How many more chances does Golson get?

[TheTurningPoint]

1. Golson has a turnover problem, but he is also the reason they have won games as well.

2. I agree with Wooly that he has put himself and the team in bad situations and had to win the game bc of his TOs. But at the sametime, not many QBs would come back like he has. He is a strong kid mentally and capable of handling mistakes/criticism/etc.

3. Golson is completing 60% of his passes, thrown for over 3000 yards, 27 TDS, 12 INTs in 10 games.

Brady Quinns 2nd year he completed 54% of his passes, threw for 2586 yards, 17 TDs and 10 INts.

Jimmy Clausens 2nd year he completed 60% of his passes, threw for 3172 yards, 25 TDs, 17 INTS.

Jameis Winston 2nd year (this year) is completing 65% of his passes, 2844 yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTS.

I mean Golson isnt having a bad season for a second year QB in all reality. I think fans (including) myself lose fact that it is his second year of playing and that mistakes are going to happen. The fumbles are the difference between him and the 3 QBs noted, but Golson is also making plays at a rate those QBs didnt.

4. I remember last year when people were fed up with Tommy Rees and calling for Andrew Hendrix. Then they got their wish in the 2nd half against USC and you saw why Rees was playing. BK has shown in his past stops and at ND that he isnt afraid to bench a player at any position and espscially at the QB position. The fact that if Golson is playing "so bad" and Zaire hasnt stepped in for at least a series of relief is very telling. Is that on BK for not having developed Zaire accuracy in the last 2 years? Im not sure.

I do kind of get annoyed with those claiming that Golson is BKs baby and etc. BK is coaching his players bc he knows his players. He knows when to yell and when to have a conversation with him. Thats the sign of a good coach. Golson isnt the same type of player that Joe Schmidt is and that doesnt make Golson soft. Kelly can yell at Joe Schmidt and Schmidt reacts differently. Its just different personalities.

Im sure that Wooly and NDinLA are guys that can take someone yelling and cussing them out and be fine 2mins later. Beau/GB are going to sulk about it.

5. Get behind the kid. Hes the starting QB at the university we love and he will feel the support over social media/etc.

 

[PANDFAN]

1. Golson has a turnover problem, but he is also the reason they have won games as well.

2. I agree with Wooly that he has put himself and the team in bad situations and had to win the game bc of his TOs. But at the sametime, not many QBs would come back like he has. He is a strong kid mentally and capable of handling mistakes/criticism/etc.

3. Golson is completing 60% of his passes, thrown for over 3000 yards, 27 TDS, 12 INTs in 10 games.

Brady Quinns 2nd year he completed 54% of his passes, threw for 2586 yards, 17 TDs and 10 INts.

Jimmy Clausens 2nd year he completed 60% of his passes, threw for 3172 yards, 25 TDs, 17 INTS.

Jameis Winston 2nd year (this year) is completing 65% of his passes, 2844 yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTS.

I mean Golson isnt having a bad season for a second year QB in all reality. I think fans (including) myself lose fact that it is his second year of playing and that mistakes are going to happen. The fumbles are the difference between him and the 3 QBs noted, but Golson is also making plays at a rate those QBs didnt.

4. I remember last year when people were fed up with Tommy Rees and calling for Andrew Hendrix. Then they got their wish in the 2nd half against USC and you saw why Rees was playing. BK has shown in his past stops and at ND that he isnt afraid to bench a player at any position and espscially at the QB position. The fact that if Golson is playing "so bad" and Zaire hasnt stepped in for at least a series of relief is very telling. Is that on BK for not having developed Zaire accuracy in the last 2 years? Im not sure.

I do kind of get annoyed with those claiming that Golson is BKs baby and etc. BK is coaching his players bc he knows his players. He knows when to yell and when to have a conversation with him. Thats the sign of a good coach. Golson isnt the same type of player that Joe Schmidt is and that doesnt make Golson soft. Kelly can yell at Joe Schmidt and Schmidt reacts differently. Its just different personalities.

Im sure that Wooly and NDinLA are guys that can take someone yelling and cussing them out and be fine 2mins later. Beau/GB are going to sulk about it.

5. Get behind the kid. Hes the starting QB at the university we love and he will feel the support over social media/etc.

wow, interesting....plus...he has a defense ...

 

[pkt77242]

1. Golson has a turnover problem, but he is also the reason they have won games as well.

2. I agree with Wooly that he has put himself and the team in bad situations and had to win the game bc of his TOs. But at the sametime, not many QBs would come back like he has. He is a strong kid mentally and capable of handling mistakes/criticism/etc.

