Post Game Thoughts: Boston College

[dwshade]

Martini has struggled in all three games this year. Coney has had his share of busts but overall has been much more consistent.

Martini did not "struggle" yesterday.

 

[dwshade]

Idk, this isn't a situation like the rb one, where the easy answer is give dexter the ball.

Idk what they need to do - get martini to play better, give Jamir Jones a shot, play Coney more, play Jonathan Jones - I have no idea. I just know martini is not playing well enough.

What RB situation? The one where our best back is averaging 8 yards a carry and has been a beast running the ball? You come up with some crazy s***.

 

[koonja]

What RB situation? The one where our best back is averaging 8 yards a carry and has been a beast running the ball? You come up with some crazy s***.

I truly envy the low standards you hold Martini to. I wish I was satisfied by poor play.

 

[AKRowdy]

Lol answer is to give Dexter the ball while I agree he needs more touches, I also don't understand the logic of benching one of your captains, who has reeled off more breakaway runs in his career than a back-up who is a junior and hasn't been able to do more than special teams. Yes the times he's been able to run the ball look nice but those times are also late in games after the lead is in hand and the offense has worn out the defense.

 

[phgreek]

This is deja vu to the Malik Zaire conversation. It's irrelevant what he's doing with his legs in the context of the conversation. Throwing a couple of good passes doesn't make a good game. That is delusional. He is pretty bad right now throwing the ball. Through 3 games, he's arguably the worst QB we've had from the pocket during Kelly's tenure. He either doesn't understand the route concepts or he's too uncomfortable to let them play out. He is quite literally scrambling into pressure. He has clean pockets and can't see wide open WR's. There is nothing else to it. I think he'll get better but it is what it is. He has not been good from the pocket. Saying he made a couple of good throws is trivial. Who cares. He should make A LOT of good throws. And he should make even more simple throws, which he isnt even doing.

It's pretty funny having this conversation really and even the coaches were noticeably dumbfounded how he couldn't complete easy passes. So was ESB.

all of this is pretty much on...but ESB should shut his fucking pie hole and make some plays too.

I rewatched the game and yes BW has an accuracy issue, and he has no pocket presence...at present which makes ESB's presence critical.

I scribbled a couple notes while re-watching the first half. Here is what I saw.

1st quarter
First pass play...Smyth gets run off the ball by dbacks he outweighs by 50 lbs and has 6" in height on. I'm sorry, that can't happen....I'd have purple faced him.

1:31 left, Wimbush puts it where it needed to be, not sure where in the hell ESB thought the ball would be but he adjusted poorly/late, and still had a chance, but flat missed it. Went right through his hands.

Both those plays were big, 20+ yard throws, one of which should have been caught for sure.

2nd quarter
5:20 left in 2nd quarter Wimbush throws an out on 3rd and 3 to Claypool. Sails on him a little, but the receiver STUMBLES OUT OF HIS BREAK, AAAND is late getting his head around, and reacts late jumping as the ball is already on him...just gets a hand on it. That is EASILY a catchable ball if the receiver gets into his break cleanly, and out of his break ready to attack the ball. Would he had to have jumped...probably. Do I expect that catch to be made...yup...every single time.


To this point Wimbush has thrown some completions to Mack, and one each to EQ and Adams...and is under duress for most of them, and the incompletions are not his fault.

3:31 left 2nd quarter, 1st and 10, Wimbush throws to St. Brown, who adjusts to the ball fluidly, makes a hell of a leaping effort, but it goes RIGHT THROUGH HIS HANDS...I watched it one frame at a time...he had a chance to make that play...and needs to. Mostly on Wimbush, but those are they plays you need from your receiver corps when the QB is struggling.

2:44 left in 2nd quarter, 1st and goal. Wimbush puts the ball on Mack in stride who is headed for 6...play whistled dead on false start call.

very Next play St. Brown gets caught up in the middle on a crossing route, comes out late, and Wimbush misses him high. But again if you go frame by frame, EQ has a shot at this, and it goes RIGHT THROUGH HIS HANDS.

