Off-topic posts formerly found in recruiting profiles

[Whiskeyjack]

Believe me when I say that "you can get a really good degree from anywhere" is a gross oversimplification. The support is different. The motive to do work off the field is different. The environment is different. The alumni network is different...

Great post. I wasn't looking to compare ND to OSU generally because, as you mentioned, they're just completely different institutions. IE's own Buster Bluth is a current OSU student, and I hold his intellect in very high esteem.

OSU has a great resources, but Craig Krenzel aside (the eternal example that gets trotted out every time someone questions OSU's academics), I don't know that football players have access to those resources in the same way as regular students. Cardale Jones isn't taking advantage of the Buckeye Bullet experience, for example.

I can't say it any better than Cardale did himself:

What ND is offering football recruits is categorically different than what's on offer by football factories like OSU.

 

[Irish#1]

Great post. I wasn't looking to compare ND to OSU generally because, as you mentioned, they're just completely different institutions. IE's own Buster Bluth is a current OSU student, and I hold his intellect in very high esteem.



I can't say it any better than Cardale did himself:

What ND is offering football recruits is categorically different than what's on offer by football factories like OSU.

These are the same kids that if they are lucky enough to make it to the NFL, will probably be broke when their career is over. Then they can lean on that OSU degree to save the day.

 

[OCIrish]

There is nothing funny about our elite players watching football games from the bench. I don't get it, how's that funny?

Aparently sarcasm is very much lost on you.......I got the joke right away.....smh

 

[Ndaccountant]

Great post. I wasn't looking to compare ND to OSU generally because, as you mentioned, they're just completely different institutions. IE's own Buster Bluth is a current OSU student, and I hold his intellect in very high esteem.



I can't say it any better than Cardale did himself:

What ND is offering football recruits is categorically different than what's on offer by football factories like OSU.

ND offers players to succeed athletically and in life post athletics. For the few that make the NFL, they will need it.

While turnover in the NFL is that much greater than the workplace, the turnover they experience is forced, which does differ from the rest of the workforce. From CBS:

There's always a natural flow of young talent into the NFL and this year is no exception. Things can change between now and kickoff on Sunday but here's the latest count on the rookie impact to the 2014 season. Two-hundred and 62 rookies made the final 53-man cut. There are 1,696 roster spots in the NFL which means this year saw a 15.4 percent turnover on rosters with veterans being shown the door.

This was, and still is, a good read (with the hardships of Rocket)

How (and Why) Athletes Go Broke - SI.com

 

[Irish Storm]

I have a real problem with this sentiment, which pops up on NDFB message boards frequently.

One of the mouth-breathers on Bucknuts commented "have fun losing to crappy ACC teams...", and MNIrishman pointed out the irony that OSU's only loss last year was to a very bad VT team. He didn't respond with "LOL ND > OSU"; he merely made a very appropriate observation about how stupid that comment was.

But any time we criticize one of the f*cking semi-pro football factories ND is constantly compared to, some salty old Subway Alum chimes in with, "We haven't won a championship in 27 years, guys..."

F*ck you. We competed for one three years ago with the best GSR in the nation. No team had ever been rated #1 in GSR and #1 in the polls before. Stanford is the only other school in the country who offers championship-caliber football and elite degree value.

It obviously chaps your as$ that Buckeye fans can beat their chests about the Natty on the bar stools next to yours. But if you can't muster a defense of ND until we win another championship (which may never happen), then that's a "you" problem. Have a little pride in your team, or find another program to root for.



Yeah, you really don't get ND.

Fuck me? We got destroyed by the number 2 team in the country. The only drama in that game was whether or not their QB and Center was going to make up before the final whistle.

Since then we have gone 8-4 and 7-5. Losing to seriously undermanned teams along the way. Believe it or not, 3 years ago wasn't just yesterday. I don't expect ND to win a bunch of titles like.Alabama does but heck, we can't even string a couple of 10-2 and 9-3 seasons together, much less string 11-1 and 12-0 seasons together.

