Offensive Line Thread

[calvegas04]

Exactly. And they do it pretty damn well. Not sure everyone is always surprised when we can't just "pound it".

5 sacks

 

[NDdomer2]

5 sacks

Kizer's wait for the big play gets ND a lot of bad sacks.

 

[Senoj13]

That's just flat out wrong.

What to rethink this?

 

[ulukinatme]

Our Oline is designed to pass protect not run.

Yup. We have a few good years when we can run the ball, but it typically comes when the QB is also picking up lots of yards (2012, 2015). Year in and year out we've never really been consistent in opening holes under Harry. Not like the holes we had when Warriner is here. You could drive some trucks through the holes we had in 2011. That's neither here nor there though, because Warriner couldn't recruit and his pass blocking left little to be desired. The NFL seems to like the zone blocking these days though, and it's getting guys drafted, so I doubt they're going to change things up in that regard.

 

[ulukinatme]

5 sacks

Kizer's wait for the big play gets ND a lot of bad sacks.

I'll second this one too. There was one blitz up the middle that Q missed, but overall the sacks today were a result of the weather and receivers not getting open which resulted in a coverage sack. Kizer had time for the most part.

 

[NDRock]

I'll second this one too. There was one blitz up the middle that Q missed, but overall the sacks today were a result of the weather and receivers not getting open which resulted in a coverage sack. Kizer had time for the most part.

Exactly, just about every one was a "coverage" sack. I'd rather him just take off if the 1st and 2nd reads aren't there.

 

[ulukinatme]

Exactly, just about every one was a "coverage" sack. I'd rather him just take off if the 1st <strike>and 2nd </strike>reads aren't there.

Take out the 2nd and you have the Golson offense there.

 

[irishff1014]

5 sacks

I like kiser but not as much as i did at the beginning of the season. He holds the ball way to long and he won't throw it away for anything. it seems like kiser goes for those run way to often. Big Mike had a bad game today.

 

[NDRock]

Take out the 2nd and you have the Golson offense there.

Really? I don't remember Golson running that much, just fumbling. It may be my PTSD though.

 

[ulukinatme]

Really? I don't remember Golson running that much, just fumbling. It may be my PTSD though.

That's usually how it started though. Drops to pass, 1st option covered, Golson takes off and fumbles ball during run.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Take out the 2nd and you have the Golson offense there.

So, what is the common thing with the Golson offense? That's right! The coach!

Firing someone isn't about who you get as a replacement.

Kelly needs to be fired because he brought BVG in and waited too long to fire him. Granted it is with hindsight, but BVG needed to be fired by the OSU game.

Kelly needs to be fired because his game strategies are just absolute bull shit. Running wide and throwing across the field in near hurricane conditions? That is cause.

Let alone, having no option to chance blocking schemes to a man on approach in inclement weather! These guys couldn't even stand up today! WTF?


Now we will see if Swarbrick has the balls to handle the situation. Because leaving Kelly in charge means that kids that can bolt this year will. I would personally tell DK to get out of Dodge before he gets killed. But I doubt I would have to even say anything.

After taking the blame a couple of games ago, he was just abused and abandoned by his coach today.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I like kiser but not as much as i did at the beginning of the season. He holds the ball way to long and he won't throw it away for anything. it seems like kiser goes for those run way to often. Big Mike had a bad game today.

That's good. It won't be a problem for you much longer.

I will go on record for saying that Kizer will be projected an early first round draft choice, and even if he isn't, he still will declare.

He will take a year or so to get up to speed with the NFL game, and go on to win multiple MVP awards.

 

[TheChosen1]

Someone needs to start a thread:

Who will Brian Kelly blame this week?

 

[BoredIrish]

Someone needs to start a thread:

Who will Brian Kelly blame this week?

Great Idea.

An even better idea would be Who will Swarbrick blame this week?

 

[irishff1014]

That's good. It won't be a problem for you much longer.

