Political Correctness thread

[kmoose]

Not if it's race-based. When it's framed as white people as the givers and black people as the receivers, it's explicitly racist. The noble goals you're describing would also allow for successful black people to help out poor white people, white people helping white people, and black people helping black people. As it's structured, this is built around guilt, not generosity.

Then don't participate. But don't speak down about those that choose TO participate. It's a voluntary thing. It is no different, really, than me volunteering my handyman skills to any parishioner in my Church via the weekly Bulletin.

 

[kmoose]

What wiz said. You can't call something "Reparations" and think that it will bring anyone together.

I would certainly change the name. But your logic is flawed. No one is driving this and enforcing it on anyone. It will bring people together because the people who participate WANT to do something. But, like I said......... you will have to treat it like Craigslist, and understand the risks involved in dealing with people you have never met.

 

[gkIrish]

I would certainly change the name. But your logic is flawed. No one is driving this and enforcing it on anyone. It will bring people together because the people who participate WANT to do something. But, like I said......... you will have to treat it like Craigslist, and understand the risks involved in dealing with people you have never met.

The people that will do this are the same people who already get along just fine with each other. Not one single white person who is a racist or even indifferent to race is going to participate in this.

 

[wizards8507]

It is no different, really, than me volunteering my handyman skills to any parishioner in my Church via the weekly Bulletin.

Yes, it's very different than that. The appropriate analogy would be you volunteering your handyman skills, but only to a black parishioner because you don't think black people are capable of having handyman skills.

 

[kmoose]

Yes, it's very different than that. The appropriate analogy would be you volunteering your handyman skills, but only to a black parishioner because you don't think black people are capable of having handyman skills.

Where did you get that anyone thinks that the recipients are incapable? And no one is stopping you from helping white people, too. They are just offering you a tool to connect specifically with black people in need. The same way that the Church Bulletin doesn't keep you from helping a Jew, a Muslim, or someone from another parish; it just offers you a conduit to people from your own parish.

For fuck's sake.......... are you honestly trying to tell me that there is something wrong with offering people a path to connect their skills with others who are in need of them?

 

[IrishLion]

This is the same as the Ghostbusters thing haha.

If you don't like the idea of the movie... then don't go see it.

If you don't like the idea of helping minorities through a website that specifically caters to minorities... then don't offer your services.

 

[wizards8507]

Where did you get that anyone thinks that the recipients are incapable? And no one is stopping you from helping white people, too. They are just offering you a tool to connect specifically with black people in need. The same way that the Church Bulletin doesn't keep you from helping a Jew, a Muslim, or someone from another parish; it just offers you a conduit to people from your own parish.

Again, this analogy is crap. This program does exactly what you say it doesn't do. The program would be like you, as a Catholic, advertising your services only in a Jewish publication because you feel guilty that your great great grandfather was anti-Semitic.

For fuck's sake.......... are you honestly trying to tell me that there is something wrong with offering people a path to connect their skills with others who are in need of them?

The nasty implication of this program is that black people are, by default, needy. That's disgusting.

 

[kmoose]

Again, this analogy is crap. This program does exactly what you say it doesn't do. The program would be like you, as a Catholic, advertising your services only in a Jewish publication because you feel guilty that your great great grandfather was anti-Semitic.


The nasty implication of this program is that black people are, by default, needy. That's disgusting.

For the love of all that is holy........ how do you manage to tie your shoes in the morning?

So everyone who has donated to habitat for humanity has done so out of guilt? And heaven forbid a white carpenter volunteer to work on a house that a black person might own, right?

The implication is that people who SIGN UP for the fucking list are needy. How is that so hard for you to comprehend?

 

[gkIrish]

For the love of all that is holy........ how do you manage to tie your shoes in the morning?

So everyone who has donated to habitat for humanity has done so out of guilt? And heaven forbid a white carpenter volunteer to work on a house that a black person might own, right?

The implication is that people who SIGN UP for the fucking list are needy. How is that so hard for you to comprehend?

Did you actually read the article? It's 100% about fighting white privilege not helping the fucking needy.

White people should act, and many desperately want to act, in the fight against systemic racism.

The basic concept of Marin’s site is this: White people have a responsibility to do something to help dismantle white supremacy and white privilege, and people of color are experiencing trauma and stress related to white supremacy and white privilege.

People, it’s safe to say, are hurting right now. The relentless bad news of racially charged murder after murder, statistic after statistic, pummels us into paralysis, into stagnation. There’s tension, there’s anguish, there’s despair.

You can learn how to leverage and dismantle your white privilege through participation in this project.”

She takes care to note that Reparations.me is “absolutely not” trying to address actual reparations for American slavery right now—more like “reparations for microaggressions from last week.”

