Johnny Football

[tko]

this manziel suspension is still getting me... pryor sells apparel for tattoos and the school and players get the book thrown at them, aj green sells jersey and he gets multiple games... manziel takes cash on multiple occasions for autograph and he gets 2 quarters

 

[ryno 24]

Better lawyer

 

[NDWorld247]

this manziel suspension is still getting me... pryor sells apparel for tattoos and the school and players get the book thrown at them, aj green sells jersey and he gets multiple games... manziel takes cash on multiple occasions for autograph and he gets 2 quarters

I share your disdain for the punishment Manziel received, but there's one key difference between OSU/AJ Green and the Manziel case --- proof. The OSU penalties were more about the cover up and "lack of institutional control" than violating the rules associated with selling your apparel and getting free tattoos, and there was proof Green violated the rules by selling his jersey. There simply wasn't a paper trail to prove the allegations against Manziel.

 

[wizards8507]

I share your disdain for the punishment Manziel received, but there's one key difference between OSU/AJ Green and the Manziel case --- proof. The OSU penalties were more about the cover up and "lack of institutional control" than violating the rules associated with selling your apparel and getting free tattoos, and there was proof Green violated the rules by selling his jersey. There simply wasn't a paper trail to prove the allegations against Manziel.

The NCAA doesn't need hard proof. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" applies to criminal law but has nothing to do with an investigation of an organization in which TAMU is voluntarily a member. You don't need "proof" of steriod use to keep someone out of a hall of fame, for example. The gatekeepers just say to themselves "yeah, he probably did it," and the guy is out. A Country Club can revoke your membership because they *think* you're *probably* a murderer. They don't need you to be convicted by judge and jury first.

 

[NDWorld247]

The NCAA doesn't need hard proof. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" applies to criminal law but has nothing to do with an investigation of an organization in which TAMU is voluntarily a member. You don't need "proof" of steriod use to keep someone out of a hall of fame, for example. The gatekeepers just say to themselves "yeah, he probably did it," and the guy is out. A Country Club can revoke your membership because they *think* you're *probably* a murderer. They don't need you to be convicted by judge and jury first.

I understand that 100% and have written as much in this thread. But the NCAA can't hammer one of their own members because they "think" he "probably did it". All they needed to do was find something (e.g. video of Manziel talking about money) and they could have hammered him and ruined A&M's season. But they didn't. They didn't find anything to support the allegations.

I'm not trying to defend the NCAA. They probably gave 50% effort and didn't dig as much as they needed to. They were happy to slap him on the wrist, sweep it under the rug and move on. My point was simply that comparing this case to the others you mentioned where there was clear proof that rules were violated, is off base.

 

[RDU Irish]

Bilas on Mike and Mike this morning made me want to puke. Golic is not equipped to battle anyones wits, let alone a bright guy like Bilas. However, Bilas was so intellectually dishonest when he talked about ZERO consideration for athletes and how they are completely taken advantage of. Golic blurted once they get $250,000 of consideration and Bilas quickly pooh-poohed it. Most college athletes on scholarship get a good deal. At $250k that is $60k per year job. More than that when you consider after tax benefits. That is not nothing. Discuss the socialistic nature of all 85 schollies being treated equally if you want but to claim the system as a whole takes advantage of athletes is dishonest.

They (athletes) know the deal and the rules, they could just as easily forego college and work out for three years before going pro. They use colleges to audition for the pros during a period in which they are unable to qualify for the show. Those auditions put them in position for multi million dollar contracts as 21 year old men. If they get to audition at a more reputable program, their odds of making the show are that much better (just look at the NFL pedigree of ND vs Temple). In the mean time they can choose to party like rock stars and live for free at most schools, or apply themselves and get a top notch education at a place like Stanford or Notre Dame, places in which THOUSANDS of (often better) students are turned away annually.

Bilas entire point discounts the concept of STUDENT-athlete to ZERO. Also does not recognize the value of access to a prime time stage and system to prepare you for the NFL. Also does not recognize the average NFL career is 3 years and even super stars wash out or get hurt.

Now talk about the distraction of Bilas argument for allowing kids to contract out their services and image. Every have a contract dispute? Bit of a distraction and minute legal details can be a bitch. These kids can't handle it and would need agents.

