Post Game Thoughts: Boston College

[SonofOahu]

The narrative that the OL hasn't been good has been overblown. Play by play breakdowns by people smarter than all of us have shown McGlinchey and Nelson to be as good as ever. RT the only noticeable struggle. I'd challenge you to find me a OL or DL that doesn't have one slight weakness. Georgia has as good if not better recruits on DL. Won on a couple plays, one happened to be the last play of the game.

Absolutely

 

[SonofOahu]

My litmus test for whether someone has a clue what they're talking about is always to read their opinion of Hiestand. There are a number of acceptable opinions, and then there are those that reveal they know nothing at all about football.

I know a guy, a former All-Pro, who played for Hiestand. He called him the best OL coach that he's ever had.

Anyone who thinks that Hiestand is the problem should really check himself/herself.

 

[Junkhead]

Sure, Wimbush is struggling with reads and throws for that matter. But, other than a very strong GA defense, we are averaging 450yds rushing per game. You don't do that, even against cupcakes, without a decent OL. HH is not the problem. Right now it is having an inexperienced QB along with a new guy calling the plays. Long, "should" be an offensive upgrade, maybe it's just taking some time. I'm not drinking the koolaid, but some of you are just never happy.

 

[Luckylucci]

We had the #1 projected offensive line this year and averaged 14 inches a carry against georgia.
#projectionsarephony

Per usual, you are just making stuff up.

Again, Claypool would be an AA at Bama. Who doesn't even have one themselves. Give it a rest with these stupid hot takes.

 

[Luckylucci]

Seriously? That's quite a spin.

BC had a top 25 projected defense coming into this year. They had the #21 defense last year per S&P, including the #8 rushing defense in the entire country. They had the #22 defense per FEI. And they returned 72% of that production and 7 starters including their best two players.

To this point, if you actually re-watch the UGA game, you'll see plenty of opportunities that OL gave the offense that weren't capalized on. Adams, Wimbush, Canteen, etc. all at fault.

 

[dwshade]

Seriously? That's quite a spin.

BC had a top 25 projected defense coming into this year. They had the #21 defense last year per S&P, including the #8 rushing defense in the entire country. They had the #22 defense per FEI. And they returned 72% of that production and 7 starters including their best two players.

All I heard last week was how good BC's defense was and always is especially against us.

 

[IrishLax]

They just have different styles. Adams is patient - i.e. slower to hit the hole - but with our line against a lot of teams that's enough and like you said, when the hole is there he can take it a long way. Williams is faster to go north-south, which certainly has its advantages but also likely means he misreads some holes. They're both good backs.
I do not know why Tony Jones would be playing over Williams though. Only reason I can guess would be pass protection.

Exactly.

Adams is a prototypical one-cut back that excels in an offense like what Mike Shanahan ran. He doesn't have great lateral quickness or start-stop ability or change of direction. He does excel one he gets to the second level and is a nightmare for DBs and LBs at that point. He needs to get that momentum going to be effective... but once he does, watch out. A good (former) NFL comp for him might be someone like Karlos Williams from FSU in terms of style though Williams ran with more power.

Is is undeniable to anyone with eyeballs that Dexter Williams is quicker to the hole and more explosive at the line of scrimmage. He also shows more burst and athletic ability, and can make plays like we saw against Syracuse last year that you never, ever see Adams make. He may not have better top end speed than Adams, but his first four steps are much faster. Jay Ajayi would be my comp.

 

[IrishLax]

We had the #1 projected offensive line this year and averaged 14 inches a carry against georgia.
#projectionsarephony

Making a joke here or serious?

First of all, it's not "phony" when you return the vast majority of the unit and the projection is based on what those same guys did the year before.

Second of all, if your takeaway from the first three games is that our OL is "bad" I have nothing to say to you. Do people not realize that Georgia has a top 10 front 7 that more importantly plays a Bama-esque 3-4? A defense specifically designed to stop the run first at all costs?

 

[NDinBoston]

Ok, I'm confused.

1. The OL sucks.
2. Josh Adams is slow.
3. YET, Josh Adams got 390 yards on 37 carries for 10.5 YPC against Temple and BC. (He got 2.8 YPC against UGA which is their average in their other 2 games.)
4. Temple is giving up 1.6 YPC this year against their other 2 opponents (#21 in 2016 at 3.58) and BC 3.7 YPC this year in their other two games (#11 in 2016 at 3.34 YPC).

