LSU Postgame

[irishff1014]

So many good things came form this game.

If Zaire were to win the starting job i don't know if i want him running as much as he did yesterday. I know they had a game plan for yesterday and that was part of it.

And we need to get some big time d-line recruits.

I was happy with the offense game plan. And still need to figure out how to get some average play from special teams.

I loved the speech Kelly gave the team on the video at pregame,halftime, and the end of the game.

Folston is a star flat out. Chris Brown had a very nice game.

We looked like a team yesterday. I hope this is something to build on going forward.

 

[Huntr]

I think Chase Hounshell is 40.

 

[Cackalacky]

The one from the near side of the field was pretty conclusive to me. You can see both of his legs up in the space between Jaylon and LSU's Dillon Gordon (85) when the ball breaks the plane. You can't actually see his knee in that instant, but unless the hidden part of his leg broke, bent down to hit the ground, and then sprung back in that instant, there's no way the knee was down.

Agree. It was a TD IMO. The refs called it down and could not overturn it via replay.

 

[wizards8507]

The one from the near side of the field was pretty conclusive to me. You can see both of his legs up in the space between Jaylon and LSU's Dillon Gordon (85) when the ball breaks the plane. You can't actually see his knee in that instant, but unless the hidden part of his leg broke, bent down to hit the ground, and then sprung back in that instant, there's no way the knee was down.

Agree. It was a TD IMO. The refs called it down and could not overturn it via replay.

I definitely agree and believe it was a touchdown. I'm was just illustrating the logic behind not overturning it.

 

[IrishLax]

OK I've been thinking. And this isn't too diminish what the team did yesterday. But there's been a lot of talk about us being the only OOC loss for sec west. Can we really pump or chests... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH GO IRISH! SUCK IT SEC! WE'RE UNDEFEATED THIS YEAR AGAINST THE TOUGHEST CONFERENCE IN THE COUNTRY WOOOOO!!!!!

No worries man, I fixed your post for you. No need to bring reason and logic and a good point into this thread

 

[Dizzyphil]

OK I've been thinking. And this isn't too diminish what the team did yesterday. But there's been a lot of talk about us being the only OOC loss for sec west. Can we really pump or chests about that when the other 364 days of the year we ridicule the sec for their OOC schedule?

Absolutely not..... if the SEC should schedule their OOC with teams like the Irish if they believe themselves to be as High and Mighty as they claim to be. Scheduling FCS schools is a pu$$y way out.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

Looked like one to me. I even yelled it during the play live.

Not sure why you quoted me though. We're not even talking about that play.

Looking at that play I think Riggs could have dove and possibly tripped him up. Shrug

 

[phork]

This is not a hold on Jaylon Smith? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT8Ku2oWG0

Thats a ticky tack call at best, the lineman was on him and the play was over.

We better not hear about that fake field goal. I watched that play and saw the ball hit the ground with several inches of green between the nose of the ball and the goal line. The camera was in perfect position to catch it. The Tigers gambled and lost. Get over it (or Geauxt over it?)

It was a touch down, I can't deny it. The video evidence was not conclusive enough to over turn it.

I think the official position is that there was insufficient evidence to overturn. You can't use simultaneous camera shots to overturn the ruling on the field and there was no SINGLE shot that showed the ball breaking the plane and the knee not down. You couldn't see the knee at all in the only shot of the ball breaking the plane. The ruling on the field would have stood if it had been called the other way, too.

Bingo.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

OK I've been thinking. And this isn't too diminish what the team did yesterday. But there's been a lot of talk about us being the only OOC loss for sec west. Can we really pump or chests about that when the other 364 days of the year we ridicule the sec for their OOC schedule?

Being the SEC West's only OOC loss is meaningful because they played some legitimate OOC teams this year-- 'Bama beat WVU, LSU beat Wisconsin, Ole Miss beat Boise State, Arkansas beat Texas Tech and NIU, Auburn beat KSU, etc.

We criticize SEC scheduling not because their OOC is a joke top-to-bottom (it's clearly not), but because: (1) playing Division III cupcakes prior to major rivalry games is unsporting, and straight up unfair when compared to teams like ND that refuse to do so; and (2) they aren't penalized sufficiently in the Polls/ Playoff Committee for scheduling such games.

I don't see any hypocrisy in being proud of handing the SEC W it's only OOC loss and arguing that they should be embarrassed for scheduling Division III cupcakes.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

All I want to say is...

F yeah Notre Dame won!

 

[NDdomer2]

Oh don't get me wrong Whiskey, I'm proud. Been letting my friends know since game ended.

Arkansas just beat Texas bad the other day. The last place team in SECw.

