Projects/Home Improvement Thread

[Irish#1]

Fack. Evaporator coils are shot. $1,000 down the drain.

Home ownership.

 

[phgreek]

First world and western US problem...

So I just spent my 4th holiday replacing all my Maxi Paw sprinkler heads...36 of the MFers, What I learned:

So the practice was, apparently, to use saddles on the mains, tied to 1/2" pipe running to the heads. So, the saddles get strapped to the main, then a tool punches a little hole into the main, water flows through the saddle, providing water to the 1/2" pipe attached to your sprinkler. How my sprinklers functioned this long...I don't know.

Don't ever let someone do that. Minimum of 3/4 inch pipe to your sprinkler heads or as the years go by, and your heads begin to lose performance, the water feed through the little hole, and into the 1/2" pipe will not give enough pressure or flow and will cause heads to prematurely fail you. So I replaced every stupid ass run of saddles and 1/2" pipe with 3/4" pipe...tested on one of the old "failing" Maxi's...worked fine. But I'm told the new rainbird 5000 is better at distributing water and less wasteful, so I did the replacements. Plus they can be had for 11 or 12 bucks, where the Maxis are now 20ish per head, and I couldn't find anyone selling the replacement guts to Maxis.

Anyway...I was already outside when fireworks happened...Woohoo!

 

[BGIF]

Home ownership.

I wish every new homeowner congratulations ... and condolences.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Fack. Evaporator coils are shot. $1,000 down the drain.

Are you certain that they're shot? No way they can just be cleaned?

 

[wizards8507]

Are you certain that they're shot? No way they can just be cleaned?

No, they're spotless on the outside. There's a blockage on the inside. The refrigerant isn't flowing.

 

[BGIF]

No, they're spotless on the outside. There's a blockage on the inside. The refrigerant isn't flowing.

What brand AC unit?

 

[wizards8507]

What brand AC unit?

We have two American Standard Allegiance 16s.

https://www.acdoctor.com/AmericanStandard-Allegiance-16-p-3811.html

The units are fine, it's the evaporator coil that's jacked up.

 

[wizards8507]

These HVAC contractors are the biggest idiots. The first company gives me a quote of $1,500 PLUS tax and labor so I start looking for bids. Every asshole company in the state wants to charge me a $100 diagnostic fee. They want ME to pay THEM for THEM to have the chance to bid on MY high-margin job. You waive the goddamn fee when there's a big payday on the other side of it.

 

[woolybug25]

These HVAC contractors are the biggest idiots. The first company gives me a quote of $1,500 PLUS tax and labor so I start looking for bids. Every asshole company in the state wants to charge me a $100 diagnostic fee. They want ME to pay THEM for THEM to have the chance to bid on MY high-margin job. You waive the goddamn fee when there's a big payday on the other side of it.

They wave it if you actually hire them. Why would you assume that a company should come and tell you what's wrong with your hvac so you can hire someone else to do it for less? That's something a poor would do.

Have you ever worked in a trade before?

Rookie.

 

[wizards8507]

Why would you assume that a company should come and tell you what's wrong with your hvac so you can hire someone else to do it for less?

I already know what's wrong with the system because I already paid the first company the diagnostic fee. They need to replace the evaporator coil in the basement air handler. I'm not going to pay somebody $100 to say "yeah, you're right... we need to replace the evaporator coil in the basement air handler."

This is the part where you chastise me for not having my own Freon recovery machine.

 

[woolybug25]

I already know what's wrong with the system because I already paid the first company the diagnostic fee. They need to replace the evaporator coil in the basement air handler. I'm not going to pay somebody $100 to say "yeah, you're right... we need to replace the evaporator coil in the basement air handler."

This is the part where you chastise me for not having my own Freon recovery machine.

So if your previous hvac guy was wrong, are you gonna pay for the evaporator and service rate, a new diagnostic fee and the new costs to fix it right?

Seriously. Your hands are probably as soft as a baby's bottom.

 

[wizards8507]

So if your previous hvac guy was wrong, are you gonna pay for the evaporator and service rate, a new diagnostic fee and the new costs to fix it right?

If the first HVAC guy was wrong, then I don't need a new evaporator so there's nothing to pay for. I'll pay:

• Time and materials to replace evaporator, or;
• Diagnostic fee and service fee for alternative repair

Not both.

Seriously. Your hands are probably as soft as a baby's bottom.

*Something witty about spanking your mom.*

Give me a break. This isn't a DIY job for anyone.

 

[koonja]

Wiz, I have experience in HVAC from becoming a home owner. Buy me two, 2-day, park to park passes and fly me to your house and back, and I'll change your evaporated coils. 2 hr job max.