How many yards would Dexter Williams have gotten? 450? 500? 700?

And without creating any issues with pass protection?

I would like to see a "little" more DW but come on. You can argue for more carries for DW without having to bash everyone else - OL, RBs, coaches, etc...

 

[snoopdog]

Ok, I'm confused.

1. The OL sucks.
2. Josh Adams is slow.
3. YET, Josh Adams got 390 yards on 37 carries for 10.5 YPC against Temple and BC. (He got 2.8 YPC against UGA which is their average in their other 2 games.)
4. Temple is giving up 1.6 YPC this year against their other 2 opponents (#21 in 2016 at 3.58) and BC 3.7 YPC this year in their other two games (#11 in 2016 at 3.34 YPC).

How many yards would Dexter Williams have gotten? 450? 500? 700?

And without creating any issues with pass protection?

I would like to see a "little" more DW but come on. You can argue for more carries for DW without having to bash everyone else - OL, RBs, coaches, etc...

My algorithm shows that dexter would have gotten 654324667 yards per quarter against both BC and Temple and only slightly less against Georgia. The algorithm also shows that BK knows this but is to stubborn to change.

And that is why you do math at school.

 

[IrishBoognish]

Sorry for this First post in advance. I've been really conflicted.

I've never seen a Notre Dame team so conflicted. The attitude I'm feeling is top tier. It seems like they really believe. I could link some articles to illustrate my point, but it's really just a feeling. Even when they were up against it at Georgia, they looked fired up.

But....

There's hesitation. It really feels like they could be as good as anyone. Sans SEC. But... .

It's killing me.


Edit: What's up with the million bucks I have? Did I win?

Edit2: Billion? I just called in to work.

Edit3: I'm gonna put it all on the Irish to cover and BW having 255.5+ yards in the air. What kind of odds will that get me?

 

[wizards8507]

Ok, I'm confused.

1. The OL sucks.
2. Josh Adams is slow.
3. YET, Josh Adams got 390 yards on 37 carries for 10.5 YPC against Temple and BC. (He got 2.8 YPC against UGA which is their average in their other 2 games.)
4. Temple is giving up 1.6 YPC this year against their other 2 opponents (#21 in 2016 at 3.58) and BC 3.7 YPC this year in their other two games (#11 in 2016 at 3.34 YPC).

How many yards would Dexter Williams have gotten? 450? 500? 700?

And without creating any issues with pass protection?

I would like to see a "little" more DW but come on. You can argue for more carries for DW without having to bash everyone else - OL, RBs, coaches, etc...

There were two or three specific plays in the Georgia game where there were opportunities for Adams to hit a hole hard and he missed them because he couldn't get there fast enough. Beating up on BC and Temple is the gym class hero move of college football. He looked outclassed in the Georgia game.

 

[irishff1014]

Fire HH?? lol I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. I mean Q has turned out pretty damn good, same can be said about Nick Martin, and how about Stanley? I won't mention Zack Martin cause I don't remember is he was coached by HH. Hainsy is a freshman and was playing against a damn good pass rusher, who I noticed lined up a couple yards outside of the tackle which makes for a very hard block especially in a passing situation. A couple situations the WDE was past the outside shoulder of the TE! I'd like to see anyone make that block rape a freshman who projects to be our next center lol.

Man the season has been a little rough but I swear our fan base would complain if we were to go 12-0 with BK and the staff.

I agree that firing HH would be a mistake right now but the O-line needs to pick it up. They have been somewhat disappointing to me.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Thoroughly impressed with what the run game accomplished Saturday. Passing offensive needs work. Play calling? WR stepping up? Wimbush being more patient? Young season, but that area of the offense needs to get better to prevent teams from loading up the box.

Defense didn't look great early on, but once again, I'm just happy we have a unit that is "good enough" and not one that will actually potentially lose the game.

First time in my lifetime of watching this series did it seem like ND broke BC. That was amazing to witness.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I agree that firing HH would be a mistake right now but the O-line needs to pick it up. They have been disappointing so far.

1 million yards with minimal sacks through 3 weeks.

Fire him.