I get Notre Dame. They can be draconian at times.but try to do the right thing as it relates to student athletes. I understand that college football past them by about 20 years ago. That is reality. To their credit, they have been taking serious steps to get with the times of modern college football over the last 5 or 6 years.

I don't really see any way to defend our play on the field over the past two seasons. Off the field I guess I could pound my chest and say how hard core the administration and honor code is by wiping out a bunch of kids careers because a chick proofread some papers. I really can't defend that and would be laughed out of town if I did. dont hang out at bars and really dont know any OSU fans but I know a great program and a great coach when I see one. They have both. By the way, ALL of these kids are going to be paid pretty soon so they will ALL be semi-pro teams then.

 

[Luckylucci]

Fuck me? We got destroyed by the number 2 team in the country. The only drama in that game was whether or not their QB and Center was going to make up before the final whistle.

Since then we have gone 8-4 and 7-5. Losing to seriously undermanned teams along the way. Believe it or not, 3 years ago wasn't just yesterday. I don't expect ND to win a bunch of titles like.Alabama does but heck, we can't even string a couple of 10-2 and 9-3 seasons together, much less string 11-1 and 12-0 seasons together.

I get Notre Dame. They can be draconian at times.but try to do the right thing as it relates to student athletes. I understand that college football past them by about 20 years ago. That is reality. To their credit, they have been taking serious steps to get with the times of modern college football over the last 5 or 6 years.

I don't really see any way to defend our play on the field over the past two seasons. Off the field I guess I could pound my chest and say how hard core the administration and honor code is by wiping out a bunch of kids careers because a chick proofread some papers. I really can't defend that and would be laughed out of town if I did. dont hang out at bars and really dont know any OSU fans but I know a great program and a great coach when I see one. They have both. By the way, ALL of these kids are going to be paid pretty soon so they will ALL be semi-pro teams then.

I have no desire to get into a debate over this but you should probably find another site for these bitch sessions and a new team to be a fan of. Coming here to spew your hatred for the team you're suppose to be a fan of is ridiculous.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Fuck me? We got destroyed by the number 2 team in the country. The only drama in that game was whether or not their QB and Center was going to make up before the final whistle.

No one here is happy with the way we played in Miami. We faced the best team 'Bama has fielded in the Saban era, and Diaco got utterly clowned by Nussmeier. We owe the guy some respect for rebuilding Weis' pathetic defense, but he clearly checked out at some point and really set us back.

Since then we have gone 8-4 and 7-5. Losing to seriously undermanned teams along the way. Believe it or not, 2012 was three years ago. I don't expect ND to win titles like.Alabama does but heck, we can't even string a couple of 10-2 and 9-3 seasons together, much less string 11-1 and 12-0 seasons together.

Notre Dame's ethical constraints guarantee we'll have perennial roster management issues that teams like OSU and 'Bama will never have to deal with. So when we get lucky with injuries, we can make a title run. But when we get unlucky (2013 and 2014), we struggle. Reeling off consecutive double digit win seasons ain't easy when ND refuses to schedule cupcakes or oversign.

I get Notre Dame. They can be draconian at times.but try to do the right thing as it relates to student athletes. I understand that college football past them by about 20 years ago. That is reality. To their credit, they have been taking serious steps to get with the times of modern college football over the last 5 or 6 years.

Swarbrick certainly deserves a lot of credit for getting the program up to date. But the current trends are not in ND's favor. If this craze for deregulation continues apace, it's going to result in a CFB funding arms race, which ND simply won't participate in.

I dont hang out at bars and really dont know any OSU fans but I know a great program and a great coach when I see one. They have both. By the way, ALL of these kids are going to be paid pretty soon so they will ALL be semi-pro teams then.

ND isn't going semi-pro. See the link above. I agree with you that CFB is headed for semi-pro status, but if that comes to pass, it's going to be the end of NDFB as we know it.

