Michigan Post-Game Thread

[IrishLion]

The first deep throw to Boykin, where he made the catch despite being interfered with, was going to be a TD if not for the defensive penalty. I choose to believe based on one game that Boykin is going to have a monster year, and he's going to start by terrorizing Ball State's DB's this weekend for the entire first half.

On that 3rd-and-18 'QB Draw' that got a first down, Wimbush put his head down and laid out for the extra yards, even though he knew he was about to get smashed by at least three defenders all converging at the same point. Last year against UGA, he had a few opportunities to generate first-down yardage by doing that, but he chose to avoid contact and make the cut, instead. If he has a greater understanding of 'make a cut on an early down' vs 'put your head down, protect the ball, and get the yards' on key downs, he's going to be tough to stop, even if he doesn't dramatically improve his completion percentage.

Hype train is nearly at top speed.

 

[zelezo vlk]

The first deep throw to Boykin, where he made the catch despite being interfered with, was going to be a TD if not for the defensive penalty. I choose to believe based on one game that Boykin is going to have a monster year, and he's going to start by terrorizing Ball State's DB's this weekend for the entire first half.

On that 3rd-and-18 'QB Draw' that got a first down, Wimbush put his head down and laid out for the extra yards, even though he knew he was about to get smashed by at least three defenders all converging at the same point. Last year against UGA, he had a few opportunities to generate first-down yardage by doing that, but he chose to avoid contact and make the cut, instead. If he has a greater understanding of 'make a cut on an early down' vs 'put your head down, protect the ball, and get the yards' on key downs, he's going to be tough to stop, even if he doesn't dramatically improve his completion percentage.

Hype train is nearly at top speed.

Inb4 Boykin is the next Corey Davis

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

The first deep throw to Boykin, where he made the catch despite being interfered with, was going to be a TD if not for the defensive penalty. I choose to believe based on one game that Boykin is going to have a monster year, and he's going to start by terrorizing Ball State's DB's this weekend for the entire first half.

On that 3rd-and-18 'QB Draw' that got a first down, Wimbush put his head down and laid out for the extra yards, even though he knew he was about to get smashed by at least three defenders all converging at the same point. Last year against UGA, he had a few opportunities to generate first-down yardage by doing that, but he chose to avoid contact and make the cut, instead. If he has a greater understanding of 'make a cut on an early down' vs 'put your head down, protect the ball, and get the yards' on key downs, he's going to be tough to stop, even if he doesn't dramatically improve his completion percentage.

Hype train is nearly at top speed.

I loved the moxie he showed on that run, too. He took the hit, fell forward 3 yards past the sticks and flipped the ball forward when he got up.

It was basically the equivalent of a bat flip on the football field.

 

[ACamp1900]

Brandon needs to know when and where with that stuff too tho... if the game isn’t hanging in the balance to give that up and live to fight another day.

 

[dad4aa]

The first deep throw to Boykin, where he made the catch despite being interfered with, was going to be a TD if not for the defensive penalty. I choose to believe based on one game that Boykin is going to have a monster year, and he's going to start by terrorizing Ball State's DB's this weekend for the entire first half.

On that 3rd-and-18 'QB Draw' that got a first down, Wimbush put his head down and laid out for the extra yards, even though he knew he was about to get smashed by at least three defenders all converging at the same point. Last year against UGA, he had a few opportunities to generate first-down yardage by doing that, but he chose to avoid contact and make the cut, instead. If he has a greater understanding of 'make a cut on an early down' vs 'put your head down, protect the ball, and get the yards' on key downs, he's going to be tough to stop, even if he doesn't dramatically improve his completion percentage.

Hype train is nearly at top speed.

He also lost another TD when he lined up incorrectly. He could easily have been over 100 yards with 2 TDs. Big things coming from him this year.

 

[Irish#1]

I loved the moxie he showed on that run, too. He took the hit, fell forward 3 yards past the sticks and flipped the ball forward when he got up.

It was basically BW standing up and saying "F@ck Michigan!"