TL;DR, white people commit microaggressions every day so to make up for that they need to send black people money or offer free work to black people. Additionally, "racially charged murder after murder" has become an excuse for people to request financial or other assistance? LOL

 

[kmoose]

Did you actually read the article? It's 100% about fighting white privilege not helping the fucking needy.

Did you read what I fucking wrote?

At a local level, I think something like this could be a good thing. It allows people to see the good side of each other, while addressing some of the needs of others. It's completely voluntary, and it brings different people together. On a large scale, it would be a GIANT conduit for abuse.

It can change local perceptions of each other. Change enough local perceptions and the national perception is logically bound to follow. People would have to treat it like Craigslist, though. It could be used for a lot of bad juju.

I'm not defending this particular project. I said that something like this could be a good thing.

 

[wizards8507]

So everyone who has donated to habitat for humanity has done so out of guilt?

It's called "Reparations.me" FFS. No, people who donate to Habitat are not doing so out of guilt. But if it were called "Homes for the Descendants of Slaves who are Continually Repressed by the White Devil," then yeah, I'd say it's about guilt. I 100% support a charitable model where needy people request goods or services and those with surplus help them out. I 100% reject that model if it's built on white guilt over slavery. Honestly, did you read the whole article?

"Reparations," reads its banner headline: "There is something you can do."

Tell me with a straight face that's not guilt-bait. The entire premise of reparations is that modern white people are collectively guilty for the sins of slave-owning white people in the 18th and 19th centuries.

And heaven forbid a white carpenter volunteer to work on a house that a black person might own, right?

No, heaven forbid white people are told they should ONLY volunteer to work on homes that black people own because slavery.

 

[woolybug25]

I think you two are completely mischaracterizing what kmoose said. He isn't calling for reparations or penalty for white privilege. He's simply saying that groups of privileged white people activily trying to lift poor minority communities through public service could be a good thing. It raises all boats, frankly. The minorities get much needed help and the volunteers get an opportunity to meet people on the other side of the fence. They both get to learn about the other and try to form common bonds. Kinda like meet and great with policemen in urban communities.

No reason to jump all over anyone for wanting to repair race relations. It doesn't make someone a reverse racist if they want to help others.

 

[gkIrish]

Did you read what I fucking wrote?




I'm not defending this particular project. I said that something like this could be a good thing.

When you say "something like this" what are you saying? We are already have thousands of charitable organizations that help the needy. What about this particular program do you think is valuable that is not already addressed by the countless other organizations out there?

The one thing that makes this unique is that it is a way for whites to purge themselves of their white guilt. But you find it to be valuable somehow?

 

[wizards8507]

I think you two are completely mischaracterizing what kmoose said. He isn't calling for reparations or penalty for white privilege. He's simply saying that groups of privileged white people activily trying to lift poor minority communities through public service could be a good thing. It raises all boats, frankly. The minorities get much needed help and the volunteers get an opportunity to meet people on the other side of the fence. They both get to learn about the other and try to form common bonds. Kinda like meet and great with policemen in urban communities.

What about wealthy black people lifting poor white communities through public service? I must have missed Dwyane Wade and LeBron Jame's service trip to Harlan County.

HOW ABOUT wealthy people of every race try to lift poor people of every race? Wealthy whites are under no greater obligation to help their neighbor than wealthy minorities, just as poor minorities are of no greater or less worth than poor whites.

No reason to jump all over anyone for wanting to repair race relations. It doesn't make someone a reverse racist if they want to help others.

It makes someone a racist if they ONLY want to help others of a certain race (not saying that applies to Moose, it certainly does not).

 

[kmoose]

It's called "Reparations.me" FFS. No, people who donate to Habitat are not doing so out of guilt. But if it were called "Homes for the Descendants of Slaves who are Continually Repressed by the White Devil," then yeah, I'd say it's about guilt. I 100% support a charitable model where needy people request goods or services and those with surplus help them out. I 100% reject that model if it's built on white guilt over slavery. Honestly, did you read the whole article?


Tell me with a straight face that's not guilt-bait. The entire premise of reparations is that modern white people are collectively guilty for the sins of slave-owning white people in the 18th and 19th centuries.


No, heaven forbid white people are told they should ONLY volunteer to work on homes that black people own because slavery.

I've said that I would change the name. What the fuck more do you want? No one on here is more loathing of people trying to make White Guilt a thing than I am. If you don't believe that........... go ask GoIrish41 or pkt or any number of other "Progressives" on the board. But you take this "reparations.me" concept........ you change it up so that it is an altruistic skill-need matching service and you encourage interracial exchanges............... and it could be an incredibly valuable, PRODUCTIVE way to start changing hearts and minds for no reason other than that the people who participate WANT to, and people who genuinely need help get it.