 

[MNIrishman]

I have no desire to get into a debate over this but you should probably find another site for these bitch sessions and a new team to be a fan of. Coming here to spew your hatred for the team you're suppose to be a fan of is ridiculous.

This. Dude doesn't get it. In Columbus, if you're a football player, you can get away with ANYTHING. The "game" hasn't passed us by. Everything that isn't the game has passed us by. It's the faculty and the reputation of these factories that are getting played for chumps in the name of the arms race.

Expel the entire football team if they cheat. Treating them like regular students is nothing shameful. Education first and foremost. Want football above all else? You already know where to look.

 

[NDgradstudent]

This. Dude doesn't get it. In Columbus, if you're a football player, you can get away with ANYTHING. The "game" hasn't passed us by. Everything that isn't the game has passed us by. It's the faculty and the reputation of these factories that are getting played for chumps in the name of the arms race.

Expel the entire football team if they cheat. Treating them like regular students is nothing shameful. Education first and foremost. Want football above all else? You already know where to look.

That's the key point here. I love when fans of the factories note that ND suspends players for academic reasons, thereby proving that ND athletes are no better than everyone else. Of course nobody has claimed ND athletes are flawless: the point is that the university holds them accountable for their behavior! Most universities only hold athletes accountable for serious crimes (at which point the district attorney is involved anyway); ND also holds athletes accountable for academic issues, such as cheating, failing a class, and so on. When was the last time you heard of Alabama, Ohio State, Florida, Oklahoma, or wherever suspend an athlete for academic infractions? Are we supposed to believe that they are all Rhodes Scholars, and that is why they have never been suspended?

I have TAed several classes at ND, and I can say honestly that (1) of course not all the athletes are geniuses (but then, most of us are not); (2) most of them say relatively intelligent things whenever they talk in class; (3) they do not skip class at a rate higher than other students; (4) they are not given breaks by the faculty or by TAs. Some faculty and TAs are oblivious about who particular athletes are. For example, one TA I knew had Cam McDaniel in her class and did not know who he was (this is probably the exception). In general, I am very impressed with the athletes at ND, across all of the sports.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Don't get me started on ohio state please.

 

[johnnycando]

Fuck Ohio St.

Fuck Urban Liar and his heart problems.

Go Irish!

 

[MNIrishman]

Don't get me started on ohio state please.

Please get started

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You don't think OSU's offensive line was better than ND's last year?

On a player for player basis??? One word. Simply. NO.

A good start for my logic is that Taylor Decker would have never started at left tackle at ND. Not last year, not the year before. Never.

So ND went from Martin and Watt on the left side to Stanley and Martin/Hegarty. Now with Martin healthy, do you see OSU bleeding off previous starters like Hegarty. A big difference between ND and OSU is the second team. ND clearly wins the depth argument.

A big deal has been made of the shuffling along the offensive line last year. ND's little toils and strains have more to do with offensive design and blocking schemes. OSU's jobs for O-linemen have been simpler. That is neither good or bad. It just is (the way it is).

So when I make my statement about the quality of ND's offensive line, player by player, I don't see a unit like OSU's as better. They were luckier with their injury situation. For example Nick Martin's hand/finger had a profound affect on the ND unit's play last year.

Also, OSU had much better (it appears) coached and integrated play from running backs and quarterbacks, as well as having an offense that favored line production. It will be interesting to see the progress and integration of OSU's running backs this year . . .

Another thing : I am really getting the idea that Kelly has been reigned in by Swarbrick and Jenkins. I think there are profound changes (that have been mandated) under the surface, that will make a huge performance difference for both offensive and defensive units.

Linking this post back to the thread, I think this is why Liam picks ND. In Kelly's presser yesterday he talked about the number of freshmen coming on campus this summer that are going to push upperclassmen for playing time. It isn't just lip service to say there is much more competition for position playing time at ND. That is why the ridiculous ratings of the ND offensive linemen class by class, especially since Harry has been here make a difference. ND has the highest rated linemen as a group of any school in the nation. With the hat-trick that Harry is going for this year, nothing will change.

