Jim Harbaugh

[ickythump1225]

In a three week stretch last year they beat:

#15 Wisconsin 38-13
@ 24 MSU 21-7
#14 Penn State 42-7

That was a pretty good run.

This thread has gone off the rails. People are starting to talk like Harbaugh has the career arc of Lane Kiffin or something.

 

[IrishLax]

A defense and team that was so LOADED it had 8 losing seasons in the last 9 years (the non losing season being an 8-8 mark) and had started the year 0-5 in 2010 finishing the year 6-10. "Limited success" being 13-3 his first team, losing by a FG in OT to the eventual SB champs in the NFCCG, losing by 3 in the Super Bowl the next year, and going down to the wire in the NFCCG the very next year against the clearly better Seahawks on the road. He was a few bad breaks away from winning a SB and appearing in 3 straight SBs. Also who can forget his QBs during this time were Alex Smith and Kaepernick. I guess that's "limited" in the sense that it wasn't a long Belichek-esque run.

I think hatred of Michigan and Harbaugh makes our fan base compelled to make him out to be Lane Kiffin or something. He's not.

Yes, Alex Smith who signed large deals in KC and Washington after getting benched for Kaepernick.... because Kaepernick was even better. And all that losing is what allowed them to load up the defense.

He took over for a person -- Mike Singletary -- that was so comically unprepared to be a head coach that he was squandering elite talent to the tune of a slightly below .500 record over the past three seasons. That was the primary reason for the mirage that was Harbaugh being a genius.

That '11 49ers team had nine pro-bowlers on it and five first team All-Pros. They had four All-Pros on defense... that is an almost unheard of level of talent. Once that edge started disappearing, the team fell off a cliff and he was canned because he is an awful person with a psychotic personality.

A coach who lasts 4 years in the NFL and doesn't win a Super Bowl is not a "very successful" coach. The number one way to measure success in the NFL is winning over a long tenure - Andy Reid, Mike Tomlin, Pete Carroll, Sean Payton, etc. If you're a ten year NFL coach with 5+ playoff appearances that means you were "successful". The second way is rings. He did neither. At best, he is a Tier C NFL coach.

 

[greyhammer90]

Just browsing the Mgoblog boards.. Fun fact. In 2018 Harballz signed 0 Dlinemen.

I'm now surprised the McGreggor outcome was ever in question. He's going to be an immediate starter, even if he ends up being overrated.

 

[ThePiombino]

I don't think what he did at Stanford was a mirage at all. "Anyone could do it" then how come literally no one else since like the days of Pop Warner had won consistently at Stanford then?

ANDREW. LUCK.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[greyhammer90]

I mean the whole "Harbaugh is a bad coach" thing is fun and all, but he's taken a bad Michigan program and has gone 10-3 three times, and 8-4 once in 4 years. This might be the beginning of his backslide into mediocrity, but he's definitely been a net positive for the direction of the program thus far. I doubt very seriously that he's going to be looked back at as being "part of the problem" by Michigan fans in 7 years, though I certainly wouldn't mind being wrong about that...

 

[IrishLion]

I don't think what he did at Stanford was a mirage at all. "Anyone could do it" then how come literally no one else since like the days of Pop Warner had won consistently at Stanford then? How come no one else did it? Shaw has just followed the blueprint that Harbaugh laid out and is a much better coach than I thought he would be.

It was a 'mirage' in that he wasn't the primary driver of getting Stanford so high above its traditional ceiling... Andrew Luck was. Had Luck not chosen Stanford, Harbaugh's pro-style system would have had them as a perennial 8-4 team. And I call it a 'mirage' because the job made him look like an elite coach, when hindsight tells us that it was a combination of several things, none of which point to Harbaugh being in the 'elite' tier of coaching, even though that's how he gets paid.

And I meant "anyone" can install a system that intends to shorten games and use the resources at their disposal. Harbaugh did a good job of building his roster at Stanford to play man-ball, which meant he used a limited recruiting pool to recruit big strong dudes and then had them take steroids. It was a big transformation for Stanford, but not something only Harbaugh could have accomplished.

