Quarterback Controversy 2016

[ab2cmiller]

Kizer between the 20's.

Zaire in the red zone.

Problem solved.

Possibly.

While Kizer has been very good. He's led an offense that is ranked 89th out of 128 teams for Red Zone efficiency. That kind of production should not result in Kizer being automatically the starter next year. I'm not saying that Zaire should be the starter, just that it should be an open competition. I would think Zaire's running ability would be a definite plus in the red zone.

 

[phgreek]

I'll take Kelly at his word...coming into camp MZ is the #1. Then we'll see what happens.

 

[Wild Bill]

Did you see any of DK's big runs? Plenty capable.

MZ is an elite runner from the QB position. He has vision, speed, power and an ability to run the read option. Yeah, DK is capable but he's not elite.

Will he still?

I would think that he would, but that injury could have an affect on this skill.

I haven't heard anything about his recovery. No news is good news, I hope.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Open up the competition. We want the best offensive threat on the field and I can't decisively say that's Kizer. Can anyone?

 

[TheSunIsRising]

the thing is though, what can MZ do that DK can't?

Score in the Red Zone?

In addition to red zone efficiency, another area that DK needs to clean-up that has not been evidenced in games as a problem for MZ (although the sample size is small for Malik) is ball security.

Not advocating for one over the other, but I do buy the argument that it isn't a coronation

 

[arrowryan]

Play both. They both know the playbook well and they each bring something different to the offense. You don't let talent collect dust on the sideline

 

[Irish Glory]

While Kizer definitely had a great year and no doubt exceeded my expectations, I think the qb competition in the spring will be open, both in name and essence. Kizer threw a lot of beautiful deep balls this year, but I thought was often inaccurate throwing both screen passes and intermediate passes to the sidelines. It seemed that on the majority of bubble screens we ran, the receiver had to turn and spin to catch the ball, losing all his momentum. On intermediate length passes to the sideline, he frequently threw off his back foot and bounced the ball in to receivers.

Then there is also the play at the end of the first half against Stanford. While we can definitely call it a freshman blunder and say he will know better next year, I'm not sure if Kizer has better awareness as a quarterback than Malik (actually not sure, would have to listen to BK press conferences or really watch a lot of tape). If Malik, can improve in the passing game, and is still a better runner after the ankle injury, I don't see how you can count him out, especially with his leadership and competitiveness. That being said, I don't believe this problem is a bad one to have, especially the way injuries have been going lately.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

This will be the first time in 5 years where BK says the 'open competition' like he says every year, only this will be the first time we can't predict with 100% accuracy who the starter will actually be.

Yep, well said. First time there will be active competition and that discounts BW, who'll be itching to get some time on the field as well.

If I had to put money on it, we'll see 85/15 Kizer/Zaire as Lion said. Kizer marching down the field and Zaire used on a few plays to pressure the defense.

In 14, I wanted Kelly to split reps because I didn't believe there would be a clear #1 but I believe this competition will give Kelly a clear frontrunner.

My money is on Kizer. He's had a phenomenal year and he's still learning. Anyone who can step into such a difficult situation and get their bearings straight and produce the way he did will be up for the challenge this spring.

I think Kizer is the better passer and that's what Kelly ultimately wants. I also think Kizer is the better pro prospect, assuming we see continued growth.

 

[arrowryan]

Open up the competition. We want the best offensive threat on the field and I can't decisively say that's Kizer. Can anyone?

He's shown multiple times that he is a better thrower than Zaire (at least IMO) and he showed against Temple and Stanford that he can make huge plays with his legs

 

[IrishFanJMercy]

Here is what I predict. Kelly opens the QB competition up. I could see Zaire winning the job back because of his leadership and emotion to wanting to win. I think we roll with a two QB system next year. Kizer plays until we get into the red zone then we move to Zaire. Zaire is a better decision maker and is smarter with ball control. I think after the season Zaire transfers and plays his 5th year out somewhere else. It wouldn't make sense for him to transfer now because he would have to sit out again. Wimbush redshirts even though I think he will be the best QB out of the 3.

