LSU Postgame

[IRISHFAN76]

I know I might get creamed for saying this. But, I've been dissapointed with Corey Robinson since the ASU game, a lot of drops


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He did play most the season with a broken thumb

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Honestly, my favorite part of the game was BK finally playing the best athletes that give his team the best chance to win. Loved seeing Shumate/Redfield at safety, Folston basically getting all of the carries, etc.

The experience this young team got this year along with capping it off against a solid SEC team is a monstrous springboard into '15. I think I say it every year, but next year really should be fun to watch.


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I said this too. BK finally got out of his own way. He quit trying to out smart everyone. He basically called simple plays that allowed his athletes to make a big play. And they did. Procise...how's that for SEC speed?

I've said this numerous times, in college, kids have four years to learn and master a scheme (sometimes less w/ coaching changes) and they do it while taking a serious course load (at ND at least). The coaches that keep it simple, almost always have better "system players" than teams who get over complicated. If BK would just simplify his offense and let his kids play, they'd prove what kind of athletes they are like they did yesterday. I'm not suggesting something so simple that other teams can easily figure it out and stop it. But something that's not so over complicated that it's a toss up if your guys can and will actually execute it correctly, let alone break it for a bigger play. Perfect example is how he started the game w/ Malik. Those were simple basic plays but they were easily executed with little risk. The kids made the plays and eventually scored a TD.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

It was a very close call. Could've gone either way imo. Had they overturned it and ND lost, we'd all be bitching about losing a game on another blown call. You win some, you lose some. The football gods evened the pot yesterday for ND. I'll take it.

This is not a hold on Jaylon Smith? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT8Ku2oWG0

 

[Guest]

So there's only one elite coach in CFB? Not trolling, just curious what your definition is.

Someone who consistently wins 9-10 games or better, is in contention for the natty almost every year, and regularly wins their division. That sounds like a reasonable definition for the world 'elite'.

Now, given the challenges of recruiting at ND, the changes in college football in general (such as more parity across the landscape), and the money involved that promotes cheating or skirting the rules (SEC-style recruiting, for example), then you could say BK is pretty damn good.

He has more obstacles than a lot of coaches do. However, he isn't the only one. Stanford, Miami, Michigan, and other schools also have reasonably tough academic standards while also having high expectations for their college football teams, so ND isn't the only tough sell in the country.

Given the balance, I would say very good but not elite. His main weaknesses are stubbornness, anger management (needs to act more composed as a head coach should), and arrogance.

Now if he gets ND near the 4-team playoffs every other year, then given the program limitations and general parity of the sport, I may call him elite. I don't expect him to win it, but ND is still a national powerhouse program and he should at least have the team in the mix every few years, while winning a high percentages of games in general and not having a lot of 4-5 loss seasons on the resume.

edit: I have no doubt that BK is highly intelligent. From observing him, I think we have similar personality profiles. So I am more critical of his flaws because they are those I recognize in myself and know that I need to work on.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

This is not a hold on Jaylon Smith? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuT8Ku2oWG0

Looked like one to me. I even yelled it during the play live.

Not sure why you quoted me though. We're not even talking about that play.

 

[Guest]

My post-game comments:

1) Malik is ready now. He is not perfect but he looks the part. We won't truly know his flaws (such as keeping the ball too much on runs?) until he plays more, but I am ready for a change from Golson as the FT starter.
2) Golson is still valuable to the program. I would hope he comes back and competes for the starting QB position to a) enhance his draft stock and b) provide ND much needed veteran leadership at the QB position. If Zaire beats him out, which I hope he will, then Golson can still benefit the program and benefit from the extra year in college. Right now he is, at best, a late middle-round draft pick in the NFL due to his height and penchant for turnovers.
3) The offensive line has the chance to be special if everyone comes back. I see two potential All-Americans at T, a solid C, and no glaring weaknesses that cannot be accounted for.
4) Folston didn't have his best game, but he gives the team a legit #1 starter. With McDaniel gone, BK better give GB his chance next year in earnest. He's too talented to bench, and should be brought along as Folston was.
5) The defense will be better next year if everyone returns. It will still be growing pains with lots of younger players getting significant playing time, but I think they can be a top 35 defense or better. I have not given up on BVG because I think his style can work, but it requires discipline and young players don't always have that.
6) The safety problems continue to be concerning. Either we have leadership, or we have pure talent, but generally not both in the same player at the same time.
7) I am not as worried about LB with our recruits and general depth. There is enough mix of talent and leadership I think we are finally ok here.
8) DL scares me if people leave early. Our recruiting this year was 'meh' and in general our DL is not deep if we continue to have early defections to the NFL. BK and staff need to work on upgrading at least one of the DL recruits every year to account for early losses and provide premium player depth. Right now, our DL is average given the mix of youth and veterans. We need more continuity of recruiting and development on the line.