I mean the whole "Harbaugh is a bad coach" thing is fun and all, but he's taken a bad Michigan program and has gone 10-3 three times, and 8-4 once in 4 years. This might be the beginning of his backslide into mediocrity, but he's definitely been a net positive for the direction of the program thus far. I doubt very seriously that he's going to be looked back at as being "part of the problem" by Michigan fans in 7 years, though I certainly wouldn't mind being wrong about that...

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, for the record.

Just that he's wildly, WILDLY overpaid for what he's accomplished as a coach. He can thank Andrew Luck for his salary, basically.

 

[greyhammer90]

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, for the record.

Just that he's wildly, WILDLY overpaid for what he's accomplished as a coach. He can thank Andrew Luck for his salary, basically.

No I get it, he's a coach with a "but" for every positive.

He's a good coach, but he's overpaid.
His defenses are routinely great, but he's not involved on that side of the ball.
He's a QB whisperer, but he's been 0-15 since Luck.
He's a great recruiter, but it's hard to tell if that's going to fade as excitement dies down.
He's already taken Michigan to a higher level of competitiveness, but his ceiling appears to be top 10 not top 5.
He's the best coach Michigan can get, but he's the best coach Michigan can get?

 

[RDU Irish]

I'm so pissed we didn't play them before Wisconsin. 10.5 was the season win o/u in Vegas - wish I had only bet that under but over 9 for ND seemed equally easy money. I have never understood this train of thought they would be better this year than last - they lost so much on defense and Shea Butters is good, not GREAT.

LOL - Muck Fichigan.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'm so pissed we didn't play them before Wisconsin. 10.5 was the season win o/u in Vegas - wish I had only bet that under but over 9 for ND seemed equally easy money. I have never understood this train of thought they would be better this year than last - they lost so much on defense and Shea Butters is good, not GREAT.

LOL - Muck Fichigan.

Hell, you want another slant?? Wisconsin finally woke them the hell up and they now know they have to sling it. They moved the ball pretty well at the end and I'm sure Wisky wasn't too interested in 3 and outting them at that point but still, sometimes a game like that is exactly what it takes to have light bulb moment. Who knows...

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not saying he's a bad coach, for the record.

Just that he's wildly, WILDLY overpaid for what he's accomplished as a coach. He can thank Andrew Luck for his salary, basically.

This. If he was making ~$5mil a year and wasn't hyped to the extent he was then I'd have no issue. My opinion is about Harbaugh (the myth) vs Harbaugh (the coach). I have never seen a coach get paid more to do less with elite talent. I have never seen a middle-of-the-pack coach get puff piece after puff piece on every national network.

He's a completely serviceable head coach, but the valuation many have of his competency is completely divorced from reality. Case in point, this is a real article that was really printed based on real opinions by real analysts -- Harbaugh is the best coach in college football

"People say this is just hyperbole, (but) this is a true statement when you look at the record…. Jim Harbaugh is the best football coach right now in college football," Klatt said on "The Audible" podcast with Fox Sports writers Stewart Mandel and Bruce Feldman. "Because he's the only guy that has had success at both levels. No other guy can say that right. Urban (Meyer) can't say that because he never went. Nick Saban can't, Steve Spurrier can't say that, Bobby Petrino can't say that. He's the guy. Everywhere he's been they've won.

"There's a lot of things that you could point to (why he thrives): His schematic versatility in the run game, his ability to motivate, his ability as an offensive guy to delegate time in order to have a great defense," Klatt said. "Put all of that in the pot, what is the one constant is that our sport is a violent sport played by violent men and not many teams play it violently anymore. Jim Harbaugh's teams play it physically and violent and that's what I think allows them to break the will of their opponent more often than not. Even when they're outmatched and outmanned, they're able to go out there and play so physical and beat them down with plays like power, pulling the guard, down, down and here comes a big downhill running back.

