Offensive Line Thread

[Old Man Mike]

... people continually forget that WE hurt people and it lasts more than our game. Duke's DLine is an obvious case for anyone who saw their following game. (I don't know why this needs to be repeated this season so far --- Kraemer sent their star DT out and he barely played the following game, and Hainsey sent Rumph to the bench limping three or four times.) So, "ratings" will include at least one manhandling by us AFTER we've played them.

 

[greyhammer90]

... people continually forget that WE hurt people and it lasts more than our game. Duke's DLine is an obvious case for anyone who saw their following game. (I don't know why this needs to be repeated this season so far --- Kraemer sent their star DT out and he barely played the following game, and Hainsey sent Rumph to the bench limping three or four times.) So, "ratings" will include at least one manhandling by us AFTER we've played them.

That's a fun theory but the numbers don't show any evidence of that. Just looking at the last two seasons, ND opponents are 17-6 coming off the ND game. Most of those 6 losses are not unexpected outcomes either, it's stuff like Ball State losing to Indiana, a 3-10 Navy losing to Cincinnati, Vandy losing to South Carolina, etc. Probably the most unexpected loss out of the 6 is a mediocre Stanford team losing to a mediocre Utah after we thrashed them.

Now, I choose to see the glass half full on this and use it as evidence that our schedule is pretty good, but the idea that we're creating hangovers for bruised teams after we play them doesn't have much merit.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I'm not talking about last season.

 

[Irish YJ]

... people continually forget that WE hurt people and it lasts more than our game. Duke's DLine is an obvious case for anyone who saw their following game. (I don't know why this needs to be repeated this season so far --- Kraemer sent their star DT out and he barely played the following game, and Hainsey sent Rumph to the bench limping three or four times.) So, "ratings" will include at least one manhandling by us AFTER we've played them.

Some of our guys looked very bad at times that game too. I recall specifically seeing a few guys get shed like a rag doll. I had to back it up on DVR to make sure my eyes weren't lying, but they weren't.

Rumph is a great DL, but him going to the bench limping doesn't necessarily mean he was hurt by our guys man handling him. Trench guys get hurt all the time with guys rolling around everywhere.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The Aristocrats!

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[Crazy Balki]

Gotta call BS on any ratings/rankings that have Duke in the top 15. FO has them outside of the top 40 in everything except sack rate (21st). They're giving up 250ish passing yards a game, and 195 on the ground. They got half their sacks (6) vs BC, 3 vs ND, and a combined 3 more vs VA and VT. ND's OL, FWIW, has a sack rate of 39th.



USFs ranks for DL are pretty mediocre. Not sure I would say they hung with Cinci. Besides the chaotic start (I think there were like 4 or 5 TOs in a row at the start), It seemed pretty one sided. Not saying Cinci was dominant, but they were up 21-0, and scored again quickly to answer a USF TD. I don't think Cinci is all that good either. Always cheer for them though.

You can't really ask for much more for a defense that was out there for practically 2/3 of the game, because their offense couldn't do jack. It's hard for a defense to hold teams consistently when their offense is either turning the ball over or punting on 3-and-outs all the time.

 

[Irish YJ]

You can't really ask for much more for a defense that was out there for practically 2/3 of the game, because their offense couldn't do jack. It's hard for a defense to hold teams consistently when their offense is either turning the ball over or punting on 3-and-outs all the time.

Actually TOP was about 56/44 when we played them, so not that bad.

I am really surprised that Duke is so bad at O though.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Actually TOP was about 56/44 when we played them, so not that bad.

I am really surprised that Duke is so bad at O though.

Sorry, I was referring to their TOP against Cincinnati, where Cincy had the ball for 36:24. To me, if there is a double digit differential in TOP, your defense is out there too long.

Duke has some talent on offense, but they just cannot hold onto the ball to save their lives. 15 turnovers in 4 games. Not many teams have enough talent to win with those numbers. I'm just surprised they managed to play their cleanest game against us, considering it was week 1, when you would expect the sloppiest football to be played.

