Offensive Line Thread

[Sherm Sticky]

Floored how bad the line has played this season.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Legacy]

Worth noting is Clemson's OL recruiting, too.

2013
Tyrone Crowder (#7 OG) - starting
Maverick Morris (#44 OG)- 2nd string

2014
Taylor Hearn (#68 OT) - starting
Justin Falcinelli (#48 OT) - 2nd string
Cannon Smith (#22 OT) - 2nd string TE

2015
Mitch Hyatt (#2 OT) - 1st string
Zach Giella (#67 OT) - Not listed on depth chart
Noah Green (#41 OT) - Not listed
Jake Fruhmorgen (#8 OT) - transferred

2016
Sean Pollard (#28 OT) - 1st string
Tremayne Anchrum (#24 OT) - 2nd string
Chandler Reeves(#68 OT) - Redshirted '16
Cade Stewart (Grayshirt) (#164 OT) - Redshirted '16
John Simpson (#7 OG) - 2nd string

2017
Noah DeHond (#55 OT)
Blake Vinson (#35 OT)
Matt Bockhorst (#17 OG)

Out of seventeen commits, four are/were ranked in the top 15 at their positions.

 

[Domina Nostra]

With the departures Hoge and Parker, Harry needs to step up the recruiting immediately. OL has been the bright spot on the roster.

This year's class cannot be a hole, which is exactly what will happen if they follow the "we're fine at that position, so let's under-recruit it this year" model that Kelly is notorious for.

 

[drayer54]

These kids may be able to bench press a truck and push high schoolers around, but they are still 18 years old dumb ass kids. You never know who is going to get homesick, nasal congestion, disgruntled, or see greener grass beyond the northern Indiana fields.

He gets the talent here and he'll get more. Tommy was the gem of that class anyways.

 

[zelezo vlk]

These kids may be able to bench press a truck and push high schoolers around, but they are still 18 years old dumb ass kids. You never know who is going to get homesick, nasal congestion, disgruntled, or see greener grass beyond the northern Indiana fields.

He gets the talent here and he'll get more. Tommy was the gem of that class anyways.

Tommy and Liam were both highly coveted by Urban and Coach Hiestand took them both. Last year is looking to be a bit better than expected, but with the lack of depth at tackle, Coach definitely needs to pry Petit-Frere up here or find a good alternative. Sadly, last year was stacked with tackles and great O linemen and this year is nearly the opposite (per Jamie at ISD).

I wonder if Harry wishes he could have Bockhurst now.

 

[Domina Nostra]

These kids may be able to bench press a truck and push high schoolers around, but they are still 18 years old dumb ass kids. You never know who is going to get homesick, nasal congestion, disgruntled, or see greener grass beyond the northern Indiana fields.

He gets the talent here and he'll get more. Tommy was the gem of that class anyways.

Right. I am NOT worried about his losing kids AT ALL.

I'm worried about the apparent plan of signing 2 project OTs and one solid OT/OG (yet to be determined) this year. Need 4 solid OL every year. Not everyone should be a star, but one or two should be studs.

Sadly, last year was stacked with tackles and great O linemen and this year is nearly the opposite (per Jamie at ISD).

Then get some OG's! Not sure I buy it anyway, OLinemen are notoriously hard to grade. We think we know better than we do because we have been playing mostly elite kids with perfectly obvious talent--in a certain sense HH hasn't really been asked to develop much raw talent. But there are Nick Martins out there for the taking.

 

[dublinirish]

https://theringer.com/greg-robinson-los-angeles-rams-detroit-lions-offensive-line-busts-dc63ea1482f6

“A lot of the [spread offense] offensive linemen, they’re not necessarily asked to run off the ball, and [set] a guy up, and try to move [a big defensive end] three yards down the field,” Titans general manager Jon Robinson said in 2016. “They’re kind of asked to just ‘zone and occupy,’ and let the backs cut off the blocks. So you really have to dig through those plays where you can really see him unroll his hips, and dig his cleats in, and really get moving.”
This means that when evaluating college offensive linemen — at least the ones that don’t play for Stanford, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Notre Dame, and a few other college programs still holding on to pro-style systems — teams are left looking at traits instead of game tape. Is this guy strong? Can he move? Can he jump? They’re looking for amazing athletes with prototypical size and a salty temperament who can one day learn to do what’s necessary at the next level. Teams call it projection, but with offensive linemen in particular, that “projection” feels more and more like a euphemism for “guessing.”

 

[Rack Em]

https://theringer.com/greg-robinson-los-angeles-rams-detroit-lions-offensive-line-busts-dc63ea1482f6

I didn't realize we ran a pro-style system. Maybe he means we run a more pro-style blocking scheme?

 

[IrishLion]

I didn't realize we ran a pro-style system. Maybe he means we run a more pro-style blocking scheme?

Maybe it's a little of both?

What we do looks a lot more "pro-style" based on the current NFL than what Stanford and scUM do. They do "old school" pro-style. We do "Patriots" pro-style.