 

[woolybug25]

What about wealthy black people lifting poor white communities through public service? I must have missed Dwyane Wade and LeBron Jame's service trip to Harlan County.

HOW ABOUT wealthy people of every race try to lift poor people of every race? Wealthy whites are under no greater obligation to help their neighbor than wealthy minorities, just as poor minorities are of no greater or less worth than poor whites.


It makes someone a racist if they ONLY want to help others of a certain race (not saying that applies to Moose, it certainly does not).

I don't think you fundamentally understate definition of racism. You seem to scream racism whenever race is pointed out (Obama "hair like mine" comment, helping one race in particular). Simply addressing one race's particular issues aren't the same as another's. That's just reality. There's nothing wrong with trying to drill down on something more granular like helping a Latino community learn English and/or business skills. There's nothing wrong helping young black men learn parenting skills. There's nothing wrong with doing free dance lessons in white communities (le humour).

You seem to be a mirror image of the PC race baiters.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't think you fundamentally understate definition of racism. You seem to scream racism whenever race is pointed out (Obama "hair like mine" comment, helping one race in particular).

I'll admit I went a little too far off the #HotTakes deep end during the DNC in the political thread. Michelle Obama's comment was not racist, but I do believe it was unnecessarily racial. Further, I do not think that participating in this Reparations site is racist. I also do not thing that having white guilt and wanting to do something about it is racist (misguided, yes, but not racist). The part I consider racist is twofold, 1) the implication by the founder that whites ought to feel guilty is racist against whites and 2) the implication by the founder that black people are uniquely needy and/or deserving of charity is racist against blacks. Thus, it's the founder I object to, not the participants. It would be like David Duke hosting a charity event for white kids with cancer. Good cause, but probably not the vehicle with which you want to associate yourself.

Simply addressing one race's particular issues aren't the same as another's. That's just reality. There's nothing wrong with trying to drill down on something more granular like helping a Latino community learn English and/or business skills. There's nothing wrong helping young black men learn parenting skills. There's nothing wrong with doing free dance lessons in white communities (le humour).

You seem to be a mirror image of the PC race baiters.

I don't believe that any race has a particular issue that actually has anything to do with race. For example, you mention helping a Latino community learn English. That's a noble thing but it's a matter of language, not skin color, so the analogy breaks down. You'd do just as much good helping a Polish community learn English.

 

[kmoose]

It makes someone a racist if they ONLY want to help others of a certain race (not saying that applies to Moose, it certainly does not).

You are COMPLETELY misunderstanding the idea.....

The idea is to promote, but not LIMIT, the exchanges to be inter-racial. NOT to give one race an advantage over the other, but to increase the number of "helpful" interactions on a community level. Once that trust is established, then I think you will see ALL races coming together to help ALL races that are less fortunate than they are. But you have to start somewhere...... you have to address the problems of self-segregation in the US today; the "us vs. them" mentality. I think that this reparations.me idea has some good framework upon which to build a program that will do just that.

 

[woolybug25]

I'll admit I went a little too far off the #HotTakes deep end during the DNC in the political thread. Michelle Obama's comment was not racist, but I do believe it was unnecessarily racial. Further, I do not think that participating in this Reparations site is racist. I also do not thing that having white guilt and wanting to do something about it is racist (misguided, yes, but not racist). The part I consider racist is twofold, 1) the implication by the founder that whites ought to feel guilty is racist against whites and 2) the implication by the founder that black people are uniquely needy and/or deserving of charity is racist against blacks. Thus, it's the founder I object to, not the participants. It would be like David Duke hosting a charity event for white kids with cancer. Good cause, but probably not the vehicle with which you want to associate yourself.


I don't believe that any race has a particular issue that actually has anything to do with race. For example, you mention helping a Latino community learn English. That's a noble thing but it's a matter of language, not skin color, so the analogy breaks down. You'd do just as much good helping a Polish community learn English.

You don't get it. Black fathers don't have problems with broken families because they're black. They have them because of generational issues. Their community has a worse problem with it, that's just a statistical fact. So their community has a greater need for the help.

Same with Mexicans and learning English. White Americans are more than likely not immigrants or children of immigrants. So again, the need is higher in their community.

This utopian idea that every culture and race across our eclectic country is the same is asinine. You use it as an excuse to act like race doesn't matter on any level, because that's your narrative. I mean, you still claim to never heard or seen something racist in your life. That fact alone shows the depth in which you will put blinders on to continue this "nobody is a victim" routine. You have fallen off the cliff, buddy.

 

[wizards8507]

You don't get it. Black fathers don't have problems with broken families because they're black.

That's literally exactly what I just said. I agree with you.

They have them because of generational issues. Their community has a worse problem with it, that's just a statistical fact. So their community has a greater need for the help.

