Next year's coach!

[irishff1014]

Why on Earth would Chip Kelly consider ND?

Kinda what I was thinking. With school like Miami if they dont win more soon golden will be gone. Chip in Miami wow talk about good.

 

[beryirish]

Wow. New threads should be screened before being posted. Ridiculous.

 

[IrishLax]

I think the real question is...why would any good coach consider ND? We might be royally screwed if Kelly does leave, I can't imagine who we would get at this point in time.

It's as simple as $$. ND admin has not shown they're willing to break the bank because of how absolutely moronic the deal White made with Weis was. That's why Stoops didn't get the money he wanted and we got Kelly, and that's why there was the interesting game of chicken with Kelly and the Eagles. And that's why Kelly's current contract (allegedly) doesn't provide much security to either side.

You pony up elite money, you will get an elite coach. The end.

I don't think it's set in stone that our admin... should Kelly leave... wouldn't be willing shell out the $$. I understand why they wouldn't, but the fact that Nick Saban will no longer be an outlier AND that your regional powers will be two of the biggest spenders should present serious evidence/pressure on them to open the checkbook.

And frankly, the idea that ND is a "bad" destination is flat out stupid. People grossly exaggerate the negatives of the job. It's really absurd. If ND is willing to pay the money, they will get their guy.

 

[MJ12666]

Are you serious?

First of all, the only reason he left college was that he was scared of looming sanctions and a show cause penalty. He had to get out before Lache Seastrunk caught up with him.

Any discussion on Chip Kelly is entirely predicated on him failing to make the playoffs again next season, and the Eagles having no patience for a coach producing markedly worse results than Andy Reid. So a lot of it is pointless at this juncture, but you could've said the same about Harbaugh last year at this time. The stars had to align to get him out of San Francisco.

Enter the hypothetical scenario where Brian Kelly leaves next year. Chip Kelly has two choices... find another NFL team (very possible) or return to college. In the event that ND is willing to pay top dollar, there is little doubt that it would be one of if not the single best collegiate landing spot for him. Consider that you would have a roster with a talented OL, 3 extremely talented dual-threat QBs, and WRs that are better than anything he had at Oregon. He has all the pieces except stud speedster RBs to run his offense.

Chip Kelly is making $6.5mil/year with the Eagles. If he got fired, it's doubtful any other club seeking his services would pay him more than $5mil/year. If ND threw Harbaugh style money at him, it'd be an extremely enticing offer.

In short, if Chip Kelly fails with the Eagles and can't latch on somewhere else in the NFL his only route is back to college... if back to college, what other Tier 1 schools would be a better fit and hiring next year? It's a lot more plausible than you think, but he needs to fail with the Eagles first.

There is one other issue that you are ignoring. ND declined to hire O'Leary because he listed somewhere on the bottom of his resume that he played in college at New Hampshire. Can they now (or next year assuming your scenario plays out) ignore Kelly's actions that at Oregon?

 

[phork]

It's as simple as $$. ND admin has not shown they're willing to break the bank because of how absolutely moronic the deal White made with Weis was. That's why Stoops didn't get the money he wanted and we got Kelly, and that's why there was the interesting game of chicken with Kelly and the Eagles. And that's why Kelly's current contract (allegedly) doesn't provide much security to either side.

You pony up elite money, you will get an elite coach. The end.

I don't think it's set in stone that our admin... should Kelly leave... wouldn't be willing shell out the $$. I understand why they wouldn't, but the fact that Nick Saban will no longer be an outlier AND that your regional powers will be two of the biggest spenders should present serious evidence/pressure on them to open the checkbook.

And frankly, the idea that ND is a "bad" destination is flat out stupid. People grossly exaggerate the negatives of the job. It's really absurd. If ND is willing to pay the money, they will get their guy.

