Rumored Violations

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scUM Hater

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Bogtrotter07

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Not to interrupt, but does anyone else find it interesting that Hardy can come back this year? And Hardy alone?
 
Emcee77

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Bogtrotter07 said:
Not to interrupt, but does anyone else find it interesting that Hardy can come back this year? And Hardy alone?
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TP posted this in the Hardy thread:

IrishTP said:
From what I heard from a good source. All the players got a 2 semester suspension, but had the option of when to take it. In the case of Hardy, he is close to graduating, so he chose to finish this semester in hopes of accomplishing that and then will look to transfer to play somewhere else for a fifth year by all accounts.

As for his role on the team, I think he will be basically running scout team and just getting/keeping himself in football shape. He gets to be around his friends and participate but wont play this season, pretty similar to the Josh Atkinson situation and both players are sticking around to get that degree but will play their 5th year somewhere else.

I could be wrong on his situation with the team, but that is what someone that would know more than I do informed me. So it might not be 100% accurate but pretty close.
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May shed some light on it.
 
Whiskeyjack

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IrishBlood81 said:
Are we nearing the death of this thread? Could it all be over before Saturday?? What kind of service would we do for such a thread? Who would organize the funeral and casket?
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Whiskeyjack said:
Bullet to the head and an unmarked grave in the backyard. Rest in pieces.
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As promised, thread is now locked. We're not likely to learn anything more about this "scandal", and the fates of the Frozen Five have all been announced now. Further updates can be posted in their respective profiles.
 
longliveautrydenson

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Looks like Robertson will be back on campus next weekend. I feel like our history of kicking kids off the team for academic issues has hurt us here. Hopefully, we have a solid strategy to reassure not just Robertson but also other guys like King that we've put measures into place to ensure that stuff doesn't happen again.
 
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longliveautrydenson said:
Looks like Robertson will be back on campus next weekend. I feel like our ]history of kicking kids off the team for academic issues has hurt us here. Hopefully, we have a solid strategy to reassure not just Robertson but also other guys like King that we've put measures into place to ensure that stuff doesn't happen again.
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You're acting like this I a disease we are trying to keep away....the people involved didn't just accidentally stumble into the academic dishonesty...the only thing ND is guilty of is actually doing something most other colleges or universities won't do..
 
yankeeND

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PANDFAN said:
You're acting like this I a disease we are trying to keep away....the people involved didn't just accidentally stumble into the academic dishonesty...the only thing ND is guilty of is actually doing something most other colleges or universities won't do..
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Yeah, it is kind of getting ridiculous, this mantra that we should just do like other schools and turn the other cheek is kind of mind boggling. ND did what they should have, though at the time it was frustrating, we can't be the same because we are not. It's not an elitist perspective, but rather one that will not accept losing sight of who we are. If kids don't want to go to a school because they will be held accountable then they are the wrong fit anyways. It doesn't make them bad, it just means they are after something else. Reflecting on these instances of lapse in judgment, these kids will be better for it. That's why they are called lessons. Great insights my panda brother.
 
Cali_domer

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longliveautrydenson said:
Looks like Robertson will be back on campus next weekend. I feel like our history of kicking kids off the team for academic issues has hurt us here. Hopefully, we have a solid strategy to reassure not just Robertson but also other guys like King that we've put measures into place to ensure that stuff doesn't happen again.
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We have a great policy...It's called not cheating. :)
 
longliveautrydenson

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PANDFAN said:
You're acting like this I a disease we are trying to keep away....the people involved didn't just accidentally stumble into the academic dishonesty...the only thing ND is guilty of is actually doing something most other colleges or universities won't do..
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I said we should put measures in place to ensure these types of things don't happen again. Specifically, better oversight over the academic assistants to make it clear what is and is not acceptable assistance. A player cheating on a test is not avoidable, a player getting too much help with papers is something we can prevent.

Also, we could institute some kind of measures that don't leave 5 players publicly in limbo for weeks and weeks on end. It was a horrible spectacle on our end, particularly as BK was forced to answer questions he didn't know the answers to for the first 3/4 of the season. Do you really think there's nothing we could have done better in regards to the Frozen Five situation, from a PR standpoint, from an academic assistance standpoint, and from an equity standpoint? I think it made us look ridiculous, byzantine, out-dated and whatever else you want to call it. Any moral points we scored by upholding our academic integrity were completely eclipsed by the public spectacle we put our own student athletes and their families through.
 
yankeeND

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longliveautrydenson said:
I said we should put measures in place to ensure these types of things don't happen again. Specifically, better oversight over the academic assistants to make it clear what is and is not acceptable assistance. A player cheating on a test is not avoidable, a player getting too much help with papers is something we can prevent.