The Interception...Wimbush fires a shot over the middle, has EQ with separation...but after contact with the DB in the break...EQ comes out flat, and I can't tell if that was supposed to be a post or a square in route. EQ gets a finger tip on it...Picked off.
End of half.

WIMBUSH 8/17 57 yards. I think A couple were intentionally chucked OOB. And I think it is fair to say two others should have been caught....so his performance was more on pace for a 10 for 15 half with 100 yards. Not stellar, but better. If the receivers come up with half the balls that were tough catches, the score is different and so are Wimbush's stats and confidence. He has issues, but they are not being helped by ESB thinking his job is to catch the easy balls.


Edit:

Second half had Fink And ESB dropping balls they should have caught...and both had one where BW overshot them so badly they had no chance. BW also put the ball on Mack, Smythe (very nice ball), and Fink maybe. By my estimates he performed well enough to be 60% completion percentage w/ ~ 165 yards. Still not good enough, and he still has other pocket presence issues...but receivers need to step up.

 

[Irishman77]

all of this is pretty much on...but ESB should shut his fucking pie hole and make some plays too.

I rewatched the game and yes BW has an accuracy issue, and he has no pocket presence...at present which makes ESB's presence critical.

I scribbled a couple notes while re-watching the first half. Here is what I saw.

1st quarter
First pass play...Smyth gets run off the ball by dbacks he outweighs by 50 lbs and has 6" in height on. I'm sorry, that can't happen....I'd have purple faced him.

1:31 left, Wimbush puts it where it needed to be, not sure where in the hell ESB thought the ball would be but he adjusted poorly/late, and still had a chance, but flat missed it. Went right through his hands.

Both those plays were big, 20+ yard throws, one of which should have been caught for sure.

2nd quarter
5:20 left in 2nd quarter Wimbush throws an out on 3rd and 3 to Claypool. Sails on him a little, but the receiver STUMBLES OUT OF HIS BREAK, AAAND is late getting his head around, and reacts late jumping as the ball is already on him...just gets a hand on it. That is EASILY a catchable ball if the receiver gets into his break cleanly, and out of his break ready to attack the ball. Would he had to have jumped...probably. Do I expect that catch to be made...yup...every single time.


To this point Wimbush has thrown some completions to Mack, and one each to EQ and Adams...and is under duress for most of them, and the incompletions are not his fault.

3:31 left 2nd quarter, 1st and 10, Wimbush throws to St. Brown, who adjusts to the ball fluidly, makes a hell of a leaping effort, but it goes RIGHT THROUGH HIS HANDS...I watched it one frame at a time...he had a chance to make that play...and needs to. Mostly on Wimbush, but those are they plays you need from your receiver corps when the QB is struggling.

2:44 left in 2nd quarter, 1st and goal. Wimbush puts the ball on Mack in stride who is headed for 6...play whistled dead on false start call.

very Next play St. Brown gets caught up in the middle on a crossing route, comes out late, and Wimbush misses him high. But again if you go frame by frame, EQ has a shot at this, and it goes RIGHT THROUGH HIS HANDS.

The Interception...Wimbush fires a shot over the middle, has EQ with separation...but after contact with the DB in the break...EQ comes out flat, and I can't tell if that was supposed to be a post or a square in route. EQ gets a finger tip on it...Picked off.
End of half.

WIMBUSH 8/17 57 yards. I think A couple were intentionally chucked OOB. And I think it is fair to say two others should have been caught....so his performance was more on pace for a 10 for 15 half with 100 yards. Not stellar, but better. If the receivers come up with half the balls that were tough catches, the score is different and so are Wimbush's stats and confidence. He has issues, but they are not being helped by ESB thinking his job is to catch the easy balls.

Great post. Kelly gives the piss poor excuse on how players don't get opportunities because they lack attention to details. However several players can stink it up all game and get a pass.
ESB smythe bars hainsy kraemer are off to a terrible year.

Yes I know hainsy is a fr and I think he will very good if we fire Heistand

 

[GowerND11]

Josh is the man!!

