Post Game Thoughts: Boston College

[stlnd01]

The problem is our offense is atrocious, and our QB is not developing--the OC is. Wimbush is not and never was a great passer. Had he been as good a passer as DK, he would have played. Wimbush is just not a good QB. EVERYONE knew we were overhauling the offense and defense--and we ALL knew this already--but Wimbush is not a good passer and Long is not a good OC. When that happens, you are crippled offensively, and your defense has to be stellar. Thank god our defense has been stout, because we were one half away from losing to fvcking BC, thanks to our inept passing game. How good was Kizer just 3 games into his first starting season? EXACTLY. Wimbush is a garbage passer, period...and now if you can force ND to become one-dimensional and have a decent offense, you can beat ND. UGA showed how to do it and they might be the worst UGA team in years. THAT should be scary, because Wimbush never will be.

Wow.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Dude. I get your point. But mine is plain and simple. We're not good enough to make it this year. The goal is Natty or bust. I like some of the players on the team. I like Elko. But the reality is, we're just not there yet.


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So, what would you do?
Fire the OC? DC? HC? All?
Put Ian Book in? See what Avery can do?

Do you expect any of these changes to result in "national championship caliber" football overnight?

You are proving my point regarding posters on here with their sensational irrationality.

Any, and all, actions will take time... I know people will say, Kelly has had time, I'm done with him... Sure, he has had time, but guess what? Swarbrick has made changes. We have a direction we're going. This is NEW, this is unlike any team Kelly has had before.

Let's give it a chance before we scrap it, again.

 

[beryirish]

We are not "kids," and frankly, what you just said is far more arrogant and myopic than what you accused the previous poster of, because he is right. MOST CFB QBs do NOT start for 3-4 years, and to compare a starting freshman QB to a Junior is asinine. Brady started 3-4 years too, and yes, it does take time to progress, but BW has been in the program under the same coach, with the same basic offense, for 3 full years. I am sorry, but Chip is not installing an ENTIRELY NEW OFFENSE. He left Memphis, and guess what, they have a brand new QB and STILL hung 48 on a ranked team last weekend. As Lax said, Chip was not the offensive mastermind at Memphis, it was Jay Norvell, the HC.

The problem is our offense is atrocious, and our QB is not developing--the OC is. Wimbush is not and never was a great passer. Had he been as good a passer as DK, he would have played. Wimbush is just not a good QB. EVERYONE knew we were overhauling the offense and defense--and we ALL knew this already--but Wimbush is not a good passer and Long is not a good OC. When that happens, you are crippled offensively, and your defense has to be stellar. Thank god our defense has been stout, because we were one half away from losing to fvcking BC, thanks to our inept passing game. How good was Kizer just 3 games into his first starting season? EXACTLY. Wimbush is a garbage passer, period...and now if you can force ND to become one-dimensional and have a decent offense, you can beat ND. UGA showed how to do it and they might be the worst UGA team in years. THAT should be scary, because Wimbush never will be.

So you're saying Wimbush will never be a good passer after three games of LIVE action?

The biggest thing for DK is he had a rocket arm and was poised (too poised sometimes because he got sacked 20+ times hanging onto the ball that BW would have booked it by then).

Kizer was good his 1st 3 games...because he had a good run game with CJ Prosise and he was throwing to an NFL 1st rounder in Will Fuller who could take the top off a defense and Chris Brown, a veteran route runner. Sprinkle in Carlisle and Hunter with experience and i think they made it easy for him.

That was big talk going into this year, the WR experience and leadership. That was a big part in bringing in two WR transfers. It's not just the QB, the WR's have to be held accountable too.

And where are you getting at that UGA may be the worst UGA in years.....???? You just pulling this out........
They are picked to win the SEC East. They're not Missouri.

 

[stlnd01]

Can we chill just a bit?

Wimbush has played three games. He will find his bearings and get better at throwing the ball. He is not Deshone Kizer in the pocket, but he brings a lot to the table. Meantime we have run all the fuck over two teams known for solid defense. The third is probably the best defense we'll play all year, and one of the best front sevens in the country.

It'll be ok.

 

[IrishLion]

You know BC had a better run defense than either USC or Miami last year, right?

