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Bogtrotter07
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Is film and TV part of the Mendoza school of business?
Rumored Violations
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Is film and TV part of the Mendoza school of business?
dublinirish
Everestt Gholstonson
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KVR is doing the film, theatre and tv studies thing no?
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FTT is Arts and Letters. If plagiarism is the issue here, an A&L class is almost certainly involved.
gkIrish
Greek God
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Departmental Grading Guidelines
Not challenging your assertion FYI, just pointing out that there are a lot of curved classes.
JughedJones
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The only thing that bothers me is the 'vacating wins part.' Everything else, assuming they have found evidence of cheating that involves multiple parties, should be investigated thoroughly. It's part of the reason I root ND.
It's the scum and villainy of the internet, (including a few of us on IE) that piss me off. Wanting to plaster some girl's name and picture all over the tronz for something we think she did is disgraceful. Hating on the admin for taking cheating seriously is disgraceful.
Maybe they shouldn't have scheduled a presser so soon, maybe they shouldn't be talking about vacating wins, but I am really happy that the academics and football decisions are separated so thoroughly (to the point of animosity) at this school.
If everybody did it like this, we'd be in a better place.
It's the scum and villainy of the internet, (including a few of us on IE) that piss me off. Wanting to plaster some girl's name and picture all over the tronz for something we think she did is disgraceful. Hating on the admin for taking cheating seriously is disgraceful.
Maybe they shouldn't have scheduled a presser so soon, maybe they shouldn't be talking about vacating wins, but I am really happy that the academics and football decisions are separated so thoroughly (to the point of animosity) at this school.
If everybody did it like this, we'd be in a better place.
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Looks like most Mendoza programs curve to a B+. Wish I'd known that when my business bro roommates were bitching about how hard their classes were.
Emcee77
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I don't even really understand the notion of vacating wins. I can't unlive the memory of the 2012 season. It happened. I watched ND win those games. You can reduce the number in our alltime wins column if you want, but it's completely meaningless to me.
autry_denson
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Even if grades are not explicitly determined on a curve, at this point in higher ed the grades for virtually every single class will be based on relative performance. Professors have tremendous pressure to end each course with an approximately normal distribution of grades. There are classes where students are graded by absolute performance, without considering the overall distribution, but they are extremely rare at this point.
JughedJones
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I'm with you. It seems almost spiteful and a lot petty to me.
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It's particularly meaningless if we're only scratching them out in our private ledger, because the NCAA sure as hell isn't going to be vacating any of our wins. Seems like some factions within the administration are looking to make a statement here, which is very worrisome. Individual athletes and the football program as a whole suffer needlessly in these sorts of internal power struggles.
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I can't speak for other schools within ND, but I know for certain that's not the case in Arts and Letters.
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Bogtrotter07
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As long as someone doesn't take advantage of that autonomy! There has to be oversight. Someone has to determine when to call the ball if the charges are skewed.
Chances are it wasn't unfounded. But if unfounded accusations could be the basis of a major investigation like this, with no proper oversight, it groups this with much more serious historical examples, instead of apart. (Witch hunts, Inquisition, Communist and un-American activities hearings, etc.)
Again. I have no agenda or leanings. I am in a wait and see mode. Check that. I think the one internal ND leak, the NCAA leaks, and the reporters should all be shot out of general principle, but I am just a fun loving guy.
zelezo vlk
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Pat Forde just on SVP and Russillo with speculation about consequences including BK losing his job? What a dummy.
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Wait, so someone from ND did leak the story?
IRISHDODGER
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Forde is still mad that ND fired Willingham.
Sherm Sticky
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Dafuq is going on here...
autry_denson
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I don't teach at ND, but I'd be shocked if grading is different than it is in all other top tier schools. We'd need someone on faculty to weigh in - students rarely know the full distribution of grades unless the professor reveals what the distribution looks like (it's now illegal to actually post all grades publicly with any kind of identifier attached to it, including student ID). Again, there is no formal policy indicating that students are to be graded on a curve. But in practice, professors look at the performance of students on a given assignment or exam, figure out what the range of the distribution is, and place students within that distribution. Same for final grades. It is possible to depart from this model, but professors who do so face enormous subtle pressures to fall in line. Maybe it's different at ND, but I seriously doubt it. Gaining an advantage through cheating almost certainly means you are altering the distribution of grades.
Ndaccountant
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Honest question here......how far fetched is it?
The reason I ask is b/c it's painfully obvious there are members of ND's administration and BOT that have a severe disdain towards the program. Let's say all four are ultimately expelled and ND vacates victories. This would add to the already multiple incidents that have happened on his watch. Most would take them for what they are. But, if you were a person hell bent on reprioritizing university initiatives, your panties would be moist. So yeah, I could see that being a potential outcome no matter how asinine that seems today. Who in there right mind would have sat back a month ago and thought creative homework editing would lead to ND wiping 2012 off the books? If that is possible, that I don't know of anything that is impossible.
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koonja
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What the fucking fuck is going on here.
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zelezo vlk
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Everything in engineering was curved. It's what made it hell.
I once pulled a very solid A in solid mechanics... so solid that I didn't study for the final and used my time elsewhere. At a 98% it was virtually impossible to drop my grade below the 92 that the syllabus said I needed for an A.
Then I got a B+ as my final grade, and the professor explains that the class did "so well" that he had to adjust grades down. I raised hell over this and what they came back with was "the grading scale on the syllabus was only a suggestion."
How does this relate to the "scandal"? I'm not sure. But fuck Michigan.
zelezo vlk
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I think that vacating the victories is much closer to isolating BK and leading him to take the first good offer he will be given. I think it was Lax who mentioned it and then got me panicking.
Unless we think that a majority of the BoT would prefer the end of the football program, a separation of Coach Kelly and ND will not come from the University. Coach Kelly will initiate the separation and with good reason.
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In general, I'm extremely skeptical that these players are getting a fair shake. I think the proof is in the pudding that this is a concentrated effort to inflict as much harm on the football program as possible... there aren't many other reasonable explanations for why you'd dig through thousands of emails or vacate wins just because you feel like it.
zelezo vlk
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I'll check the podcast later, but that's not how I heard Forde.
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tussin
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Agreed. Fuck Michigan.
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Yeah... there is no telling where this ultimately ends.
I promise you, BK is taking the next good opportunity that presents itself after this circus. And I don't blame him.
What I really wish is that the names of the people in charge of this witch hunt and combing through the emails would be leaked so they could get a piece of our collective minds.
Booslum31
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I saw guys cheating in college. They had very eloborate schemes and went to extremes to cheat. I would always joke with them that if they were as diligent with studying and worked as hard and as creatively as they did at cheating...they'ld be "A students". I also would make sure that I was one of the last guys in the room when taking a test so all of my frat buddies wouldn't try to sit next to me and scam off my test....more from fear of getting caught than anything holistic. I wasn't a brainiac but I worked my ass off.
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