Yes I strongly feel ND can say their offensive line is as good, player for player as OSU's is; maybe even better. How the overall team performs is a different question.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

Ohio State didn't turn the ball over with quarterbacks starting for the first time and Notre Dame turned it over.

In my opinion, I think Ohio State's schedule benefited their youthful team. They didn't have a game where they truly needed to get up for until Michigan State in week 10. Yes, I know they lost to Va Tech, but even I am perplexed on how both teams took opposite directions on momentum after that.

But, Ohio State got 9 games to work things out and for their young guns to get experience. Notre Dame didn't have that luxury with Michigan, Stanford and FSU in the first 6 games.

After the MSU game, they simply just had all the momentum in the world going for them. Remember 2012? Once a team gets momentum and sees the light at the end of the tunnel....hunger and belief kicks in.

I am still speechless over what they did to Alabama and the performances of Cardale Jones. Hats off to Urban, Cardale, the Oline and Elliott. If Kiffin didn't get fancy, I think we see a Bama/Oregon game if Bama simply fed Derrick Henry.

Anyway, a team that simply believes is had to beat and when that team actually has talent, it's very hard to beat. Notre Dame had to opposite happen to them. They never recovered from the FSU game and then injury after injury after injury hit the defense.

From a pure talent standpoint, ND is right there with OSU. Its the simple things that are difference.

 

[IrishLion]

On a player for player basis??? One word. Simply. NO.

A good start for my logic is that Taylor Decker would have never started at left tackle at ND. Not last year, not the year before. Never.

So ND went from Martin and Watt on the left side to Stanley and Martin/Hegarty. Now with Martin healthy, do you see OSU bleeding off previous starters like Hegarty. A big difference between ND and OSU is the second team. ND clearly wins the depth argument.

A big deal has been made of the shuffling along the offensive line last year. ND's little toils and strains have more to do with offensive design and blocking schemes. OSU's jobs for O-linemen have been simpler. That is neither good or bad. It just is (the way it is).

So when I make my statement about the quality of ND's offensive line, player by player, I don't see a unit like OSU's as better. They were luckier with their injury situation. For example Nick Martin's hand/finger had a profound affect on the ND unit's play last year.

Also, OSU had much better (it appears) coached and integrated play from running backs and quarterbacks, as well as having an offense that favored line production. It will be interesting to see the progress and integration of OSU's running backs this year . . .

Another thing : I am really getting the idea that Kelly has been reigned in by Swarbrick and Jenkins. I think there are profound changes (that have been mandated) under the surface, that will make a huge performance difference for both offensive and defensive units.

Linking this post back to the thread, I think this is why Liam picks ND. In Kelly's presser yesterday he talked about the number of freshmen coming on campus this summer that are going to push upperclassmen for playing time. It isn't just lip service to say there is much more competition for position playing time at ND. That is why the ridiculous ratings of the ND offensive linemen class by class, especially since Harry has been here make a difference. ND has the highest rated linemen as a group of any school in the nation. With the hat-trick that Harry is going for this year, nothing will change.

Yes I strongly feel ND can say their offensive line is as good, player for player as OSU's is; maybe even better. How the overall team performs is a different question.

I think OSU's line was better than ND's last year. Regardless of an injury to Martin, style of play, schemes, gameplans, schedules, etc. etc... OSU's line outperformed everybody, especially down the stretch, with the way they took advantage of defenses worrying about Cardale.

It reminded me of ND 2012, actually. ND's tremendous o-line in 2012 took over when they needed to, no problem. They took advantage of Theo running like a madman between the tackles, and they took advantage of their greatest skills, which were pulling around and lead blocking with momentum.