It's like you people are obsessed with one data point... Georgia... as some perfect counter-factual against running the ball. Nevermind that it's actually evidence to the contrary of what you think it shows... it shows what happens if you try to throw it 40 times because you're scared to commit to the run, and it shows what happens when you do slow developing cutesy shit to the perimeter instead of commuting to enforcing your will on the interior. We have no clue what the rushing offense could've done against Georgia's elite front 7 because it was abandoned in favor of dumb passing plays, and the running plays we did call were timid ones.

I'd argue that the gameplan for throwing against UGA was decent, but not executed well, as Wimbush is high on nearly every throw he makes that isn't a short outlet to Adams or Mack.

 

[koonja]

So, what would you do?
Fire the OC? DC? HC? All?
Put Ian Book in? See what Avery can do?

Do you expect any of these changes to result in "national championship caliber" football overnight?

You are proving my point regarding posters on here with their sensational irrationality.

Any, and all, actions will take time... I know people will say, Kelly has had time, I'm done with him... Sure, he has had time, but guess what? Swarbrick has made changes. We have a direction we're going. This is NEW, this is unlike any team Kelly has had before.

Let's give it a chance before we scrap it, again.

No one's saying bench Wimbush or fire the OC right now. We're just saying Wimbush is very underwhelming as a passer, and it's going really hurt against good teams unless he drastically improves, and quickly. We're also pointing out it's not unrealistic in CFB to expect a QB in year 3 to come in with little-no starts and throw the ball well. It's not like we've played 3 juggernauts - just 1. Wimbush has had by far better talent on his side of the ball than the defense he's facing in 2 of the 3 games, and he's looked really bad at reading the field, staying comfortable in the pocket, and making accurate throws.

And to those of you who say "we're good" in regards to passing offense, we're asking what the heck games you're watching. Because it doesn't look pretty.

This isn't Lou Holtz's era. You don't win by being one dimensional on offense unless you're Bama, and it's not unrealistic to expect a high-4 star QB who's been here 3 years to come in and read the field and make accurate throws right away. RS freshman do it all the time in CFB.

 

[JohnnyJasper]

No one's saying bench Wimbush or fire the OC right now. We're just saying Wimbush is very underwhelming as a passer, and it's going really hurt against good teams unless he drastically improves, and quickly. We're also pointing out it's not unrealistic in CFB to expect a QB in year 3 to come in with little-no starts and throw the ball well. It's not like we've played 3 juggernauts - just 1. Wimbush has had by far better talent on his side of the ball than the defense he's facing in 2 of the 3 games, and he's looked really bad at reading the field, staying comfortable in the pocket, and making accurate throws.

And to those of you who say "we're good" in regards to passing offense, we're asking what the heck games you're watching. Because it doesn't look pretty.

This isn't Lou Holtz's era. You don't win by being one dimensional on offense unless you're Bama, and it's not unrealistic to expect a high-4 star QB who's been here 3 years to come in and read the field and make accurate throws right away. RS freshman do it all the time in CFB.

Yes


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[STLDomer]

Interested in the responses on the firestorm this will cause.....

Who would rather have Malik Zaire right now?

 

[koonja]

What sucks is, the defense is exactly what we were praying for since Diaco. The running game is the best it's been in years. And we expected BW to be as good as anyone out there.

And his inability to be a threat passing is the bottleneck to this team really rolling right now. Who would have thunk it.

 

[dublinirish]

Interested in the responses on the firestorm this will cause.....

Who would rather have Malik Zaire right now?

lol naw but yeah it's ironic that MZ left despite this being an offense that much better fits his skillset. And the one he choose to transfer to, (UF, Pro-style) does not

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

No one's saying bench Wimbush or fire the OC right now. We're just saying Wimbush is very underwhelming as a passer, and it's going really hurt against good teams unless he drastically improves, and quickly. We're also pointing out it's not unrealistic in CFB to expect a QB in year 3 to come in with little-no starts and throw the ball well. It's not like we've played 3 juggernauts - just 1. Wimbush has had by far better talent on his side of the ball than the defense he's facing in 2 of the 3 games, and he's looked really bad at reading the field, staying comfortable in the pocket, and making accurate throws.

And to those of you who say "we're good" in regards to passing offense, we're asking what the heck games you're watching. Because it doesn't look pretty.

This isn't Lou Holtz's era. You don't win by being one dimensional on offense unless you're Bama, and it's not unrealistic to expect a high-4 star QB who's been here 3 years to come in and read the field and make accurate throws right away. RS freshman do it all the time in CFB.

