Post Game Observations (Pitt)...

[NDinFL]

The hernia issue was still lingering with him

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The hernia issue was still lingering with him

Coming from someone who's had a hernia: the thought of getting in and out of a three point stance at 300+ lbs all while running, sliding, and pushing makes me queasy. Mine was months ago and I still cringe when lifting weights or doing anything that requires agility. It definitely takes time to get confidence in your body back.

 

[koonja]

Coming from someone who's had a hernia: the thought of getting in and out of a three point stance at 300+ lbs all while running, sliding, and pushing makes me queasy. Mine was months ago and I still cringe when lifting weights or doing anything that requires agility. It definitely takes time to get confidence in your body back.

Pics or it doesn't happen.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Pics or it doesn't happen.

I'll see if I can dig up a few shots of me carrying a case of Zima, or playing "Dance Dance Revolution," as both should qualify.

 

[IrishLax]

What do you mean? Did you hear that somehow?

I mean what I said. I've heard from three separate people -- only one being an ND guy and I think he was half kidding -- that Stanford players are juiced out of their minds. The other two people I heard it from were a USC guy and a friend who went to Stanford... we were grabbing drinks in San Fran and it came up in conversation talking about our respective football programs, recruiting, and player development. It wasn't even an "I heard a rumor..." or "I think..." it was "there are a bunch of guys on some really good sh*t... that's how our 'player development' is so good."

But I mean this isn't unique. Happens basically everywhere in every sport to some degree. I've also heard Oregon is all about the juice and everyone knows USC had a bunch of juicers in the Cushing era. I have no idea who, if anyone, juices on ND's team because I'm not going to ask because I wouldn't want to hear the answer.

 

[IrishLion]

It's up to the individual universities to test for performance enhancing substances, isn't it?

 

[returnofthemack]

I mean what I said. I've heard from three separate people -- only one being an ND guy and I think he was half kidding -- that Stanford players are juiced out of their minds. The other two people I heard it from were a USC guy and a friend who went to Stanford... we were grabbing drinks in San Fran and it came up in conversation talking about our respective football programs, recruiting, and player development. It wasn't even an "I heard a rumor..." or "I think..." it was "there are a bunch of guys on some really good sh*t... that's how our 'player development' is so good."

But I mean this isn't unique. Happens basically everywhere in every sport to some degree. I've also heard Oregon is all about the juice and everyone knows USC had a bunch of juicers in the Cushing era. I have no idea who, if anyone, juices on ND's team because I'm not going to ask because I wouldn't want to hear the answer.

Yep. Happens all over and happens at ND too unfortunately.

 

[koonja]

I mean what I said. I've heard from three separate people -- only one being an ND guy and I think he was half kidding -- that Stanford players are juiced out of their minds. The other two people I heard it from were a USC guy and a friend who went to Stanford... we were grabbing drinks in San Fran and it came up in conversation talking about our respective football programs, recruiting, and player development. It wasn't even an "I heard a rumor..." or "I think..." it was "there are a bunch of guys on some really good sh*t... that's how our 'player development' is so good."

But I mean this isn't unique. Happens basically everywhere in every sport to some degree. I've also heard Oregon is all about the juice and everyone knows USC had a bunch of juicers in the Cushing era. I have no idea who, if anyone, juices on ND's team because I'm not going to ask because I wouldn't want to hear the answer.

If I had to guess, Tommy, Heggie, and Farley.

But seriously, how the **** is this stuff not tested for repeatedly? I had no idea about this.

 

[returnofthemack]

It's tested for, but not everybody is tested. They test "random" players.

 

[FearTheBeard]

If I had to guess, Tommy, Heggie, and Farley.

But seriously, how the **** is this stuff not tested for repeatedly? I had no idea about this.

My guess is Fox and Carlisle...

 

[gkIrish]

I mean what I said. I've heard from three separate people -- only one being an ND guy and I think he was half kidding -- that Stanford players are juiced out of their minds. The other two people I heard it from were a USC guy and a friend who went to Stanford... we were grabbing drinks in San Fran and it came up in conversation talking about our respective football programs, recruiting, and player development. It wasn't even an "I heard a rumor..." or "I think..." it was "there are a bunch of guys on some really good sh*t... that's how our 'player development' is so good."

But I mean this isn't unique. Happens basically everywhere in every sport to some degree. I've also heard Oregon is all about the juice and everyone knows USC had a bunch of juicers in the Cushing era. I have no idea who, if anyone, juices on ND's team because I'm not going to ask because I wouldn't want to hear the answer.

 

[NDPhilly]

Ill take Braxston Cave for 500 Alex.

 

[GoIrish41]

Why are we speculating about individuals on ND who are potentially juicing? Has there been a rumor or accusation? If not, I find it wildly inappropriate to call names.

 

[koonja]

Why are we speculating about individuals on ND who are potentially juicing? Has there been a rumor or accusation? If not, I find it wildly inappropriate to call names.

