Police State USA

[JughedJones]

Do you think children should obey teachers when they ask them to follow the rules of the class?

yup.

but I... stick with me... don't think adults should hit kids.


It's crazy, I know.

 

[kmoose]

yup.

but I... stick with me... don't think adults should hit kids.


It's crazy, I know.

He didn't hit her. He didn't "slam her to the ground". He tried to remove her from the chair, and she fought back. At the point that she hit the officer, in my opinion she gave up the right to be looked at as a child interacting with an adult. If she had acted like a child, and just curled up into the fetal position, that is one thing; but she struck the officer. Children are taught not to hit police officers. Children are taught to obey the rules of the classroom. Children are taught to respect the authority of teachers and school administrators. That's basic parenting.

I've already said, in this thread, that the amount of force used was disturbing. But at some point, you malcontents are going to have to stop just automatically blaming "aggro cops", and start admitting that some of these kids and their parents share the blame. The cop wouldn't even have been there if this girl's parents had demanded that this girl have even basic respect for authority.

 

[NDohio]

So, interesting conversation in one of my wife's classes yesterday.

She had a girl state to the class that she was proud of the girl in the video because she was standing up for the rights of students to use their cell phones during class.

Yeah, that didn't go over very well.

Of course, there were no children injured during that conversation...

 

[irishff1014]

So, interesting conversation in one of my wife's classes yesterday.

She had a girl state to the class that she was proud of the girl in the video because she was standing up for the rights of students to use their cell phones during class.

Yeah, that didn't go over very well.

Of course, there were no children injured during that conversation...

People are stupid. Nothing else here to see.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I've already said, in this thread, that the amount of force used was disturbing. But at some point, you malcontents are going to have to stop just automatically blaming "aggro cops", and start admitting that some of these kids and their parents share the blame. The cop wouldn't even have been there if this girl's parents had demanded that this girl have even basic respect for authority.

There's just as much of a knee jerk reaction on the other side to fight any possibility that a cop might be wrong.

I've spent a lot of time in classrooms. I truly cannot understand anyone watching the video and thinking that the amount of force used is acceptable.

 

[kmoose]

I've spent a lot of time in classrooms. I truly cannot understand anyone watching the video and thinking that the amount of force used is acceptable.

Well, that's why the guy got fired.

 

[GoIrish41]

He didn't hit her. He didn't "slam her to the ground". He tried to remove her from the chair, and she fought back. At the point that she hit the officer, in my opinion she gave up the right to be looked at as a child interacting with an adult. If she had acted like a child, and just curled up into the fetal position, that is one thing; but she struck the officer. Children are taught not to hit police officers. Children are taught to obey the rules of the classroom. Children are taught to respect the authority of teachers and school administrators. That's basic parenting.

I've already said, in this thread, that the amount of force used was disturbing. But at some point, you malcontents are going to have to stop just automatically blaming "aggro cops", and start admitting that some of these kids and their parents share the blame. The cop wouldn't even have been there if this girl's parents had demanded that this girl have even basic respect for authority.

Nobody -- not a single person -- has made any excuses for the girl's behavior. It was disgusting. But, she is a child. You, however, seem to be making excuses for the officer who knocked the girl's desk over, ripped her violently from it and tossed her across the room because she would not comply with his demands. He lost his temper and went too far because how dare anyone question his authority, especially an an obstinate child. His actions had the potential to physically harm the girl and others in the classroom. You seem to be saying that he was justified and that her parents are horrible and that she has given up her rights. Anything exept admitting that the resource officer did anything wrong. He apparently has a history of rough treatment of students. Why are you defending his actions, Moose? I just don't get you sometimes.

The irony of the whole incident is that the initiating infraction that set off this insane chain of events is that she would not put her cell phone away. His overreaction was caught on cell phone cameras of other students in the classroom, none of whom have been reported to be roughed up, thrown across the room, cuffed, and arrested. Do all of these children also have terrible parents since they broke the same classroom rule?

 

[kmoose]

Nobody -- not a single person -- has made any excuses for the girl's behavior. It was disgusting. But, she is a child. You, however, seem to be making excuses for the officer who knocked the girl's desk over, ripped her violently from it and tossed her across the room because she would not comply with his demands. He lost his temper and went too far because how dare anyone question his authority, especially an an obstinate child. His actions had the potential to physically harm the girl and others in the classroom. You seem to be saying that he was justified and that her parents are horrible and that she has given up her rights. Anything exept admitting that the resource officer did anything wrong. He apparently has a history of rough treatment of students. Why are you defending his actions, Moose? I just don't get you sometimes.

The video was pretty hard to watch

I'm not saying that she deserved to be manhandled like she was, but don't kids also have to change their behaviors in cases like this?

