Making a Murderer (Spoilers)

Veritate Duce Progredi

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Has anyone else watched/in the process of watching this? This is an incredible story so far and I'm just beginning the 3rd episode.

For those who like to discuss the justice/legal system, this is a great series.

I'll say no more until others chime in on their progress/thoughts.
 

IrishDevil

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It's the most unbelievable thing I have ever watched!! The twists and turns seem almost to crazy to be true ! I can't wait to hear other people's feedback!
 

NDWorld247

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The first episode is available for free on YouTube. I'm going to check it out.
 

greyhammer90

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Have only seen the first two episodes.

As an citizen it makes my blood boil. As an attorney it's baffling.
 

A Pac

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Wife and I just got done with episode 7. Incredible stuff.
 

gkIrish

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One of the best television series I have ever watched. I will let you all finish watching then give you my opinions.
 

BGIF

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Has anyone else watched/in the process of watching this? This is an incredible story so far and I'm just beginning the 3rd episode.

For those who like to discuss the justice/legal system, this is a great series.

I'll say no more until others chime in on their progress/thoughts.


Haven't seen it but read it's supposed to be the next "Obession Show".
 

notredomer23

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For the guys that watched it, do you think Avery actually killed her? It's pretty clear he shouldn't have been convicted, but it is definitely up in there air if he actually did it.
 

GATTACA!

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One of the best television series I have ever watched. I will let you all finish watching then give you my opinions.

Agreed. Im also going to hold off so i don't spoil anything for anyone. Have you ever seen the Jinx? While i agree Making a Murderer is fantastic, it doesn't hold a candle to the Jinx. That is the greatest television series ever IMO.
 

woolybug25

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The documentary was an extreme Steven Avery lean. After doing some research they left out a lot of stuff that happened in court that went against Avery, making his conviction much more baffling.

Steven Avery Prosecutor Ken Kratz Says Netflix Series Omitted Key Evidence : People.com

Kratz was removed as the DA after the case because he was sexting an assault victim from a case he was prosecuting. The shows producers had a pretty damning response.

'Making a Murderer' Filmmakers Fire Back at Prosecutor

Regardless of how anyone feels about Avery, I think reasonable minds should be able to agree that Kratz is human scum.
 

arrowryan

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Kratz was removed as the DA after the case because he was sexting an assault victim from a case he was prosecuting. The shows producers had a pretty damning response.

'Making a Murderer' Filmmakers Fire Back at Prosecutor

Regardless of how anyone feels about Avery, I think reasonable minds should be able to agree that Kratz is human scum.

Agreed. There were many scums and sketchy people in the documentary. Judge Patrick Willis, James Lenk, Andrew Colborn, and Dassey's first lawyer were very questionable people
 

gkIrish

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Agreed. Im also going to hold off so i don't spoil anything for anyone. Have you ever seen the Jinx? While i agree Making a Murderer is fantastic, it doesn't hold a candle to the Jinx. That is the greatest television series ever IMO.

That's next on my list.
 

gkIrish

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I feel like this thread should allow spoilers because there will always be people out there that haven't seen it yet. I'm just going to add a spoiler tag.
 

NDGOLDEN

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Amazing documentary series. I heard that the group anonymous has hacked information that will exploit the police for framing Avery. Idk if it's gonna be true or not but could be interesting if it comes about. Personally I think their innocent but it's tough to say. All in all I feel extremely bad for brenden that he's caught up in this mess innocent or not
 

IRISHbluehen

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So I burned through the whole doc a couple days ago. Thank God I have you guys to talk about this now because no one I know has finished it yet. Couple things that I found curious. (Warning this will be long)

If the events that were supposed to have transpired in the bedroom did happen, her blood/DNA would have to have been found somewhere. Just no way someone whose throat was slit and abdomen pierced could not have left something behind. No way SA or Brendan could have cleaned all that up. If they did, they should have been able to find some evidence of bleach or other cleaning agent in the bed/walls/bedroom floor.

Also, did Kratz change his mind on where she was killed? He states in his closing argument that TH was killed in the garage. Well my argument still stands in that case. There would have been some kind of physical evidence left behind other than a lone bullet fragment left under some junk. You're telling me that this guy meticulously cleaned every drop of blood from that garage but left the bullet that killed her on the floor. Seems completely incomprehensible.

The old blood sample from his prior case was very interesting to me. Their argument that the needle mark in the top had to mean someone took a sample out is not exactly true. I am a medical technologist and deal with blood sample all day, everyday. That needle mark on the top could have come from when the sample was originally collected. Also, they should now be able to perform a test called mass spec-gas chromatography to definitively see whether there was EDTA in any of the blood swabs collected from the RAV4.

Also, the lady from the forensic lab made me rage inside. How can you possibly allow that negative control to be contaminated? This is one of the only pieces of evidence that can definitively place that murdered woman at the crime scene and you decide to walk some trainees through the process with you. I work hospital setting now but have some experience doing DNA extractions. That kind of thing should never, ever happen. Especially with something as important as that.

And the chemist from the FBI. "We didn't find EDTA in the 3 swabs we tested so the other 3 we didn't test most likely don't have EDTA in them either." What? That is the most unscientific thing I have ever heard.

Those are just a few of the things off the top of my head.

Would love to hear your guys' thoughts.
 

NDWorld247

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I binge watched over the weekend. What. The. Fuck. Day by day, I'm losing faith in humanity.

It's the most unbelievable thing I have ever watched!! The twists and turns seem almost to crazy to be true ! I can't wait to hear other people's feedback!

At one point in the series, maybe around episodes 3-5, I actually thought there was a possibility this was not real. I thought maybe it was advertised as a true story but it was really just fiction. I was tempted to google info about it but I didn't want to spoil it in case I was right.