"I don't care how many stars you have attached to your name, as a linebacker, you get annoyed having to deal with that, and that's ultimately what returned them to power at Stanford, what made them so good in the NFL and ultimately what he's going to do at Michigan. He's going to return them to a physical powerhouse that every team is going to have to deal with when they play them."

It's just patently absurd. The dude can't even beat his rivals or make a conference championship game.

 

[ulukinatme]

For reference, this was originally up on Prevail & Ride/Shaggy Texas/Surly Horns after Michigan lost to Michigan State on the botched punt in 2015.

And always good for a rewatch:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Dqv48MwEbaQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ickythump1225]

It was a 'mirage' in that he wasn't the primary driver of getting Stanford so high above its traditional ceiling... Andrew Luck was. Had Luck not chosen Stanford, Harbaugh's pro-style system would have had them as a perennial 8-4 team. And I call it a 'mirage' because the job made him look like an elite coach, when hindsight tells us that it was a combination of several things, none of which point to Harbaugh being in the 'elite' tier of coaching, even though that's how he gets paid.

And I meant "anyone" can install a system that intends to shorten games and use the resources at their disposal. Harbaugh did a good job of building his roster at Stanford to play man-ball, which meant he used a limited recruiting pool to recruit big strong dudes and then had them take steroids. It was a big transformation for Stanford, but not something only Harbaugh could have accomplished.



I'm not saying he's a bad coach, for the record.

Just that he's wildly, WILDLY overpaid for what he's accomplished as a coach. He can thank Andrew Luck for his salary, basically.

Okay for one you say "had them take steroids" as if that's a given and from what I can tell there's zero proof of that and not even that much speculation it was happening. Two, again if anyone could do it how come no one thought to do it for like 70 years at Stanford? Everyone's pinning it all on Andrew Luck and he played a part but Stanford was so abysmal they didn't even make a bowl game with John Elway who IIRC turned out to be decent.

 

[ickythump1225]

ANDREW. LUCK.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Okay did Luck play all of the other positions, do all of the recruiting, develop the game plans, etc? I mean come on.

 

[ickythump1225]

Again, some of you make out Harbaugh to be Lane Kiffin as if he's some hapless coach who has fallen upwards in all of his jobs and he has nothing to do with the turn arounds his teams have taken pretty much immediately upon his arrival to the scene. USD, Stanford, San Fran, and yes even Michigan. All were pretty much garbage when he took over, and pretty rapidly have had some nice success.

Again the problem is that Michigan hired him thinking he was Bill Belichick and Nick Saban combined when he's not. 3/4 10 win seasons is pretty good and better than anything Michigan has had in a while, but it doesn't match the limitless expectations of their delusional fanbase.

 

[T Town Tommy]

Harbaugh can get his team to Rome but can't get them to Indy. For the money he is being paid, that shouldn't cut it. I understand the delusion that is the Michigan fan base, but not being able to beat your rival, win your conference, or have success against top 10 teams should not be acceptable. At least not for the money he's paid and the mouth he brings to the sport. Stop talking and start winning... against the top tier teams.

 

[IrishLax]

Okay did Luck play all of the other positions, do all of the recruiting, develop the game plans, etc? I mean come on.

He did throw for a fuckton of yards and TD, and ran for damn near 500 yards on the ground too...

Yeah, having a Heisman level QB running a power offense in the softest era of the PAC12 is a trump card. Basically 100% of Harbaugh's bonafides are:
1. Luck's second season at Stanford.
2. His first three seasons with the 49ers.

He has 4 seasons of good-to-great results put up against utter mediocrity in every other season. None of his resume outside of that 4 year block suggests he is anything other than a decent coach. So why was he given a "lifetime" Saban-level contract to finish 3rd in his division, lose to his rivals, win zero conference championships, and win zero NY6 bowl games?

7th best coach in the Big Ten. It's really that simple. Put hyperbole aside, he is probably 7th on paper and clearly not higher than 5th.

 

[IrishLion]

He did throw for a fuckton of yards and TD, and ran for damn near 500 yards on the ground too...