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[Voltaire]

Fire HH?? lol I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. I mean Q has turned out pretty damn good, same can be said about Nick Martin, and how about Stanley? I won't mention Zack Martin cause I don't remember is he was coached by HH. Hainsy is a freshman and was playing against a damn good pass rusher, who I noticed lined up a couple yards outside of the tackle which makes for a very hard block especially in a passing situation. A couple situations the WDE was past the outside shoulder of the TE! I'd like to see anyone make that block rape a freshman who projects to be our next center lol.

Man the season has been a little rough but I swear our fan base would complain if we were to go 12-0 with BK and the staff.

dear lord that escalated quickly

 

[JohnnyJasper]

NSIAP - Yes we ran the ball well. I'm not impressed by Wimbush at all still. He is subpar at passing the ball at best. Sure he can run, but he wont be able to run like that against Mich. St., or USC or others. Like we saw against Georgia, he misses a lot of throws. He had TONS of time in the pocket on Saturday and couldn't hit a bus if it was sitting out in the middle of the field. We're in for a few more losses this season mainly due to Wimbush not being able to complete passes, especially on 3rd downs. Not to mention, he may have made a few nice moves running w the ball, but he also took some hits to the upper half of his body. Do that vs. MSU/USC/Stanford and we'll probably be throwing Book out there - who actually, had a better ball in the few plays he was in the game Saturday.

The amount of time Wimbush had is ridiculous to not have been able to complete passes. Running for 200 and 4 tds is honestly so irrelevant to me compared to his passing stat line. And sure there may have been a drop or two (none of which were Mack surprisingly) but come on. We have far superior athletes running routes than BC has covering them.

Sure, a win is a win. But Wimbush, like many other recent QB under BK, is overrated. Far too much hype for him in offseason. That's not to say he can't get it together next year, but you can bet there's another L or two on the schedule left.


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[IrishLax]

NSIAP - Yes we ran the ball well. I'm not impressed by Wimbush at all still. He is subpar at passing the ball at best. Sure he can run, but he wont be able to run like that against Mich. St., or USC or others. Like we saw against Georgia, he misses a lot of throws. He had TONS of time in the pocket on Saturday and couldn't hit a bus if it was sitting out in the middle of the field. We're in for a few more losses this season mainly due to Wimbush not being able to complete passes, especially on 3rd downs. Not to mention, he may have made a few nice moves running w the ball, but he also took some hits to the upper half of his body. Do that vs. MSU/USC/Stanford and we'll probably be throwing Book out there - who actually, had a better ball in the few plays he was in the game Saturday.

There are tons of high level teams that have very competent offenses utilizing a run-first QB that is not a good thrower. You just have to commit yourself to it.

For example, Bama put up nearly 400 yards and 31 points on an elite Clemson defense in the NCG despite their QB going 13/31 for 131 yards... why? Because as a team they rushed for 6.5 YPC.

The amount of time Wimbush had is ridiculous to not have been able to complete passes. Running for 200 and 4 tds is honestly so irrelevant

This might be the worst take I've ever read in this thread. If you want to say "the passing game sucks" that's fine... when we have a record setting performance by our QB running the ball against a team that had the #8 rush defense in the country last year AND beat the spread by 2 TDs AND put our biggest whooping on BC in decades you cannot call it "irrelevant."

 

[NDohio]

Offensively that was the game that posters on IE have been wanting for years. Run the ball early and even if it isn't effective keep running so we can wear down a lesser opponent knowing that by the fourth quarter it will pay off. I loved seeing that and I am sure IE was full of positive thoughts as the game plan played out to perfection...

 

[JohnnyJasper]

There are tons of high level teams that have very competent offenses utilizing a run-first QB that is not a good thrower. You just have to commit yourself to it.



For example, Bama put up nearly 400 yards and 31 points on an elite Clemson defense in the NCG despite their QB going 13/31 for 131 yards... why? Because as a team they rushed for 6.5 YPC.







This might be the worst take I've ever read in this thread. If you want to say "the passing game sucks" that's fine... when we have a record setting performance by our QB running the ball against a team that had the #8 rush defense in the country last year AND beat the spread by 2 TDs AND put our biggest whooping on BC in decades you cannot call it "irrelevant."