I will go on record for saying that Kizer will be projected an early first round draft choice, and even if he isn't, he still will declare.

He will take a year or so to get up to speed with the NFL game, and go on to win multiple MVP awards.

I think you took my comment wrong.

I like Kizer and think he is good but he is goes for the homerun instead of taking some of the shorter shots. I am not sure he even know he has a tight end on the field most the time.

Kelly i think expects to much from considering he has only been starting a little over a year. If we had an effective running game it would also help him out.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think you took my comment wrong.

I like Kizer and think he is good but he is goes for the homerun instead of taking some of the shorter shots. I am not sure he even know he has a tight end on the field most the time.

Kelly i think expects to much from considering he has only been starting a little over a year. If we had an effective running game it would also help him out.

I am fine with your post and agree a bit with the sentiment.

I think I understand what you are saying.

Just to make it clear : I think there is still too much pressure for Kizer to succeed. Most of it is put there by the offensive scheme his team runs, the lack of defense his team exhibits, and generally the attitudes his coaches embrace.

So, I am saying there is so much pressure on that kids shoulders, that no matter how much he says he is making the game 'fun again' the kid needs to drill the ball down field to succeed.

Yes, Kelly expects too much from Kizer. Kelly expects too much from his flawed offense, and from his incompetent defensive coordinators. And all of that costs his player, attitude and or injuries.

We close to on the same page?

I wouldn't play at ND with the environment it has become. Isn't Kelly the one always talking about culture?

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I said it in another thread, but if Kelly would change his running style to a more north and south/power spread instead of his lateral zone scheme, this line would be a lot more successful in pounding the rock.

 

[koonja]

What the hell happens to Harry when bk goes? I feel like Harry is a guy that wouldn't just work for anyone.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I said it in another thread, but if Kelly would change his running style to a more north and south/power spread instead of his lateral zone scheme, this line would be a lot more successful in pounding the rock.

Exactly. Get rid of the fucking zone read shit. Kizer isn't quick enough to run it and it's not been successful here.

 

[Free Manera]

Exactly. Get rid of the fucking zone read shit. Kizer isn't quick enough to run it and it's not been successful here.

I don't think it's the read option that's the problem. All the power spread teams like Ohio State and Clemson run the read option. The difference is that they run power blocking schemes with pulling guards and H backs/tight ends as lead blockers. If you watch one of their games you always see linemen getting to the second level and blocking linebackers. I don't see that much during ND games.

 

[BobbyMac]

I don't think it's the read option that's the problem. All the power spread teams like Ohio State and Clemson run the read option. The difference is that they run power blocking schemes with pulling guards and H backs/tight ends as lead blockers. If you watch one of their games you always see linemen getting to the second level and blocking linebackers. I don't see that much during ND games.

I agree with what you wrote BUT you failed to acknowledge the QB's at OSU and Clemson are who they are. DK doesn't have the same feel for the run game, can he bust a long one? Yep. When he gets a chance to unwind he's actually got good top end but he's indecisive and does not know how to finish off a run. When he is successful on the ground it's because ND's passing game is setting up. He's not the guy who is going to run the ball to set up the pass.

 

[EddytoNow]

That's good. It won't be a problem for you much longer.

I will go on record for saying that Kizer will be projected an early first round draft choice, and even if he isn't, he still will declare.

He will take a year or so to get up to speed with the NFL game, and go on to win multiple MVP awards.

Bogs, you're sounding a little like Charlie Weiss talking up Brady Quinn, but I tend to agree. Kizer has a chance of succeeding at the next level.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I said it in another thread, but if Kelly would change his running style to a more north and south/power spread instead of his lateral zone scheme, this line would be a lot more successful in pounding the rock.

If he had done that 15 more times yesterday he would have probably came out with a win. if DK is the guy at QB, the zone read isn't the right offense for ND. I like DK, but he isn't the QB for a zone read run game.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I said it in another thread, but if Kelly would change his running style to a more north and south/power spread instead of his lateral zone scheme, this line would be a lot more successful in pounding the rock.