I could get behind some reasonable approaches - say you get $5 for every jersey sold with your name on it (obvious problem for ND with no names and tons of historically significant players under the same numbers). Or you can get paid set amounts for participating in off season coaching clinics or something.

Or maybe they can just delay some gratification, love and promote their sport and school while they bust their hump to improve their draft stock.

 

[Irish#1]

this manziel suspension is still getting me... pryor sells apparel for tattoos and the school and players get the book thrown at them, aj green sells jersey and he gets multiple games... manziel takes cash on multiple occasions for autograph and he gets 2 quarters

Dez Bryant has dinner with an agent and gets suspended for a year.

 

[BobD]

Johnny Halftime

 

[PLACforever]

Full speed ahead for Texas A&M Aggies' Johnny Manziel ... after a half - ESPN

Reading some of the comments makes me wish for a plague.
Looking at you John Fernald and Stan Anvik.

 

[NDohio]

Bilas on Mike and Mike this morning made me want to puke. Golic is not equipped to battle anyones wits, let alone a bright guy like Bilas. However, Bilas was so intellectually dishonest when he talked about ZERO consideration for athletes and how they are completely taken advantage of. Golic blurted once they get $250,000 of consideration and Bilas quickly pooh-poohed it. Most college athletes on scholarship get a good deal. At $250k that is $60k per year job. More than that when you consider after tax benefits. That is not nothing. Discuss the socialistic nature of all 85 schollies being treated equally if you want but to claim the system as a whole takes advantage of athletes is dishonest.

They (athletes) know the deal and the rules, they could just as easily forego college and work out for three years before going pro. They use colleges to audition for the pros during a period in which they are unable to qualify for the show. Those auditions put them in position for multi million dollar contracts as 21 year old men. If they get to audition at a more reputable program, their odds of making the show are that much better (just look at the NFL pedigree of ND vs Temple). In the mean time they can choose to party like rock stars and live for free at most schools, or apply themselves and get a top notch education at a place like Stanford or Notre Dame, places in which THOUSANDS of (often better) students are turned away annually.

Bilas entire point discounts the concept of STUDENT-athlete to ZERO. Also does not recognize the value of access to a prime time stage and system to prepare you for the NFL. Also does not recognize the average NFL career is 3 years and even super stars wash out or get hurt.

Now talk about the distraction of Bilas argument for allowing kids to contract out their services and image. Every have a contract dispute? Bit of a distraction and minute legal details can be a bitch. These kids can't handle it and would need agents.

I could get behind some reasonable approaches - say you get $5 for every jersey sold with your name on it (obvious problem for ND with no names and tons of historically significant players under the same numbers). Or you can get paid set amounts for participating in off season coaching clinics or something.

Or maybe they can just delay some gratification, love and promote their sport and school while they bust their hump to improve their draft stock.

YES!! I am a huge Bilas fan when he is breaking down a basketball game. I hate when he gets on his "pay the college athletes, they are being taken advantage" of kick.

 

[ACamp1900]

Full speed ahead for Texas A&M Aggies' Johnny Manziel ... after a half - ESPN

Reading some of the comments makes me wish for a plague.
Looking at you John Fernald and Stan Anvik.

Very mild actually... yesterday some comment section for a cfb piece had SEC peps coming together in total agreement that ND would be lucky to go 4-8 with an SEC schedule and that they were not anywhere near one of the top 25 teams in the country last year... fun times.

 

[greyhammer90]

Very mild actually... yesterday some comment section for a cfb piece had SEC peps coming together in total agreement that ND would be lucky to go 4-8 with an SEC schedule and that they were not anywhere near one of the top 25 teams in the country last year... fun times.

Lol I can tell that's been bothering you. You can't take stuff like that seriously. There will always be people who will say that stuff. As soon as you read "not in the Top 25" on a 12-0 team feel free to laugh at the troll. They don't even take themselves seriously. If we had gone 13-0 some people would still say that we were lucky to dodge Oregon.

It's what's great (just kidding, annoying) about CFB.

 

[T Town Tommy]

The NCAA doesn't need hard proof. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" applies to criminal law but has nothing to do with an investigation of an organization in which TAMU is voluntarily a member. You don't need "proof" of steriod use to keep someone out of a hall of fame, for example. The gatekeepers just say to themselves "yeah, he probably did it," and the guy is out. A Country Club can revoke your membership because they *think* you're *probably* a murderer. They don't need you to be convicted by judge and jury first.