Yeah, having a Heisman level QB running a power offense in the softest era of the PAC12 is a trump card. Basically 100% of Harbaugh's bonafides are:
1. Luck's second season at Stanford.
2. His first three seasons with the 49ers.

He has 4 seasons of good-to-great results put up against utter mediocrity in every other season. None of his resume outside of that 4 year block suggests he is anything other than a decent coach. So why was he given a "lifetime" Saban-level contract to finish 3rd in his division, lose to his rivals, win zero conference championships, and win zero NY6 bowl games?

7th best coach in the Big Ten. It's really that simple. Put hyperbole aside, he is probably 7th on paper and clearly not higher than 5th.

It's not just about the money, either.

It's the constant and undeserved hype and accolades.

The past three years, ND has been a preseason afterthought compared to scUM, despite being a better team each year.

Hell, this season was the most "all-in" that the media have been on scUM. It's like they think hiring an OC that's never called plays is going to solve all of the issues, and mask scUM's glaring personnel losses.

ND proved that they're a NY6-level team last year. They went 12-0, beat scUM, and made the playoff.

And yet, ND is the team that needs to "prove it," while scUM and Harbaugh are given the benefit of the doubt each year, despite the fact that he can't even win his own division. He can't even win HALF of his conference.

 

[IrishLax]

Okay for one you say "had them take steroids" as if that's a given and from what I can tell there's zero proof of that and not even that much speculation it was happening. Two, again if anyone could do it how come no one thought to do it for like 70 years at Stanford? Everyone's pinning it all on Andrew Luck and he played a part but Stanford was so abysmal they didn't even make a bowl game with John Elway who IIRC turned out to be decent.

It's widely known. Beyond the lawsuits about steroids -- that the football team refused to cooperate with -- that coincided with Harbaugh's arrival on campus, there's simply been a lot of people who talked about it behind the scenes. That's how they got 2* players to turn into monsters and then back into pumpkins once they got to the NFL and started getting tested. Those that didn't hop off the juice got caught in the NFL.

And all of that pales in comparison to the fact that people around have loose lips and talk. I've already mentioned on here how I first heard about it, and you can go on basically any PAC12 website and read about the "rumors" from other randos.

 

[Greenore]

Did anyone see the "rant" Instagram by Sean Patterson (Shea's brother)?

I'm not smart enough to link or embed but I have to think this weeks has got to be very uncomfortable for both Shea and Harbaugh.

Reps for a link.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[IrishLax]

Did anyone see the "rant" Instagram by Sean Patterson (Shea's brother)?

I'm not smart enough to link or embed but I have to think this weeks has got to be very uncomfortable for both Shea and Harbaugh.

Reps for a link.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

https://bustedcoverage.com/2019/09/23/shea-patterson-brother-instagram-rant-michigan-jim-harbaugh/

 

[ACamp1900]

https://bustedcoverage.com/2019/09/23/shea-patterson-brother-instagram-rant-michigan-jim-harbaugh/

[/QUOTE]


Who uses ellipses like that????

 

[BeauBenken]

Did anyone see the "rant" Instagram by Sean Patterson (Shea's brother)?

I'm not smart enough to link or embed but I have to think this weeks has got to be very uncomfortable for both Shea and Harbaugh.

Reps for a link.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

I don't usually go to Fox for news but...

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/michigan-quarterbacks-brother-roasts-jim-harbaugh-after-crushing-defeat-to-wisconsin

 

[Greenore]

I don't usually go to Fox for news but...

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/michigan-quarterbacks-brother-roasts-jim-harbaugh-after-crushing-defeat-to-wisconsin

LOL... I think I read it on Fox first!!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[Greenore]

Does this help or hurt Shea?

Does this help or hurt Harbaugh?

Does anybody really know what time it is... does anybody really care?

What a dumpster fire!!!