FIFY

 

[Irish YJ]

I was going to rewatch the game anyway, but after talking to one of my buddies, focused on only BW's touches in the first half..... He basically said a lot of things "went our way" so I wanted to prove him wrong.... I ended up proving him right depending on how you view things.

First Drive 1Q
14:40 / 2-10 / Inc long right / bad pass behind Claypool who saved INT
14:33 / 3-10 / comp +15ish short left to Claypool with YAC
14:18 / 1-10 / comp mid left to Boykin who was held for 30ish yards / Great pass led recver
14:02 / 1-10 / Inc mid left / bad throw / assume attempt was to Claypool
13:50 / 2-10 / Des QB run +4ish / poked in eye with face mask penalty
Book comes in and hands off to RB for TD

Summary: one great pass and one good, 2 bad passes (one could have been an INT). Aided by penalty

Second Drive 1Q
9:13 / 3-9 / 50-50 ball to Mack in triple coverage / great catch / dangerous throw / missed wide open rcvr over the middle for 1st
8:17 / 2-8 / short pass to Armstrong +2
7:42 / 3-6 / pocket collapse, BW run for 7 and a first down
7:21 / 1-10 / Long 30-70 pass to Finke for TD / could have easily been an INT

Summary: Two long gains (one for TD) by 50/50 or worse passes, one good short pass, one great run for a first

Third Drive 1Q
1:58 / 2-13 / Bad screen completion for short loss/ rcvr had to dive
1:21 / 3-14 / Pocket collapse, good step up, bad pass attempt to an open Boykin

Summary - two bad passes, punt

Forth Drive 2Q
11:25 / 1-10 / QB designed run +6
11:00 / 2-4 / QB des run +2
10:14 / 3-2 / slow getting play in resulting in TO / QB des run +4
8:00 / 3-3 / penalty holding the rcvr / smart play by BW to toss it that way but was locked in all the way
7:25 / 1-15 / QB des run +11
7:04 / 2-4 / short good toss/completion to Finke +6
6:42 / 1-10 / QB (des?) run +3
5:44 / 3-7 / QB run
5:38 / 4 and inches / QB run for 1st down
5:12 / 1 and G / Sack / had open rcvrs
4:36 / 2 and G / Good screen pass to Armstrong
4:05 / 3 and G / Missed an open Boykin in the Endzone / BW hit late and we get a roughing call
Book comes in and hands off for TD

Summary - Long drive aided by 2 D penalties. lots of QB runs. 2 good short passes, took one bad sack, missed open rcvrs a few times.

Fifth Drive
2:23 / 2-7 / short toss to Davis +3
1:33 / 3-4 / OK pass to Claypool for 10-15 yards
1:09 / 1-10 / QB des run +1
1:02 / 2-9 / very bad pass / should have been an INT
0:56 / 3-9 / very bad pass (under thrown) long to Finke / made Finke slow up and lose his balance

Summary: One good pass, one OK pass, two very bad passes (one should have been an INT), punt


Overall, not as high on BW as I was after the game. Bottom line it's a win and our D looked fantastic. Not sure we're going to have as much luck on 50/50 balls and drive extending penalties the next time we play someone good. Same old question... is it sustainable? We all know he's a great runner, and he did a great job again last week.

At this point, happy to get the win, still concerned about the passing game. Glad we have a few games to tune things up. Hoping BW can get to a point we're he's smother and more accurate. I was frustrated with 2nd half playcalling so I'm not going to put myself through that...

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I loved the moxie he showed on that run, too. He took the hit, fell forward 3 yards past the sticks and flipped the ball forward when he got up.

It was basically the equivalent of a bat flip on the football field.

Sampson had a tweet about BWs body language and how improved it looked... Singled out an example of Gary running him out of bounds, BW smiling back at him and tapping Gary on the back (former HS rival)... Sampson said it looks like BW is having fun this season already.

 

[stlnd01]

He also lost another TD when he lined up incorrectly. He could easily have been over 100 yards with 2 TDs. Big things coming from him this year.

Was it Boykin or the inside receiver who lined up wrong on that play?