 

[dublinirish]

Offenses moving away from the spread a little bit nowadays, albeit slowly. Expect to see alot of jumbo/tight formations this season as teams try to play power ball against defenses that have sacrificed power for speed to keep up with spread teams in recent years.

 

[Old Man Mike]

If that quote by whoever-it-was ("Stanford, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Notre Dame ... etc") really makes any sense, and I think that it does, the quoter must be really thinking about the OLine coaches --- essentially saying "when you're dealing with players from those programs you already know that they're going to be able to do .... "

Therefore I view it as high praise for St. Harry's ability to teach techniques.

 

[dublinirish]

If that quote by whoever-it-was ("Stanford, Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, Notre Dame ... etc") really makes any sense, and I think that it does, the quoter must be really thinking about the OLine coaches --- essentially saying "when you're dealing with players from those programs you already know that they're going to be able to do .... "

Therefore I view it as high praise for St. Harry's ability to teach techniques.

yeah Tom Cable (Seahawks OL coach) made a point to mention ND in the same breath previously. Iowa/Wiscy/ND/Stanford guys are coveted.

 

[spoonidentity]

https://theringer.com/greg-robinson-los-angeles-rams-detroit-lions-offensive-line-busts-dc63ea1482f6

More from this article previously posted:

This is clinic tape pass set by Stanley against Pittsburgh’s James Harrison. It looks exactly like his college tape. He’s in a three-point stance, and it’s great physical positioning — hands excellent, anchors on the bull rush. There’s no panic in Stanley’s set because he has done it a zillion times in college.

Also important to note: it’s second-and-9, and he’s down in a stance. It could be run or pass, and Stanley isn’t giving anything away.

If anyone hasn't read the full article, the writer REALLY likes Ronnie's technique and that is a firm reflection on Coach Hiestand. This really should be shown to all OL recruits.

Edit: Wow, I posted the wrong link. This quote actually comes from the link posted immediately below my post. https://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/25/...sive-line-prospects-evaluation-geoff-schwartz

 

[AvesEvo]

Here's a good article on Stanley and Harry.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/4/25/...sive-line-prospects-evaluation-geoff-schwartz

 

[gkIrish]

https://twitter.com/davediehl66/status/905429042035400704

 

[zelezo vlk]

Pfft. A biased Illini...

 

[BobbyMac]

For u non-clickers.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

For u non-clickers.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Coach Harry Hiestand is the best OL coach in <a href="https://twitter.com/NCAAFootball">@NCAAFootball</a> PERIOD. And that's not just my opinion, ask <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL">@NFL</a> coaches & GM's <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFL?src=hash">#NFL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Ready?src=hash">#Ready</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OL?src=hash">#OL</a> <a href="https://t.co/k8gkaT07Qu">https://t.co/k8gkaT07Qu</a></p>— David Diehl (@davediehl66) <a href="https://twitter.com/davediehl66/status/905429042035400704">September 6, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I hope he never leaves and ND keeps giving him raises. He's so pivotal to our team. We can recruit and develop big OL and that is an advantage we must keep. I honestly don't know if there is anyone more important to program success than Hiestand.

 

[BobbyMac]

Here's some of HH's work. The 3rd play is hilarious... Bars pulls through the hole Q & McG blow open unsuccessfully looking for someone to block. They should have just done an inside hand off to Alex for a 30 yard FB quick hitter.

If those two continue to pave like that at home, the Australian's are gonna start charging
our backs tolls.

 

[BobbyMac]

AT giving HH the love. If only NBC would hire AT to replace Flutie.

 

[GoldenDomer]

We better commit to running the ball on Saturday, even when it's tempting to let it spin with Wimbush. We can ground these dudes out.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Here's to Harry Hiestand!!!

Here's to Harry Hiestand!!!

We better commit to running the ball on Saturday, even when it's tempting to let it spin with Wimbush. We can ground these dudes out.

Adams went for a buck eighty on 17 carries last year. Take his long of 74 out of there, and he still averaged almost 7 a carry.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Adams went for a buck eighty on 17 carries last year. Take his long of 74 out of there, and he still averaged almost 7 a carry.

Which means they'll probably shut us down to 2.1 ypc by some anti-miracle and the gates of hell will prevail.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Which means they'll probably shut us down to 2.1 ypc by some anti-miracle and the gates of hell will prevail.

Precisely

 

[NDMIA]

For those who are thinking about next season's offensive line...

Quenton Nelson RS SR 5* (NFL DRAFT)
Sam Mustipher RS SR 4*
Alex Bars RS SR 4*
Jimmy Byrne RS SR 4*
Trevor Ruhland RS JR 3*
Tommy Kraemer RS SO 5*
Liam Eichenberg RS SO 4*
Robert Hainsey SO 4*
Aaron Banks RS FR 4*
Joshua Lugg RS FR 4*
Dillan Gibbons RS FR 3*
John Dirksen FR 3*
Cole Mabry FR 3*

That's 12 players signed up for next season and I am assuming that future top ten pick Quenton Nelson is gone. As for what's left, I think we might have a transfer or two being Jimmy Byrne who might try and see the field for once as a grad transfer and maybe someone else. But still you have 12 players that are right now coming back. That means Hiestand and Long can look for 2-3 more lineman in this class and not need to save some scholly's for '19 cause of a few guys graduating. Hopefully they can pull in some guys from the board...