On a player-for-player basis, ND probably has more talent, but they simply didn't put it together until the LSU game, whereas OSU had it together for a longer time, and for a more impressive stretch. Just like in 2012, where ND had guys like Golic and Lombard playing above their own ceilings to make the entire unit better, OSU had a unit that elevated in the face of QB adversity and performed out of their minds.

 

[ulukinatme]

I think OSU's line was better than ND's last year. Regardless of an injury to Martin, style of play, schemes, gameplans, schedules, etc. etc... OSU's line outperformed everybody, especially down the stretch, with the way they took advantage of defenses worrying about Cardale.

It reminded me of ND 2012, actually. ND's tremendous o-line in 2012 took over when they needed to, no problem. They took advantage of Theo running like a madman between the tackles, and they took advantage of their greatest skills, which were pulling around and lead blocking with momentum.

On a player-for-player basis, ND probably has more talent, but they simply didn't put it together until the LSU game, whereas OSU had it together for a longer time, and for a more impressive stretch. Just like in 2012, where ND had guys like Golic and Lombard playing above their own ceilings to make the entire unit better, OSU had a unit that elevated in the face of QB adversity and performed out of their minds.

I agree. I think we have more talent, but I wonder if we always get as much out of our guys as tOSU did last season. I'm not going to comment about any other seasons as I don't watch tOSU OL play as much as I watch ours. I think we have the edge in pass protection (For the most part...we did struggle a few times with it last season) and I think Warriner coached tOSU better in the run game. Warriner can't bring in talent like Harry can, but I've said for awhile that I think Warriner excels with the running game and gets the most out of his guys in that area. So, maybe it's a bit like apples to oranges in the comparison. I'm certainly not the only one that feels that way. When we played NC last year Coach Gilmore perceived that we were a finesse team up front based on what our OL was doing. He says he was surprised in the Spring to see the physicality that our guys could bring, it would be nice to see more of that on game days instead of relying so much on the pass. Finesse doesn't win you championships, based on recent winners.

 

[dublinirish]

does BK have the discipline in himself to run a ball control run first offense though? it just does not seem to mesh with his personality. he's not a conservative guy by any means

 

[Buster Bluth]

I write this while being five feet away from my Ohio State diploma and with an Ohio State grad school application open on another tab:

FUCKING HELL PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT OHIO STATE PLEASE GOD PLEASE

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

I write this while being five feet away from my Ohio State diploma and with an Ohio State grad school application open on another tab:

FUCKING HELL PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT OHIO STATE PLEASE GOD PLEASE

That would explain the lack of punctuation.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Brian Kelly on Irish’s QBs: ‘I’d take our two over Ohio State’s’ | CollegeFootballTalk

Same argument as before. O$U fans are morons, discuss.

 

[connor_in]

Brian Kelly on Irish’s QBs: ‘I’d take our two over Ohio State’s’ | CollegeFootballTalk

Same argument as before. O$U fans are morons, discuss.

Read the comments on that article....JUST.WOW.

for so many of them to go to what is essentially a ND site and just act so obnoxiously butthurt is amazing. If they truly feel they are so great, why would they even take the time to comment and just laugh off the comment and go on about their day.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think OSU's line was better than ND's last year. Regardless of an injury to Martin, style of play, schemes, gameplans, schedules, etc. etc... OSU's line outperformed everybody, especially down the stretch, with the way they took advantage of defenses worrying about Cardale.

It reminded me of ND 2012, actually. ND's tremendous o-line in 2012 took over when they needed to, no problem. They took advantage of Theo running like a madman between the tackles, and they took advantage of their greatest skills, which were pulling around and lead blocking with momentum.

On a player-for-player basis, ND probably has more talent, but they simply didn't put it together until the LSU game, whereas OSU had it together for a longer time, and for a more impressive stretch. Just like in 2012, where ND had guys like Golic and Lombard playing above their own ceilings to make the entire unit better, OSU had a unit that elevated in the face of QB adversity and performed out of their minds.