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Sampson had a tweet about BWs body language and how improved it looked... Singled out an example of Gary running him out of bounds, BW smiling back at him and tapping Gary on the back (former HS rival)... Sampson said it looks like BW is having fun this season already.

I remember seeing that, he tapped him on the helmet, Gary didn't react, then he kind of tapped his hip with his hand as well, and still no reaction from Gary...BW grinning the whole time.

I agree, he looks like a leader and he's having fun. The guys will surely follow his lead IMO, keep it up BW.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I was going to rewatch the game anyway, but after talking to one of my buddies, focused on only BW's touches in the first half..... He basically said a lot of things "went our way" so I wanted to prove him wrong.... I ended up proving him right depending on how you view things.

First Drive 1Q
14:40 / 2-10 / Inc long right / bad pass behind Claypool who saved INT
14:33 / 3-10 / comp +15ish short left to Claypool with YAC
14:18 / 1-10 / comp mid left to Boykin who was held for 30ish yards / Great pass led recver
14:02 / 1-10 / Inc mid left / bad throw / assume attempt was to Claypool
13:50 / 2-10 / Des QB run +4ish / poked in eye with face mask penalty
Book comes in and hands off to RB for TD

Summary: one great pass and one good, 2 bad passes (one could have been an INT). Aided by penalty

Second Drive 1Q
9:13 / 3-9 / 50-50 ball to Mack in triple coverage / great catch / dangerous throw / missed wide open rcvr over the middle for 1st
8:17 / 2-8 / short pass to Armstrong +2
7:42 / 3-6 / pocket collapse, BW run for 7 and a first down
7:21 / 1-10 / Long 30-70 pass to Finke for TD / could have easily been an INT

Summary: Two long gains (one for TD) by 50/50 or worse passes, one good short pass, one great run for a first

Third Drive 1Q
1:58 / 2-13 / Bad screen completion for short loss/ rcvr had to dive
1:21 / 3-14 / Pocket collapse, good step up, bad pass attempt to an open Boykin

Summary - two bad passes, punt

Forth Drive 2Q
11:25 / 1-10 / QB designed run +6
11:00 / 2-4 / QB des run +2
10:14 / 3-2 / slow getting play in resulting in TO / QB des run +4
8:00 / 3-3 / penalty holding the rcvr / smart play by BW to toss it that way but was locked in all the way
7:25 / 1-15 / QB des run +11
7:04 / 2-4 / short good toss/completion to Finke +6
6:42 / 1-10 / QB (des?) run +3
5:44 / 3-7 / QB run
5:38 / 4 and inches / QB run for 1st down
5:12 / 1 and G / Sack / had open rcvrs
4:36 / 2 and G / Good screen pass to Armstrong
4:05 / 3 and G / Missed an open Boykin in the Endzone / BW hit late and we get a roughing call
Book comes in and hands off for TD

Summary - Long drive aided by 2 D penalties. lots of QB runs. 2 good short passes, took one bad sack, missed open rcvrs a few times.

Fifth Drive
2:23 / 2-7 / short toss to Davis +3
1:33 / 3-4 / OK pass to Claypool for 10-15 yards
1:09 / 1-10 / QB des run +1
1:02 / 2-9 / very bad pass / should have been an INT
0:56 / 3-9 / very bad pass (under thrown) long to Finke / made Finke slow up and lose his balance

Summary: One good pass, one OK pass, two very bad passes (one should have been an INT), punt


Overall, not as high on BW as I was after the game. Bottom line it's a win and our D looked fantastic. Not sure we're going to have as much luck on 50/50 balls and drive extending penalties the next time we play someone good. Same old question... is it sustainable? We all know he's a great runner, and he did a great job again last week.

At this point, happy to get the win, still concerned about the passing game. Glad we have a few games to tune things up. Hoping BW can get to a point we're he's smother and more accurate. I was frustrated with 2nd half playcalling so I'm not going to put myself through that...

"Douglas Farmer
@D_Farmer
Brandon Wimbush went 12-of-22 last night, good for 54.5 percent.
QBs to do that against Michigan with a minimum of 16 pass attempts last regular season?
Trace McSorley of Penn St., 17-of-26, 65.4 percent.
That's it. That's the list."