Side question: Did I see Jay Hayes in crutches a couple times yesterday? Last I heard Kelly was saying we were going to need him in the trenches. What's his story?

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Outstanding job from the head coach on down, but one of the best things I saw all day was post Gatorade bath...Justin Brent being one of the players repeatedly embracing Coach Kelly and celebrating with each other despite it being widely known, and even acknowledged by BK that Brent has been in his dog house. Just goes to show the grasp that BK has on this team and the respect he and his players have for each other despite what some of us as fans try and speculate based on rumor and the little bits and pieces we are actually privy to through the media and word of mouth from those "in touch" with the program.

 

[Guest]

As a school overall, yeah they are tough to get in. For football players? Not so much. Paging Whiskey for some GSR's and degree value.

I will also throw TCU into that mix. Nice seeing them beat the hell out of Ole Miss today.

 

[Veer option]

Shocked as hell ND played as tough as they did considering that abysmal game against USC. Good on the lads.

 

[Guest]

Kelly has maintained a higher floor than any other NDFB coach--including Lou, Ara, Leahy, and Rockne--and he's done it during a period in which it's harder than ever to win at ND. Every coach you mentioned enjoyed major advantages over their competition that ND has since lost.

He's also #1 in the nation for winning % among coaches with 200+ wins, and #3 among coaches with 150+ wins.

It really doesn't matter whether you believe he's elite. The objective statistical evidence strongly implies that he is. Every time you jump into this "debate", it merely reveals your sense of entitlement and how little you understand about the unique challenges facing our coaches these days.



There's little sense in arguing over a concrete definition, since there's so much variation between schedules, conference/ division strength, resources and institutional support. We could set the bar at "Winning multiple titles in the BCS era" and narrow it down to just Saban and Meyer. But there are clearly other elite coaches out there who have never (and likely will never) win a title-- Chip Kelly, Briles, Patterson, etc.

NDFB has been led by some of the greatest coaches in CFB history, and Kelly just managed to accomplish something none of this predecessors was-- winning at least 8 games in each of his first 5 years. That, combined with his impressive record before coming to ND, leads me to believe that Kelly really is elite, and that he could easily meet your concrete definition at a football factory with unlimited resources and no roster management restraints.

Every coach, even the clear elites like Saban and Meyer, has flaws. Kelly's are simply more apparent because he has no margin for error at ND.

Your post is admirable, but your criteria very subjective. Respect your opinion, but I'll have to continue to disagree with BK being an elite coach. Elite is saved for the very best, and he hasn't proven that yet.

Hopefully over time he will, but I simply see no objective measure to support your opinion at this time.

 

[ickythump1225]

For the record I don't really care whether it was a TD for LSU or not, ND was owed a few in the karma department. That FSU call was more egregious than yesterday's call yet it happened. We've finally evened out the ledger a little bit.

 

[Dizzyphil]

For the record I don't really care whether it was a TD for LSU or not, ND was owed a few in the karma department. That FSU call was more egregious than yesterday's call yet it happened. We've finally evened out the ledger a little bit.

Imagine the impact of the 'Final Four' if that flag is not thrown -

Diz

 

[IrishLion]

Your post is admirable, but your criteria very subjective. Respect your opinion, but I'll have to continue to disagree with BK being an elite coach. Elite is saved for the very best, and he hasn't proven that yet.

Hopefully over time he will, but I simply see no objective measure to support your opinion at this time.

Who do you believe to be the very best? Saban, Meyer, who else?

Because I don't think either of those guys would do much better than Kelly's done at ND, both because of the ridiculous situations that have come up the past three or four years, and because those guys would have to play by the same rules as BK.

 

[connor_in]

Supposedly the whole game on youtube....but embedding was disabled

http://youtu.be/JYY4ksasgsk

 

[Grahambo]

Yeah, I agree it was a TD. I even told my wife it'll get overturned but as others have pointed out along with the broadcast, Rod Gilmore I believe, you can't assume, you have to see everything. I understand the frustration on LSU's side but...it also wasn't pass interference against FSU, but I digress.

 

[Luckylucci]

Who do you believe to be the very best? Saban, Meyer, who else?

Because I don't think either of those guys would do much better than Kelly's done at ND, both because of the ridiculous situations that have come up the past three or four years, and because those guys would have to play by the same rules as BK.

Exactly, I think some are missing how much more difficult it has become to win at ND. Think of it like this. We lost our best CB, WR, and DE for the entire season without Kelly having a say in the matter. That would never happen at Bama. Does he dismiss kids of course, but thats on his terms.

 

[connor_in]

I have been visiting some sites and seen the pics and watched the video of the fake field goal at the end of the first half.