Again, you're incorrect. Many people on here screamed for BOTH to happen. Especially benching Brandon.

Question for you guys,

Do you think that it is even possible for Brandon to improve as a passer? Or has he plateaued? If plateaued, how do you know this?

You guys, whether you realize this or not, have NO possible way of knowing what will become of Brandon.

So, instead of being assholes and writing him off, how about we give the kid some time? Is that too much to ask?

 

[koonja]

Again, you're incorrect. Many people on here screamed for BOTH to happen. Especially benching Brandon.

Question for you guys,

Do you think that it is even possible for Brandon to improve as a passer? Or has he plateaued? If plateaued, how do you know this?

You guys, whether you realize this or not, have NO possible way of knowing what will become of Brandon.

So, instead of being assholes and writing him off, how about we give the kid some time? Is that too much to ask?

Dear God let's hope? But yes.

Again, this isn't the NFL where you give the guy 3 years as the starter before you asses him. In CFB, you win now. Especially when you have a good defense, a really good running game, and a QB who's been here 3 years.

Because the coach is about to get fired. The defense is playing outstanding. The running game is awesome. And our QB couldn't hit Eric Hansen on a button hook. Probably wouldn't even see him. And that is saying something.

 

[ThePiombino]

Again, you're incorrect. Many people on here screamed for BOTH to happen. Especially benching Brandon.

Question for you guys,

Do you think that it is even possible for Brandon to improve as a passer? Or has he plateaued? If plateaued, how do you know this?

You guys, whether you realize this or not, have NO possible way of knowing what will become of Brandon.

So, instead of being assholes and writing him off, how about we give the kid some time? Is that too much to ask?

Absolutely. We've seen his high school film as well as ND practice film. He obviously can make throws. He just just needs to get some burn so shit slows down in his head. And anyone who wants to point out that this is his 3rd season needs to remember that last season was a red-shirt year (thus no PT) and his last action was 2 years ago and amounted to what? 10 passes or so? Relax. He'll come around, just be happy he can do it on the ground in the interim. You all remember how atrocious DK was as a passer at 1st? Eventually shit clicks.

 

[IrishLion]

I had heard from several non-IE people during fall camp that Wimbush is the real deal. And they are people that wouldn't blow smoke just to blow smoke.

All reviews leaking out of closed practices were that Wimbush was gonna light it up. And we've seen his film and his practice highlights, so we know he can throw a good, accurate ball.

He just needs confidence (which I think he got during the 2nd half of the BC game).

And he needs a play-caller that can slowly open things up for him (which I think Long can do now that he's got three games on film, two of them against good defenses).

We'll see.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

What sucks is, the defense is exactly what we were praying for since Diaco. The running game is the best it's been in years. And we expected BW to be as good as anyone out there.

And his inability to be a threat passing is the bottleneck to this team really rolling right now. Who would have thunk it.

Why did you expect Brandon to be as good as anyone in nation?
New QB, New Coach(es), new system.

You're proving my point for me.
So many unrealistic expectations.

 

[koonja]

Why did you expect Brandon to be as good as anyone in nation?
New QB, New Coach(es), new system.

You're proving my point for me.
So many unrealistic expectations.

On the team. On the offense. And why? That doesn't even need to be explained.

 

[wizards8507]

Eventually shit clicks.

I disagree, at least in college football. High impact guys are high impact guys almost from their first snap, with the exception of weight room stuff and guys growing into their bodies. Wimbush certainly has been a high impact guy, but not as a passer. I'd like to see the offense evolve accordingly. Nobody complains when the Army and Navy QBs are inaccurate because they're not in a system that requires them to be.

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree, at least in college football. High impact guys are high impact guys almost from their first snap, with the exception of weight room stuff and guys growing into their bodies. Wimbush certainly has been a high impact guy, but not as a passer. I'd like to see the offense evolve accordingly. Nobody complains when the Army and Navy QBs are inaccurate because they're not in a system that requires them to be.

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe right now. You know what you've got and had a whole offseason working with it. Stop asking Brandon to do the stuff he isn't well suited to do... you don't see the Pats asking Brady to do naked bootlegs, and you don't see the Chiefs asking Alex Smith to push the ball 50+ yards down the field with his arm.