My rebuttal. (and needless to say, BWs rushes upped his efficiency).
Basically, Brandon did better than all, but one, QB last season (with a more mature, experienced defense).

If you're still worried, I'm sorry.

 

[IrishLion]

If Boykin and Mack catch their dropped basses, BW completed 63% of his passes. That's more than enough to beat anybody ND plays, based on his ability to run the ball as well.

He also completed the biggest throws he needed to make, and it was the first game out.

Of course there's still a chance that we see a regression, but he did what he needed to do, and looked good making throws that he struggled with last year. The biggest one, IMO, being the first 3rd down of the day where he hit Claypool in stride while being pressured.

So things may have "gone our way," but Wimbush also made things happen on third down at a big-time rate, especially against that defense. I think the arrow is clearly pointing up right now.

 

[Irish YJ]

"Douglas Farmer
@D_Farmer
Brandon Wimbush went 12-of-22 last night, good for 54.5 percent.
QBs to do that against Michigan with a minimum of 16 pass attempts last regular season?
Trace McSorley of Penn St., 17-of-26, 65.4 percent.
That's it. That's the list."

My rebuttal. (and needless to say, BWs rushes upped his efficiency).
Basically, Brandon did better than all, but one, QB last season (with a more mature, experienced defense).

If you're still worried, I'm sorry.

I'm just looking at this without being a BW hater or ND homer. No need to be sorry.

And while DF's bit is true, it's a bit misleading. OSU used two QBs. Haskins lit them up and was more accurate, just didn't have 16 attempts. scUM also lost to every ranked B10 team they played. MSt was 11/22 (one shy) and beat them. Wiscy was 9/19. Overall, I've always said the % is not what bothers me. It's the bad throws, locking in, and inconsistency. I can live with the %...

 

[Irish YJ]

If Boykin and Mack catch their dropped basses, BW completed 63% of his passes. That's more than enough to beat anybody ND plays, based on his ability to run the ball as well.

He also completed the biggest throws he needed to make, and it was the first game out.

Of course there's still a chance that we see a regression, but he did what he needed to do, and looked good making throws that he struggled with last year. The biggest one, IMO, being the first 3rd down of the day where he hit Claypool in stride while being pressured.

So things may have "gone our way," but Wimbush also made things happen on third down at a big-time rate, especially against that defense. I think the arrow is clearly pointing up right now.

Agreed in terms of the arrow pointing up. Hoping he can start to make the passing component look a bit easier, and not so 50/50. He's got 3 games in front of him to tune things up.

In terms of Boykin/Mack making their catches, you could also say there were several passes that normally would not have been caught (one for a TD). You always have a drop or two, you don't always have a receiver take away a ball from a defender in front of him, or a receiver making an awesome diving catch in triple coverage while getting popped.

 

[koonja]

If Boykin and Mack catch their dropped basses, BW completed 63% of his passes. That's more than enough to beat anybody ND plays, based on his ability to run the ball as well.

He also completed the biggest throws he needed to make, and it was the first game out.

Of course there's still a chance that we see a regression, but he did what he needed to do, and looked good making throws that he struggled with last year. The biggest one, IMO, being the first 3rd down of the day where he hit Claypool in stride while being pressured.

So things may have "gone our way," but Wimbush also made things happen on third down at a big-time rate, especially against that defense. I think the arrow is clearly pointing up right now.

I think BW played well and had excellent pocket awareness, but I hate this argument, and I see it every year.

What do you consider "good" completion percentage? 60%? 65%? It doesn't matter, pick a number. If every QB adjusted for drops (especially in college), that percentage that we consider "good" would go way up. So 63% wouldn't look so good anymore.

And 2 drops is probably better than average per game for college football, but that's besides the point.

I thought BW looked noticeably more comfortable confident, especially when you consider the opponent, but I don't like the adjusting of % based on drops, because those apply unequivocally to all QBs.