If he had done that 15 more times yesterday he would have probably came out with a win. If DK is the guy at QB, the zone read isn't the right run offense for ND. I like DK, but he isn't the QB for a zone read run game.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If he had done that 15 more times yesterday he would have probably came out with a win.

Based on what? Neither team scored a touchdown.

If DK is the guy at QB, the zone read isn't the right run offense for ND. I like DK, but he isn't the QB for a zone read run game.

Kizer is more than capable of running the zone read.

We went all of 2014 with fans clamoring for zone read given that it was absent from the playbook, and then Kizer ran it well in 2015 and to start out 2016. Hell Kelly made a point of Kizer have too many rushing yards to start the season.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Based on what? Neither team scored a touchdown.



Kizer is more than capable of running the zone read.

We went all of 2014 with fans clamoring for zone read given that it was absent from the playbook, and then Kizer ran it well in 2015 and to start out 2016. Hell Kelly made a point of Kizer have too many rushing yards to start the season.

If Kelly would have committed to running the ball north and south against NC State, I think the Irish could have won the game. The conditions were atrocious but his constant attempts to wing the ball all over the field was disappointing.

Don't want anyone to misinterpret my comments on DK. He is a great QB. He can run the ball. My issues with trying to run the zone read with DK is pretty simple. It is a boom/bust scenario. It takes DK a while to get his legs moving but can get big chunks of yardage once he gets going. That's great against middling teams but won't work against really good defenses. Secondly, the Irish have two pretty solid RBs who are physical enough to move the pile. I would have utilized them over and over on Saturday right up the gut. I also think the OL is better when going north and south and not trying to work out in space.

It just seems to me that Kelly is not very comfortable when playing from behind and his play calling dictates that. It is ok to take the layup instead of going for the three. A three yard rush in horrendous conditions is a win in a game like Saturday. Take the three yards, get three more, and then it gives you more options - including DK running - on third down. Incomplete pass, incomplete pass, incomplete 30 yard out for five yards was what we appeared to get Saturday.

 

[IrishLion]

Based on what? Neither team scored a touchdown.

Based on Josh Adams going beast-mode on his 3(?) downhill carries from the pistol in the fourth quarter, which was far too late a point to call for that strategy.

 

[IrishGlory]

I saw Colin McGovern hobbling pretty bad after a few snaps but he stayed in. I know he was injured the week before and it carried over into the game on Saturday. I personally thought he should have sat and allowed Hoge to take some snaps, especially in the conditions they were playing in.

 

[phgreek]

Based on what? Neither team scored a touchdown.



Kizer is more than capable of running the zone read.

We went all of 2014 with fans clamoring for zone read given that it was absent from the playbook, and then Kizer ran it well in 2015 and to start out 2016. Hell Kelly made a point of Kizer have too many rushing yards to start the season.

Zone read is great...love it in many instances. A monsoon isn't one of them. I love the vertical passing game in many instances. A monsoon isn't one of them.

Every college football team has downhill running plays...I am still waiting to hear something out of Kelly that makes me go...OH, THATs why he went slow developing runs. Otherwise, WTF was that?

EVERY pass pattern should have been come back, or quick hitter slant, speed out, arrow to TE with emphasis on attacking the ball at the high point. These are almost 100% pre-snap reads, and the ball is put in open space where your guy gets it or nothing. No risk of sack, minimize impact of weather on the play...and sets dline up to come out of their stance and look at the QB...which is the complement to the quick hitting down hill running game. ND has tall powerful receivers...my money was on them in close quarters...again I am waiting for something out of kelly that makes me go...OH thats why he chucked it down field so much...Otherwise, WTF was that?

 

[irishff1014]

He is a very good recruiter but his O line is getting worse as the season goes.