I think whatever call would have been made on the field would not have been overturned. Therefore since the call was no good, it stood. A lot of places have people saying he was "clearly" or "easily " in. At best the tip of the ball broke the plane of the goal line. However, you could not overturn the call because no ONE shot ("indisputable evidence") showed both the ball in AND the knee up. Also, I have watched the video so many times, is it just me or does the camera look like it might have been on the half yard line or something, but not on the goal line? If so, even the slight angle might make it appear to have crossed.

Final conclusion, it MAY have been a TD, but on something that close and questionable, I don't think you can claim to be hosed, though I can understand Tiger fans wnating to argue as any team would on a boderline call.

The other thing about people claiming LSU would have won with the different call here is the same I have said for us before...who says all the other play calls would have been the same? The situations would have been different and the therefore the play calls later in the game would have been different. Maybe LSU doesn't throw the long pass to start the second half and get that score or a million other choices get changed. It happened as it did. Actually i was surprised in in some threads on the LSU board the number of people who felt the same as I do and don't just blame the game on that one play.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Exactly, I think some are missing how much more difficult it has become to win at ND. Think of it like this. We lost our best CB, WR, and DE for the entire season without Kelly having a say in the matter. That would never happen at Bama. Does he dismiss kids of course, but thats on his terms.

Last year we lost our starting QB over an academic issue that didn't affect his eligibility. What does 2013 look like with Golson under center instead of Rees? How does 2014 turn out differently with a much more seasoned starting QB?

Golson in 2013 and The Frozen Five are just two prominent examples of the unique obstacles Kelly faces at ND, but they both had a massive impact on how the last two years played out. And in both cases, it is inconceivable that such things would happen at a football factory like OSU or 'Bama. So comparing Kelly with Meyer or Saban is totally apples to oranges.

 

[RDU Irish]

We really needed this win. The momentum it generated will be crucial in helping us hold this recruiting class together.

Kelly is now the only NDFB coach in school history to win at least 8 games during each of his first 5 seasons. And he's done it during a period when it's harder than ever before to win at ND. Spell it with me now: E-L-I-T-E.

Exactly how many coaches had 13 game seasons to build 8 game streaks? It took half the history of college football to get to double digit games. Better comparison might be winning 2/3rds of their games first five seasons. Had he committed to running the ball the minute his defense was on life support I might get in line with elite, as is I will back "very good" and be damn happy we have him. If 2016 looks like 2012 I will upgrade to elite.

 

[RDU Irish]

Last year we lost our starting QB over an academic issue that didn't affect his eligibility. What does 2013 look like with Golson under center instead of Rees? How does 2014 turn out differently with a much more seasoned starting QB?

Golson in 2013 and The Frozen Five are just two prominent examples of the unique obstacles Kelly faces at ND, but they both had a massive impact on how the last two years played out. And in both cases, it is inconceivable that such things would happen at a football factory like OSU or 'Bama. So comparing Kelly with Meyer or Saban is totally apples to oranges.

Probably a lot like 2014. Why would we not believe Golson would get turnover happy and blow some games?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

The read-option looked very good for a trial run after only a few weeks of practicing it. A lot of people chided Zaire for holding it too long, which will be a problem if it continues, but you gotta love his gamesmanship. He WANTED the ball in his hands.

*on 4th and 9 when he lowered his shoulder and you can tell thought "we need this, eff it, I'm getting it," that was all I needed to see to validate his drive/leadership.

 

[ickythump1225]

Probably a lot like 2014. Why would we not believe Golson would get turnover happy and blow some games?

Because he didn't in 2012?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Probably a lot like 2014. Why would we not believe Golson would get turnover happy and blow some games?

Better OL and WRs and TEs. Continuity of development uninterrupted by suspension. Mechanics would be worse due to the loss of Whitfield's tutoring, but he would have made up some of that ground through our coaching staff. Hard to play the "What if?" game, but it's not a stretch to infer that the lost season hurt his development.

 

[RDU Irish]

Or he could have turned the ball over 22 times and forced Rees back into the line up.

Jay Cutler can win some games for you too. He can also proceed to crap the bed after amassing the best talent around him in his career.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Or he could have turned the ball over 22 times and forced Rees back into the line up.

Like I wrote earlier, it's impossible to know. I doubt that would have happened with the offensive talent he would have been surrounded with in 2013, but it's possible.

Regardless, it's not really relevant to what was being discussed. Golson's suspension and the Frozen Five were major setbacks for Kelly that simply wouldn't have happened at any other top tier football program. So comparisons between him and guys like Meyer and Saban (especially within the context of what qualifies as "elite) are misleading if such discrepancies aren't accounted for.