 

[woolybug25]

If the first HVAC guy was wrong, then I don't need a new evaporator so there's nothing to pay for. I'll pay:

• Time and materials to replace evaporator, or;
• Diagnostic fee and service fee for alternative repair

Not both.


*Something witty about spanking your mom.*

Give me a break. This isn't a DIY job for anyone.

Then why do you question a professional's desire to diagnose the problem himself? If someone spreads some financials for you to push around your cubicle, are you just going to take their word for it or are you going to confirm their findings?

This isn't some new thing they are doing specifically to screw you over. It's literally how all service calls are done. You want those companies to pay time and labor to come over, to purchase an evaporator without even knowing if it is the problem, and then you want them to eat those costs if some other vendor's diagnosis is wrong. It's stupid.

 

[wizards8507]

This isn't some new thing they are doing specifically to screw you over. It's literally how all service calls are done. You want those companies to pay time and labor to come over, to purchase an evaporator without even knowing if it is the problem, and then you want them to eat those costs if some other vendor's diagnosis is wrong. It's stupid.

It's two minutes in the basement and two minutes in the back yard because I can tell them exactly what they're looking for. I'll gladly pay them $100 per hour of labor for the five minutes they'd be at my house.

I've never run into this shitty business practice before. Pest control, plumbing, landscaping, windows, roofing, tree removal, etc. They always come out and do free estimates / diagnostics. Then you pay them for the actual service you receive. It's like a grocery store charging you $10 to enter the building. I'm not paying you one fee for the privilege of maybe getting to pay you more money to do the thing I actually want you to do.

 

[woolybug25]

It's two minutes in the basement and two minutes in the back yard because I can tell them exactly what they're looking for. I'll gladly pay them $100 per hour of labor for the five minutes they'd be at my house.

I've never run into this shitty business practice before. Pest control, plumbing, landscaping, windows, roofing, tree removal, etc. They always come out and do free estimates / diagnostics.

I'm sorry... which one of those is repairman?

Call to get your fridge, furnace, etc looked at and tell me if they want a diagnostic fee. Do you honestly believe that it's something the HVAC world came up with all on their own?

Again... if you know its the evaporator and they come with purchased said evaporator. What exactly do you want them to do with it if that's not the problem? Are you still going to pay for the labor it cost to install/uninstall it? Are you going to pay for the evaporator itself? No... you're saying that you want them to eat that. Again... stupid.

 

[wizards8507]

What exactly do you want them to do with it if that's not the problem? Are you still going to pay for the labor it cost to install/uninstall it? Are you going to pay for the evaporator itself?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying "I want to pay for you to acquire and install a new evaporator, period. For what price will you do that job?"

Why do I need to prove to them that my old unit is broken before they'll agree to replace it with a new one? What the hell difference does it make to them? It's me choosing to trust the last guy's diagnosis, they're not on the hook for that. If the guy was wrong and it turns out they replace my perfectly fine evaporator with a new perfectly fine evaporator, they should be thrilled to get $2,000 out of the sucker.

 

[woolybug25]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'm saying "I want to pay for you to acquire and install a new evaporator, period. For what price will you do that job?"

Why do I need to prove to them that my old unit is broken before they'll agree to replace it with a new one? What the hell difference does it make to them? It's me choosing to trust the last guy's diagnosis, they're not on the hook for that. If the guy was wrong and it turns out they replace my perfectly fine evaporator with a new perfectly fine evaporator, they should be thrilled to get $2,000 out of the sucker.

and in your head you think people would pay them for something that wasn't the problem? Until your last post, you were even saying you wouldn't.

If the first HVAC guy was wrong, then I don't need a new evaporator so there's nothing to pay for. I'll pay:
Time and materials to replace evaporator, or;
Diagnostic fee and service fee for alternative repair

Not both.

Quote:

The reality is that there's a ton of people that would refuse payment and/or cause a huge headache for them. So they prefer to diagnose the problem themselves. Not to mention, you think they make money on a diagnosis? A $100 covers their cost. Only so you can go take that information and give it to their competitors.

 

[wizards8507]

Boom. Companies number ten and eleven I called do free estimates, and one of them will win my business.

 

[koonja]

Boom. Companies number ten and eleven I called do free estimates, and one of them will win my business.

Smells like a start up where they've all illegally yelp'd their own reviews. Good luck with that. HVAC is not something to get cheap on, even I know better than this.

 

[wizards8507]

Smells like a start up where they've all illegally yelp'd their own reviews. Good luck with that. HVAC is not something to get cheap on, even I know better than this.

The first company has 4.7 stars on 214 verified ratings from the BBB. The second company isn't as great but it's good to get multiple bids.

Haven't either of you two slobs ever bid a job out before? You always pull some low cost providers into the bid so that the big guys bring their prices down.