 

[Nothingman]

A little off topic and I realize the season isn't over, but is anyone really disappointed that Wimbush's redshirt gone burned for approximately 20 snaps of mop up duty?

 

[koonja]

Changing QBs in the redzone, to me, is a terrible idea. Talk about throwing off any rhythm you might have had.

 

[GoIrish41]

A little off topic and I realize the season isn't over, but is anyone really disappointed that Wimbush's redshirt gone burned for approximately 20 snaps of mop up duty?

Yep. Some insist he will take it this year but one never knows.

 

[irishfan]

I hope it is open. I was as impressed as anyone with Kizer, but there is a reason why MZ was the starter originally and why he seemingly was one of the leaders on the team prior to his injury. I don't think anyone can really say definitively that Kizer was doing things the final 10 games that Zaire wouldn't have been able to do.

MZ at a very minimum can add something to the run game and our red zone offense can't get any worse.

And if it comes down to Kizer being miles ahead of Zaire, then I'd still rather have Zaire do the short-yardage QB runs.

 

[Nothingman]

Yep. Some insist he will take it this year but one never knows.

Hope you are right, but if MZ or DK gets injured (God forbid) then we are right back in the same situation as this year.

 

[BeauBenken]

Kizer between the 20's.

Zaire in the red zone.

Problem solved.

Yup.

Changing QBs in the redzone, to me, is a terrible idea. Talk about throwing off any rhythm you might have had.

Rhythm my ass. If we were going no huddle or hurry up, sure, but everyone always talks about this rhythm crap and it's really just poor execution. I have literally swapped QBs every play before (coached with a 1A, 1B system for part of my season) and drove down the field. If the team is coached to handle a dual quarterback system, they'll be fine.

If we're in shotgun at the 5, it's Malik I want every down, not Kizer.

 

[NDohio]

Changing QBs in the redzone, to me, is a terrible idea. Talk about throwing off any rhythm you might have had.

Agreed. I don't like two QB systems at all, but if it's going to be done, I prefer by series not by situation*.

*EDIT: Except for one play in very short yardage.

 

[TDHeysus]

This will be the first time in 5 years where BK says the 'open competition' like he says every year, only this will be the first time we can't predict with 100% accuracy who the starter will actually be.

this is what needs to be happen, the QB's need to compete. Zaire shouldnt transfer, or play some other position, F No! - fight it out and see who is the better player. Those players competing should push each other to be better, just by the nature of the competition.

this is a good thing, competition at skill positions is something somewhat foreign at ND over the last 15-20years. Its what makes top tier programs put out the best team; competition in practice because you have a log jam of talent is where every program wants to be. I say embrace it, and be happy that the program is in position to be able to have top tier talent at most, if not all positions. Transferring, or changing positions is for those that cant compete......like Golson

 

[koonja]

Name one D1 head coach (and there have been thousands) that said 'ok it's redzone, lets put in the other guy'. Besides Tebow, and even then he was goalline.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Name one D1 head coach (and there have been thousands) that said 'ok it's redzone, lets put in the other guy'. Besides Tebow, and even then he was goalline.

Bob Stoops and the Belldozer

 

[JSBusch]

Name one D1 head coach (and there have been thousands) that said 'ok it's redzone, lets put in the other guy'. Besides Tebow, and even then he was goalline.

Bell-dozer immediately comes to mind.

 

[BeauBenken]

Bob Stoops and the Belldozer

AKA the first kid to score a rushing touchdown on the 2012 ND defense.

 

[IrishLion]

Name one D1 head coach (and there have been thousands) that said 'ok it's redzone, lets put in the other guy'. Besides Tebow, and even then he was goalline.

Oklahoma State pretty much did that this season.

Oklahoma had the Belldozer.

Northwestern has done it a few times in the past several years (though they were a bit more liberal with putting the "runner" in at various times).

Duke has done it for a couple of seasons now I think, though the names of the QB's escape me.

Hell, Ohio State did it for a few games this year before Barrett took the job 100%.