Had not noticed it in earlier games but noticed against BC he was wearing a single knee brace. Is this new? He seemed to stumble or stutter step on his first big run and that brace really caught my eye. Any news? Cheers!

Josh tore his ACL his junior year of high school. He has worn the brace ever since.

 

[Legacy]

Would love to see what Dexter Williams could do as a WR.

 

[Greenore]

Josh tore his ACL his junior year of high school. He has worn the brace ever since.

Thanks for the reply. Apparently, my powers of observation ain't that good. Cheers!

 

[IrishLax]

I got to watch the whole game on the train today and here are my thoughts:
-The defense was at best a C-.... they did not have a good game. Front 7 was not disruptive against the run or the pass. They gave up 400 yards to a bad BC team. They had 340 against NIU and 305 against Wake. That's a very poor showing, although to be fair BC's offense executed at a really high level making some very good throws and catches you don't usually see. It wasn't like guys were wide open.
-BC's defense never gets shredded like that. Was Georgia just a complete anomaly because of the talent in their front 7?
-How they're coordinating the run game is great as long as OL can sustain blocks. The passing game is extremely stupid. We need to be running an offense like OSU did with Cardale Jones and Penn State does now... fewer screens and shallow crosses and other BS, more 50/50 shots downfield. Wimbush's advantage is his arm strength NOT his ability to be Alex Smith dinking and dunking his way down the field. Most good college offenses don't ask their QB to go through progressions, they scheme open the primary read the best they can and then have a check down. And some of the rollout shit they called was beyond dumb, and makes me shudder just thinking about it.
-ND badly needs a consistent WR that can get separation. Wimbush also needs to be better but like I said above they're also asking him to do things that don't fit his strengths. We can probably get through the next 3 games as is but the offensive staff needs to have their shit figured out by USC.

 

[irishandy]

Josh Adams is slow in the open field? LOL

Wimbush is injury prone? News to me.

I think Dexter is the quicker of the 2 between he and Josh Adams. When Adams is good he is good, but to me he looks slower at times when he breaks loose.

Wimbush injury prone, yes that's what I said-- 12 rushes against Temple, 16 against Georgia, and 21 against Boston College. Give some touches to our running backs.

 

[NDinBoston]

I think it's assumed Stepherson is on a 4 game suspension. Taylor isn't close to playing. Holmes did not play. The 4th RB was McIntosh.

Player Notes

Dew-Treadway: First Game Played this Season (Injured?)
Fertitta: First Game Played this Season (Injured?)

INJ
Jones Jr: Wonder if he'll heal in time for MSU
Stepherson: Any idea how long he's suspended for?
Elijah Taylor: How long till he's back?
Weishar: Looks like concussion kept him out. Will he be ok next week?
Cam Smith: Will his ankle be a multiple week thing?
Nick Coleman: How bad's the shoulder?

OTHER
CJ Holmes: Did Kelly seriously burn his redshirt today? And for what purpose? He's 5th string RB

Great catch, I saw that too.

From und.com:
Notre Dame Football :: UND.COM :: The Official Site of Notre Dame Athletics

Participation report:
Notre Dame: 2-WILLIAMS, D., 3-SANDERS, 4A-VANGORDER, 4-CONEY, 5A-KAREEM, 8-VAUGHN, 10-FINKE, 11-CANTEEN, 12-BOOK, 13-GENMARK-HEATH, 14-STUDSTILL, 16-HOLMES, C.J., 17-ROBERTSON, I., 18-PRIDE, 19-YOON, 20-CRAWFORD, 22-BILAL, 26-WEBSTER, 28-FERTITTA, 32-MORGAN, D.J., 34-JONES, T., 38-McINTOSH, 39-DOERER, 41-HINISH, 42-OKWARA, J., 44-JONES, Jamir, 45-JONES, Jonathan, 54-SHANNON, 57-RUHLAND, 70-BIVIN, 72-HAINSEY, 74-EICHENBERG, 81-BOYKIN, 82-WEISHAR, 84-KMET, 85-NEWSOME, 87-YOUNG, Michael, 89-WRIGHT, 91-OGUNDEJI, 95-TAGOVAILOA-AMOS, 97-DEW-TREADWAY, 98-TRUMBETTI.