Cade Mays .9900 (Tennessee Commit)
Nicholas Petit-Frere .9761
Sam Taimani .9114 ("Hurdles in Play")
Luke Jones .8665 (Arkansas Commit)
Hunter Woodard .8347 (Ok St Commit)

There are many more prospects who may be committed elsewhere who could be flipped after the season or hidden gems hiding somewhere. And as for next season you have...

Sam Mustipher RS SR 4*
Alex Bars RS SR 4*
Tommy Kraemer RS SO 5*
Liam Eichenberg RS SO 4*
Robert Hainsey SO 4*

Jimmy Byrne RS SR 4*
Trevor Ruhland RS JR 3*
Joshua Lugg RS FR 4*
Aaron Banks RS FR 4*

That's a very talented 9 guys. Didn't put positions on them cause I frankly have no idea where the best 5 will slot in, but they should be decent in the trenches.

 

[NDMIA]

Also, any chance we try and flip some of these local guys?

Marquan McCall .9337 6'3'' OG (Kentucky Commit) 3h20m away
Verdis Brown .9191 6'4'' OC (FSU Commit) 1h35m away from Chicago HS
Darian Kinnard .9101 6'7'' OT (Kentucky Commit) 4h away
Tyrone Sampson .8953 6'3'' OC (Syracuse Commit) 3h30m away
Antwan Reed .8895 6'6'' OT (Penn State Commit) 2h10m away

 

[BobbyMac]

Jimmy Bryne 99% gone. They need his scholarship.

I don't see anyone else transferring as of now.

I could see 2 more if it's NPF and Mays (or another superstar like Max Wray came out of nowhere) Besides that, I go one more but he can't be simply filler because if he ends up a depth guy you are simply trading Jimmy Byrne for another 4 year scholarship holder.

If you have to have the practice depth, bringing back Byrne for a Grad year is the best option.

Another way to look at this is:

ND has 16 OL's available for practice everyday to man the 1st, 2nd and Scout teams. They will lose:

McG
Q
Bivin

Graduating Sr's w/ a GS possible:

Bryne
Bush (Walk On who could be back for a GS if he pursues Masters at ND)

That currently leaves 13 players available for practice next year if the 5 above move on and no more are brought in. That's light for practice when the injuries start to happen.

 

[BobbyMac]

Also, any chance we try and flip some of these local guys?

Marquan McCall .9337 6'3'' OG (Kentucky Commit) 3h20m away
Verdis Brown .9191 6'4'' OC (FSU Commit) 1h35m away from Chicago HS
Darian Kinnard .9101 6'7'' OT (Kentucky Commit) 4h away
Tyrone Sampson .8953 6'3'' OC (Syracuse Commit) 3h30m away
Antwan Reed .8895 6'6'' OT (Penn State Commit) 2h10m away

Without even taking into account how HH feels about each individually, I know the Admissions Office is the enemy to at least 3 of them.

 

[snoopdog]

Jimmy Bryne 99% gone. They need his scholarship.

I don't see anyone else transferring as of now.

I could see 2 more if it's NPF and Mays (or another superstar like Max Wray came out of nowhere) Besides that, I go one more but he can't be simply filler because if he ends up a depth guy you are simply trading Jimmy Byrne for another 4 year scholarship holder.

If you have to have the practice depth, bringing back Byrne for a Grad year is the best option.

Another way to look at this is:

ND has 16 OL's available for practice everyday to man the 1st, 2nd and Scout teams. They will lose:

McG
Q
Bivin

Graduating Sr's w/ a GS possible:

Bryne
Bush (Walk On who could be back for a GS if he pursues Masters at ND)

That currently leaves 13 players available for practice next year if the 5 above move on and no more are brought in. That's light for practice when the injuries start to happen.

I acknowledge I am reaching here, because I don't know the future......But this is not the year to whiff on Oline. I right now consider both Mabry and Dirksen a whiff, never having seen them play (yes.... very stupid).

Can Notre Dame cobble a good Oline the next two seasons with the remaining Oline and Mabry and Dirksen....yes. Could they have a run of injuries and end up with a very substandard oline....absolutely.

What I am suggesting is....HH and BK need one, but really two quality 4+ star studs to end this class. NPF and poach a 4* commit from elsewhere would do nicely.

 

[Veritate Duce Progredi]

Harry is behind all of our success and it has been a work in progress this whole time. He's been finding top OL talent and building them to play this brand of football.

I hope he gets lifetime tenure with us and I hope that means another decade of dominant OL play and top level talent roadgrading our way to victory.