3. Golson is completing 60% of his passes, thrown for over 3000 yards, 27 TDS, 12 INTs in 10 games.

Brady Quinns 2nd year he completed 54% of his passes, threw for 2586 yards, 17 TDs and 10 INts.

Jimmy Clausens 2nd year he completed 60% of his passes, threw for 3172 yards, 25 TDs, 17 INTS.

Jameis Winston 2nd year (this year) is completing 65% of his passes, 2844 yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTS.

I mean Golson isnt having a bad season for a second year QB in all reality. I think fans (including) myself lose fact that it is his second year of playing and that mistakes are going to happen. The fumbles are the difference between him and the 3 QBs noted, but Golson is also making plays at a rate those QBs didnt.

4. I remember last year when people were fed up with Tommy Rees and calling for Andrew Hendrix. Then they got their wish in the 2nd half against USC and you saw why Rees was playing. BK has shown in his past stops and at ND that he isnt afraid to bench a player at any position and espscially at the QB position. The fact that if Golson is playing "so bad" and Zaire hasnt stepped in for at least a series of relief is very telling. Is that on BK for not having developed Zaire accuracy in the last 2 years? Im not sure.

I do kind of get annoyed with those claiming that Golson is BKs baby and etc. BK is coaching his players bc he knows his players. He knows when to yell and when to have a conversation with him. Thats the sign of a good coach. Golson isnt the same type of player that Joe Schmidt is and that doesnt make Golson soft. Kelly can yell at Joe Schmidt and Schmidt reacts differently. Its just different personalities.

Im sure that Wooly and NDinLA are guys that can take someone yelling and cussing them out and be fine 2mins later. Beau/GB are going to sulk about it.

5. Get behind the kid. Hes the starting QB at the university we love and he will feel the support over social media/etc.

The thing is not that Golson just throws INTs but his fumbles as well. He has something like 21 turnovers this year. That is a crazy amount. Also Winston is having a crappy year this year but tore it up last year. Clausen also had no where near the talent around him that Golson does so that is a rough comparison and Quinn and Clausen were true sophomores and not RS Juniors (this matters because the coach has had more time to work on their reading of defense, understanding the offense, etc).

I do agree that you have to handle different players in different ways and I have no problem with how he has treated Golson as far as yelling/not yelling.

 

[Booslum31]

How many more chances does Golson get?

2014 Regualar season.......2
2014 Bowl Game..............1
2015 Regular season........12
2015 Playoffs...................2

Total chances..................17 (barring injuries)

I hope he is our QB for all of these games.

 

[MNIrishman]

How much is Alabama's team being paid? Any chance we could beat that and bring in some ringers?

 

[TheTurningPoint]

The thing is not that Golson just throws INTs but his fumbles as well. He has something like 21 turnovers this year. That is a crazy amount. Also Winston is having a crappy year this year but tore it up last year. Clausen also had no where near the talent around him that Golson does so that is a rough comparison and Quinn and Clausen were true sophomores and not RS Juniors (this matters because the coach has had more time to work on their reading of defense, understanding the offense, etc).

I do agree that you have to handle different players in different ways and I have no problem with how he has treated Golson as far as yelling/not yelling.

Thats exactly what I said when I said that the difference between them is the fumbles...

Clausens sophmore year he had Kyle Rudolph, Michael Floyd and Golden Tate. I am pretty sure that is better talent than a Will Fuller, Chris Brown and Ben Koyack, but thats just me.

Golson missed an entire football season. That puts him behind the curveball more than you would think. Sure he worked with Whitfield but thats not live experience or in meetings to learn the finer points of the offense and what to look for. You can only stimulate so many things in 1-on-1 coaching or thrown together 7on7 in cali without your teammates and coaches.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Quinn and Clausen were true sophomores and not RS Juniors (this matters because the coach has had more time to work on their reading of defense, understanding the offense, etc).

Golson's suspension likely wiped out most of the advantage over Quinn and Clausen he might have had there. He didn't have to play as a true frosh, but he wasn't in the two-deep either, so it's unclear how many quality reps he was getting in practice. And in his first year as a starter, Kelly kept him on a very short leash and pulled him in favor of the #2 frequently, which wasn't the case with Quinn and Clausen.

I think the 2nd-year QB comparison is a fair one.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Two years from now this thread is titled "How many chances does Zairre get" and everyone is screaming for Kizer or Wimbush. Comes with the territory.

Isn't there a Holtz quote saying, "The most popular quarterback at Notre Dame is the backup."

Golson's turnovers are very unfortunate. But so are special teams and the defense. The stars are clearly maligned. Hopefully they can save some face this year and come into next year a better, more experienced football team.