Okay - the passing game sucks. We'll never make it to the CFP with BW at QB. If you think running for 200 yds against BC means something, you're kind of reaching. Ok its a record setting rushing performance. That's great. Awesome. But it really doesn't matter. We learned one thing from this game - when we can't rush for 400+ yards in a game (99% of the time) we're going to be forced to throw and we don't have a guy we can trust doing that.


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[beryirish]

NSIAP - Yes we ran the ball well. I'm not impressed by Wimbush at all still. He is subpar at passing the ball at best. Sure he can run, but he wont be able to run like that against Mich. St., or USC or others. Like we saw against Georgia, he misses a lot of throws. He had TONS of time in the pocket on Saturday and couldn't hit a bus if it was sitting out in the middle of the field. We're in for a few more losses this season mainly due to Wimbush not being able to complete passes, especially on 3rd downs. Not to mention, he may have made a few nice moves running w the ball, but he also took some hits to the upper half of his body. Do that vs. MSU/USC/Stanford and we'll probably be throwing Book out there - who actually, had a better ball in the few plays he was in the game Saturday.

The amount of time Wimbush had is ridiculous to not have been able to complete passes. Running for 200 and 4 tds is honestly so irrelevant to me compared to his passing stat line. And sure there may have been a drop or two (none of which were Mack surprisingly) but come on. We have far superior athletes running routes than BC has covering them.

Sure, a win is a win. But Wimbush, like many other recent QB under BK, is overrated. Far too much hype for him in offseason. That's not to say he can't get it together next year, but you can bet there's another L or two on the schedule left.


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His passing stat line was 11/24 96 yards 71.1 QBR --- horrible. Some of his passes were also horrible. Had he not decided to run and instead try to fit passes in, that stat line may have been much worse with even some picks sprinkled in.

You can't give up on the pass to keep the defense honest - the OL gave him ample time to pass (I even remember seeing him signal Chase to run opposite of him and BW made a completed pass to him open - good job on OL giving time and BW improvising). This shows the WR's need to get some work in and Del has to get them coached up.

I have zero issue with BW running around if the WR's "aren't doing their job" in getting open. If looking at film, Wimbush lowers his head after two seconds with no pressure just to run when he has open WR's galore then yes that would be an issue that BK and Co. need to address to compose him but right now i don't think that's the issue.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

NSIAP - Yes we ran the ball well. I'm not impressed by Wimbush at all still. He is subpar at passing the ball at best. Sure he can run, but he wont be able to run like that against Mich. St., or USC or others. Like we saw against Georgia, he misses a lot of throws. He had TONS of time in the pocket on Saturday and couldn't hit a bus if it was sitting out in the middle of the field. We're in for a few more losses this season mainly due to Wimbush not being able to complete passes, especially on 3rd downs. Not to mention, he may have made a few nice moves running w the ball, but he also took some hits to the upper half of his body. Do that vs. MSU/USC/Stanford and we'll probably be throwing Book out there - who actually, had a better ball in the few plays he was in the game Saturday.

The amount of time Wimbush had is ridiculous to not have been able to complete passes. Running for 200 and 4 tds is honestly so irrelevant to me compared to his passing stat line. And sure there may have been a drop or two (none of which were Mack surprisingly) but come on. We have far superior athletes running routes than BC has covering them.

Sure, a win is a win. But Wimbush, like many other recent QB under BK, is overrated. Far too much hype for him in offseason. That's not to say he can't get it together next year, but you can bet there's another L or two on the schedule left.


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Three games into his three years career.

Let's trade him.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I cannot believe how sensational this forum has become.

This is not the same IE that I first joined. I miss rational conversations and analysis.

 

[koonja]

Three games into his three years career.

Let's trade him.

Can anyone argue BW hasn't been overrated so far? At least as a passer? He's in year 3. This isn't the NFL where QBs are here for 12 years. You get 1-3 years to show what you can do, it's not uncommon for someone to read a defense, move the chains, and make good throws right away.

There are dozens of first time QBs every year in CFB, most younger than BW, that come in and look like they have a clue.