I've already said, in this thread, that the amount of force used was disturbing.

I can totally understand how you would think that I am defending the actions of the cop in this situation. I mean, really...........

I've not once defended his actions, nor have I complained or lamented the fact that he was fired. He screwed up; he paid the consequences for that.
This girl screwed up, too. What consequence is she facing? A financial windfall from the lawsuit? Now THERE'S a lesson for that girl to learn!!

A lot of people have been "what if"-ing the SRO. How about we do the same to the girl?

WHAT IF........ this girl had just followed the rules and put her phone away, like she is supposed to?

WHAT IF......... this girl had just obeyed the teacher, when the teacher asked her to comply with the class rules?

WHAT IF........ the girl had left and gone to the Principal's Office when told to, and pleaded her case to the principal?

WHAT IF....... the girl had respected the authority of the Administrator (assuming either Vice Principal or Principal) that was called to the class and asked her to leave the class?

WHAT IF....... the girl had complied with the officers' request to leave the room (for those of you playing along at home, the officer was the THIRD person to ask her to leave the room, only to have her refuse a very legitimate and lawful request)?

WHAT IF...... the girl had NOT chosen to strike the officer?

 

[GoIrish41]

I can totally understand how you would think that I am defending the actions of the cop in this situation.

Really?

I guess fvck teaching kids respect for authority, huh?

I thought that the cop was actually kind of calm. .

He tried to pick her up out of the desk, but because of the mechanics of it, he ended up picking up her AND the desk, too. He didn't "slam" her to the floor; the desk just flipped over with her in it. He then pulled her out of the chair as it was on the floor. She was not going willingly, so he had to pull pretty hard, and she got tossed pretty good at that point. After she is out and he is on top of her, getting ready to cuff her, you can hear him telling her quite calmly to give him her hands. He doesn't sound out of control and screaming at all.

So she gets to make adult decisions on who she obeys at school, but she is a child when the consequences come down on her?

I guess you didn't defend the cop at all ... my mistake.

 

[kmoose]

Really?

I guess fvck teaching kids respect for authority, huh?

So you think that the entire blame in this situation has to lie on one side or the other? They couldn't both have been at fault, could they? And since one side or the other HAS to shoulder the entirety of the blame, any assertion that one side could have done something different automatically constitutes an endorsement of the other party's actions, doesn't it?

I thought that the cop was actually kind of calm. He tried to pick her up out of the desk, but because of the mechanics of it, he ended up picking up her AND the desk, too. He didn't "slam" her to the floor; the desk just flipped over with her in it. He then pulled her out of the chair as it was on the floor. She was not going willingly, so he had to pull pretty hard, and she got tossed pretty good at that point. After she is out and he is on top of her, getting ready to cuff her, you can hear him telling her quite calmly to give him her hands. He doesn't sound out of control and screaming at all.

Ok. Taken without context, I can see why someone might see this as a defense of the SRO's actions. However, let's put it into context:

That was a direct response to the following:

Because we're a society of sadistic assholes apparently. This kid wasn't breaking any laws so why in the hell was law enforcement involved? If the kid doesn't want to learn oh well, call her parents and suspend her from school. Instead we call in Rambo and kill a fly with a bazzoka. Good job America.

My thoughts were NOT a defense of his actions. They were a refutation of the inference that the guy might be a sadistic asshole, or that he came in like "Rambo and kill a fly with a bazooka".

And finally, my favorite one of all:

So she gets to make adult decisions on who she obeys at school, but she is a child when the consequences come down on her? If she is a child, then she should be obeying the teacher, principal, AND the police.

WHERE in there do I even come close to agreeing with anything that the officer did? Again, this thought was offered in direct response to another excuse for the girl.........

Wasnt this a little girl?...

Looking back on it, I am not sure GoldenDome actually meant his post to excuse the girl, or vilify the cop. But the sentiment still stands.......... if this is a little girl we are talking about, then she should have been following the rules, respecting authority, and certainly not striking a police officer. Little girls don't do that. But is anyone calling for discipline for her? No. But lots of people seem to want the cop crucified for what he did to "a little girl". You can't have it both ways. It is a similar concept to the idea that a man cannot go out and buy an assault rifle, a tactical vest, and thousands of rounds of ammunition; then go out and surveille a public place, write a bunch of anti-social crap on a web site fully acknowledging his superior intelligence and his belief that he is righteous in taking life, go out and shoot up a bunch of people, and then claim insanity as a defense. If you were thinking logically and rationally while planning the event, then you can't claim an inability to think logically and rationally after the event. If you were trying to exercise the perogatives of an adult before the incident, then you cannot complain if you aren't considered as a child, after the incident. That's got NOTHING to do with whether or not the cop was right or wrong.