The NCAA needs "clear and convincing" evidence that JF accepted money for the autographs. Without the broker's being willing to come forward and state as such, the NCAA hands were essentially tied. Without being able to compel testimony in an investigation, there is little the NCAA can do.

Did JF sign and get paid for it? I think we all could say that he most likely did. Is he a dirtbag if he did? Yes. But can it be proven with "clear and convincing" evidence? No. That's why he is playing. And when A&M goes 9-3 they can blame all the distractions on whoever they want... namely JF himself.

 

[phork]

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[phork]

The NCAA doesn't need hard proof. "Beyond a reasonable doubt" applies to criminal law but has nothing to do with an investigation of an organization in which TAMU is voluntarily a member. You don't need "proof" of steriod use to keep someone out of a hall of fame, for example. The gatekeepers just say to themselves "yeah, he probably did it," and the guy is out. A Country Club can revoke your membership because they *think* you're *probably* a murderer. They don't need you to be convicted by judge and jury first.

Yah but when Johnny Moneybags lawyers are in your face ready to drop a lawsuit when you try to ban him on no evidence, good luck.

 

[ACamp1900]

Lol I can tell that's been bothering you. You can't take stuff like that seriously. There will always be people who will say that stuff. As soon as you read "not in the Top 25" on a 12-0 team feel free to laugh at the troll. They don't even take themselves seriously. If we had gone 13-0 some people would still say that we were lucky to dodge Oregon.

It's what's great (just kidding, annoying) about CFB.

It didn't really bother me... I just remembering thinking how cra-cra it was that so many agreed on it... and compared that to this one....

 

[Circa]

I'm pretty sure that no one was handing Pat Dillingham envelopes with cash in them.

True on that note! Good point!

 

[Irish#1]

And today, Johnny Me got hit with an unsportsmanlike for taunting. With everything that has happened if he had a shred of common sense wouldn't have done that. Those who are in his corner should be embarrassed.

 

[NDinFL]

And today, Johnny Me got hit with an unsportsmanlike for taunting. With everything that has happened if he had a shred of common sense wouldn't have done that. Those who are in his corner should be embarrassed.

He looked like a total jackass today.

Every single play he was rubbing his fingers together like he was counting money. This kid is a flat out punk.

Yo, Trailer Town Tommy, would you please tell the Tide to crush this insect?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Such a punk. I will be rooting hard for Bama in two weeks.

 

[CanadianIrishFan306]

Never cared much for him but now I realize he is just a douchebag.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

My hindsight guess is his dumb a$$ said something like "don't write a check you a$$ can't cash," and made the autograph gesture. Apparently the money gesture he was making is something he did last year too, but that kid obviously doesn't have a filter, or really give a crap what anyone thinks. He's a mental midget of the highest degree.

 

[LoveThee]

I think its dumb of him to do this and bad for his image, but in a way I totally love that he is egging on all this hate and just doesn't seem to care

 

[phork]

He is a douchebag extreme and it absolutely sucks that the NCAA is a balless wonder.

 

[Junkhead]

I think its dumb of him to do this and bad for his image, but in a way I totally love that he is egging on all this hate and just doesn't seem to care

Please don't condone his douchebaggery. I will be rooting for Alabama to roll him. I've never rooted for Alabama, ever.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

Please don't condone his douchebaggery. I will be rooting for Alabama to roll him. I've never rooted for Alabama, ever.

Unfortunately, after watching Bama today, I don't think there is a way that Bama curb stomps Aggie on the road. I went from thinking this was 35-17 Bama to now thinking its 38-21 Aggie. If not for an insane day on special teams, it was a pretty subpar day for the champs.

 

[Kak7304]

Sometimes I think Tate Forcier went back to high school, bulked up, and changed his name to Johnny Manziel.

 

[magogian]

Doing his best to become the villain of college football.

Seriously, he acts like such a little b****. Some SEC defensive player is going to break him in half. And everyone will cheer.

 

[Junkhead]

I imagine the former Heisman winners are rolling their eyes at his antics.

 

[phork]

Gonna change the locks on the Heisman House.