Quarterback Controversy 2016

BobbyMac

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I think you use whoever doesn't win the starting job (either Malik or DeShone) as the backup, and explain to Wimbush that if he redshirts this year, the team will be his for two whole years rather than one.

Most reporters seem confident that Wimbush is at ND for the long-haul so far as they can tell.

He's not going ANYWHERE. His Mom said it right in front of us, Brandon, Malik and his dad at our table. She said and I quote... "We like this situation and he WILL redshirt next year." She gets what ND is aside from football. She busted her tail through his high school career to put him in place to change his life, his future family's life and their families going forward.
She's a VERY smart person with a well thought out plan...very interesting story of how she came here from Jamaica. Very driven. As interesting as anyone I met in AZ.

.
 

NDohio

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I'm not sure that Meyer did mishandle it. I don't think that Barrett's DUI was his first time driving drunk, and I think his subsequent automotive issues(before the bowl game) just support that supposition. I suspicion that Barrett was even worse, at the beginning of the season, and that is why Meyer started Jones. To send a message to Barrett that he needed to clean up his act off of the field. And I think Barrett probably made a token attempt to appear like he was doing just that. That, coupled with their offensive struggles behind Jones, led Meyer to plug Barrett back in. But once Barrett fell back into the same old habits, it was too late for Meyer to make the switch back to Jones.

That wasn't JT, that was Ezekiel Elliott.

I think Urban mishandled it and I think it's because he made a promise to Jones when talking him out of going to the league after last year.
 

NDVirginia19

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Two things amaze me about the above chart:

2. Holy Tommy Rees. Every time I see something like this, I'm still amazed at what Rees was able to do despite his limitations. He had zero mobility and barely had an arm, and yet he was *barely* behind Golson's total yardage mark. Imagine if you could have put Rees' mind inside of Golson's body... Frankenquarterback would have been a world-beater.

Holy turnover Batman
 

NDRock

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He's not going ANYWHERE. His Mom said it right in front of us, Brandon, Malik and his dad at our table. She said and I quote... "We like this situation and he WILL redshirt next year." She gets what ND is aside from football. She busted her tail through his high school career to put him in place to change his life, his future family's life and their families going forward.
She's a VERY smart person with a well thought out plan...very interesting story of how she came here from Jamaica. Very driven. As interesting as anyone I met in AZ.

.

Great info. Thanks.
 
K

koonja

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He's not going ANYWHERE. His Mom said it right in front of us, Brandon, Malik and his dad at our table. She said and I quote... "We like this situation and he WILL redshirt next year." She gets what ND is aside from football. She busted her tail through his high school career to put him in place to change his life, his future family's life and their families going forward.
She's a VERY smart person with a well thought out plan...very interesting story of how she came here from Jamaica. Very driven. As interesting as anyone I met in AZ.

.

Who the hell are you? Your inside info is dynamite, and your Cali connections? Priceless.
 

woolybug25

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Who the hell are you? Your inside info is dynamite, and your Cali connections? Priceless.

NdNYX.gif
 

TheChosen1

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Interesting take on isd podcast that one quarterback is favored over the other.
 
K

koonja

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Interesting take on isd podcast that one quarterback is favored over the other.

Nothing against Kizer, but there's no way it's not Malik, right? I thought early on Kizer had a little Joe Schmidt in him and loved the limelight. Not to Joe's degree, and I also think those feelings I had died down. But I did think that right away.
 

ulukinatme

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2. Holy Tommy Rees. Every time I see something like this, I'm still amazed at what Rees was able to do despite his limitations. He had zero mobility and barely had an arm, and yet he was *barely* behind Golson's total yardage mark. Imagine if you could have put Rees' mind inside of Golson's body... Frankenquarterback would have been a world-beater.

Holy turnover Batman

Just another reason to be impressed by his numbers.

You guys aren't thinking 4th dimensionally. If Frankenquarterback had Golson's body and Tommy's head he would know the right player to throw to and he would have the arm to get it there on time. He would also be smart enough to tuck the ball when he runs.

I thought this was a pic of Koon. Ha

One of you photoshop nerds needs to make this happen...

I was actually going to photoshop Frankenquarterback yesterday, but I got sidetracked by actual work.
 

IrishLion

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You guys aren't thinking 4th dimensionally. If Frankenquarterback had Golson's body and Tommy's head he would know the right player to throw to and he would have the arm to get it there on time. He would also be smart enough to tuck the ball when he runs.

This is exactly what I meant lol. Most of Tommy's turnovers were because he couldn't create a throwing lane with mobility, or push the ball through deep windows once he analyzed the coverage.

I thought the "holy turnover" comment was just more about his shortcomings. Now I see that it was about combining Golson and Rees' issues.

My respons would have been the same as yours had I realized that lol.
 

stlnd01

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Nothing against Kizer, but there's no way it's not Malik, right? I thought early on Kizer had a little Joe Schmidt in him and loved the limelight. Not to Joe's degree, and I also think those feelings I had died down. But I did think that right away.