The offense should be designed to run-run-run-bomb... Joe Moorehead's offense at PSU is a great example for this archetype. It should be single read deep passes after forcing them to crowd the line of scrimmage, and then check downs for when that isn't open. Some of the stuff they're asking him to do is just nonsensical and the reason he looks "bad" instead of "good" is a combination of that and his pass catchers being subpar so far. Stop asking him to read the field and go through "progressions" and I bet you his mechanics will get WAY better.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

You know BC had a better run defense than either USC or Miami last year, right?

It's like you people are obsessed with one data point... Georgia... as some perfect counter-factual against running the ball. Nevermind that it's actually evidence to the contrary of what you think it shows... it shows what happens if you try to throw it 40 times because you're scared to commit to the run, and it shows what happens when you do slow developing cutesy shit to the perimeter instead of commuting to enforcing your will on the interior. We have no clue what the rushing offense could've done against Georgia's elite front 7 because it was abandoned in favor of dumb passing plays, and the running plays we did call were timid ones.

Unfortunately, we did not impose our will and the only reason we committed to the run is because our QB was so inept in the passing game. Sure we had a few long runs but we also had our normal disconcerting number of minimal yardage runs. I would attribute the long runs more to a little of defensive breakdowns and a lot of individual effort/improvisations: sandlot football. It will never work against decent adequately coached teams and BC ain't one. Nothing can be taken way from our performance against a dreadfully bad BC team other than we had more dynamic players than BC. Which is doesn't say much because BC doesn't have one.

 

[ThePiombino]

I disagree, at least in college football. High impact guys are high impact guys almost from their first snap, with the exception of weight room stuff and guys growing into their bodies. Wimbush certainly has been a high impact guy, but not as a passer. I'd like to see the offense evolve accordingly. Nobody complains when the Army and Navy QBs are inaccurate because they're not in a system that requires them to be.

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe right now. You know what you've got and had a whole offseason working with it. Stop asking Brandon to do the stuff he isn't well suited to do... you don't see the Pats asking Brady to do naked bootlegs, and you don't see the Chiefs asking Alex Smith to push the ball 50+ yards down the field with his arm.

The offense should be designed to run-run-run-bomb... Joe Moorehead's offense at PSU is a great example for this archetype. It should be single read deep passes after forcing them to crowd the line of scrimmage, and then check downs for when that isn't open. Some of the stuff they're asking him to do is just nonsensical and the reason he looks "bad" instead of "good" is a combination of that and his pass catchers being subpar so far. Stop asking him to read the field and go through "progressions" and I bet you his mechanics will get WAY better.

While I don't necessarily disagree with any of what you guys are saying, try to remember how bad DK looked after a couple years in the system and really right up until the Virginia game. Sometimes a little burn is all it takes for the light to go on and Wimbush still only has 3 full games under his belt.

 

[snoopdog]

Pretty simple solutions to this incredibly complex issue

Fire BK immediately and replace him with Denson
Bench ol' one legged Adams and no arms Wimbush and have Book hand off to Dexter 50 times a game

 

[irishff1014]

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe right now. You know what you've got and had a whole offseason working with it. Stop asking Brandon to do the stuff he isn't well suited to do... you don't see the Pats asking Brady to do naked bootlegs, and you don't see the Chiefs asking Alex Smith to push the ball 50+ yards down the field with his arm.

The offense should be designed to run-run-run-bomb... Joe Moorehead's offense at PSU is a great example for this archetype. It should be single read deep passes after forcing them to crowd the line of scrimmage, and then check downs for when that isn't open. Some of the stuff they're asking him to do is just nonsensical and the reason he looks "bad" instead of "good" is a combination of that and his pass catchers being subpar so far. Stop asking him to read the field and go through "progressions" and I bet you his mechanics will get WAY better.

Lax with some strong truthful comments. Talk about a comment being on point.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

People need to realize (and understand) that "practice time" and "game time" have resulted in two different Brandons...

In practice, by all accounts, his mechanics and pocket presence were fine. No one was saying, "oh boy, I don't know if they kid can throw".

NOW, he is facing blitzes and breakdowns. Now he is ACTUALLY able to run (which he surely wasn't doing in practice). So, what has happened? He is playing with zero (now 3 games) of actual experience. He has been leaning on his God given talents. He has been throwing on the run without settling his feet. He's probably nervous, anxious or "antsy"... He is lapsing mentally, he is lapsing in mechanical discipline.