He was credited with a tackle so likely late-game ST? I don't know the specific rule but I know you don't lose eligibility for one appearance in the first few games. I also think he will be a special player so who knows what the coaching staff plans for him.

 

[koonja]

Adams has the agility of Bran Stark. Dexter is significantly quicker at hitting the hole and finding space. There is NOTHING Dexter doesn't do well. He even finishes runs hard, and is 215 lbs.

Adams is so slow in the hole, hes great when he get a past the Lbs, and he'll have great games against inferior opponents.

But when it matters, you need a guy like dexter in there. Dexter should have been in for Georgia. He'd actually have given us a chance at a running game.

 

[AKRowdy]

Great post. Kelly gives the piss poor excuse on how players don't get opportunities because they lack attention to details. However several players can stink it up all game and get a pass.
ESB smythe bars hainsy kraemer are off to a terrible year.

Yes I know hainsy is a fr and I think he will very good if we fire Heistand

Fire HH?? lol I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. I mean Q has turned out pretty damn good, same can be said about Nick Martin, and how about Stanley? I won't mention Zack Martin cause I don't remember is he was coached by HH. Hainsy is a freshman and was playing against a damn good pass rusher, who I noticed lined up a couple yards outside of the tackle which makes for a very hard block especially in a passing situation. A couple situations the WDE was past the outside shoulder of the TE! I'd like to see anyone make that block rape a freshman who projects to be our next center lol.

Man the season has been a little rough but I swear our fan base would complain if we were to go 12-0 with BK and the staff.

 

[STLDomer]

There is NOTHING Dexter doesn't do well.

C'mon man lol.

 

[Irishman77]

Fire HH?? lol I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this. I mean Q has turned out pretty damn good, same can be said about Nick Martin, and how about Stanley? I won't mention Zack Martin cause I don't remember is he was coached by HH. Hainsy is a freshman and was playing against a damn good pass rusher, who I noticed lined up a couple yards outside of the tackle which makes for a very hard block especially in a passing situation. A couple situations the WDE was past the outside shoulder of the TE! I'd like to see anyone make that block rape a freshman who projects to be our next center lol.

Man the season has been a little rough but I swear our fan base would complain if we were to go 12-0 with BK and the staff.

Why are we starting a fr at tackle if HH is so good at recruiting?

Why do we get pushed around and fail to give our qb 3 seconds to pass the ball?

Why do we have 4 and 5 star players on the line and never live up to the preseason hype?
Take a look at the top 25 it is fantastic what they get done with half the talent.

 

[dad4aa]

I think a lot of you are on the wrong site. This is Irish Envy not NDNation.

 

[STLDomer]

The narrative that the OL hasn't been good has been overblown. Play by play breakdowns by people smarter than all of us have shown McGlinchey and Nelson to be as good as ever. RT the only noticeable struggle. I'd challenge you to find me a OL or DL that doesn't have one slight weakness. Georgia has as good if not better recruits on DL. Won on a couple plays, one happened to be the last play of the game.

 

[irish o'phile]

The narrative that the OL hasn't been good has been overblown. Play by play breakdowns by people smarter than all of us have shown McGlinchey and Nelson to be as good as ever. RT the only noticeable struggle. I'd challenge you to find me a OL or DL that doesn't have one slight weakness. Georgia has as good if not better recruits on DL. Won on a couple plays, one happened to be the last play of the game.

I agree after watching the BC game. I thought Georgia was owning the line because BW kept getting squirrelly in the pocket, but that is just what he does, even.if he doesn't need to. He needs to calm down.

 

[STLDomer]

The narrative that the OL hasn't been good has been overblown. Play by play breakdowns by people smarter than all of us have shown McGlinchey and Nelson to be as good as ever. RT the only noticeable struggle. I'd challenge you to find me a OL or DL that doesn't have one slight weakness. Georgia has as good if not better recruits on DL. Won on a couple plays, one happened to be the last play of the game.