Grossly exaggerated? Just having to deal with student conduct alone would be enough for me to stay the hell away. Add in no JUCOs, add in dealing with alums (which I know happens at every school but seems worse at ND), add in strict adherence to academics.. Sorry I don't see why anyone would come here, let alone Chip Kelly. Money or not the weight of those things hold your future in their hand and you have ZERO control over any of them.

 

[tko]

So Brian Kelly is gone as the head coach of Notre Dame? Can't find a press release anywhere, please paste link. Thanks.

Love you, Sherm!

 

[ulukinatme]

It's as simple as $$. ND admin has not shown they're willing to break the bank because of how absolutely moronic the deal White made with Weis was. That's why Stoops didn't get the money he wanted and we got Kelly, and that's why there was the interesting game of chicken with Kelly and the Eagles. And that's why Kelly's current contract (allegedly) doesn't provide much security to either side.

You pony up elite money, you will get an elite coach. The end.

I don't think it's set in stone that our admin... should Kelly leave... wouldn't be willing shell out the $$. I understand why they wouldn't, but the fact that Nick Saban will no longer be an outlier AND that your regional powers will be two of the biggest spenders should present serious evidence/pressure on them to open the checkbook.

And frankly, the idea that ND is a "bad" destination is flat out stupid. People grossly exaggerate the negatives of the job. It's really absurd. If ND is willing to pay the money, they will get their guy.

I think that's the problem though. We COULD still be a top program and get just about whoever we wanted, but we don't have the $$$ leverage. I mean, in reality we should since we bring in the most cash outside of Texas, but because of White's boneheaded BS we're going to underpay our coaches for awhile. It sucks that we bring in so much money, but we aren't/can't shell it out.

 

[NDohio]

My understanding of the rules, which could be wrong, is that the show cause has expired.

You are correct. It expired Christmas Day.

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

You said Willingham. I assume you meant Wittingham.

My choices would be Wittingham and Mendenhal.

I don't know - having our coach be on the selection committee might be the only way ND gets noticed by them.

And Phork, did you look outside of Utah when seeking coaches??? - lol, I'm a huge Wittingham fan and think he would be great.



As for BK, maybe he should practice what he preaches about 40 year decisions (though in his case it might be 25-30) and look at Lou Holtz. If we finish out this recruiting class well and it is the best one under Kelly (as he has indicated), he would be stupid to leave ND in the next 3 years. If (big if) he is as good as a coach as he think himself to be, he has this talent, and we get some favorable breaks with the schedule like this year (usually good teams being down): ND should make the playoff - again BIG IF.

Once in the playoff, anything can happen. And if ND wins a championship or has a couple playoff appearances, BK will be set for life and won't need the NFL. He'll become a legend like Lou, get ESPN gigs until the day he dies, give talks for an hour for $300K, etc. Being a championship coach at ND is a 40 year decision - imho.

 

[IrishLax]

Grossly exaggerated? Just having to deal with student conduct alone would be enough for me to stay the hell away.

Overstated. How many players did Kelly lose to ResLife in his time here?

Add in no JUCOs,

Grossly overstated in importance. It's very necessary for programs like KSU, or for overhauling an untalented roster. If you have a good roster, you never take more than a couple JUCOs a year, and taking zero isn't the end of the world.

add in dealing with alums (which I know happens at every school but seems worse at ND)

It's not. In fact, it's better in terms of outside $$ you make for appearances and endorsements and such.

add in strict adherence to academics..

Academic casualties? I count 6 total off the top of my head including the Frozen Five. Count how many the typical SEC school has even insulating players.

Admittance? Not nearly as hard as Stanford, and freaking Duke wins 9 games a year in the ACC.

Sorry I don't see why anyone would come here, let alone Chip Kelly. Money or not the weight of those things hold your future in their hand and you have ZERO control over any of them.

You can't just say "money or not" like that makes it true. Money matters. You pay top dollar, you get a top coach. Period.

People love to list all the minor hurdles like weather and academics and blah blah blah like those are dealbreakers. They simply aren't. Lest you forget Kelly went 12-0 showing it 100% can be done... and routinely recruits top 10ish classes with all of these supposed hurdles.