 

[IRISH in MT]

How many more chances does Golson get?

2014 Regualar season.......2
2014 Bowl Game..............1
2015 Regular season........12
2015 Playoffs...................2

Total chances..................17 (barring injuries)

I hope he is our QB for all of these games.

Just like this year, IF he keeps playing the way he has, the playoffs won't be realistic!

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Golson's turnovers are very unfortunate. But so are special teams and the defense.

Off-topic, but OFD's Patrick Rigney just published an article on the "State of the Special Teams." Apparently only the FG unit is struggling. The rest of our units range from average to elite.

 

[TDHeysus]

Jimmy Clausens 2nd year he completed 60% of his passes, threw for 3172 yards, 25 TDs, 17 INTS.

and by all acocunts he had a BAD year. At the end of the Syracuse game I was done with the dude. I told a USC friend at the time, "I just don't get it, this dude(clausen) was supposed to be the man; its been 2 years, and he still sucks, I just don't get it."

Now Clausen then had an epic turn-around, starting with the Sun Bowl against Miami; then the next summer him making the comment that "ND was not going to lose because of him."; Then coming out his junior year with a ridiculous TD:INT ratio of something close to 27:4, and 2 of those picks were CLEARLY not his fault.

Can Golson make that same turn-around? more accurately, can ND wait around for Golson to make that turn-around?

fair or not, I'm skeptical that he can (to be fair, I didn't think Clausen was going to turn it around either)


for me, when I think of Golson I cant get the turnovers out of my head, and the ASU game still makes me upset when I think about it.

 

[PANDFAN]

and by all acocunts he had a BAD year. At the end of the Syracuse game I was done with the dude. I told a USC friend at the time, "I just don't get it, this dude(clausen) was supposed to be the man; its been 2 years, and he still sucks, I just don't get it."

Now Clausen then had an epic turn-around, starting with the Sun Bowl against Miami; then the next summer him making the comment that "ND was not going to lose because of him."; Then coming out his junior year with a ridiculous TD:INT ratio of something close to 27:4, and 2 of those picks were CLEARLY not his fault.

Can Golson make that same turn-around? more accurately, can ND wait around for Golson to make that turn-around?

fair or not, I'm skeptical that he can (to be fair, I didn't think Clausen was going to turn it around either)


for me, when I think of Golson I cant get the turnovers out of my head, and the ASU game still makes me upset when I think about it.

wasn't this rees???

 

[MNIrishman]

wasn't this rees???

It was Rees. Bring him back. Bench the entire team. Fire Kelly. Burn down the stadium. BUILD A JUMBOTRON.

 

[TDHeysus]

wasn't this rees???

I might have the bowl game mixed up, but I was talking about the bowl game that was on dec 23rd/24th, about a month after losing to Syracuse at home (the game that Manti visited)

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I might have the bowl game mixed up, but I was talking about the bowl game that was on dec 23rd, about a month after losing to Syracuse at home (the game that Manti visited)

You're thinking about the bowl game against Hawaii where Jimmy broke out.

 

[MNIrishman]

I might have the bowl game mixed up, but I was talking about the bowl game that was on dec 23rd/24th, about a month after losing to Syracuse at home (the game that Manti visited)

Hawaii bowl

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Off-topic, but OFD's Patrick Rigney just published an article on the "State of the Special Teams." Apparently only the FG unit is struggling. The rest of our units range from average to elite.

Right. I shouldn't have generalized it.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Off-topic, but OFD's Patrick Rigney just published an article on the "State of the Special Teams." Apparently only the FG unit is struggling. The rest of our units range from average to elite.

Our punt return unit is definitely below par too. Lots of bobbles (though Bryant's been better about that) and a completely ineffective blocking scheme.

 

[gkIrish]

Our punt return unit is definitely below par too. Lots of bobbles (though Bryant's been better about that) and a completely ineffective blocking scheme.

We have a blocking scheme????

 

[GoldenDome]

Is he getting better or has he plateaued or regressing?

I do see small improvements week by week but there comes a time when he needs to improve at a faster pace. I mean he still does not know how to slide at this point in his college career.

 

[pkt77242]

Thats exactly what I said when I said that the difference between them is the fumbles...

Clausens sophmore year he had Kyle Rudolph, Michael Floyd and Golden Tate. I am pretty sure that is better talent than a Will Fuller, Chris Brown and Ben Koyack, but thats just me.

Golson missed an entire football season. That puts him behind the curveball more than you would think. Sure he worked with Whitfield but thats not live experience or in meetings to learn the finer points of the offense and what to look for. You can only stimulate so many things in 1-on-1 coaching or thrown together 7on7 in cali without your teammates and coaches.