The cop got fired, and justifiably so, in my mind. So what consequence do you "she's a child" folks think is appropriate for the girl?

 

[Irish#1]

Cop handled it incorrectly.

Girl is to blame for starting the situation. Obey the rules and nothing happens.

Both need to suffer the consequences.


On a side note, if she would have pulled something like that back when I was in school, the nuns would have had their paddles out and she probably would be a lot more obedient. lol

 

[GoIrish41]

So you think that the entire blame in this situation has to lie on one side or the other? They couldn't both have been at fault, could they?

I actually have been saying this the entire time. Certainly she shares in the blame, but his reaction far exceeded what her infraction was. The fact that he is an adult and a resouce officer whose job it is to protect children makes it worse.

The cop got fired, and justifiably so, in my mind. So what consequence do you "she's a child" folks think is appropriate for the girl?

Well, the child got tossed around in her classroom by a grown man. She was humilitated in front of her classmates and it was broadcast all over the world on social media. And arrested -- lets not forget that she was arrested. I expect that arrest will result in a court appearance if this dumb shit's actions don't make that go away. I expect any judge is going to conclude that she was a snotty teenager who deserved to write 100 times on the board "I will not use my cell phone in class," and the involvement of law enforcement, let alone the courts is way past something that is reasonable. But, do tell ... what punishment do you think she deserves for refusing to put her phone away and getting out of her seat?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Cop handled it incorrectly.

Girl is to blame for starting the situation. Obey the rules and nothing happens.

Both need to suffer the consequences.

Exactly.

 

[kmoose]

I actually have been saying this the entire time. Certainly she shares in the blame, but his reaction far exceeded what her infraction was. The fact that he is an adult and a resouce officer whose job it is to protect children makes it worse.




Well, the child got tossed around in her classroom by a grown man. She was humilitated in front of her classmates and it was broadcast all over the world on social media. And arrested -- lets not forget that she was arrested. I expect that arrest will result in a court appearance if this dumb shit's actions don't make that go away. I expect any judge is going to conclude that she was a snotty teenager who deserved to write 100 times on the board "I will not use my cell phone in class," and the involvement of law enforcement, let alone the courts is way past something that is reasonable. But, do tell ... what punishment do you think she deserves for refusing to put her phone away and getting out of her seat?

You have seen the video where she hit the cop in the side of the head, right? But let me guess...... her infraction was just using a cell phone in class? If a principal had paddled her, would you have been ok with that violence by an adult against a child?

She got tossed around, but not really hurt, so I don't think that's much of a consequence.

I think you have to start by looking at her past record.... does she have a past history of being disobedient and disrespectful? If so, then I think a significant fine, say $1000 (which her parents will no doubt have to come up with, therefore sharing the blame for not correcting her behavior) might be in order. If not, then perhaps you sentence her to 50-60 hours of real community service? Like picking up trash along roadways, or painting benches and buildings in parks?

How about charging her with assault on a police officer, and making her do a few weekends at juvenile hall?

Does the police officer have any children? Maybe the girl's family should be forced to feed the cop's children until such time as he finds other gainful employment?

 

[Grahambo]

Zero problem with what the cop did.

 

[NDohio]

Spring Valley students stage walkout in support of Ben Fields - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina

Hundreds of students walked out of class around 10 a.m. and into the school's atrium before school administrators returned the students to class.

Principal Jeff Temoney told the students none of them would be suspended if they returned to class.

"We've heard your voices, okay," Temoney said. "We appreciate you taking time to do this, but again, as you know, we always focus on teaching and learning, so let's head on back to class."

 

[yankeeND]

It wasn't spot-checking based on suspicious activity. It was more like a checkpoint. Everyone's bag gets searched. Apparently it happens regularly. Maybe it's under the same umbrella where TSA agents can search every person & bag that goes onto a plane. I guess as long as you're on WMATA property, you're subject to warrantless searches? Who knows? Just rubs me the wrong way.

Sorry I missed this. I see what you are saying now, but it makes it that much more strange to me. TSA checks people on the way in, and they check everyone. I find it odd that they are doing it once getting off the train and where they only select who they want to. I agree with you, it would make me uncomfortable as well. Now if it was everybody, then I would be more inclined to just go with the flow. It's a different world than when we were younger, that's for certain.

 

[GoldenDome]

Spring Valley students stage walkout in support of Ben Fields - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina

Oh the irony.

 

[Bluto]

Spring Valley students stage walkout in support of Ben Fields - wistv.com - Columbia, South Carolina

So about 100 students out of 2100 were involved in the walkout? Just wondering because context is everything.