Truth is every job has hurdles. Baylor before Briles was considered impossible to win at and a Big 12 doormat because of the lack of history, facilities, tradition, all the talent went to Texas/Oklahoma/A&M, etc. Stanford was "impossible" to win at with their academics, lack of investment, lack of fans, lack of alumni support, terrible facilities, etc. They went 16-40 before Harbaugh only once finishing better than T8th in the PAC10. Then they had 4 straight seasons of 11+ wins.

Truisms and perceived obstacles only exist inasmuch as you don't attempt to correct them. There are very few issues that you can't fix by simply throwing giant globs of money at them.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Jerry Kill, Minnesota. If for some reason this happened, I would definitely give this guy a call right after Whittingham.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

And frankly, the idea that ND is a "bad" destination is flat out stupid. People grossly exaggerate the negatives of the job. It's really absurd. If ND is willing to pay the money, they will get their guy.

It makes no more sense to focus only on coaching salaries than it does on any of our numerous roster management restrictions. It's all part of the same issue. If the BoT decides that having a top tier football program is worth the costs, then it'll pay top dollar and give that new coach the autonomy he needs to compete. That's all there is to it.

 

[IrishLax]

I think that's the problem though. We COULD still be a top program and get just about whoever we wanted, but we don't have the $$$ leverage. I mean, in reality we should since we bring in the most cash outside of Texas, but because of White's boneheaded BS we're going to underpay our coaches for awhile. It sucks that we bring in so much money, but we aren't/can't shell it out.

Yup. The classic difference between "could" and "will."

Again, I'm not convinced that Kelly leaving with Harbaugh going to Michigan for absurd money wouldn't be a huge wakeup call for the people in charge of what market value is for an elite guy.

But first things first we need to get out from under the Weis contract, which expires in 2015. We still pay him $2mil/year. When you consider that the obligation to Kelly is somewhere in the neighborhood of $4mil/year+$2mil/year for Weis it stands to reason we could pay the "next man in" at least $6mil/year.

And if you factor in the new Under Armour money and the escalation of coaching contracts? It's not unreasonable that we'd pay a head guy $7mil/year in total compensation.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Lax: I disagree with the money being the be-all, end-all. Bob Stoops didn't come to ND because they didn't have a big enough pool to pay the assistants a decent salary AND because he wanted lesser standards on football players. The former is fixable. The latter, without compromising ND's grad rates and reputation, is a slippery slope. Good coaches making good money aren't going to subject themselves to ND's special challenges when they could make a great salary at a different school minus all the bullshit.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Whiskey: I see what you're saying about ND's ethical views and how they would be compromised if ND made changes. However, I think some are just ridiculous and a bit self-righteous. I don't mean to offend any alums or traditionalists, but there is plenty of room for improvement in regards to handling the football team w/o completely selling your soul to the devil himself and hiring bagmen and hookers.

Change number one needs to be increasing the money pool for assistants. That is completely harmless and does not look bad on ND whatsoever. I think minor insulation of the football team should be on the table as well. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I truly don't see why ND can't offer better facilities and better housing for athletes. Is it really that important to the community that football players be forced to live with non-athletes? I realize some players grow used to it and actually enjoy it, but my guess is if they had a choice, they'd choose a different living situation.

I'm sure there are plenty of other changes that don't jeopardize ND's values. These are just off the top of my head.

 

[kmoose]

In the event that ND is willing to pay top dollar, there is little doubt that it would be one of if not the single best collegiate landing spot for him. Consider that you would have a roster with a talented OL, 3 extremely talented dual-threat QBs, and WRs that are better than anything he had at Oregon. He has all the pieces except stud speedster RBs to run his offense.

I don't disagree that ND would have a talented roster for a coach, if Kelly left next year, but Chip Kelly's spread features and is built around stud speedster RBs. I'd venture to say that, in Chip Kelly's spread, having the right RBs is more important than having the right receivers.