 

[Irish YJ]

Sorry, I was referring to their TOP against Cincinnati, where Cincy had the ball for 36:24. To me, if there is a double digit differential in TOP, your defense is out there too long.

Duke has some talent on offense, but they just cannot hold onto the ball to save their lives. 15 turnovers in 4 games. Not many teams have enough talent to win with those numbers. I'm just surprised they managed to play their cleanest game against us, considering it was week 1, when you would expect the sloppiest football to be played.

Now I'm really confused. I thought we were talking Duke's DL. Duke didn't play Cinci.

As far as TOP, anything that's outside of the 60/40 - 40/60 window is too much for me. A lot of variables in O (air raid vs ball control types) and Ds (bend don't break, vs man or agressive) to not look at context.

 

[Irishbounty28]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">College Football's highest-graded Offensive Lines (power five):<br><br>1. Notre Dame - 96.9<br>2. Georgia - 80.9<br>3. Clemson - 76.1<br>4. VA Tech - 76.0<br>5. Louisville - 76.0 <a href="https://t.co/eECqu8qhsW">pic.twitter.com/eECqu8qhsW</a></p>— PFF College (@PFF_College) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1313950181759619078?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 7, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[T-Boone]

Wow. Huge. Keep it going.

 

[Old Man Mike]

... some people on IE aren't worth talking to.

Go get them Big Fellas.

 

[Dizzyphil]

... some people on IE aren't worth talking to.

Go get them Big Fellas.

I get it.... the members lately joining are getting younger every year.


They are looking for the spread, in the air, score 50+, and keep the foot on the gas pedal.... the latter has never been BKs motif



I'm like you... this game, RTDB. Let the BIG's get their reps for some upcoming, bigger games where we will need them.



Also, rotate the $h!t out of the O-Line to get some young'ns some reps by the 2nd qtr.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I love power football.
Apparently, so does Tom Rees.

 

[Irish YJ]

I mean, FSU D is garbage. Judging an OL vs FSU is pretty hard. Our opponents are 3-10 with bad wins. I'll be interested to see 10/24, and they're not even very good.

 

[ACamp1900]

So, I was thinking tonight how much fun next year should be,... I’m miserable always apparently.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

So, I was thinking tonight how much fun next year should be,... I’m miserable always apparently.

You are the reason we can’t have nice things!

The OL shouldn’t be bad next year, not as good as this year but not bad. That is as long as Banks comes back. Then you will have basically 2.5 starters returning in Banks, Patterson and Lugg.


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[BobbyMac]

O Line U will never be bad.

WAY too much talent on deck and in the hole.

Quinn can develop

Quinn / Rees / Taylor reportedly like working together and respect each other.

 

[IrishLax]

O Line U will never be bad.

WAY too much talent on deck and in the hole.

Quinn can develop

Quinn / Rees / Taylor reportedly like working together and respect each other.

Main reason for the uptick. Rees letting Quinn coach how he wants to coach, Rees working with Taylor to design a dynamic running game.

The blocking from everyone -- OL, TE, WR -- has been excellent. I want to see how they do against tougher defenses though before I crown this new brain trust as having figured it out 100%.

 

[spoonidentity]

Main reason for the uptick. Rees letting Quinn coach how he wants to coach, Rees working with Taylor to design a dynamic running game.

The blocking from everyone -- OL, TE, WR -- has been excellent. I want to see how they do against tougher defenses though before I crown this new brain trust as having figured it out 100%.

Mike and Jaime talk frequently about the difference McNulty makes as the tight ends coach. They will say that the tight ends didn't block very well which contributed to some of the run game woes. Chip Long also didn't spend as much time with them because of his OC duties.

 

[BobbyMac]

Mike and Jaime talk frequently about the difference McNulty makes as the tight ends coach. They will say that the tight ends didn't block very well which contributed to some of the run game woes. Chip Long also didn't spend as much time with them because of his OC duties.