 

[BeauBenken]

Name one D1 head coach (and there have been thousands) that said 'ok it's redzone, lets put in the other guy'. Besides Tebow, and even then he was goalline.

How many coaches usually have a #2 QB who can come in and be better than the starter? Or need them to be?

Fact of the matter is that we struggled in the red zone...again. Kizer poses a running threat, but is a better open field runner than pound it in type of guy. Malik looked GREAT except for the fact that our offense relied heavily on him running. I think it's an obvious compromise that you reduce the knocks he and Kizer take by using Malik in redzone and/or goaline situations, and you let Kizer do his thing between the twenties/tens.

I'd pay money to see Malik under center in an option formation under center, whether it be Wings, T, or Full House...whatever.

 

[koonja]

I'll voluntarily leave the site if BK employs a QB situation where we switch once we get to the red zone. Zero chance it happens.

 

[IrishLax]

Malik Zaire has earned an opportunity to compete for the starting job. A HUGE chunk of ND's success this year is the cultural he built with teammates in the offseason. Night and day different than when Golson was at the helm, and the entire team was better for it.

It would be a complete disservice to him to just hand the job to Kizer, even though you'd be hard pressed to come up with a reason why Kizer shouldn't quite obviously be handed the job.

 

[phgreek]

I'll voluntarily leave the site if BK employs a QB situation where we switch once we get to the red zone. Zero chance it happens.

May not set out to do it that way...but looking at the man's history ...he doesn't like to do it, but he has shown he absolutely will for the W. If he thinks he can step on a throat and end a game by putting one or the other in...he'd do it as fast as a hooker'd take your money....and I love that about him.

 

[NDohio]

Here is my thing. The red zone issues are a constant under BK regardless of who is playing QB. I am not going to put any blame on MZ for the following failures, but here is what he did in his last game:

First Drive - Failed in the red zone - fake field goal for TD

Second Drive - Failed in the red zone - FG made

Third Drive - Failed near the red zone - FG made

Fourth Drive - Failed near the red zone - turned over on downs in short yardage situation. We had a second and two and couldn't get the first down in three attempts!!

Eighth Drive - Failed near the red zone - FG missed

Ninth Drive - MZ got hurt - scored TD on the next play

What do we really gain by changing QBs in the red zone?

 

[#1rish]

Perhaps it'll go like:

2016: DK starter, MZ backup, BW 2nd backup

2017: DK starter, MZ has degree and transfers to somewhere he can start, BW 1st backup, IB 2nd backup

2018: DK leaves for the NFL, BW starter, IB backup, another recruit 2nd backup

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Changing QBs in the redzone, to me, is a terrible idea. Talk about throwing off any rhythm you might have had.

Yup.



Rhythm my ass. If we were going no huddle or hurry up, sure, but everyone always talks about this rhythm crap and it's really just poor execution. I have literally swapped QBs every play before (coached with a 1A, 1B system for part of my season) and drove down the field. If the team is coached to handle a dual quarterback system, they'll be fine.

If we're in shotgun at the 5, it's Malik I want every down, not Kizer.

How many coaches usually have a #2 QB who can come in and be better than the starter? Or need them to be?

Fact of the matter is that we struggled in the red zone...again. Kizer poses a running threat, but is a better open field runner than pound it in type of guy. Malik looked GREAT except for the fact that our offense relied heavily on him running. I think it's an obvious compromise that you reduce the knocks he and Kizer take by using Malik in redzone and/or goaline situations, and you let Kizer do his thing between the twenties/tens.

I'd pay money to see Malik under center in an option formation under center, whether it be Wings, T, or Full House...whatever.

If there's one thing we learned this year, and what cost us the game vs Clemson and Stanford, is that we had no rhythm in the red zone. Meanwhile, we consistently punched the ball in with Zaire against the #1 ranked defense in the SEC in LSU last year.

Kizer is big and fast in stride, but runs like a TE, while Malik could be a starting running back on most teams in the country. With a healthy Folston and Luatua (who is the best blocking TE in the country IMO), there isn't a team in the country with an answer for Zaire running the option in the red zone.