 

[TheChosen1]

And this will be so apparent on the first series. We'll quickly see where his head is and where his team is.

Rolling the dice with MZ. Can anyone read into that. I think some can/will.

 

[kmoose]

and freaking Duke wins 9 games a year in the ACC.

They do? They have won 9 or more, the last two seasons (this season and last), but previous to that, you have to go back to the Pearl Harbor era (1941) to find a 9 win season at Duke.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskey: I see what you're saying about ND's ethical views and how they would be compromised if ND made changes. However, I think some are just ridiculous and a bit self-righteous. I don't mean to offend any alums or traditionalists, but there is plenty of room for improvement in regards to handling the football team w/o completely selling your soul to the devil himself and hiring bagmen and hookers.

I haven't made any normative arguments about what ND should or should not do regarding the direction of the football program. I've gone on record here many times stating that ND will not be able to maintain both its ethical integrity and its competitiveness as a top tier football program.

Seems like our only disagreement is over the significance of the necessary changes, especially with how central the football team is to ND's self-image. I don't see any middle ground here where ND isolates the football program for competitive advantage but maintains its current identity. Either play to win or don't play at all.

Change number one needs to be increasing the money pool for assistants. That is completely harmless and does not look bad on ND whatsoever.

Looking at each possible change in a vacuum would be misleading. There's obviously nothing wrong per se with paying top dollar for coaching talent. But how much we pay our coaches relates to whether we view football as: (1) a lucrative business and advertising platform; or (2) as merely the most visible of our many excellent athletics programs, which produce lots of eloquent student-athletes.

I think minor insulation of the football team should be on the table as well. Again, I don't mean to offend anyone, but I truly don't see why ND can't offer better facilities and better housing for athletes. Is it really that important to the community that football players be forced to live with non-athletes? I realize some players grow used to it and actually enjoy it, but my guess is if they had a choice, they'd choose a different living situation.

See above. It matters because it gets at the heart of why we have a football team. Shifting our outlook from (2) to (1) would require a major change in how the University views itself and its mission.

 

[IrishLax]

They do? They have won 9 or more, the last two seasons

Exactly.

 

[wizards8507]

*snip*

*snip*

BBG, I think you and Whiskey are understanding the word "values" differently. Whiskey seems to agree that many of the changes you propose would be fine from an ethical / integrity standpoint, but there's a certain element of "the way things are done" at Notre Dame that falls outside of a strictly ethical versus unethical framework. For example, athletes being an integrated part of the student body might not compromise the program or university's integrity, but they would compromise our tradition and other beliefs that we've tried to espouse for decades.

 

[kmoose]

Exactly.

That could be the result of one exceptional athlete, and they may go back to winning 3-4-5 games a year, as soon as that guy is gone. Similar to when El Roberson elevated Kansas State from just a good team, to one of the top teams in the country. Once he left, they went back to being just another good team again.

 

[SoIll]

all Im going to say is brace yourselves. We are in for interesting ride. If Bk goes or not, all ND would have to do is pony up some $. 6-8 million a year talks, and for you people saying BK is underpaid, that may be true, but we will never really know how much he makes. He makes more then people know. The problem is, next year would be the ideal time for all this to happen. Only a select few to pick from this year if he would leave.

Sign me up for Whittingham. The guy is the truth

 

[Irish#1]

Are you serious?

First of all, the only reason he left college was that he was scared of looming sanctions and a show cause penalty. He had to get out before Lache Seastrunk caught up with him.

Any discussion on Chip Kelly is entirely predicated on him failing to make the playoffs again next season, and the Eagles having no patience for a coach producing markedly worse results than Andy Reid. So a lot of it is pointless at this juncture, but you could've said the same about Harbaugh last year at this time. The stars had to align to get him out of San Francisco.