Since the posts in Liam's thread got moved :

Where aren't we saying the same thing? My point is their is a huge difference in the operational performance level of the unit and it's overall talent.

Simply ND's offense and blocking scheme make the unit look like it is performing much more poorly than it really is. See all of Gilmore's comments about the O-line, his view of them while playing against them last fall, versus his view while practicing against them this spring.

The reason I keep coming back to this point is that if Kelly gets the kinks that he is ultimately responsible for, worked out, the same ND offensive line is going to reach stratospheric heights. (Eg.,) 50 + yard touchdown runs by CJ aren't going to be that uncommon, nor are longer runs by MZ. Etc.

A) The current governor to the productivity of ND's offensive line is blocking schemes and offensive design.

B) There are tangible things Kelly can do to maximize the effects of the offensive line, to show that they are a superior group to a given school, say OSU. These kinks are in the process of being ironed out. If not, I believe the rumors that Father Jenkins and Jack Swarbrick are going to iron out Brian Kelly.

 

[ACamp1900]

'Buckeye fan' should have its own chapter in the merry book of social disorders.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Read the comments on that article....JUST.WOW.

for so many of them to go to what is essentially a ND site and just act so obnoxiously butthurt is amazing. If they truly feel they are so great, why would they even take the time to comment and just laugh off the comment and go on about their day.

Some people cannot integrate more drugs, alcohol, or violence in their shallow lives.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Is it theoretically possible for me to post about recruits in this thread thereby derailing an off topic thread?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

'Buckeye fan' should have its own chapter in the merry book of social disorders.

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​

Yup, it's covered!​

 

[IrishLion]

Where aren't we saying the same thing? My point is their is a huge difference in the operational performance level of the unit and it's overall talent.

You said you would have a long argument with anyone suggesting that OSU's line has been superior to ND's at any point since 2012.

We agree on ND probably having more talent, but OSU performing better.

We just disagree on what that means in terms of an offensive line being "superior."

I argue that because of all of the factors involved, OSU's line was superior to ND's last year, and I honestly don't see a case where one could argue otherwise. ND may have more talent, but it has only manifested itself as potential (and one great performance against LSU), whereas OSU put their superiority on display for three straight games against great competition.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

You said you would have a long argument with anyone suggesting that OSU's line has been superior to ND's at any point since 2012.

We agree on ND probably having more talent, but OSU performing better.

We just disagree on what that means in terms of an offensive line being "superior."

I argue that because of all of the factors involved, OSU's line was superior to ND's last year, and I honestly don't see a case where one could argue otherwise. ND may have more talent, but it has only manifested itself as potential (and one great performance against LSU), whereas OSU put their superiority on display for three straight games against great competition.

Did you see any early season games of OSU?

In fact, did you see the Michigan game, a common opponent? (OSU Provided such good QB protection [at the end of the regular season] that they got the hell kicked out of their quarterback by a Michigan line ND totally handled. And then they got his leg horribly broken. And to add what TP said, which virtually guaranteed them the national championship with a simplified offense added for his 260lb replacement! OMG Becky!)

 

[Legacy]

CARDALE JONES AND J.T. BARRETT TALK ABOUT THE QB COMPETITION, REPEATING AS CHAMPIONS, AND DISSING NOTRE DAME

I guess blogs are as much for expressing negative emotions as for anything insightful. I wouoldn't expect that if someone put a microphone to two of ND's players that they would have similar comments about Ohio State. In the end, you wonder if that is a factor in a recruit's final decision.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

CARDALE JONES AND J.T. BARRETT TALK ABOUT THE QB COMPETITION, REPEATING AS CHAMPIONS, AND DISSING NOTRE DAME

I guess blogs are as much for expressing negative emotions as for anything insightful. I wouoldn't expect that if someone put a microphone to two of ND's players that they would have similar comments about Ohio State. In the end, you wonder if that is a factor in a recruit's final decision.

You gotta like his style!