Also since we are in the BC thread, Harold Landry was credited with 1 tackle and 0 hurries (hurries part not accurate from my watching of the game but still). That takes some damn good OL play and more important, game planning from Hiestand.

 

[IrishLax]

My litmus test for whether someone has a clue what they're talking about is always to read their opinion of Hiestand. There are a number of acceptable opinions, and then there are those that reveal they know nothing at all about football.

 

[AKRowdy]

Maybe the freshman is just that good that he comes in better than the other recruits. I have also noticed BW gets squirrelly in the pocket when he has time so he just straight up runs. Also I'd like to see any lineman with the perfect kick step try to pick up a fast edge rusher lining up 4 yards away from you. But hopefully this is corrected over time. Having 3 100+ rushers and then rushing for over 400 yards is living up to the hype. Lets see how the rest of the season pans out before you write off the whole unit.

As to the Dexter doing everything better lmao apparently smarter people than us think differently. And how can one say that if a) only see a small sample size and b) never been to a practice lol there may be a reason Tony Jones Jr passed him on the depth chart.

 

[dwshade]

Adams has the agility of Bran Stark. Dexter is significantly quicker at hitting the hole and finding space. There is NOTHING Dexter doesn't do well. He even finishes runs hard, and is 215 lbs.

Adams is so slow in the hole, hes great when he get a past the Lbs, and he'll have great games against inferior opponents.

But when it matters, you need a guy like dexter in there. Dexter should have been in for Georgia. He'd actually have given us a chance at a running game.

LOL!!! How clueless can one person be.

 

[PerthDomer]

So what happens next year when we lose 4 on the offensive line? I anticipate another year of struggling to reach the LOS. People are ticked because at this stage of development the OL should be dominant and they got pushed around by our one opponent with a pulse.

 

[STLDomer]

So what happens next year when we lose 4 on the offensive line? I anticipate another year of struggling to reach the LOS. People are ticked because at this stage of development the OL should be dominant and they got pushed around by our one opponent with a pulse.

We don't lose 4.

 

[Buster Bluth]

LOL!!! How clueless can one person be.

Just drop it now. I stated my preference for Cierre Wood over Theo Riddick and he kept on it for years.

 

[PerthDomer]

We don't lose 4.

Ah i was confused by the senior thing. So bars and mustipher have another year? Still starting 4 seniors at OL with a rs 5 star frosh in the wings... if it was an elite unit we sustain a run game vs georgia and wimbush isnt repeatedly decapitated.

 

[IrishLax]

So what happens next year when we lose 4 on the offensive line? I anticipate another year of struggling to reach the LOS. People are ticked because at this stage of development the OL should be dominant and they got pushed around by our one opponent with a pulse.

Seriously? That's quite a spin.

BC had a top 25 projected defense coming into this year. They had the #21 defense last year per S&P, including the #8 rushing defense in the entire country. They had the #22 defense per FEI. And they returned 72% of that production and 7 starters including their best two players.

 

[stlnd01]

Adams has the agility of Bran Stark. Dexter is significantly quicker at hitting the hole and finding space. There is NOTHING Dexter doesn't do well. He even finishes runs hard, and is 215 lbs.

Adams is so slow in the hole, hes great when he get a past the Lbs, and he'll have great games against inferior opponents.

But when it matters, you need a guy like dexter in there. Dexter should have been in for Georgia. He'd actually have given us a chance at a running game.

They just have different styles. Adams is patient - i.e. slower to hit the hole - but with our line against a lot of teams that's enough and like you said, when the hole is there he can take it a long way. Williams is faster to go north-south, which certainly has its advantages but also likely means he misreads some holes. They're both good backs.
I do not know why Tony Jones would be playing over Williams though. Only reason I can guess would be pass protection.

 

[Irishman77]

Seriously? That's quite a spin.

BC had a top 25 projected defense coming into this year. They had the #21 defense last year per S&P, including the #8 rushing defense in the entire country. They had the #22 defense per FEI. And they returned 72% of that production and 7 starters including their best two players.

We had the #1 projected offensive line this year and averaged 14 inches a carry against georgia.
#projectionsarephony