I only know what I read around here but Malik seems to be a very impressive young man, going all the way back to when he showed up as an EE and reportedly beat #1 QB recruit Gunner Kiel out of his job (and then the program). Some of the things Kelly has said about him reinforce that idea.
No disrespect to Kizer - who's impressive in his own right - but unless DeShone is very clearly the better quarterback on the field I think Malik probably winds up the guy.
 

Grahambo

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and that one would be?......

As was stated, they don't come out and say it. You can't really get an implication as to which one they are referring to either. The point was that one of the QB's is liked more in the locker room then the other which could give that QB an advantage over the other.

My guess: Zaire > Kizer
My reason: Kizer got too full of himself and didn't study/work as hard as he should've been.

That's 100% guess work on my part though.
 

BobbyMac

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As was stated, they don't come out and say it. You can't really get an implication as to which one they are referring to either. The point was that one of the QB's is liked more in the locker room then the other which could give that QB an advantage over the other.

My guess: Zaire > Kizer
My reason: Kizer got too full of himself and didn't study/work as hard as he should've been.

That's 100% guess work on my part though.

Good guess.

Maybe the only thing separating the two is the whole country music thing.

(Gotta think for a bit if italics are needed or not)
 

JD Irish

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and that one would be?......

They definitely implied it was Zaire because they had just finished talking about how great of a teammate he has been during his injury. Their comment about the team liking one player of the other would make no sense whatsoever unless they were referring to Zaire.
 

ThePiombino

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As was stated, they don't come out and say it. You can't really get an implication as to which one they are referring to either. The point was that one of the QB's is liked more in the locker room then the other which could give that QB an advantage over the other.

My guess: Zaire > Kizer
My reason: Kizer got too full of himself and didn't study/work as hard as he should've been.

That's 100% guess work on my part though.
I understand this is guess work, but what on earth are you basing this on?
 

rocket66

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Quarterback Controversy 2016

I found it interesting at the close of the Showtime series BK went up to Zaire and said "be ready". Zaire responded with "I'll be ready, coach".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

alohagoirish

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Most of the sentiment seems to favor Malik on this thread but i really think some of that flows from disappointment in the way the team finished its last 2 games.

To keep perspective , Kizer was the 15th rated QB in the country , ahead of Conner Cook, Marquise Williams, J T Barret, Paxston Lynch etc, he was the highest ranked freshman in the country, only behind some Top level experienced starters like Mayfield, Watson, Seth Russell, Boynkin etc.

Malik had 2 starts, one was great & one was poor , he was 7/18 when he went out against Virginia , he was in a funk in the away setting and was not responding well to adversity in that game. Kizer came in and went 12/18 with a last second long TD to save the win.

Given Malik's play likely we lose that Virginia game that needed a complete turnaround at QB to pull it out.

Consistency from what we have seen clearly falls to Kizer , Malik had 2 starts, one great against Texas one Poor against Virginia. Kizer played strong against Clemson against terrific adversity , he pulled out the Virginia & Temple game on the last drive (a clear mark of a special QB)--and he ran a great last drive against Stanford that if there was any justice should have won that game too.

Only really bad regular season game for Kizer was BC out of 11 regulars season games, Malik had 2 games and was 50/50 one good one bad.

There seems to be little reason to expect that the Virginia game was an anomaly and would have been his only off performance. Likely 2 or 3 more weak games from Zaire and with our defense that would have translated to losses.

Kizer after a full season should be expected to make that big jump in year two especially after having the strongest season we have had at ND in years for a first year starter.

Where as Malik will have to find his sea legs coming back from injury and knocking off lots of rust.

Malik is the better runner but coming off a serious injury its highly optimistic to expect him to carry the ball 15 times a game like nothing happened.

Kizer has shown a lot-- 15th ranked nationally, leading us to only the second double digit win season in 10 years, he showed poise under pressure with two last second wins, he showed the ability to run and pass and has shown durability taking lots of hits.

Malik is a talented player but Kizer has put himself in great position to have a strong second season. What do we do when Malik has a 7/18 game again in his first three 2016 starts and we lose?

Likability just cannot be a factor in the decision or at least should not.

Malik has seniority in years but not in experience!
 

BobbyMac

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Malik had 2 starts, one was great & one was poor , he was 7/18 when he went out against Virginia , he was in a funk in the away setting and was not responding well to adversity in that game. Kizer came in and went 12/18 with a last second long TD to save the win.

Given Malik's play likely we lose that Virginia game that needed a complete turnaround at QB to pull it out.

Consistency from what we have seen clearly falls to Kizer , Malik had 2 starts, one great against Texas one Poor against Virginia. Kizer played strong against Clemson against terrific adversity , he pulled out the Virginia & Temple game on the last drive (a clear mark of a special QB)--and he ran a great last drive against Stanford that if there was any justice should have won that game too.

Only really bad regular season game for Kizer was BC out of 11 regulars season games, Malik had 2 games and was 50/50 one good one bad.

There seems to be little reason to expect that the Virginia game was an anomaly and would have been his only off performance. Likely 2 or 3 more weak games from Zaire and with our defense that would have translated to losses.

Kizer after a full season should be expected to make that big jump in year two especially after having the strongest season we have had at ND in years for a first year starter.