Well he's on my shiit list. Mayer's failed block on the 4th down play at the end of the game enabled them to stretch out Tyree. I'm a couple stacks lighter today.

 

[NewEnglandGuy]

Agreed this is a fun group. Enjoy the year guys. Looking back, an argument could be made they're one of the recent "best" when comparing to the 2017 lineup.

McGlinchey >/= Eichenberg...pending 2020 season completion (Clemson, ACC Championship, Bowl) and 2021 NFL Draft
Nelson > Banks
Mustipher < Patterson
Bars > Kraemer
Hainsey in 2017 < Hainsey in 2020

2020
Eichenberg 5th - Banks Sr - Patterson Jr - Kraemer 5th - Hainsey Sr

2019
Eichenberg Sr - Banks Jr - Patterson So - Kraemer Sr - Hainsey Jr

2018
Eichenberg Jr - Bars 5th - Mustipher 5th - Kraemer Jr - Hainsey So

2017 - Joe Moore winning unit. Also Hiestand's 6th and final year
McGlinchey 5th - Nelson Sr - Mustipher Sr - Bars Sr - Hainsey Fr/Kraemer So

2016
McGlinchey Sr - Nelson Jr - Mustipher Jr - McGovern Sr - Bars Jr

2015
Stanley Sr - Nelson So - Martin 5th - Elmer Jr - McGlinchey Jr

2014
Stanley Jr - Hegarty Sr - Martin Sr - Elmer So - Lombard 5th

2013
Martin 5th - Watt 5th - Martin Jr - Lombard Sr - Stanley So

2012 - Welcome Harry Hiestand
Martin Sr - Watt Sr - Cave 5th - Golic Jr 5th - Lombard Jr

Other take aways:
-2012 was a tragedy to Matt James away from 5/5 highly regarded frontline players. After 4star Alex Bullards transfer, Golic won the position over true sophomores Hegarty and Nick Martin. James would've been in the program for 3 years and was the 11th ranked overall OL recruit in the past 10 years. Only Hunter Bivin was ranked ahead of him as a true non contributing bust, so there is a good chance he would've contributed with a possible great career. Other under achievers - Hoge, has had moments for BYU, and Hegarty, started at both ND and Oregon, have at worst been starters.
-2013 group could've been special if Lombard didn't hurt his back. Again, if James would've popped as a NFL prospect, he could've fit right in with other future all pros. He was highly sought after and was down to Ohio St and ND picking new guy Kelly over Tressel and the 11-2, #5 ranked Rose Bowl winning Buckeyes.
-2014 was hard to remember due to Martin's hand injury, he mostly played guard that year, and of all the shifting Hiestand did in season.
-3 Future top 10 picks in 2015 is ridiculous (#6 Stanley, #6 Nelson, #9 McGlinchey). Steve Elmer had a ton of talent and potential but chose an alternative career after 3 years.

The Top 25 ranked OL players since 2010 and Kelly's Arrival
-Just missing Chris Watt and Zack Martin in 2009 class as #40 and #142 overall respectively
Current players, 10 of 25, in bold