 

[Irish#1]

Boom. Companies number ten and eleven I called do free estimates, and one of them will win my business.

Wiz, it's really very simple. As you know, most companies will waive the fee if they do the job. The reason they want to diagnose it themselves is to make sure that is indeed the problem. For all they know, you googled on the interwebby thing and don't really know what the problem is, or the company that came out before could have misdiagnosed the problem. You would be pretty pissed if they took your word for it, replaced your coil and the problem was still there.

There may be some companies that will take your word for it, but I'm not sure I'd do business with them. Most companies won't repair without diagnosing themselves. If you found someone that does free estimates, that's great, but most of those companies don't really do free estimates. They just roll that cost into the job.

BTW........When you get to the point where you need to replace the unt, go for a high SER rating. It's worth it as you'll recoup the extra cost through reduced bills.

 

[wizards8507]

Wiz, it's really very simple. As you know, most companies will waive the fee if they do the job. The reason they want to diagnose it themselves is to make sure that is indeed the problem. For all they know, you googled on the interwebby thing and don't really know what the problem is, or the company that came out before could have misdiagnosed the problem. You would be pretty pissed if they took your word for it, replaced your coil and the problem was still there.

There may be some companies that will take your word for it, but I'm not sure I'd do business with them. Most companies won't repair without diagnosing themselves. If you found someone that does free estimates, that's great, but most of those companies don't really do free estimates. They just roll that cost into the job.

I get it, but I want a bunch of bids. That's the only way you know you're not getting jobbed on the parts cost, because I don't have a guy I can call at American Standard and figure out what I should actually be paying for this thing. If you want five companies to bid on a job, you don't want to pay five diagnostic fees. I totally get a diagnostic fee on a repair, but I'm not shopping for a repair. I'm shopping for a piece of equipment and installation. I don't need them to "fix" anything, I need them to buy a thing and install it. My job is much more similar to buying a new AC unit than it is closing a leak or charging the system.

BTW........When you get to the point where you need to replace the unt, go for a high SER rating. It's worth it as you'll recoup the extra cost through reduced bills.

I have two 16 SEER units. They're fawkin' amazing.

 

[koonja]

There are some jobs where getting multiple bids make sense. Any construction jobs, building a deck, large landscaping, etc.

Then there are jobs where 2 bids is plenty. Fixing your AC, putting up a gutter, etc. At a certain point, racing around trying to save $200 not only wastes a lot of small businesses' time (talk about Karma), but is simply for the poors.

 

[woolybug25]

There are some jobs where getting multiple bids make sense. Any construction jobs, building a deck, large landscaping, etc.

Then there are jobs where 2 bids is plenty. Fixing your AC, putting up a gutter, etc. At a certain point, racing around trying to save $200 not only wastes a lot of small businesses' time (talk about Karma), but is simply for the poors.

 

[Irish#1]

I get it, but I want a bunch of bids. That's the only way you know you're not getting jobbed on the parts cost, because I don't have a guy I can call at American Standard and figure out what I should actually be paying for this thing. If you want five companies to bid on a job, you don't want to pay five diagnostic fees. I totally get a diagnostic fee on a repair, but I'm not shopping for a repair. I'm shopping for a piece of equipment and installation. I don't need them to "fix" anything, I need them to buy a thing and install it. My job is much more similar to buying a new AC unit than it is closing a leak or charging the system.


I have two 16 SEER units. They're fawkin' amazing.

I think you understand, but I don't think you do get it. If you tell them this is what I want and I don't want a diagnosis, be prepared for them to say no thanks or, Okay, we'll do it, but it comes with no guarantee because we really don't know until we're done if that will fix the problem. Besides, if it is a clogged coil, what caused it to be clogged? That's where you real problem might be. Good Luck.

 

[Irish#1]

There are some jobs where getting multiple bids make sense. Any construction jobs, building a deck, large landscaping, etc.

Then there are jobs where 2 bids is plenty. Fixing your AC, putting up a gutter, etc. At a certain point, racing around trying to save $200 not only wastes a lot of small businesses' time (talk about Karma), but is simply for the poors.

You may have ignored our advice all this time, but it sounds like you were listening!

 

[wizards8507]

Bunch of cucks in this bitch. I bet you all pay sticker price for cars, too. Then brag that you're not a poors.

 

[calvegas04]

Do need some advise, first time I have ever had to deal with rats. Been in my house for 3 years now and about a month ago my dog starts barking outside nonstop and it is because of rats, they came out of no where. They are only outside thank goodness.. anyone recommend any traps or poisons that work good? I will be blocking off the part of the back yard from my dog so whatever I put down he won't get into.

 

[zelezo vlk]