Where as Malik will have to find his sea legs coming back from injury and knocking off lots of rust.

Malik is the better runner but coming off a serious injury its highly optimistic to expect him to carry the ball 15 times a game like nothing happened.

Kizer has shown a lot-- 15th ranked nationally, leading us to only the second double digit win season in 10 years, he showed poise under pressure with two last second wins, he showed the ability to run and pass and has shown durability taking lots of hits.

Malik is a talented player but Kizer has put himself in great position to have a strong second season. What do we do when Malik has a 7/18 game again in his first three 2016 starts and we lose?

Likability just cannot be a factor in the decision or at least should not.

Malik has seniority in years but not in experience!


Why do so many people remember the UVa game so differently? When Malik got hurt the score was 19-14, it was 2nd and 7 on the UVa 25. Kizer came in, handed the ball of to CJ-P on the first play and he scored a TD. Score was then 26-14.

A few other things you forgot to acknowledge about MZ's bad day. Kelly passed up a FG from the 25yd line and CJ-P was stopped on 4th down. Malik had a 40 yd run to about the 15yd line and Yoon missed a chip shot. Speaking of that run, Malik had 10 carries for @ 90yds. ND wasn't rolling like the UT game but it wasn't that bad. I could easily say had he not have gotten hurt he would've run off 28 straight points because his last 3 drives were TD, missed FG and TD. Right?

The reason it seems most think this is Malik's team is because those around the program get that feeling from those inside the program. I definitely got that feeling in AZ when I was fortunate to spend a couple of days with the team/program at the hotel.

Sometimes numbers don't tell the story. How many times did Magic lead the Lakers in scoring? Isaiah who was the best PG in the East scored more than Magic, did that make him a better PG? If Brady Quinn or Jimmy Clausen were on the '88 NC team, would the team have been better because they put up more numbers than Tony Rice?

What Kizer did this year was great... but so was what Cardale Jones did last year. See where I'm going?


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Grahambo

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I understand this is guess work, but what on earth are you basing this on?

Nothing at all. Just a gun to the head type of a guess. As I listened to the podcast, I couldn't really get a take on who they were referring to. I only guessed Kizer because they would've been around him more during the season then Zaire but again, just completely guesswork.

I reached out to someone to see who/what Frank was talking about and essentially there's nothing to it. Not that Frank was making anything up just that both are liked so..much ado about nothing.
 

arahop

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Barring injury Malik will be the starter next year. I will bet all my vbucks on it. JoJo Black style mic drop.
 

Veritate Duce Progredi

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I believe Kizer is the better passer and Kelly's ideal offense is one with a better passer but....

Malik is competent at both and gives the offense more firepower in the run option portion of the offense. This helps stress the defense and Kelly obviously appreciates that aspect as well.

I'm rooting for both guys to step their game up. We don't need timidity in our QBs, we need fearlessness so hopefully they push each other to greater heights this offseason.

Both appear to be able to control the room, albeit in different ways. Far better problem to have than in years past.
 

GoIrish41

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It might not happen next season, but when Wimbush stepped on the field against UMASS I was sure I was watching ND's next Heisman trophy. Dude has jaw dropping talent. If he learns to settle down a little and begins to develop the confidence that a great ND QB needs to lead the team, he is going to be impossible to keep off the field (or, sadly, in South Bend). I hope he stays focused and isn't frustrated at the lack of an opportunity to earn the starting spot, because I think he may be the best of the three.
 

NDinL.A.

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What Kizer did this year was great... but so was what Cardale Jones did last year. See where I'm going?

Kizer is nothing like Cardale Jones, and the situations are completely different, because Kizer is such a different personality than Cardale (plus BK won't promise Kizer the job like Meyer did).

I can't believe how many ND fans are so dismissive of everything Kizer did this year, especially in the clutch, where is absolutely nails and a proven winner. I love Zaire but Kizer's body of work dwarfs Zaire's and it's not even close.

It should be a fascinating competition and someone will have to earn it with great play, but for me, Kizer will have the slight advantage bc of his play this year and Zaire's propensity of poor practice play.
 

EvilleIrish

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Kizer is nothing like Cardale Jones, and the situations are completely different, because Kizer is such a different personality than Cardale (plus BK won't promise Kizer the job like Meyer did).

I can't believe how many ND fans are so dismissive of everything Kizer did this year, especially in the clutch, where is absolutely nails and a proven winner. I love Zaire but Kizer's body of work dwarfs Zaire's and it's not even close.

It should be a fascinating competition and someone will have to earn it with great play, but for me, Kizer will have the slight advantage bc of his play this year and Zaire's propensity of poor practice play.

I'll be honest, I think it should be Kizer and I'm not really sure it should even be all that close.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Vegas seems to think Zaire will be our starting QB in 2016:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NotreDame?src=hash">#NotreDame</a> QB returning from injury right in the thick of this: <a href="https://t.co/Li8kg9EveE">https://t.co/Li8kg9EveE</a></p>— Eric Hansen (@EHansenNDI) <a href="https://twitter.com/EHansenNDI/status/687127956297281536">January 13, 2016</a></blockquote>
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