1. 5* OT- Tommy Kraemer (2016) – #26 overall; #3 OT
2. 4* OT- Matt Hegarty (2011) – #56 overall; #4 OT
3. 4* OT- Quenton Nelson (2014) – #61 overall; #5 OT
4. 4* OT- Liam Eichenberg (2016) – #80 overall: #7 OT
5. 4* OG- Robert Hainsey (2017) – #84 overall; #5 OG
6. 4* C- Tristen Hoge (2015) – #89 overall; #1 C
7. 4* C- Zeke Correll (2019) – #95 overall; #3 C
8. 4* OT- Hunter Bivin (2013) – #97 overall; #9 OT
9. 4* OT - Tosh Baker (2020) – #100 overall; #9 OT
10. 4* OT- Alex Bars (2014) – #109 overall: #10 OT
11. 4* OT- Matt James (2010) – #111 overall; #12 OT
12. 4* OT- Steve Elmer (2013) – #115 overall; #10 OT
13. 4* OT- Quinn Carroll (2019) – #118 overall; #12 OT
14. 4* OT- Josh Lugg (2017) – #120 overall; #15 OT
15. 4* OT- Ronnie Stanley (2012) – #129 overall; #12 OT
16. 4* OT- Michael Carmody (2020) – #146 overall; #14 OT
17. 4* OT- Jarron Jones (2012) – #150 overall; #15 OT - moved to DL
18. 4* OG- John Montelus (2013) – #150 overall; #9 OG
19. 4* OT- Jerry Tillery (2015) – #156 overall; #11 OT - moved to DL
20. 4* OT- Aaron Banks (2017) – #166 overall; #17 OT
21. 4* OT- Mike McGlinchey (2013) – #172 overall: #12 OT
22. 4* OG- Christian Lombard (2010) – #178 overall; #4 OG
23. 4* OT- Andrew Kristofic (2019) – #183 overall; #17 OT
24. 4* OT- John Olmstead (2019) – #185 overall; #18 OT
25. 4* OT- Colin McGovern (2013) – #193 overall; #13 OT

It shows ND's recruiting prowess that despite being considered the best center in the country by pro football focus, Patterson isn't listed. He was the #369 overall recruit. For future optimism in the restocking department, as the ever changing 2021 class composite currently sits, Fisher and Spindler would be #2 and #3 (#48 and #50 overall).

 

[Huntr]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NATIONAL OL OF THE WEEK💪 <a href="https://t.co/9098IJs7uH">pic.twitter.com/9098IJs7uH</a></p>— PFF College (@PFF_College) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1318175171090546688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 19, 2020</a></blockquote>

 

[Old Man Mike]

Way to go, big un'.

I saw a lot of pancakes by our guys spread around the game. Too bad all that fast LB sell-out blitzing messed things up as much as it did. Our five guys can only block five guys. Still, we ran for a bunch anyway.

 

[NDdomer2]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NATIONAL OL OF THE WEEK&#55357;&#56490; <a href="https://t.co/9098IJs7uH">pic.twitter.com/9098IJs7uH</a></p>— PFF College (@PFF_College) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1318175171090546688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 19, 2020</a></blockquote>

got my weeks wrong

 

[T-Boone]

From BKs interview I think Banks will come back next season. Banks, Lugg and Patterson will mean some solid continuity.
Do they move Patterson out and play Correll at centre?

 

[zelezo vlk]

From BKs interview I think Banks will come back next season. Banks, Lugg and Patterson will mean some solid continuity.
Do they move Patterson out and play Correll at centre?

Oh man Banks coming back would be huge. 3 returning starters with Gibbons as well and pick one from the redshirts? I'd feel significantly better.

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[T-Boone]

Oh man Banks coming back would be huge. 3 returning starters with Gibbons as well and pick one from the redshirts? I'd feel significantly better.

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Exactly, though arguably Banks would get drafted ahead of Hainsey and possibly Kraemer this year. I suppose BK can try to convince him he is first round materiel with another year. I just cannot see any of LE, RH, or TK coming back as they have been around too long.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I'm telling you guys... mark my words... tomorrow is the day the Irish / Williams is going to run over the Pitt defense... I just posted in the 'Gameday' post as well...


Williams is going to have a great day

 

[BobbyMac]

I'm expecting Aaron Taylor to ship the Joe Moore back to ND as soon as Sunday.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Highest-graded P5 offensive lines<br>1⃣ Notre Dame - 92.5<br>2⃣ Virginia Tech - 88.2<br>3⃣ Kentucky - 85.9<br>4⃣ Oregon - 85.0<br>5⃣ Alabama - 84.3 <a href="https://t.co/6vb8DgH7tk">pic.twitter.com/6vb8DgH7tk</a></p>— PFF College (@PFF_College) <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF_College/status/1326524602206588928?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>