Enter the hypothetical scenario where Brian Kelly leaves next year. Chip Kelly has two choices... find another NFL team (very possible) or return to college. In the event that ND is willing to pay top dollar, there is little doubt that it would be one of if not the single best collegiate landing spot for him. Consider that you would have a roster with a talented OL, 3 extremely talented dual-threat QBs, and WRs that are better than anything he had at Oregon. He has all the pieces except stud speedster RBs to run his offense.

Chip Kelly is making $6.5mil/year with the Eagles. If he got fired, it's doubtful any other club seeking his services would pay him more than $5mil/year. If ND threw Harbaugh style money at him, it'd be an extremely enticing offer.

In short, if Chip Kelly fails with the Eagles and can't latch on somewhere else in the NFL his only route is back to college... if back to college, what other Tier 1 schools would be a better fit and hiring next year? It's a lot more plausible than you think, but he needs to fail with the Eagles first.

I disagree with this. If CK gets canned I think the chances of him landing another NFL job are slim. His highly praised offense has stumbled and sputtered due to injuries and more importantly, teams catching onto his offense and finding ways to slow it down. His offense is much better suited for college and high school, not the NFL.

 

[PerthDomer]

I'd sit Gary Pinkell and Art Briles down in a room. I'd ask how much they're being paid
I'd ask how they feel about Strong rebuilding Texas. Then I'd ask how they feel about being passed by undeserving name programs like OSU. Then I'd hand them a blank checkbook and say whoever wants it gets it.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

BBG, I think you and Whiskey are understanding the word "values" differently. Whiskey seems to agree that many of the changes you propose would be fine from an ethical / integrity standpoint, but there's a certain element of "the way things are done" at Notre Dame that falls outside of a strictly ethical versus unethical framework. For example, athletes being an integrated part of the student body might not compromise the program or university's integrity, but they would compromise our tradition and other beliefs that we've tried to espouse for decades.

I understand that completely. It can be a very touchy subject for alums or traditionalists and it's why I'm trying to tread lightly and not offend anyone. I just personally feel that the football program, as much as anyone may hate to admit it, is above all other athletics at this University. Therefore, I see no problem with some flexibility, in terms of making some changes that don't threaten the academic side of the argument, but maybe lighten up on the "But that's not what ND stands for" side. That may be vague, but I honestly feel like there is a way to say Notre Dame is about being the best and doing it the right way w/o completely putting down the most historical program in all of sports and without completely selling out in support of it. There is a middle ground and I'd love for the fanatics and the traditionalists (who may not be football fans) to come to some sort of solution to benefit both parties.

 

[IrishLax]

I disagree with this. If CK gets canned I think the chances of him landing another NFL job are slim. His highly praised offense has stumbled and sputtered due to injuries and more importantly, teams catching onto his offense and finding ways to slow it down. His offense is much better suited for college and high school, not the NFL.

Right, I said possible not probable. If he gets canned he could latch on somewhere if there's an owner who's a believer but they'd almost certainly pursue at a discounted rate not the $6mil he's making now.

 

[Cackalacky]

Sooooo.... how exactly does one get on the BoT? And how do we stack it with IE members?

This along with finding the right Tectonic Plate bag man and things ought to get rolling within the next epoch.

 

[GoldenDomer]

I'd sit Gary Pinkell and Art Briles down in a room. I'd ask how much they're being paid
I'd ask how they feel about Strong rebuilding Texas. Then I'd ask how they feel about being passed by undeserving name programs like OSU. Then I'd hand them a blank checkbook and say whoever wants it gets it.

This. Give me Pinkell.

 

[tussin]

Right, I said possible not probable. If he gets canned he could latch on somewhere if there's an owner who's a believer but they'd almost certainly pursue at a discounted rate not the $6mil he's making now.

Philly media is absolutely in love with Chip and there would need to be a MAJOR fall from grace for that relationship to turn sour. Most of the blame for Philly's recent slide has fallen on Roseman.