That's perfectly reasonable, and I support it wholeheartedly. I just think it's far more productive if it's framed as pro-fatherhood and not pro-black-fatherhood. Because of the statistics you alluded to, it would disproportionately help black communities and there'd be nothing wrong with that.

Same with Mexicans and learning English. White Americans are more than likely not immigrants or children of immigrants. So again, the need is higher in their community.

Same answer as above. That's good work. I just think there are more constructive ways to craft the mission statement.

This utopian idea that every culture and race across our eclectic country is the same is asinine. You use it as an excuse to act like race doesn't matter on any level, because that's your narrative.

We've been through this in this and other threads. I view people as individuals, not demographic groups. There are statistical differences between demographic groups but there is no fundamental difference between individuals who happen to be members of different demographic groups. To suggest otherwise gets dangerously close to eugenics.

I mean, you still claim to never heard or seen something racist in your life. That fact alone shows the depth in which you will put blinders on to continue this "nobody is a victim" routine. You have fallen off the cliff, buddy.

I have never said that nobody is a victim. I simply object to the notion that EVERYONE is a victim. There's a lot of room in between.

 

[Domina Nostra]

You don't get it. Black fathers don't have problems with broken families because they're black. They have them because of generational issues. Their community has a worse problem with it, that's just a statistical fact. So their community has a greater need for the help. . .

This utopian idea that every culture and race across our eclectic country is the same is asinine. You use it as an excuse to act like race doesn't matter on any level, because that's your narrative. I mean, you still claim to never heard or seen something racist in your life. That fact alone shows the depth in which you will put blinders on to continue this "nobody is a victim" routine. You have fallen off the cliff, buddy.

If that is the case, is it a possibility that "black" culture could have something to do with that generational issue? Maybe not as the primary cause, but as a contributing factor? I'm not saying it is, but only wondering if you think its a possibility?

In other words, is it is a possibility that a group could be a victim of other groups in some circumstances (Irish victims of English for centuries), but could be the cause of their own problems--or other people's problems--in some cases in other circumstances (racism in Boston).

Just because you are a victim in one regard, doesn't mean that you are helping the situation, or necessarily a victim in every regard, or couldn't actually victimize others in some cases, right?

 

[Bubbles]

You're all a bunch of post-racial culturalists....and I'm personally offended having grown up in and actively participating currently in a culture. I'm going to retreat to my double IPA safe space.

 

[connor_in]

You're all a bunch of post-racial culturalists....and I'm personally offended having grown up in and actively participating currently in a culture. I'm going to retreat to my double IPA safe space.

Them's fightin' words...................................I think

Not sure if I'm triggered or microagressed

 

[dshans]

You're all a bunch of post-racial culturalists....and I'm personally offended having grown up in and actively participating currently in a culture. I'm going to retreat to my double IPA safe space.

Don't forget to recycle.

 

[irishroo]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but this is an interesting piece on the gender wage gap that manages to incorporate some of the nuance that is desperately needed when discussing this particular subject matter.

The truth about the gender wage gap - Vox

 

[GoldenDomer]

Not sure if this is the right place for this or not, but this is an interesting piece on the gender wage gap that manages to incorporate some of the nuance that is desperately needed when discussing this particular subject matter.

The truth about the gender wage gap - Vox

Every feminist needs this info. To most, it's common sense.

No, a woman does not make less money for the exact same job. America women as a whole makes less than American men as a whole.

 

[IrishLax]

DePaul just banned Ben Shapiro from coming to campus... because it would be "unsafe." Meanwhile, they were totally OK with a terrorist speaking on their campus. Can't make this shit up.

 

[ACamp1900]

DePaul just banned Ben Shapiro from coming to campus... because it would be "unsafe." Meanwhile, they were totally OK with a terrorist speaking on their campus. Can't make this shit up.

Howard Zinn and David Halberstam would be so proud.

 

[Domina Nostra]

Every feminist needs this info. To most, it's common sense.

My guess at the response: "And that's a problem we still have to address. We still have a lot of work to do." Or if the person is really honest, "Well, I'm sure all those white men out there will be just fine."

Because it really depends on what you think the issue is.

1) Do you think the issue is equal pay for equal work? Then this might be a little surprising and convincing.

OR

2) Do you think western civilization is helplessly patriarchal and is built on systemic inequalities that need to be fundamentally undone? Then you won't care about these stats and you'll treat people that quote them as sexist.

I think a lot of people start in column 1 and gradually make connections and alliances that drag them into column 2.

 

[IrishLax]

Holy crap: 'All Lives Matter': Texas Student Sent To Diversity Workshop | The Daily Caller

Best quote:

Smith notes in his letter that the punishment was particularly harsh because, in his view, Sethi hadn’t recognized the severity of her offense in declaring that all people’s lives matter.

There are some stupid fucking people in this world.