He's not 'doomed' yet. But he's overrated right now as a passer and I don't think it's debatable.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Okay - the passing game sucks. We'll never make it to the CFP with BW at QB. If you think running for 200 yds against BC means something, you're kind of reaching. Ok its a record setting rushing performance. That's great. Awesome. But it really doesn't matter. We learned one thing from this game - when we can't rush for 400+ yards in a game (99% of the time) we're going to be forced to throw and we don't have a guy we can trust doing that.


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Prove this to me.

Three games into his three year career. Prove to me that he won't develop.

The irrationality and sensationalism of this forum is staggering.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Can anyone argue BW hasn't been overrated so far? At least as a passer? He's in year 3. This isn't the NFL where QBs are here for 12 years. You get 1-3 years to show what you can do, it's not uncommon for someone to read a defense, move the chains, and make good throws right away.

There are dozens of first time QBs every year in CFB, most younger than BW, that come in and look like they have a clue.

He's not 'doomed' yet. But he's overrated right now as a passer and I don't think it's debatable.

He's three years into Long's offense? Oh.

Of course Brandon needs to clean stuff up, I'm not blind. But give the guy some time.

Am I the only one on here that is optimistic? Am I the only the only one that looks at Brandon has a rookie in a new system and thinks, "My goodness, this kid's God given talent is special...give him some time and experience to clean this up and he's going to be special..."

I mean, seriously, his age is mostly irrelevant given he sat the bench the whole last season, has worked scout team in the past, learning a whole new offense (along with other players learning it with him, AND regardless of age, he has only accumulated 3 games work of experience...

Guys, step away from the ledge. His ceiling is high, and he's just entered the arena. Let's not end a guy's career 3 games into his (potential) 39 game career...

 

[koonja]

He's three years into Long's offense? Oh.

Of course Brandon needs to clean stuff up, I'm not blind. But give the guy some time.

Am I the only one on here that is optimistic? Am I the only the only one that looks at Brandon has a rookie in a new system and thinks, "My goodness, this kid's God given talent is special...give him some time and experience to clean this up and he's going to be special..."

I mean, seriously, his age is mostly irrelevant given he sat the bench the whole last season, has worked scout team in the past, learning a whole new offense (along with other players learning it with him, AND regardless of age, he has only accumulated 3 games work of experience...

Guys, step away from the ledge. His ceiling is high, and he's just entered the arena. Let's not end a guy's career 3 games into his (potential) 39 game career...

You don't get time in college football. You get 1-2 years to start if you're lucky. You don't get to treat the 1st year as a learning experience. And you don't need it - as evidenced by the countless RS freshman who come in and lead teams to big seasons.

 

[NDohio]

Can anyone argue BW hasn't been overrated so far? At least as a passer? He's in year 3. This isn't the NFL where QBs are here for 12 years. You get 1-3 years to show what you can do, it's not uncommon for someone to read a defense, move the chains, and make good throws right away.

There are dozens of first time QBs every year in CFB, most younger than BW, that come in and look like they have a clue.

He's not 'doomed' yet. But he's overrated right now as a passer and I don't think it's debatable.

Would you have been happy with Deshaun Watson last year? He had ridiculously bad passing stats last season. There were several games that Clemson's offense was absolutely terrible and their defense bailed them out(or a missed 30 yard field goal from NC State bailed them out), but he won football games.

Brandon Wimbush has played three games. Two of those games were blowout wins and one was a one point loss to one of the top defenses in the country. Let the kid continue to win. Let his passing game improve. Let the season progress - this is a work in progress.

Sheesh this board has become deplorable. We are 2-1 with our wins being blowouts.

Lighten up people...

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

You don't get time in college football. You get 1-2 years to start if you're lucky. You don't get to treat the 1st year as a learning experience. And you don't need it - as evidenced by the countless RS freshman who come in and lead teams to big seasons.

LMFAOOO

You don't get time to develop in college football?

Are you going to tell me freshamn Clausen was on par with junior Clausen?

Lmfao, you simpletons.

 

[koonja]

LMFAOOO

You don't get time to develop in college football?

Are you going to tell me freshamn Clausen was on par with junior Clausen?

Lmfao, you simpletons.

Figure out what % of CFB QBs get to start for 3 years. I'll bet it's about 3%. Clausen is the exception, not the rule.

Not to mention, you're comparing 18 year old, year 1 Clausen to 20 year old, year 3 Wimbush. Wimbush is not a teenager. This isn't his first year in the program.