Guess what, all of these things require (bad) experiences and mistakes to learn from. Kelly and Co can't simulate these situations in practice.

But now that it's happening, it can be taught. And all of Brandon's mistakes are correctable.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

People need to realize (and understand) that "practice time" and "game time" have resulted in two different Brandons...

In practice, by all accounts, his mechanics and pocket presence were fine. No one was saying, "oh boy, I don't know if they kid can throw".

NOW, he is facing blitzes and breakdowns. Now he is ACTUALLY able to run (which he surely wasn't doing in practice). So, what has happened? He is playing with zero (now 3 games) of actual experience. He has been leaning on his God given talents. He has been throwing on the run without settling his feet. He's probably nervous, anxious or "antsy"... He is lapsing mentally, he is lapsing in mechanical discipline.

Guess what, all of these things require (bad) experiences and mistakes to learn from. Kelly and Co can't simulate these situations in practice.

But now that it's happening, it can be taught. And all of Brandon's mistakes are correctable.

I infer the coaching staff doesn't share your views or your patience. Did you notice the play calls when Book came into the game? Passing downfield in a blowout? Typically on the rare occasions they play, our backup QBs come in to hand the ball off. Yet, Book comes in gun-slinging.

 

[NDohio]

Offensively that was the game that posters on IE have been wanting for years. Run the ball early and even if it isn't effective keep running so we can wear down a lesser opponent knowing that by the fourth quarter it will pay off. I loved seeing that and I am sure IE was full of positive thoughts as the game plan played out to perfection...

FIL7 thank god for your existence or I'd be losing my mind.

Literally every year since Weis '06 people have been complaining about not running the ball well enough and needing to go back to our roots and doing things like Holtz and Tony Rice.

Now we have absolutely shredded two oppponents on the ground at near historic levels and it's all "we're not going anywhere with a pretty passing game!!! You can't win just running the ball!" It's just so fucking stupid because it's equal parts hypocritictal and factually untrue... you 100% can win a LOT of games as a one dimensional team committed to the run.

I feel so left out...

 

[CrystalHead]

I guess I'm one of the few that thought BW did a hell of a job taking what the defense gave him. If he completes 4-5 more passes in the game this conversation doesn't take place. He can come out next week and go 20/25 for 250 + and a lot of you will say either it's just one game or it was just a depleted MSU team.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe right now. You know what you've got and had a whole offseason working with it. Stop asking Brandon to do the stuff he isn't well suited to do... you don't see the Pats asking Brady to do naked bootlegs, and you don't see the Chiefs asking Alex Smith to push the ball 50+ yards down the field with his arm.

The offense should be designed to run-run-run-bomb... Joe Moorehead's offense at PSU is a great example for this archetype. It should be single read deep passes after forcing them to crowd the line of scrimmage, and then check downs for when that isn't open. Some of the stuff they're asking him to do is just nonsensical and the reason he looks "bad" instead of "good" is a combination of that and his pass catchers being subpar so far. Stop asking him to read the field and go through "progressions" and I bet you his mechanics will get WAY better.

Never going to happen under BKelly.

 

[GowerND11]

Never going to happen under BKelly.

Happened in 2012 to an extent.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I infer the coaching staff doesn't share your views or your patience. Did you notice the play calls when Book came into the game? Passing downfield in a blowout? Typically on the rare occasions they play, our backup QBs come in to hand the ball off. Yet, Book comes in gun-slinging.

1) Kelly openly said that he's not worried about Brandon, and that he expected this, knowing that he would need to adapt to Brandon's style once live-game situations arose. (so, your inference is incorrect).

2) I did notice the play calls. HE THROW 3 passes... GUN-SLINGING??? (again, your inference is incorrect)

3) You're correct backups tend to handle the ball off more than pass, which Book did (again, your inference is incorrect)

Here're an inference for you (actually, it's not, because it's an actual explanation from Kelly's presser. He wanted to use the mop up time to give Book a chance to gain some real game experience.

Why would Kelly do this? Because he doesn't trust his QB? Hell no. That's a dumb inference, he was trying to give him experience if God forbid his running QB pulled a Malik and needed a replacement...

Not only are you over-analyzing the THREE passes, you're not even over-analyzing well.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Happened in 2012 to an extent.

A bittersweet anomaly.