 

[ulukinatme]

Kelly could go with a 2 QB system ala Chris Leak/Teebus, but honestly I think Zaire should remain the starter with Golson coming in for packages like 2 minute drill. Zaire has plenty of zip on his ball and he can actually run the read option well, which none of our previous mobile QBs could do well (Hendrix, Golson, etc). It gives us a running threat and a running game that opens up the pass. It also lets us use our OL correctly to manhandle opponents. I like Zaire's leadership too, I think the team responds better when he's on the field.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

From OFD...

One, the team continually keeps coming back from their backs against the wall and delivers a huge roundhouse to whatever opponent stands in their way. Two, they actually stand up--even when things aren't perfect--and can win big games.

That this rarely if ever happened from the mid-90's until 2010 may not mean much to some people. Tallest midget and all that talk. But damn it if it doesn't mean something significant. A lot of people want to keep chipping away at Brian Kelly and his staff because they aren't perfect. Far too many people were saying and thinking that this staff had lost the team but just when you think everything would fall apart they go into a bowl game and physically beat LSU and give the SEC West their only non-conference loss to date.

Well said IMO

 

[Classic Irish]

College guys beat sec minor league pros-you go college boys-Go Irish!

Exactly!

 

[irishknight35]

Kelly could go with a 2 QB system ala Chris Leak/Teebus, but honestly I think Zaire should remain the starter with Golson coming in for packages like 2 minute drill. Zaire has plenty of zip on his ball and he can actually run the read option well, which none of our previous mobile QBs could do well (Hendrix, Golson, etc). It gives us a running threat and a running game that opens up the pass. It also lets us use our OL correctly to manhandle opponents. I like Zaire's leadership too, I think the team responds better when he's on the field.

I find this to be particularly important. Comments from Martin and McGlintchey after the game speak volumes about how this O-Line as a unit wants to play football. Game plan was to get the run going early and often and then open up just a little with some passes. The O-Line and TEs allowed this team to run the ball with authority and settled in nicely on pass protection. This O-Line had fun yesterday and I loved it.

Now if Golson transfers I certainly wouldn't blame him for wanting another opportunity to be the guy but he needs to remember with Malik being a QB that runs just as much as he passes injuries are more likely. I believe with both being able to run the same offense just in different ways makes them both very valuable to making a playoff run in '15. IMO Golson is told this/knows this too and stays to finish the job.

 

[Classic Irish]

So, all my LSU buddies are throwing that botched fake field goal call as the reason they lost. Or at least they should have won any way. I have started getting in texts with pics of the kickers knee above the ground and the ball over the goalline. Must have gotten 25 texts last night. Late last night. And this morning.

Sour grapes. That play happened in the first half. They had an entire second half to overcome that. And for a time they did: they took the lead in the second half but couldn't hang on to it. Cry babies.

 

[Armyirish47]

1. Reading too much into a bowl game is dangerous, but the tough streak exhibited by everybody, especially the o line is encouraging. We finally have the players that fit our style, and the depth to practice it consistently.
2. Lots of talk about Coach Kelly finally getting it on play calling, but the only game we got out coached this year was USC. Quibble with the run pass balance, but the production, and more importantly, the effort were consistent. Turnovers and missed kicks fluctuate a tremendous amount year to year, but weekly motivation is all coaching.
3. If Golson doesn't win the starting job outright in the spring he should transfer. He will already have a degree and the NFLs recommendations, and there are too many high profile opportunities around the country for a proven, possibly Heisman caliber quarterback on a one year rental.
4. Next year is going to be a lot of fun, bring on Texas!

 

[Guest]

I find this to be particularly important. Comments from Martin and McGlintchey after the game speak volumes about how this O-Line as a unit wants to play football. Game plan was to get the run going early and often and then open up just a little with some passes. The O-Line and TEs allowed this team to run the ball with authority and settled in nicely on pass protection. This O-Line had fun yesterday and I loved it.

Now if Golson transfers I certainly wouldn't blame him for wanting another opportunity to be the guy but he needs to remember with Malik being a QB that runs just as much as he passes injuries are more likely. I believe with both being able to run the same offense just in different ways makes them both very valuable to making a playoff run in '15. IMO Golson is told this/knows this too and stays to finish the job.