Sorry TP Michael Floyd and Rudolph were freshmen and Clausen's o-line was not good at all.

He can't simulate a game but he can watch a ton more film then normal though.

 

[pkt77242]

Golson's suspension likely wiped out most of the advantage over Quinn and Clausen he might have had there. He didn't have to play as a true frosh, but he wasn't in the two-deep either, so it's unclear how many quality reps he was getting in practice. And in his first year as a starter, Kelly kept him on a very short leash and pulled him in favor of the #2 frequently, which wasn't the case with Quinn and Clausen.

I think the 2nd-year QB comparison is a fair one.

I agree that game experience is the same, but he has spent significantly more time in the film room and should be much more adapt at understanding blitzes, hot routes, and protections at this point, things that he still seems to struggle with mightily.

 

[wizards8507]

Golson's suspension likely wiped out most of the advantage over Quinn and Clausen he might have had there. He didn't have to play as a true frosh, but he wasn't in the two-deep either, so it's unclear how many quality reps he was getting in practice. And in his first year as a starter, Kelly kept him on a very short leash and pulled him in favor of the #2 frequently, which wasn't the case with Quinn and Clausen.

Neither Quinn nor Clausen had a "year off" to work with George Whitfield. From a strictly football perspective, Golson's suspension should have put him far ahead of where those guys were in their second season of competition.

 

[pkt77242]

Also I haven't called for Golson to be benched though if he keeps turning it over at this rate I might jump on that bandwagon.

 

[gkIrish]

Neither Quinn nor Clausen had a "year off" to work with George Whitfield. From a strictly football perspective, Golson's suspension should have put him far ahead of where those guys were in their second season of competition.

Are you saying a year (probably more like a couple months) with George Whitfield is more valuable than a year practicing with your teammates and coaches in the system you will be QBing?

 

[pkt77242]

Are you saying a year (probably more like a couple months) with George Whitfield is more valuable than a year practicing with your teammates and coaches in the system you will be QBing?

I think that he is saying that Golson's year off with GW is better then the non-existent year for Clausen or Quinn since they were true sophmores in their second season.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I agree that game experience is the same, but he has spent significantly more time in the film room and should be much more adapt at understanding blitzes, hot routes, and protections at this point, things that he still seems to struggle with mightily.

AFAIK, none of our members has played QB at an FBS school before, so we really don't know how valuable that extra time in the film room is without the live snaps to prove it. If your theory is correct, Hendrix should have been a QB phD before he finally saw the field for us, but he wasn't.

Neither Quinn nor Clausen had a "year off" to work with George Whitfield. From a strictly football perspective, Golson's suspension should have put him far ahead of where those guys were in their second season of competition.

Same answer as above. Is a semester off school and private QB tutoring an advantage, or was his time with Whitfield just an offset to the large disadvantage of losing an entire season as the starting QB?

 

[wizards8507]

Same answer as above. Is a semester off school and private QB tutoring an advantage, or was his time with Whitfield just an offset to the large disadvantage of losing an entire season as the starting QB?

You said he should be compared to players in their second year of competition. One year of experience plus private QB tutoring is better than one year of experience by itself.

Yes, Junior Golson would probably be better if he had played two full seasons. I'm not saying compare Junior Golson to Junior Clausen/Quinn, but he should be further along than Sophomore Clausen/Quinn. In short, some kind of sophomore-and-a-half.

 

[pkt77242]

You said he should be compared to players in their second year of competition. One year of experience plus private QB tutoring is better than one year of experience by itself.

Yes, Junior Golson would probably be better if he had played two full seasons. I'm not saying compare Junior Golson to Junior Clausen/Quinn, but he should be further along than Sophomore Clausen/Quinn. In short, some kind of sophomore-and-a-half.

I would actually go a little farther and say that he is the equivalent of a true senior in their second year of starting.

EE Spring (1)
FR Fall (2)
FR Spring (3)
RS FR Fall (4)
RS FR Spring (5)
RS SO Fall (-) Missed
RS SO Spring (6)
RS JR Fall (7)

This is his 7th semester on the team which is the same as a true senior plus he had one semester off with a "passing guru". I agree that on game experience he isn't ahead of Clausen or Quinn but on time in the program, with the same offense (no changes in the offense is important) he should be farther ahead of them.

 

[wizards8507]

This is his 7th semester on the team which is the same as a true senior plus he had one semester off with a "passing guru". I agree that on game experience he isn't ahead of Clausen or Quinn but on time in the program, with the same offense (no changes in the offense is important) he should be farther ahead of them.

Which makes comments like "he just doesn't get the read option" all the more baffling.