For the guys that watched it, do you think Avery actually killed her? It's pretty clear he shouldn't have been convicted, but it is definitely up in there air if he actually did it.

I don't think he did it. Not impossible, but I don't think he did and agree he never should have been convicted. See below.

If the events that were supposed to have transpired in the bedroom did happen, her blood/DNA would have to have been found somewhere. Just no way someone whose throat was slit and abdomen pierced could not have left something behind. No way SA or Brendan could have cleaned all that up. If they did, they should have been able to find some evidence of bleach or other cleaning agent in the bed/walls/bedroom floor.

Also, did Kratz change his mind on where she was killed? He states in his closing argument that TH was killed in the garage. Well my argument still stands in that case. There would have been some kind of physical evidence left behind other than a lone bullet fragment left under some junk. You're telling me that this guy meticulously cleaned every drop of blood from that garage but left the bullet that killed her on the floor. Seems completely incomprehensible.

This is what does it for me. There's just no way he kills her in that fashion and not a shred of her DNA is found in the bedroom or garage. It's not even found on HER car keys. So, he's smart enough to clean up the DNA (Steven Avery is not a smart man) but leaves her car on his property? It just doesn't make any sense.

I understand we don't see every detail of the case presented in court, but I also thought the prosecution failed to provide a reasonable motive. I thought the defense's motive for a frame job was much stronger than anything the prosecution presented. I just don't see why Avery would kill her.

Also, I wonder if the family of the victim was as convinced as their spokesman, her brother, that Avery committed the crime. I also wonder if they now regret refusing to be interviewed by the filmmakers. I tried to feel sympathy for the brother, and I do because of the fact his sister was murdered, but I also couldn't help but feel some anger towards him every time he appeared on camera.

A few other quick takes:

- The defense attorneys were rockstars. They did a phenomenal job and deserved to win. I was mad that pathetic human of a prosecutor got the W over the defense.
- I signed the change.org petition that's going around. It's almost at 160,000 signatures. Here's the link if you're interested in signing: https://www.change.org/p/president-of-the-united-states-free-steven-avery
- Towards the end of the series, there was a brief mention of incest within the Avery clan. That makes a lot of sense. Brendan Dassey might be one of the dumbest people I've ever seen. His mom isn't far behind. Those phone convos between the two were priceless.
 

gkIrish

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The old blood sample from his prior case was very interesting to me. Their argument that the needle mark in the top had to mean someone took a sample out is not exactly true. I am a medical technologist and deal with blood sample all day, everyday. That needle mark on the top could have come from when the sample was originally collected. Also, they should now be able to perform a test called mass spec-gas chromatography to definitively see whether there was EDTA in any of the blood swabs collected from the RAV4.

My understanding is that particular test tube was supposed to be a preserved tube for future analysis, if needed. The needle mark combined with the fact that the seals on the box containing the tube were broken made it pretty clear to me that there was tampering. Probably the #1 thing that convinced me that this was a frame job.
 

tussin

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Just finished Episode 5 and I'm beginning to think that Avery didn't do it. The Colburn dispatch call about the car really sounds like he found the car and subsequently placed it on the Avery property.
 

BleedBlueGold

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My big take away at the moment is if Avery didn't do it, who did? I don't really believe the cops killed her. The ex-boyfriend seemed very fishy to me. The brother deleted voicemails during a pertinent time frame. The ex-bf search team miraculously finds the Rav4 (and just so happened to be the person he gave the digital camera to). I mean it's pretty clear the cops were hell bent on convicting Avery. But that doesn't necessarily answer who killed her (if you believe the cops didn't do it either....maybe they did, idk).
 

BleedBlueGold

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I read through the links provided and it sounds like Brendan actually confessed (to his mom) that Avery did do it (and that he also molested him).

There are certainly pieces that would suggest Steve did it. But the manner in which it was presented in court make it seem like one giant frame job.

It's possible that Steve did in fact do it, and the cops went to the end of the earth to make sure he didn't get away with it. In doing so, they took it too far and it was obvious what they were doing. Either way, in this scenario, they got their guy (and the right guy). If you believe that to be the case anyways.

I'm still torn (with two episodes remaining).
 
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Henges24

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If he didn't do it, this goes way beyond Avery vs Manitowoc County. I believe the FBI had to be behind part of it too in order to screw up the test samples. The FBI just didn't seem too concerned about the case during the trial, they almost seemed annoyed to be there.

Also, anyone from Wisconsin that can recall this trial at the time it was going on? Curious to know if it was a big deal in Wisconsin or if it was just another case that had a small article in the newspaper.
 

tussin

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My big take away at the moment is if Avery didn't do it, who did? I don't really believe the cops killed her. The ex-boyfriend seemed very fishy to me. The brother deleted voicemails during a pertinent time frame. The ex-bf search team miraculously finds the Rav4 (and just so happened to be the person he gave the digital camera to). I mean it's pretty clear the cops were hell bent on convicting Avery. But that doesn't necessarily answer who killed her (if you believe the cops didn't do it either....maybe they did, idk).

I struggled with the same questions -- but the defense doesn't need to identify the killer, just prove that it wasn't Avery.

In one of the early episodes, the defense lawyer spends time talking about how juries struggle with this because they want to provide the victim's family with closure.
 

BleedBlueGold

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I struggled with the same questions -- but the defense doesn't need to identify the killer, just prove that it wasn't Avery.

In one of the early episodes, the defense lawyer spends time talking about how juries struggle with this because they want to provide the victim's family with closure.

Totally understand. I just meant for my personal closure.
 
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