I agree on emphasizing the run over the pass, especially in college where QBs don't stay 10 years as they might in the pros. The run emphasis gives young QBs time to develop on the field, where the reliance on passing requires a seasoned, veteran QB to put the offense on his shoulders constantly. Golson probably had too much pressure put on him too early (his second full year of playing), and you don't want to do the same thing with Zaire.

 

[connor_in]

Someone who consistently wins 9-10 games or better, is in contention for the natty almost every year, and regularly wins their division. That sounds like a reasonable definition for the world 'elite'.

Now, given the challenges of recruiting at ND, the changes in college football in general (such as more parity across the landscape), and the money involved that promotes cheating or skirting the rules (SEC-style recruiting, for example), then you could say BK is pretty damn good.

He has more obstacles than a lot of coaches do. However, he isn't the only one. Stanford, Miami, Michigan, and other schools also have reasonably tough academic standards while also having high expectations for their college football teams, so ND isn't the only tough sell in the country.

Given the balance, I would say very good but not elite. His main weaknesses are stubbornness, anger management (needs to act more composed as a head coach should), and arrogance.

Now if he gets ND near the 4-team playoffs every other year, then given the program limitations and general parity of the sport, I may call him elite. I don't expect him to win it, but ND is still a national powerhouse program and he should at least have the team in the mix every few years, while winning a high percentages of games in general and not having a lot of 4-5 loss seasons on the resume.

edit: I have no doubt that BK is highly intelligent. From observing him, I think we have similar personality profiles. So I am more critical of his flaws because they are those I recognize in myself and know that I need to work on.

I LOL'ed

 

[Guest]

I LOL'ed

They aren't ND or Stanford, but check their admission requirements. They are pretty stout.

 

[BeauBenken]

Best part about this win?

It will silence the whiny ass people for a bit. They drive me completely insane.

You know who you are.

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RgopVOg2ifk" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

I was seriously listening to this song right when I came across your post. Odd.

 

[kmoose]

<script height="381px" width="672px" src="http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.js#ec=t1dHNqcjprpGqDWMiAg-yzeQNrbVQFJi&pbid=5e83fc845d86487e88b6953600eaff54"></script>


The last question, and answer, are GREAT!!

 

[GoldenDomer]

Speaking of elite, after watching his performance, Malik will be there in a year or two.

My biggest takeaways were:

1. No Turnovers. Finally.
2. We matched their physicality. I was surprised and impressed by our toughness.
3. MALIK. He gave the team a spark, everyone played their best game. Also, the emotion after the game was very cool to see.

Also like the "tough gentleman" thing BK spoke about after the game. I think we always had that, but have played too much like gentleman and not enough toughness. That changed yesterday.

None of this matters unless this continues. I hope we use it as a stepping stone and this is a wake up call that we should/can compete with anyone.

 

[GowerND11]

They aren't ND or Stanford, but check their admission requirements. They are pretty stout.

As a school overall, yeah they are tough to get in. For football players? Not so much. Paging Whiskey for some GSR's and degree value.

 

[Black Irish]

We better not hear about that fake field goal. I watched that play and saw the ball hit the ground with several inches of green between the nose of the ball and the goal line. The camera was in perfect position to catch it. The Tigers gambled and lost. Get over it (or Geauxt over it?)

 

[Whiskeyjack]

ELITE does not lose five games every year but one.

In fewer games, LOU was much more elite. So was Ara. So was Leahy. Certainly Rockne.

Kelly finally got out the way for most of the game and actually called a game that gave the D the relief it needed. Too bad he never thought about it, you know, weeks ago?

Far from elite. Good, yes. Great, at times. Elite? Not Even Close.

Kelly has maintained a higher floor than any other NDFB coach--including Lou, Ara, Leahy, and Rockne--and he's done it during a period in which it's harder than ever to win at ND. Every coach you mentioned enjoyed major advantages over their competition that ND has since lost.

He's also #1 in the nation for winning % among coaches with 200+ wins, and #3 among coaches with 150+ wins.

It really doesn't matter whether you believe he's elite. The objective statistical evidence strongly implies that he is. Every time you jump into this "debate", it merely reveals your sense of entitlement and how little you understand about the unique challenges facing our coaches these days.

Someone who consistently wins 9-10 games or better, is in contention for the natty almost every year, and regularly wins their division. That sounds like a reasonable definition for the world 'elite'.

There's little sense in arguing over a concrete definition, since there's so much variation between schedules, conference/ division strength, resources and institutional support. We could set the bar at "Winning multiple titles in the BCS era" and narrow it down to just Saban and Meyer. But there are clearly other elite coaches out there who have never (and likely will never) win a title-- Chip Kelly, Briles, Patterson, etc.