I think everyone has been joking so far. If the NCAA doesn't test, I couldn't care less if they juice or not. Even playing field. I wouldn't think any less of the ND players for doing so. But I really wish the NCAA tested that stuff. It'd be best if NO one was doing it.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Not to offend anyone, but I'll give my outsider's view. Here are the things I've noticed:

1. Conditioning, strength, and raw physical toughness need improvement.

2. Tackling and bad angles are a constant problem.

3. Players make mistakes, but when they make the same ones over & over, they aren't being taught and corrected.

4. Everybody does it sometimes, but ND is consistently playing up or down to their opponent's level instead of playing to their own level.

5. Defensive schemes and offensive play calling is too predictable, vanilla, and simple.

6. Too few players showing improvement, mastering the fundamentals, knowing their assignments correctly, being properly motivated, or being in top condition.

All of this indicates to me a problem with coaching. I think Kelly is a good to very good coach with the potential to be a very good to elite HC, but 99% of the problems I've seen and read you guys complaining about seem to fall on the position coaches and coordinators just not doing a particularly good job.

ND has talent and the ND brand makes recruiting top talent relatively easy, but the assistants have to develop those players, do a better job of teaching them, correcting their mistakes, and get more out of them than they've been doing. It may be time for Kelly to do a major overhaul of his staff.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I think everyone has been joking so far. If the NCAA doesn't test, I couldn't care less if they juice or not. Even playing field. I wouldn't think any less of the ND players for doing so. But I really wish the NCAA tested that stuff. It'd be best if NO one was doing it.

The NCAA does do random testing. The program has an extremely low positive rate (something like 1/2 of 1%) which could be due to underfunded, low tech testing or some other factors I don't understand.

 

[Redbar]

The other thing is how well blocked Holtz's Special Teams were. That 1988 Return by Watters started with Watters having a huge hole to get up to full running speed, and then he had only the kicker to beat. Kelly's Special teams do not block well and do not contain or tackle well. We have plenty enough speed/playmakers to have good Special Teams. What we do not have is good blocking and tackling.

The reason Holtz's team blocked, tackled and demonstrated great toughness and Coach Kelly's teams struggle at times IMO is Holtz ran a power offense, which meant the defense practiced everyday with a power offensive team ergo they had to play very tough and physical style, so you had a pretty tough physical team overall. This spread scheme we run IMO negates the size and physical advantage that we traditionally have been able to recruit and exploit. Spread teams usually are smaller faster teams, they usually don't have tough physical defenses to compliment them and they usually don't win Championships. The spread has had great success in some places and in some circumstances, I think the Notre Dame spread offense experiment is realizing some unforeseen??? growing pains. (Difficulty in short yardage and goaline offense, special teams toughness, and 2nd and 3rd level defensive tackling.)

 

[ulukinatme]

I believe he's had lingering back issues too. Back issues for big guys=perpetual problem.

This is truth, from personal experience. It's not the same for everyone, but sometimes after back surgery there are some things you can't or shouldn't do again. That includes certain lifts, exercises, or activities. It doesn't mean you can't do them, but it's not advised. I'm not sure how a sports hernia is different than a couple ruptured discs though.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Yep. Happens all over and happens at ND too unfortunately.

Oh really?

 

[Junkhead]

The reason Holtz's team blocked, tackled and demonstrated great toughness and Coach Kelly's teams struggle at times IMO is Holtz ran a power offense, which meant the defense practiced everyday with a power offensive team ergo they had to play very tough and physical style, so you had a pretty tough physical team overall. This spread scheme we run IMO negates the size and physical advantage that we traditionally have been able to recruit and exploit. Spread teams usually are smaller faster teams, they usually don't have tough physical defenses to compliment them and they usually don't win Championships. The spread has had great success in some places and in some circumstances, I think the Notre Dame spread offense experiment is realizing some unforeseen??? growing pains. (Difficulty in short yardage and goaline offense, special teams toughness, and 2nd and 3rd level defensive tackling.)

ND's OL is built like a power team, but the spread emphasizes quickness. Either way, running the spread with a non-mobile QB is an exercise in futility.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

ND's OL is built like a power team, but the spread emphasizes quickness. Either way, running the spread with a non-mobile QB is an exercise in futility.

It is a Golson-caused mess. We'd be a really formidable team with him around. Really good offense built to run a spread with an outstanding back up in Tommy. Everyone blames Kelly for the mess. I'm frankly a bit surprised that we've held up (to be honest, I'm not sure if this statement matches up with previous posts from a few months ago).

 

[Bluto]

I'm not a big fan of the spread. Puts way too much of the success or failure in the hands of one player (QB) and if that guy struggles the whole offense falls apart. Watching Mariotta fold against Stanford is a perfect example. Same with Rees and even Golson at times last year. Makes even less sense when you look at the personell ND has. Guess we shall see next year.

 

[Redbar]

ND's OL is built like a power team, but the spread emphasizes quickness. Either way, running the spread with a non-mobile QB is an exercise in futility.

I was responding to someone who was questioning the lack of toughness and tackling on special teams and in the secondary. Our o-line is built for power but we do not run a power scheme that is why we routinely struggle in goaline and short yardage situations and why we resort to empty shotgun sets. We do not commit to overpowering smaller inferior d-lines. IMO that has to do with the scheme and also the philosophy of the coaches within it.