 

[IrishLion]

I think BW played well and had excellent pocket awareness, but I hate this argument.

What do you consider "good" completion percentage? 60%? 65%? It doesn't matter, pick a number.

Well, if every QB adjusted for drops (especially in college), that percentage that we consider "good" would go way up.

And 2 drops is probably better than average per game for college football, but that's besides the point.

For BW, a good completion percentage is 55%. That's good enough to beat anyone on the schedule, when you consider the plays he's going to make with his legs.

He was above that on Saturday, against probably the best defense we'll see all year (with the possible exception of VT).

My point about the drops was that he had a fantastic day against a great defense, and it could have been better.

It also could have been worse, which was kind of the stance that YJ was researching, and what I was countering.

 

[koonja]

For BW, a good completion percentage is 55%. That's good enough to beat anyone on the schedule, when you consider the plays he's going to make with his legs.

He was above that on Saturday, against probably the best defense we'll see all year (with the possible exception of VT).

My point about the drops was that he had a fantastic day against a great defense, and it could have been better.

It also could have been worse, which was kind of the stance that YJ was researching, and what I was countering.

I hear you, and if you consider the opponent, I thought his accuracy was really good. He's not going to throw that many off of his back foot in most games, because he was getting smacked early and often against Michigan. I just had to stand up against the "drops" point because that one always makes me cringe.

I'm much higher on BW than I was going in to that game.

 

[Wild Bill]

IMO, the biggest concern regarding Wimbush, whether he continues to progress or he begins to regress, is whether or not he can stay healthy the rest of the season. He took a beating against Michigan and it didn't break him. That last scoring drive he got sacked by Bush, comes back the next play and runs through the gut for 20, then he shakes off pressure later in the drive and throws a dart to Claypool. Both QBs got slapped around last week - Wimbush played through it and made plays while Patterson got rattled and coughed up the ball when it mattered.

That said, he took too many hits Saturday. None of them knocked him out but you can't get hit like that every week and expect to be injury free and progress as a QB.

 

[Irish YJ]

IMO, the biggest concern regarding Wimbush, whether he continues to progress or he begins to regress, is whether or not he can stay healthy the rest of the season. He took a beating against Michigan and it didn't break him. That last scoring drive he got sacked by Bush, comes back the next play and runs through the gut for 20, then he shakes off pressure later in the drive and throws a dart to Claypool. Both QBs got slapped around last week - Wimbush played through it and made plays while Patterson got rattled and coughed up the ball when it mattered.

That said, he took too many hits Saturday. None of them knocked him out but you can't get hit like that every week and expect to be injury free and progress as a QB.

This is my biggest fear as well. I think BW is our best chance at winning if he can stay at 55% (that was the target I've said several times). The great thing is we have a competent backup(s) if he does get hurt.

In terms of Patterson, he got slapped around as well, but I think the Michigan play calling was pretty bad. He made several great throws when given the opportunity, and think Hairball could have called more plays better suited for his strengths. It will be interesting to see how both QBs do this week. I'd love to see BW work on passing and not run so much the next 2-3 games. I think Patterson will light it up the next two games.

 

[RDU Irish]

I hear you, and if you consider the opponent, I thought his accuracy was really good. He's not going to throw that many off of his back foot in most games, because he was getting smacked early and often against Michigan. I just had to stand up against the "drops" point because that one always makes me cringe.

I'm much higher on BW than I was going in to that game.

Basically where I am at. Most of his worst throws were under pressure, not stepping into it. When flowing he looked much improved. I have more confidence he can turn into a force if he is having fun out there and not thinking so damn much. Curious to see what our offense looks like against a much lesser opponent this weekend. Hopefully we don't go full puss and run only.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

I really hope we can keep this thread going all season.

Long live September 01, 2018.

 

[Irish YJ]

I really hope we can keep this thread going all season.

Long live September 01, 2018.

Absolutely... I'll be cheering for scUM all year except when they play IU... need that SoS bump!!

While I hate the school, I love the drama, and hope that they stay just good enough to keep Hairball, and still lose to ND every time we meet.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Absolutely... I'll be cheering for scUM all year except when they play IU... need that SoS bump!!