NDFB has been led by some of the greatest coaches in CFB history, and Kelly just managed to accomplish something none of this predecessors was-- winning at least 8 games in each of his first 5 years. That, combined with his impressive record before coming to ND, leads me to believe that Kelly really is elite, and that he could easily meet your concrete definition at a football factory with unlimited resources and no roster management restraints.

Every coach, even the clear elites like Saban and Meyer, has flaws. Kelly's are simply more apparent because he has no margin for error at ND.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

As a school overall, yeah they are tough to get in. For football players? Not so much. Paging Whiskey for some GSR's and degree value.

Stanford's admission requirements are actually more rigorous than ours. Though once you're in, SU hands you a cushy course load, shields you from discipline, and juices you regularly to protect you from injury. So they deserve some credit for recruiting the right way, but beyond that, they're as shady as anyone else.

As for Miami, their GSR figures are good, but their degree value is terrible. And I can't recall them turning away a single recruit who at least cleared the NCAA's very modest bar for eligibility. Given their history (Hi, Nevin Shapiro!), I'm not inclined to give them any credit for doing things the right way.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

Has there been any official statement on the fake field goal call? One element the broadcasters didn't remark upon was that the runner appeared to lose the handle on the ball when he got hit so maybe he didn't show sufficient possession?

I do think it was a TD.

 

[Classic Irish]

Stanford's admission requirements are actually more rigorous than ours. Though once you're in, SU hands you a cushy course load, shields you from discipline, and juices you regularly to protect you from injury. So they deserve some credit for recruiting the right way, but beyond that, they're as shady as anyone else.

I've suspected this going back to when Harbaugh was there. Any evidence this is true?

 

[Luckylucci]

Has there been any official statement on the fake field goal call? One element the broadcasters didn't remark upon was that the runner appeared to lose the handle on the ball when he got hit so maybe he didn't show sufficient possession?

I do think it was a TD.

Lets just say it is a TD, it definitely changes the complexity of the game. However, there was 2 Qtrs. of football left. Thats a lot of time for us to comeback and change the outcome. Maybe we start to throw the ball down field more. Maybe we try some trick plays or get more gutsy. We didn't because we didn't have to. Lets say LSU hits that FG towards the end of the game, we probably try for the end zone with 1:30 in the 4th instead of playing for the FG. This is nothing similar to an end of the game call where there is no time for the losing team to do anything. Here's looking at you FSU

 

[wizards8507]

Has there been any official statement on the fake field goal call? One element the broadcasters didn't remark upon was that the runner appeared to lose the handle on the ball when he got hit so maybe he didn't show sufficient possession?

I do think it was a TD.

I think the official position is that there was insufficient evidence to overturn. You can't use simultaneous camera shots to overturn the ruling on the field and there was no SINGLE shot that showed the ball breaking the plane and the knee not down. You couldn't see the knee at all in the only shot of the ball breaking the plane. The ruling on the field would have stood if it had been called the other way, too.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I think the official position is that there was insufficient evidence to overturn. You can't use simultaneous camera shots to overturn the ruling on the field and there was no SINGLE shot that showed the ball breaking the plane and the knee not down. You couldn't see the knee at all in the only shot of the ball breaking the plane. The ruling on the field would have stood if it had been called the other way, too.

If you can't use multiple angles, it was right not to overturn it. That said, I'm about 99% sure it was a TD, based on multiple angles.

 

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

If you can't use multiple angles, it was right not to overturn it. That said, I'm about 99% sure it was a TD, based on multiple angles.

I'm about 90% sure you can use multiple angles in the NFL but I honestly have no idea how college reviews differ (if at all).

 

[NDdomer2]

OK I've been thinking. And this isn't too diminish what the team did yesterday. But there's been a lot of talk about us being the only OOC loss for sec west. Can we really pump or chests about that when the other 364 days of the year we ridicule the sec for their OOC schedule?

 

[NOLAIrish]

I think the official position is that there was insufficient evidence to overturn. You can't use simultaneous camera shots to overturn the ruling on the field and there was no SINGLE shot that showed the ball breaking the plane and the knee not down. You couldn't see the knee at all in the only shot of the ball breaking the plane. The ruling on the field would have stood if it had been called the other way, too.

The one from the near side of the field was pretty conclusive to me. You can see both of his legs up in the space between Jaylon and LSU's Dillon Gordon (85) when the ball breaks the plane. You can't actually see his knee in that instant, but unless the hidden part of his leg broke, bent down to hit the ground, and then sprung back in that instant, there's no way the knee was down.