Also, we could institute some kind of measures that don't leave 5 players publicly in limbo for weeks and weeks on end. It was a horrible spectacle on our end, particularly as BK was forced to answer questions he didn't know the answers to for the first 3/4 of the season. Do you really think there's nothing we could have done better in regards to the Frozen Five situation, from a PR standpoint, from an academic assistance standpoint, and from an equity standpoint? I think it made us look ridiculous, byzantine, out-dated and whatever else you want to call it. Any moral points we scored by upholding our academic integrity were completely eclipsed by the public spectacle we put our own student athletes and their families through.
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I agree that the situation could have been handled better publicly, but the school is in a tough spot as well. They are limited on what information they can even share. They were not even allowed to explain to the parents and that is the law not a ND policy. It's not always in black and white. You make good points though, and I would definitely be for ways that shine the light in such a way that is less negative in the light of public perception.
 
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yankeeND said:
Yeah, it is kind of getting ridiculous, this mantra that we should just do like other schools and turn the other cheek is kind of mind boggling. ND did what they should have, though at the time it was frustrating, we can't be the same because we are not. It's not an elitist perspective, but rather one that will not accept losing sight of who we are. If kids don't want to go to a school because they will be held accountable then they are the wrong fit anyways. It doesn't make them bad, it just means they are after something else. Reflecting on these instances of lapse in judgment, these kids will be better for it. That's why they are called lessons. Great insights my panda brother.
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Didn't Jesus say turn the other cheek? Isn't this a Catholic university? You're ok with the way these kids were treated for 6 nonths?
 
yankeeND

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Irish Storm said:
Didn't Jesus say turn the other cheek? Isn't this a Catholic university? You're ok with the way these kids were treated for 6 nonths?
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Didn't the kids come out and say that they were treated fairly?

To add to that, nobody said they would not be forgiven or even denied a second chance. Some of them have been given multiple chances. We still need to remember that there are consequences for our actions. I don't remember Jesus saying that we can just do whatever we want and everything will be cool. What's the point of things like confession if he doesn't care what we do. Right is right, wrong is wrong, and bacon is delicious.
 
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Irish YJ

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Irish Storm said:
Didn't Jesus say turn the other cheek? Isn't this a Catholic university? You're ok with the way these kids were treated for 6 nonths?
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It means forgive. I does not mean that consequences to rules and law are forgotten.
Geesh dude.
 
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ThePiombino said:
Turn the other cheek does NOT mean to turn a blind eye to academic fraud.
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A girl proof reading your paper is not academic fraud. Had she written it for them, then that would be.

I think ND really went over the top here. Maybe they panicked?

The players and their families sure didn't sound like they were being treated fairly during the process via twitter. There was even talk of legal action was there not?

In the end, even ND admitted that their honor code system was outdated and took far too long. I love ND but don't have to love everything they do.
 
Prof K

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Irish Storm said:
Didn't Jesus say turn the other cheek? Isn't this a Catholic university? You're ok with the way these kids were treated for 6 nonths?
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Actually I am OK with it. It is regrettable, but the real regret is that they apparently were involved in academic dishonesty, not that they were punished for it. The bottom line is that universities must treat their scholar athletes like all other students. If you don't dismiss athletes, you can't dismiss others. However, I am the academic dean at a Catholic university, possibly I am biased.

As to the Catholic angel, Yes, Jesus forgave, but he also declared "go and sin no more." Believing in reconciliation requires true remorse and in many cases, it is the punishment that leads to the understanding that creates remorse and thus forgiveness. Thus, my understanding of Catholic teaching is not that punishment is unnecessary, but rather that the goal of punishment is more reform. Corporal punishment should thus be avoided, because it eliminates the possibility of moral reform.
 
Prof K

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Irish Storm said:
A girl proof reading your paper is not academic fraud. Had she written it for them, then that would be.

I think ND really went over the top here. Maybe they panicked?

The players and their families sure didn't sound like they were being treated fairly during the process via twitter. There was even talk of legal action was there not?

In the end, even ND admitted that their honor code system was outdated and took far too long. I love ND but don't have to love everything they do.
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I don't love everything Notre Dame does either. However, we need to keep in mind that we haven't heard both sides of the story. Friends of those accused might say that they were dismissed because someone edited their paper. If they corrected small grammatical errors, I agree, it wasn't academic dishonestly. However, if the editor suggested new sentences, rewrote paragraphs, or rewrote the paper, then yes, it is academic fraud at my university as well.
 
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