Agree that things would be better with a mobile quarterback tho.

 

[Junkhead]

I was responding to someone who was questioning the lack of toughness and tackling on special teams and in the secondary. Our o-line is built for power but we do not run a power scheme that is why we routinely struggle in goaline and short yardage situations and why we resort to empty shotgun sets. We do not commit to overpowering smaller inferior d-lines. IMO that has to do with the scheme and also the philosophy of the coaches within it.

It is infuriating when we have to throw a fade from the 1 against Navy. (or someone similarly out matched.) I'm not a coach, or even an expert, but why is this staff so afraid to just let them line up and fight? Spread or not, ND should be able to line up and stomp these weaker teams. Every other team does.

 

[Redbar]

It is infuriating when we have to throw a fade from the 1 against Navy. (or someone similarly out matched.) I'm not a coach, or even an expert, but why is this staff so afraid to just let them line up and fight? Spread or not, ND should be able to line up and stomp these weaker teams. Every other team does.

I'm just to your port, but in the same boat as you. I cannot answer those questions either.

 

[ACamp1900]

Over the last day... My observation is more centered on this fanbase... ( All over the internet and such, not just at IE) Seems there is a serious disconnect somewhere... It seems on one end you have a base that saw the growth last year and was ready to finally move forward after two decades of frustration... And they melted down... On the other it seems we have a segment that not only expected 8 wins, but is almost fine with it... And the two sides are just cutting each others throats.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Over the last day... My observation is more centered on this fanbase... ( All over the internet and such, not just at IE) Seems there is a serious disconnect somewhere... It seems on one end you have a base that saw the growth last year and was ready to finally move forward after two decades of frustration... And they melted down... On the other it seems we have a segment that not only expected 8 wins, but is almost fine with it... And the two sides are just cutting each others throats.

That's not true! YOu're a jerk!!

Wins!!! Fullback!!! Potential!!!


*I actually think you're right on. Reps.

 

[Jerry]

The reason Holtz's team blocked, tackled and demonstrated great toughness and Coach Kelly's teams struggle at times IMO is Holtz ran a power offense, which meant the defense practiced everyday with a power offensive team ergo they had to play very tough and physical style, so you had a pretty tough physical team overall. This spread scheme we run IMO negates the size and physical advantage that we traditionally have been able to recruit and exploit. Spread teams usually are smaller faster teams, they usually don't have tough physical defenses to compliment them and they usually don't win Championships. The spread has had great success in some places and in some circumstances, I think the Notre Dame spread offense experiment is realizing some unforeseen??? growing pains. (Difficulty in short yardage and goaline offense, special teams toughness, and 2nd and 3rd level defensive tackling.)

Florida ran the spread when Urban was there, they did pretty well. I'm not the biggest fan of the offense but what I do know is it takes a certain type of QB to run it to perfection. Kelly has been here for 4 years and I'm guessing 70-80% of the snaps have been taken by Rees. Last season was the only time we got a glimpse of the spread with a QB fit to run it and it was a pretty good glimpse IMO.

 

[Redbar]

I totally agree with the assertion that we would be a lot better with a spread quarterback running the spread, I also agree that Florida did well with it, that is why I said, "The spread has had great success in some places and some circumstances". But in Florida's case it was essentially a spread power running attack, Tebow was not slinging it, he was killing people with his legs. Also it was fairly new to major college football at that time. My point is we have big physical type personnel and we are running a scheme that does not emphasize that advantage. So we are a little "slow" for the spread, and schematically not definitive with the power game. People ooh and ahh over Stanford but they have the benefit of having a singular goal in recruiting, and singular purpose on Saturday: to try and pound you, nothing too cute. They will never get the hype of Oregon week in and week out, but they handle themselves well when they play them. Again, IMO the spread is limiting. No one is built for it or better at it than Oregon, but year in and year out they are exposed by someone and it is almost always somebody who plays power football.

 

[Buster Bluth]

This spread scheme we run IMO negates the size and physical advantage that we traditionally have been able to recruit and exploit.

I mean it's no Power-I, but it's not really abandoning physicality either. This team controls the end of the LOS better than any of Kelly's Notre Dame teams. For some reason they just can't block up the middle for ****.

It's important to note that nearly everyone recruited power in Holtz's day, football has progressed past that. And it swung towards...

Spread teams usually are smaller faster teams,

...that. I totally agree. But then guys like Urban Meyer (ugh) came along and meshed the two together and created the power spread. This, I theorize, is where Brian Kelly (wisely) wants to take the program. A fusion of Ohio State/Stanford/New England Patriots is the direction this offense needs to take, and can be there in a year or two. They've recruited the hell out of TEs and OLs (muuuuch better than Ohio State, I might add), and the RB recruits have the power to get it done.

I do agree that Notre Dame will just have better success following a Stanford recruiting model (i.e. heavy on the "big skill" TEs and never enough OL), because those kids are more easily found in Notre Dame areas and raised in Notre Dame-type families. The less the Irish have to rely on speed, the better.