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[IrishLax]

Btw for discussion purposes here are the coaches in the Big Ten that are *clearly* better than Harbaugh:

-Dantonio. Inarguable, has accomplished much more than Harbaugh despite massive disadvantages.
-Chryst. Duh.
-Franklin. Is basically Harbaugh but with a conference championship and a NY6 bowl win.
-Ferentz. With less resources he has actually managed to win multiple conference championships, and win a NY6 game. Put together an undefeated regular season in 2015.

So he is *at best* 5th.

And then he is arguably worse than the following:
-Fitzgerald. Does more with less, has made a conference championship game.
-Day. Too early to tell.
-Brohm. We'll see.
-Frost. Did more than Harbaugh has accomplished while at UCF, but has not been successful yet at Nebraska so hard to put him on the list right now based on the past season and a half.

So if you were drafting Big Ten coaches, he would go somewhere between 5th and 9th. And the dude gets paid Saban money with a "lifetime contract" and constant puff pieces. It's just such a joke.

 

[Circa]

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through...all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

 

[ulukinatme]

Btw for discussion purposes here are the coaches in the Big Ten that are *clearly* better than Harbaugh:

-Dantonio. Inarguable, has accomplished much more than Harbaugh despite massive disadvantages.
-Chryst. Duh.
-Franklin. Is basically Harbaugh but with a conference championship and a NY6 bowl win.
-Ferentz. With less resources he has actually managed to win multiple conference championships, and win a NY6 game. Put together an undefeated regular season in 2015.

So he is *at best* 5th.

And then he is arguably worse than the following:
-Fitzgerald. Does more with less, has made a conference championship game.
-Day. Too early to tell.
-Brohm. We'll see.
-Frost. Did more than Harbaugh has accomplished while at UCF, but has not been successful yet at Nebraska so hard to put him on the list right now based on the past season and a half.

So if you were drafting Big Ten coaches, he would go somewhere between 5th and 9th. And the dude gets paid Saban money with a "lifetime contract" and constant puff pieces. It's just such a joke.

I'd say Fitzgerald is certainly better than Harbaugh. I mean, Fitzgerald has beaten us and Harbro hasn't. By that same token, Brohm has beaten Ohio State and Harbaugh has not in several attempts.

 

[DONTH8]

The best part about Harbaugh is the fact that he is the embodimetn of the "Michigan Man".

He acts big and tough. but when the time comes he shrivels and falls.

he promises execution, discipline, and organization on offense, they are none of those things right now.

he's going to bring the program to greatness, following in the footsteps of Bo. Not even close.

See that is Michigan in a nutshell imo. Their trophies and glory come from the pre 1930's I feel like. Yet they sell themselves as something more. They are a regional program thinking they are a national brand.

It's why "Michigan Man" to me, is a joke. And I'm so glad that harbaugh is the way he is, because they touted him as a Michigan man, and when he fails, the idea of Michigan fails.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through...all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself.

For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear. The traitor is the plague.” - Marcus Tullius Cicero

With all due respect....

What the *uck are you talking about?

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

The best part about Harbaugh is the fact that he is the embodimetn of the "Michigan Man".

He acts big and tough. but when the time comes he shrivels and falls.

he promises execution, discipline, and organization on offense, they are none of those things right now.

he's going to bring the program to greatness, following in the footsteps of Bo. Not even close.

See that is Michigan in a nutshell imo. Their trophies and glory come from the pre 1930's I feel like. Yet they sell themselves as something more. They are a regional program thinking they are a national brand.

It's why "Michigan Man" to me, is a joke. And I'm so glad that harbaugh is the way he is, because they touted him as a Michigan man, and when he fails, the idea of Michigan fails.

Bo was a great coach but he didn't win much of anything. He had an abysmal record in the Rose Bowl. He was one of the greatest regular season coaches in scUM history. Woopdie-do.

That to me epitomizes Michigan fans. They idolize a coach who didn't ACTUALLY win anything. To me that's like us idolizing BK, which no one does to my knowledge. We appreciate his efforts given the state of the program when he took over, and he's sustained success the past 4 years with one (monster) outlier.