 

[BGIF]

So about 100 students out of 2100 were involved in the walkout? Just wondering because context is everything.

"About 100" ... Changing the story to fit your narrative, nice.

Actually, the article says hundreds, plural, and the students were quickly shooed back to class. For clarity I included below the sentence you had difficulty reading.

Hundreds of students walked out of class around 10 a.m. and into the school's atrium before school administrators returned the students to class.

Check the short video that accompanied the article. If you actually look, you will see a diverse group of students, black and white, male and female, standing up for Fields.

BTW, notice that the protesters didn't throw rocks, burn cars, nor loot sores. They protested peacefully and moved on when authorities asked them to. Bravo for them.

 

[Bluto]

"About 100" ... Changing the story to fit your narrative, nice.

Actually, the article says hundreds, plural, and the students were quickly shooed back to class. For clarity I included below the sentence you had difficulty reading.



Check the short video that accompanied the article. If you actually look, you will see a diverse group of students, black and white, male and female, standing up for Fields.

BTW, notice that the protesters didn't throw rocks, burn cars, nor loot sores. They protested peacefully and moved on when authorities asked them to. Bravo for them.

Yeah, small local TV stations never get stuff wrong. That's my point lets present a factual narrative. I read other articles that stated about "100 students". So if someone could confirm how many students out of the 2,000 or so protested that would indeed present a much clearer narrative as far as the "support" among the students for this guy. Apparently it wasn't that great. Here's one:

Students walk out to show support for fired S.C. school deputy

Here's another:

Ben Fields firing protest at Spring Valley High School.

Also based on the video I'm not seeing "hundreds" of kids being addressed by the principal.

 

[NewBrunswickIrish]

Noise complaint in Tuscaloosa. There are a few different videos of the incident.

Videos Show Police Beating and Tasing Alabama Student After Responding to Noise Complaint | The Big Lead

Video of earlier part of incident

https://vid.me/yDwM

I guess this is what someone said what happened on at the beginning

https://twitter.com/itscoleworld7/status/663555878692327424

 

[GoIrish41]

Wow. How many cops do they need to respond to a noise complaint? There were like 10 cops there.

 

[Corry]

If the story from twitter is correct, I bet they went to the wrong house. Such bullshit.

 

[connor_in]

'South Park' to show life without 'racist, trigger-happy' cops | EW.com

 

[Bishop2b5]

Wow. How many cops do they need to respond to a noise complaint? There were like 10 cops there.

I think the officer who originally responded to the complaint called for backup when the kids became uncooperative and confrontational. This incident shows it's not just Blacks who have these type of encounters with the police. If you show your ass and act like an idiot when dealing with the cops, things tend to go badly regardless of your race.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I think the officer who originally responded to the complaint called for backup when the kids became uncooperative and confrontational. This incident shows it's not just Blacks who have these type of encounters with the police. If you show your ass and act like an idiot when dealing with the cops, things tend to go badly regardless of your race.

If the kids daddy would have beat his as* growing up when he misbehaved, there would probably not be a reason for the cops to beat his as* now. Just sayin.

 

[Corry]

I think the officer who originally responded to the complaint called for backup when the kids became uncooperative and confrontational. This incident shows it's not just Blacks who have these type of encounters with the police. If you show your ass and act like an idiot when dealing with the cops, things tend to go badly regardless of your race.

If the kids daddy would have beat his as* growing up when he misbehaved, there would probably not be a reason for the cops to beat his as* now. Just sayin.

Guys this is America, you can tell a cop to go pound sand, his response shouldn't be to hit you with the cattle prod. The guy was dragged out of his home and beaten in front of his girl friend for a freaking noise complaint. Do you two root for the empire in Star Wars?

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Growing up, I was used to 2 things when it came to altercations with the Police:

1) Persons in question need to stay calm and respectful
2) Police need to stay calm and respectful

When either #1 or #2 isn't followed, bad things happen. It's pretty simple really. At first glance it seems the cop is totally in the wrong but the students didn't help matters by screaming at him. Shit escalated quickly from there. Moral of the story, stay calm and respectful.

 

[Bishop2b5]

Guys this is America, you can tell a cop to go pound sand, his response shouldn't be to hit you with the cattle prod. The guy was dragged out of his home and beaten in front of his girl friend for a freaking noise complaint. Do you two root for the empire in Star Wars?

He most certainly was NOT dragged out of his apartment and beaten over a noise complaint. He was dragged out of his apartment and tazed & beaten for being a smart-ass punk who resisted arrest and refused to cooperate with a police officer who was responding to the noise complaint. All that stupid kid had to do was just say, "Yes sir, sorry about the noise. We'll turn it down" and that would've been the end of the entire matter.