. A bit surprised that China would make the same accusations.

 

[greyhammer90]

I understand the desire to punish Putin, but a similar outlook was a big reason why WWII followed the Treaty of Versaille. Would much rather look toward minimizing suffering and death instead.

Hey, you dropped this

READ 👏 ANOTHER 👏 WAR

 

[Ndaccountant]

I’ve read a couple of new articles where Russia (and China) are pushing a narrative where the USA has been collaborating with Ukraine to develop biological and other military weapon technologies. This work has been allegedly ongoing at labs within Ukraine. I guess in reality we don’t know what the US government has been up to in Ukraine but this does sound like more misdirection to justify additional military actions on behalf of Russia. A bit surprised that China would make the same accusations.

Wuhan.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I’ve read a couple of new articles where Russia (and China) are pushing a narrative where the USA has been collaborating with Ukraine to develop biological and other military weapon technologies. This work has been allegedly ongoing at labs within Ukraine. I guess in reality we don’t know what the US government has been up to in Ukraine but this does sound like more misdirection to justify additional military actions on behalf of Russia. A bit surprised that China would make the same accusations.

I wouldn't assume it's misdirection at this point. Nuland's recent testimony before the Senate was pretty damning.

 

[IrishBoognish]

I’ve read a couple of new articles where Russia (and China) are pushing a narrative where the USA has been collaborating with Ukraine to develop biological and other military weapon technologies. This work has been allegedly ongoing at labs within Ukraine. I guess in reality we don’t know what the US government has been up to in Ukraine but this does sound like more misdirection to justify additional military actions on behalf of Russia. A bit surprised that China would make the same accusations.

This almost exact thing started on 4chan last week. (Don't ask how I know...lol)


The only difference/addition is the 4chan tale had the US eventually blaming the Russians for blowing up the labs, people getting sick, and the US using it as cover for all the upcoming "vaccine side-effects".

Weird how the dark corners of the internet can hatch insane shit and it eventually gets parroted as "just asking questions" or worse in regular company.

I remember a pizza joint and a long form birth certificate and blood drinking pedophiles that all came from the same place.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Hey, you dropped this

Excuse me. It's WWII that is the Harry Potter of wars. I referenced WWI, which is a deeper cut and much more respectable.

 

[GATTACA!]

I’ve read a couple of new articles where Russia (and China) are pushing a narrative where the USA has been collaborating with Ukraine to develop biological and other military weapon technologies. This work has been allegedly ongoing at labs within Ukraine. I guess in reality we don’t know what the US government has been up to in Ukraine but this does sound like more misdirection to justify additional military actions on behalf of Russia. A bit surprised that China would make the same accusations.

That's ridiculous. Everyone knows the best biological weapons come from Wuhan.

 

[NorthDakota]

Excuse me. It's WWII that is the Harry Potter of wars. I referenced WWI, which is a deeper cut and much more respectable.

If we all had a nickel for every time a Harry Potter fan invoked Voldemort or Hitler on Twitter...ND's NIL money would end college football.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Excuse me. It's WWII that is the Harry Potter of wars. I referenced WWI, which is a deeper cut and much more respectable.

Dude you gotta reference the OG Crimean War and how the French, who lost the most troops of the coalition, wanted the war to end of lenient terms for Russia, whereas the British and Ottomans wanted to fuck Russia right up.

I think Lax is totally on the money that giving up Crimea and Russia-majority eastern areas isn't the big deal, but demilitarization is a nonstarter if you are Ukraine. You don't get to beat the shit out of a country and then suggest you call it even and go the Finlandization route.

 

[NorthDakota]

Dude you gotta reference the OG Crimean War and how the French, who lost the most troops of the coalition, wanted the war to end of lenient terms for Russia, whereas the British and Ottomans wanted to fuck Russia right up.

I think Lax is totally on the money that giving up Crimea and Russia-majority eastern areas isn't the big deal, but demilitarization is a nonstarter if you are Ukraine. You don't get to beat the shit out of a country and then suggest you call it even and go the Finlandization route.

That's very easy to say as an American where there has never been at risk of getting rocked once... much less twice.

Whether it's the right thing or the wrong thing... who knows. Would be a risk... but having hundreds of thousands of Russian troops surrounding your cities... no allies....etc might have then considering it.

 

[Blazers46]

Couldn’t the Bidens just sign over their Burisma checks?

House passes bill offering nearly $14 billion in aid to Ukraine

The House voted Wednesday evening in favor of a bipartisan appropriations package with a price tag in the trillions after months of stalling and debate, and as Congress faced a Friday deadline to approve government funding or risk a shutdown.

www.foxnews.com

 

[IrishLax]

Horseshoe theory on full display.

 

[drayer54]

Horseshoe theory on full display.

I would have voted yes for the bill without reading it if I saw the breakdown on who voted yay/nay. Outside of Massie, that's a special group.

 

[Rogue219]

I would have voted yes for the bill without reading it if I saw the breakdown on who voted yay/nay. Outside of Massie, that's a special group.

I think he lumps in there just fine.

 

[BrownerandFry]

Putin has probably prepared for immediate sanctions. It will hurt him in the long run, but it is doubtful that's going to stop him just yet.

Hit them all hard regardless.

Vladimir Putin THOUGHT he prepared for sanctions.

But there is one problem, and it is a recurring theme that redounds in many areas of human endeavor.

"When you THINK you're the smartest guy in the room, you BETTER be the smartest guy in the room."

Swinnnnnnnnnnggggg and a miss on the sanctions, Vlad!

 

[drayer54]

Huge balls. Huge

 

[TorontoGold]

Huge balls. Huge

This is an incredibly ignorant question but - so they took out the ignite contraption, the rest of the bomb - is it ok to move once the piece has been taken out? Are they out of the woods?

 

[BrownerandFry]

Who exactly is going to turn on China now that wasn't already skeptical to begin with? Japan and Australia were crystal clear in their views on Taiwan. India less so, but their response to the LAC shows they are not willing to back down. But I don't think India is ever going to do anything against China unless their own security is at risk. In other words, they don't care what China does as long as they don't mess with LAC. South Korea? Nope, nothing changes. Everyone else in the Indo-Pacific same as South Korea.

The EU has already been expanding relations with Taiwan last year (EU-Taiwan relations: MEPs push for stronger partnership | News | European Parliament).

The coalition that would be against China is no different today than it was 6 months ago and anything Russia does or doesn't do with China will unlikely change that.

China and Russia are a false conflation.

This is an incredibly ignorant question but - so they took out the ignite contraption, the rest of the bomb - is it ok to move once the piece has been taken out? Are they out of the woods?

not my MOS, I was 11 Bravo

But I bet there are some EOD vets, some police and firemen who have been on bomb squads on this site.

 

[Irish du Nord]

Horseshoe theory on full display.

Geez that’s an unlikeable list of people