While I hate the school, I love the drama, and hope that they stay just good enough to keep Hairball, and still lose to ND every time we meet.

I get it, and this is so hard for me. I hate them, I hate all the skunkbears. That's my least favorite part of the playoff era: SOS really, really matters, so you kind of find yourself torn between "*UCK EM!" and "Actually, they need to win so we look better."

Take fUSC as another example. We really need them to be as good as possible game 12, but I get such excitement when they lose...

 

[IrishLion]

Absolutely... I'll be cheering for scUM all year except when they play IU... need that SoS bump!!

While I hate the school, I love the drama, and hope that they stay just good enough to keep Hairball, and still lose to ND every time we meet.

I never want scUM to win any games, period...

but if they can manage to go 12-1 the rest of the way with a B1G championship to show for it, ND can afford a loss somewhere and we know they'll at least still be rated over one of the Power 5 champs.

 

[OhioIrish31]

Absolutely... I'll be cheering for scUM all year except when they play IU... need that SoS bump!!

While I hate the school, I love the drama, and hope that they stay just good enough to keep Hairball, and still lose to ND every time we meet.

I kind of hope they lose every game going forward. They can't lose enough for me. Also hoping we get our SOS respect from Stanford, USC, VaTech, and Fla State.

 

[Irish YJ]

I get it, and this is so hard for me. I hate them, I hate all the skunkbears. That's my least favorite part of the playoff era: SOS really, really matters, so you kind of find yourself torn between "*UCK EM!" and "Actually, they need to win so we look better."

Take fUSC as another example. We really need them to be as good as possible game 12, but I get such excitement when they lose...

I never want scUM to win any games, period...

but if they can manage to go 12-1 the rest of the way with a B1G championship to show for it, ND can afford a loss somewhere and we know they'll at least still be rated over one of the Power 5 champs.

I kind of hope they lose every game going forward. They can't lose enough for me. Also hoping we get our SOS respect from Stanford, USC, VaTech, and Fla State.

Emotionally, I rejoice every time scUM, U$C, or Stanford loses. I also love it when they look like @ss and the losing translates to poor recruiting... Then when the end of year comes around, I'm always stressing over SoS....

So my self imposed rule for the last 10+ years, has been to cheer for every ND opponent, until ND loses it's second game. Then I cheer for them all to lose....

 

[OhioIrish31]

Emotionally, I rejoice every time scUM, U$C, or Stanford loses. I also love it when they look like @ss and the losing translates to poor recruiting... Then when the end of year comes around, I'm always stressing over SoS....

So my self imposed rule for the last 10+ years, has been to cheer for every ND opponent, until ND loses it's second game. Then I cheer for them all to lose....

That's a good "rule"...I think I will adopt it.

 

[Irish YJ]

That's a good "rule"...I think I will adopt it.

It's a rule for a more mature, logical, and pragmatic Irish fan lol.
I look at this way, teams are gong to win or lose regardless of me cheering for them or not. When they lose, I'm overwhelmed with joy. I just know that I'll pay that back late in the season with stress if we are hanging out with one loss...

If we are undefeated after Stanford, the rest of the year is going to be awesome for us, but very stressful (SoS wise) IMO. @VT (they should be undefeated at the time), will be crazy hype. The rest of the currently ranked opponents could very well have 2 or more losses and unranked by the time we play them.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Emotionally, I rejoice every time scUM, U$C, or Stanford loses. I also love it when they look like @ss and the losing translates to poor recruiting... Then when the end of year comes around, I'm always stressing over SoS....

So my self imposed rule for the last 10+ years, has been to cheer for every ND opponent, until ND loses it's second game. Then I cheer for them all to lose....

Bingo. This is the formula.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

ND has one friend (Navy), one rival (USC), and one enemy (Michigan). I'll happily root for every team on our schedule* to go 12-1, but you just don't root for enemies.

*Having a real hard time rooting for Stanford either. Until they return to mediocrity and stop stealing important recruits from us, they're de facto enemies as well.